Re: T3 and diabetes

[Guest guest]

I always thought if i was on too much T3 that i would show signs of being hyper,

dioreha, faster pulse ect ect the way im feeling i think is possibly because of

yeast and maybe elevated blood sugar.

The last time i lowerd my T3 i felt depressed that afternoon so i dont think i

needed less.

I set my alarm for 4am last nite and tried a 12.5 T3, mainly just to check that

i could get back to sleep without problems. So tonight im going to try around

5am and 25mg, will post back with the results.

Steve

>

> Sounds like you are taking too much T3 if you are getting these symptoms or

> not spacing out the doses sufficiently throughout the day and you are

> getting 'peaks' of T3.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi , just a couple more qustions regarding the early morning T3 dose.

Did you only do this when you were no longer on HC, if so do you any idea how

you had enough HC to let the T3 enter the cells at the start ?

Also you say you moved your first dose forward, now you are on 4am are you still

taking your 8am dose ?

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

It's not always as simple as that.

Too much T3 can drive other hormones, neurotransmitters etc. If is not just the

effect on basic organs like the heart and gut that you have to think about.

Depression can arise if the T3 is too high as well as too low.

You can get symptoms of being low on T3 if you have driven up other hormones so

high that they begin to block the effect of T3. Cortisol for instance can be

driven up and for a week or two (until the body adjusts) it can appear as if you

have too little T3.

It can get really complex. This is yet another reason that I believe T3 should

only be used after all the other therapies have failed. It is far more complex

to use than any other thyroid treatment.

>

[Guest guest]

You have to do it when no on HC etc - it makes no sense to do it if you are

still taking adrenal hormones and it could be dangerous. I think I may have said

this earlier somewhere. In fact the point is to find out if you can achieve an

adrenal hormone free state or at the very least maximise your own adrenal output

and verify this with a 24 hour urinary cortisol test prior to even considering

taking some adrenal support.

I take my first T3 around 4:30 am. My second is at 2:00 pm and my third (very

small indeed) is around 6:00 pm - 3 doses per day. My goal has always to get the

right balance of all the naturally produced hormones so that I can take the

minimum amount of T3 and the fewest number of divided doses. In this way I

minimise the risks associated with taking too much T3.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi again , without trying to cause any disagreements, what is your view

point of Val's protocol from the adrenal/rt3 group. That you support

adrenals/thyroid and once your thyroid is optimal dose and your symptoms have

subsided, you can then start to wean off HC at 2.5mg a week.

I got a little bit mixed up and miss read as i did not realise you were

suggesting to be off HC fully before trying the morning dose. But i must say i

have felt pretty damn good today.

So taking Val's view point and your method of taking T3 just when the adrenals

need it, could it not speed up ones recovery and make them able to wean off HC

sooner than expected?

Steve

>

> You have to do it when no on HC etc - it makes no sense to do it if you are

still taking adrenal hormones and it could be dangerous. I think I may have said

this earlier somewhere.

[Guest guest]

Val's protocol doesn't have the step that I've described to you in it.

Using the first T3 dose in the main cortisol production window actually drives

the adrenals very effectively (if they aren't destroyed by a tumour or

something). My protocol won't work and identify an appropriate first dose if

adrenal support is also present.

When the book is out a lot of this will be clearer but I use the 24 hour urinary

cortisol test as well as symptoms and other signs to find a) a feel good point

for the size and timing of the first dose and a decent cortisol level as

determined not just by 'a' but by an actual 24 hour urinary cortisol. There is

enough evidence to suggest that saliva tests for cortisol are not accurate for

T3 users.

So, I'm not attempting to slag Val's protocol off. It is quite different and

mine won't work if you are on adrenal support. Mine is aimed at optimising

health, T3 dosage and arriving at the minimum amount of T3 and ideally no

adrenal support (or at least the minimum).

The rT3 (and no one else for that matter - doctors included) have realised that

T3 can be used in the way I use it. It is novel.

Only patients and doctors using both protocols can really judge the two methods.

I obviously have my own opinion but I'm not sharing that here.

Good luck.

Steve - I don't really think I can tell you much more about this. The book will

when its out but I'm waiting for the foreword to be written by someone at the

moment. Then it will be about 3 months before its available.

>

> Hi again , without trying to cause any disagreements, what is your view

point of Val's protocol from the adrenal/rt3 group. That you support

adrenals/thyroid and once

[Guest guest]

Steve to emphasise this these are the goals for my process that come straight

out of the text:

THE GOALS OF T3 DOSAGE MANAGEMENT

I developed the following three goals for the T3 dosage management process:

To find a safe, effective and stable T3 dosage that was the lowest possible

dosage of T3, which eradicated symptoms whilst avoiding any tissue

over-stimulation.

To find a T3 dosage that limits, or removes, the need for any adrenal medication

or support.

The T3 dosage management process needed to be systematic and understandable.

Good luck.

>

> Hi again , without trying to cause any disagreements, what is your view

point of

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

I will say a few words about the rT3 group process. The name is misleading

because rT3 is only one of many problems. A lot of people have impaired cellular

response to thyroid hormone and their rT3 is not an issue. I know - I'm one of

these.

The name isn't a big deal but the intense emphasis and communication that rT3 is

the single biggest issue is misleading. I lay out many other causes in the book.

I am sure the rT3 group has helped many people to recover their health.

However, I know of several people who have used the process you mention and have

been on really high T3 and sometimes T3/T4 dosages. High dosages may be

sometimes appropriate especially when you suspect a really serious case of

resistance. However, this is unusual and care must be take to avoid creating a

situation where a serious cardiovascular problem could develop.

I know of one person (on this very site) who used the rT3 process and had

guidance from them and was on high combination of T3 and T4 and had blood

pressure issues which I told him would be likely to lead to serious

cardiovascular problems in he future IF the dosage was wrong - which I suspected

it was. The person is on a dramatically lower dosage now and feels well (more

healthy than on the high dosage).

T3 is not easy to use and any process needs to have safety as its paramount

goal.

That's all I'm going to say about it. You'll have to make your own mind up.

>

> Hi

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I'm assuming the rT3 group have advised you to use a home blood pressure meter

as part of the process.

On this type of dosage you'd be foolhardy not to be tracking BP - especially

with the combination of adrenal hormones as well.

I'm assuming you are because that is just a basic safety measure.

Sorry if you've already got this covered but I couldn't not say it given that it

is SOOO important. You often can't tell if your BP is elevated.

>

> Hi again , without trying to cause any disagreements, what is your view

point of Val's protocol from the adrenal/rt3 group. That you support

adrenals/thyroid and once your thyroid is optimal dose and your symptoms have

subsided, you can then start to wean off HC at 2.5mg a week.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all the replies its appreicated, ive still got a lot of learning

to do, and the affect T3 has had on my life in a postiive way so far has been

huge!

I look forward to reading your book.

Steve

> Good luck.

>

> Steve - I don't really think I can tell you much more about this. The book

will when its out but I'm waiting for the foreword to be written by someone at

the moment. Then it will be about 3 months before its available.

[Guest guest]

Steve,

One final (honest) point on all of this.

If the process that is being used to titrate the T3 isn't focusing on getting

the person OFF adrenal hormone then there is every chance that the person will

remain on some. If having raised the T3 dose and the person is still requiring

adrenal hormones then it is a flawed argument to say " well they must need them

then " . The human body is a lot more complex that that.

My T3 dosage when my cortisol was low enough to cause me to pass out each day

was the same overall size as it was when my cortisol was normalised. The only

difference was the subtlety of T3 titration. Almost no one understands this and

it was this and many other hard learned lessons that actually caused me to write

the book in the first place. My own doctor insisted that I write it.

Having symptoms that appear fine does not mean that the T3 is titrated properly.

The need for adrenal support is largely avoidable in my opinion. I've worked

with dozens of people now at a distance whilst they were working with their own

doctors. I'm yet to find anyone who has needed to be on adrenal hormones long

term. Proper T3 titration can alleviate the need in many cases. But without

doing the titration then the person will remain on these drugs - raising the T3

might work but only if it is very high or the person's metabolism is such that

there adrenals can perform without any T3 during the night.

Having symptoms that appear fine also doesn't mean the the BP is OK or that many

other hormone levels (like cortisol) are OK. Laboratory tests are needed (not

saliva ones incidentally on T3). I've also compared the results of saliva

testing of cortisol when on T3 compared to 24 hour urinary cortisol. The two

tests are not consistent - with the 24 hour cortisol being more accurate. I

suspect it is something to do with the speed of cellular absorption of T3 and

perhaps its effect on serum cortisol - this will need research to fully explore.

Hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

Same for me on the final point, im going to say my plan and then with one last

question and then i wont take up anymore of your time (for now )

My question is that T3 uses up cortisol, so when you started to take T3 at night

how were you able to get the T3 into the cells to start the ball rolling, you

had enough cortisol in your body ?

My plan

To pick up my latest iron labs on the way home from work, to see were my

iron/ferritin is at (everything apart from my ferritin was ideal on the last

results, so i aim to raise my ferritin without putting my other iron labs over

range, so at the moment im taking just 27mg of iron a day but ofc did not take

any 5 days prior to the test.

Going to drop down and stay at 125mg of T3 (for now i may well drop down more or

even go a bit higher, i have a VERY fast metabolism but poor absorption at the

minute)

Try and get my blood glucose issue's under control, im already doing the " diet "

so will most probably get put on metformin

Then i will try and find my optimal dose of thyroid replacement, and then start

to reduce my HC.

I know this isnt exactly how you would go about things, but im just too scared

to stop HC.

Lastly i am tempted to take a T3 dose around 4-5 am, if i feel improvements in

my symptoms would it be oky to carry on, or is it really too dangerous ? Before

you came onto the forums taking a T3 in the night had crossed my mind, for 2

reasons one being that my metabolism is REALLY fast i wondered if i needed some

in the night, and secondly when i was taking ALA for chelating i remember

setting my alarm in the middle of the night to take my medicine to keep my

levels " steady "

Steve

>

> Steve,

>

> One final (honest) point on all of this.

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

It takes about 6 weeks for the adrenals to adjust. Everyone has some cortisol

unless they've had their adrenals taken out.

Providing T3 in the main cortisol production window will provide more T3 to the

adrenal cells than they had before. So, slowly the adrenal output increases.

Unfortunately, it isn't possible to work out the right time to take the T3 or

the right size when you're already on HC.

The process to discover the right time and size is to slowly move the first T3

dose back from 8:00 to 7:00 then 6:30 then 6:00 etc. until you get to 4:00am

My total and free cortisol would be over the top of the lab reference range with

a first T3 dose at 4:00 am but close to the bottom ay 8:00 am. I'm on;y on 50

mcg T3 but I'm fit as a fiddle because its properly titrated. I have energy to

burn.

ly just taking T3 at 4:00 am when you're already on HC etc is reckless and

makes no logical sense. It is a mixture of two incompatible dosage management

processes. I think it could be dangerous and I would always advise against it.

I hope you are using a BP meter regularly.

Good luck.

>

> Same for me on the final point, im going to say my plan and then with one last

question and then i wont take up anymore of your time (for now )

>