Re: T3 and diabetes

[Guest guest]

The only possible connection that I am aware of is if the T3 level is too high

or is taken too close to when the adrenals are working at their hardest (last

four hours of sleep). In these situations if the adrenals are producing too many

glucocorticoids (including cortisol) then the glucose level can rise.

Are you taking any adrenal hormones as well? If so then you might find the T3 is

correcting the adrenals without the need for any or as much cortisol.

Other than that I am not aware of any substantiated connection (other than the

fact that there needs to be enough glucose and insulin for thyroid hormone to

work).

Are you using a glucose meter - i.e. you have definite evidence that this is

what is happening?

How are you using the T3 and with what other medications?

>

> Hi, i was wondering if anybody knows about T3's connection to diabates/blood

sugar/insulin.

>

> I think the T3 is having an affect on my blood glucose, i did a google search

and founds bits of information but was wondering if anybody in the group knows

about it ?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi paul i did not think there was any connection (there may not be) between T3

and blood glucose levels but a few websites have a bit of information so thought

id look around.

" Both T3 and T4 function to increase the metabolic rate of several cells and

tissues. The brain, testes, lungs, and spleen are not affected by thyroid

hormones, however. T3 and T4 indirectly increase blood glucose levels as well as

the insulin-promoted uptake of glucose by fat cells "

http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/310/Hormones.html#ixzz1VOcSio00

I am taking HC and i know exactly what you mean about needing less hc, but

everytime i drop my HC i just end up with lower temps and feeling tired so a

sure tell sign im not ready to reduce my hc yet.

I do have a glucose meter and i dont have any evidence that this is happening

its just something i started to think about today as yesterday i increased my T3

and today my blood glucose symptoms are alot worse. possibly co-incedence?

Do you happen to know much about insulin resistance ?

Lastly this is how i am dosing at the moment, im always open to suggestions but

apart from this last week i would say i am feeling the best i have felt in

years, on the downside the diabates side of things seems to be getting worse as

the thyroid side of things get better, just my luck lol

8 am - 25T3 - 10HC - 0.1 Florinef

10 - 12.5 - 10

1 - 25 - 10

4 - 25 - 5

7 - 25 - 5

Bed - 25 - 2.5

Steve

>

>>

> Are you taking any adrenal hormones as well? If so then you might find the T3

is correcting the adrenals without the need for any or as much cortisol.

>

>

> Are you using a glucose meter - i.e. you have definite evidence that this is

what is happening?

>

> How are you using the T3 and with what other medications?

>

[Guest guest]

OK Steve here is one of my trade secrets.

Your adrenals are producing cortisol in the last four hours of sleep at a higher

rate than any other time of the day. Hence early morning cortisol (and

testosterone in men) is higher that at any other time of the day and it

gradually falls during the day, even though there are still pulsatile releases

of cortisol as the day goes on (the total cortisol drops like a rock during the

day).

So, your using T3. Your lowest ebb of T3 (based on the very natural way that you

and most people take it) is just when your adrenals are trying to work at their

hardest.

When I began using T3 I got 60% of the benefit almost immediately but there was

big chunk missing. It took me nearly three years and countless actual

experiments with actual laboratory tests to back this up to discover what very

few people realise. I am attempting to correct this now by publicising this on

the Internet and in the book I've written.

If you take you first T3 dose within what I call 'the main cortisol production

window' then there is a good chance that you won't even need any adrenal support

or at least you can cut it down. For most people who get up at 8 then this

window will be 4:00 am - 8:00 am in the morning. Start by setting your alarm

clock for say 5 or 6:00am, wake up take your first T3 and then go back to

sleep.

It takes about 6 weeks for the adrenals to adjust. This method actually gives

the cells of the adrenals the T3 they need to work. You may need to reduce your

adrenal hormones.

Over a period of weeks you can try moving the first dose half an hour earlier

until (if you need it) the T3 is taken at 4:00 am or so. It is a bit tedious but

it works like a dream. If told others about this with good success.

My adrenals were so bad that I was passing out each day but I felt ill on HC and

Prednisolone and florinef. I take my first T3 at 4:30 and my cortisol is at the

high end of normal and I have no adrenal issues with no need to use adrenal

meds.

Incidentally, if you are only T3 the adrenal saliva test appears not to work

very well - I've talked the the head R & D Honcho at one of the companies and

there is a good chance that T3 use may invalidate this. So, please use the 24

hour urinary cortisol test if you need to check actual cortisol levels once

you've finished adjusting things.

Or ... alternatively .... just carry on as you are doing.

Good luck,

[Guest guest]

That's also quite a bit of T3 (137.5).

Have you been working with the rT3 group in the USA?

Your body temp and other symptoms should be good on this level of T3. If not

then I'd suggest that your adrenals aren't working well. The adrenals produce

lots of glucocorticoids not just the ones you're supplementing. It is far better

to make the adrenals do their own work than take a hugely limited subset of

hormones that aren't delivered naturally.

Good luck,

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry - my point was that when the adrenals are putting out all the hormones

they are supposed to and your testosterone level rises (which it will) then you

may not need as much T3 either.

I think its unlikely you have insulin resistance. There are far more obvious

causes of issues here. I could be wrong though.

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve

so is the problem that you've taken more T3 and you feel more hypoglycemic?

why aren't you taking DHEA too?

have you had testostrone levels checked? Cortisol opposes testosterone, i

believe?

chris

[Guest guest]

I'd have thought it would be better to take less stuff and get the body working

properly rather than trying to replace everything.

I have a different view on a lot of this and like to keep things simple.

>

> Hi Steve

>

[Guest guest]

>> I'd have thought it would be better to take less stuff and get the body

working properly rather than trying to replace everything.

If possible, yes, I absolutely agree.

If not possible?

I for one don't have time - having wasted much time - to try things that *may*

work, as opposed to things that *will/do* work. Each to his own :-)

Chris

>

> I'd have thought it would be better to take less stuff and get the body

working properly rather than trying to replace everything.

> I have a different view on a lot of this and like to keep things simple.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the replies paul is appreciated

" When I began using T3 I got 60% of the benefit almost immediately but there was

big chunk missing. "

This is me, the effects of T3 when i first started were so good it was unreal i

honestly felt like a new person, but there is still 40% room for improvement.

I have been working with the RT3 group yes, and also Dr P. I was on 112mg of T3

with a FT3 of 12.0 (usual ranges up to 6 is it ?) which shows pooling either

iron or adrenals even tho im on 40mg of HC and my iron all come back top of the

ranges apart from ferritin of 50, which im working to get up but can only take

27mg of Iron a day as my other iron labs are so high. I just thought i would try

an increase over the last few weeks as i had not increased in over 2 months. So

im in no way set on 137.5 just testing the water.

I want to get off HC ASAP, but i cant yet my temp just wont go above 36.6 (low

ferritin, or something else ?)

Insulin resitance is something which i have only just started to look into as i

remeber reading thyroid resistnace and insulin resistance go hand in hand, and i

used to have quite a bad RT3.

Steve

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, propping the body up with various replacements doesn't

actually replace things though. The adrenal cortex makes between two and three

dozen different steroid hormones. You can't supplement these and you can't

deliver them as they are designed to be delivered.

If you can get the adrenals to work right then you get all of this.

Same goes for testosterone.

It may seem like the tortoise approach but in a lot of cases this tortoise

completes the race, feels good and gets on with his life, whilst the poor hare

doesn't even complete the race and feels like shit.

Good luck to all of you.

>

[Guest guest]

Oky i think you may of hit the nail on the head i know my adrenals are

slightly stressed when i wake up in the morning(can sometimes feel adrenaline)

and ive not had any T3 since 11pm at night, and i have such a fast metabolism im

going to give this a try.

Why is it that you say to start at 6am and work towards 4am i wonder ?

STeve

>

> OK Steve here is one of my trade secrets.

>

> Your adrenals are producing cortisol in the last four hours of sleep at a

higher rate than any other time of the day. Hence early

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

What's this about the brain not affected by thyroid hormones? See

http://www.drlowe.com/jcl/comentry/notransthyretin.htm

" Since the 1950s, some thyroid researchers believed there

was only one way thyroid hormone got from the blood into the brain: by binding

to a protein called " transthyretin " (trans’-th§-r‘’-tin).

Transthyretin is one of three proteins that bind and transport thyroid hormone.

The main protein is " thyroxine-binding globulin " and the other is

" albumin. "

Cell membranes have sites that strongly bind transthyretin. The

binding sites are probably transthyretin receptors that are instrumental in

delivering thyroid hormone into cells.[4]

The transthyretin that transports thyroid hormone in the blood

is manufactured by the liver. Transthyretin that transports thyroid hormone

from the blood into the brain is produced in a brain structure called the

" choroid plexus. " The choroid plexus is a complex outgrowth of blood

vessels. It’s situated just above the brain stem and below the

brain’s fluid containing cavities called " ventricles. " The

plexus produces and secretes the fluid, called " cerebrospinal fluid, "

that the brain and spinal cord float in.

Thyroid hormone travels to the choroid plexus through the blood.

When the hormone encounters the transthyretin the plexus has produced, the

hormone binds to it. Then the protein transports the hormone into the brain. "

Luv - Sheila

" Both T3 and T4 function to increase the metabolic rate of several cells

and tissues. The brain, testes, lungs, and spleen are not affected by thyroid

hormones, however. T3 and T4 indirectly increase blood glucose levels as well

as the insulin-promoted uptake of glucose by fat cells " http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/310/Hormones.html#ixzz1VOcSio00

,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Hi when i take more T3 i think i felt like my blood glucose had risen a

bit, but i could just be having a bad day and its co-incedence...

DHEA i know nothing about what so ever, im always up for learning. I do know VAL

from the adrenals group HATES people taking DHEA i dont know the reasoning tho.

I have had all my sex hormones tested and they all came back within range and

" ok " by a respected endo but i also know nothing about sex hormones.

Interesting that you mention DHEA as i was just looking at my Saliva test as

mentioned it (i was not on T3 when tested as it was about 2 years ago my

latest saliva test) My morning DHEA result 6.93 and marked as High with the PM

0.73 marked as ok but the DHEA : Cortisol Ratio is way outside the range of

2.0-6.0 (mine was 20.16) It may be nothing but just thought id mention it since

you mentioned DHEA.

Steve

>

> Hi Steve

>

> so is the problem that you've taken more T3 and you feel more hypoglycemic?

>

> why aren't you taking DHEA too?

>

> have you had testostrone levels checked? Cortisol opposes testosterone, i

believe?

>

> chris

>

[Guest guest]

Im starting to see this also as HC is having a bad affect on me aswell as a good

affect, BUT i needed HC when i first started taking it i felt 100x better once i

started it, so while propping up the body doesnt replace things it can help alot

for a short period of time aslong as your able to wean off and your body can

pick back the production.

Steve

>

>

> Unfortunately, propping the body up with various replacements doesn't

actually replace things though.

[Guest guest]

Free Triiodothyronine Has a Distinct Circadian Rhythm That Is Delayed but Parallels Thyrotropin Levels

W. 1 , R. F. on 1 , N. , K. Darzy, S. Shalet, A. P. Weetman and R. J. Ross

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/93/6/2300.full.pdf+html

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/93/6/2300.long

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Circadian%20ross%20weetman

>> OK Steve here is one of my trade secrets.> > Your adrenals are producing cortisol in the last four hours of sleep at a higher rate than any other time of the day. Hence early morning cortisol (and testosterone in men) is higher that at any other time of the day and it gradually falls during the day, even though there are still pulsatile releases of cortisol as the day goes on (the total cortisol drops like a rock during the day).

[Guest guest]

>> when i take more T3 i think i felt like my blood glucose had risen a bit, but

i could just be having a bad day and its co-incedence...

What does that feel like to you though? what are your symptoms?

> DHEA i know nothing about what so ever, im always up for learning. I do know

VAL from the adrenals group HATES people taking DHEA i dont know the reasoning

tho.

Ok well everyone has their own views; my experience has been that DHEA (and

pregnenolone) have helped me a lot - i can't be sure which it was as i started

them together but I feel the benefit of taking them, and miss not taking them -

I think it's probably DHEA that i feel.

> I have had all my sex hormones tested and they all came back within range and

" ok " by a respected endo but i also know nothing about sex hormones.

do you know the numbers? or have you posted them previously?

> Interesting that you mention DHEA as i was just looking at my Saliva test as

mentioned it (i was not on T3 when tested as it was about 2 years ago my

latest saliva test) My morning DHEA result 6.93 and marked as High with the PM

0.73 marked as ok but the DHEA : Cortisol Ratio is way outside the range of

2.0-6.0 (mine was 20.16) It may be nothing but just thought id mention it since

you mentioned DHEA.

Sorry i wouldn't know how to interpret that - i just know i was low on DHEA-S

according to a blood test and feel better for taking DHEA

Chris

[Guest guest]

Im afraid thats the problem with me trying to find out information via google

lol... which is why i brought the topic onto the forum which im glad i did.

STeve

>

> " Both T3 and T4 function to increase the metabolic rate of several cells and

> tissues. The brain, testes, lungs, and spleen are not affected by thyroid

> hormones, however. T3 and T4 indirectly increase blood glucose levels as

> well as the insulin-promoted uptake of glucose by fat cells "

> http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/310/Hormones.html#ixzz1VOcSio00

>

>

>

>

> ,_._,___

>

[Guest guest]

** Please remember to remove old messages, thanks **

Any chance you could put that in simple terms lol ?

>

> Free Triiodothyronine Has a Distinct Circadian Rhythm That Is Delayed

> but Parallels Thyrotropin Levels

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Using HC as a means of surviving is fine. It is better to find an approach that

doesn't need it though.

I've talked very little yet her and in other forums about some of my specific

findings. I could be a lot more definite about what i know but I don't like

conflict. I do know that some people do indeed benefit from the method I've

described. Some may not. Only trying it thoroughly with the patience and

diligence of a tortoise will determine whether it works for someone or not. When

it does work it makes the adrenals work normally - all the dozens of hormones

that the body needs. These aren't replaceable - by any method.

Feeling good has always been my goal. I prefer to achieve this without

endangering my cardiovascular system or taking risks that might induce strokes

or cancer. My aim has always been to use the minimum amount of T3 that is needed

to do this. Achieving that has required some very smart uses of T3. One of which

I have discussed here. You won't find it discussed anywhere else at the moment

because as far as I know I'm the only one who is aware of it - apart from the

people I've told.

Good luck in whatever method you end up using. Just be careful when you

recommend things to other people.

I've seen too many recommendations of either high doses of T3/NDT/T4 or

combinations and various other additional hormones (adrenals, DHEA, sex

hormones, growth hormone etc.) which I don't think are necessary, from various

groups on the Internet. A lot of this I think is unnecessary and possibly

dangerous. If you have the money to get the best doctors in the world to monitor

your various levels then you may be fine. Most of us aren't in this category.

Taking various hormones may make you feel good but feeling good doesn't mean all

the levels are healthy.

Good luck to all.

[Guest guest]

The symptoms are, i felt spaced out throughout the day, i had to pee ALOT more

also and that my bowels just were not their usual self.

I do think now that it maybe the T3 but indifectly and that as paul said my

adrenals may be producing the other bits (non cortisol) and that its

interacting, kind of the way florinef and hc do making me possibly need less HC,

but as my HC dose is so high its having a knock on affect on my blood glucose.

Steve

>

> >> when i take more T3 i think i felt like my blood glucose had risen a bit,

but i could just be having a bad day and its co-incedence...

>

>

> What does that feel like to you though? what are your symptoms?

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I'll tell you why.

I did a thorough experiment. God knows how I persuaded my GP to do this but I

did - it must have cost a fortune!

I moved my first T3 dose gradually by half an hour every 4 weeks back from 8:00

am to 4:00 am. (I'm guessing on the 4 it may have been 3:30 am - I'm not looking

it up now).

After each move I did a 24 hour urinary cortisol.

My free cortisol and total cortisol was at the bottom of the reference range

when I started the test, with first T3 at 8:00am. By the time I got to 4:00 am

by free cortisol was about 90% of the range and my total was over the top of the

normal range.

My adrenals were fine. My adrenals weren't getting adequate levels of the right

thyroid hormone (T3) when they needed to go out to work!

However, at 4:00 am or 3:30 am my cortisol was so high I began to get symptoms -

calcium levels went up (I tested this also - asked my GP to do it) and I got

bone pain.

Driving cortisol has to be done carefully Chris.

Your can't just go at it as it there is no consequences. This is my entire point

with the attitude of throwing a collection of hormones at symptoms without

knowing what is really going on or what the actual levels are.

Don't rely on saliva tests either- with T3 they may be flawed. The T3 may cause

various hormones to be quickly taken up by cells. This is a big question mark

and needs to be avoided on T3 until there is proper research.

So, 1/2 hour moves every few weeks with good note taking.

How you titrate your T3 dose and adrenal hormones - god knows.

If it was me and I knew that I didn't have a failing adrenal due to a tumour or

a failing synacthen test then I'd stop the adrenal hormones first and leave a

gap of several weeks prior to doing this test. Otherwise I'd never be able to

work out what was happening. Yes, I'd feel crap but I can't see any other way.

The T3 may also need to be titrated once the adrenals start to work. This could

be a 3-6 month experiment. Not quick but could be really important. Good note

taking and careful analysis of symptoms and signs would be key.

Cheers,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for explaining, but I can't offer any suggestions or thoughts on this -

it's not like anything i've experienced: I only tend to know about things I've

experienced myself, as these are things I'll research.

Chris

>

> The symptoms are, i felt spaced out throughout the day, i had to pee ALOT

more also and that my bowels just were not their usual self.

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I'm afraid I can't comment on your message here as my views are almost

orthogonal to some existing viewpoints.

I will say that the level of mythology about some things that gets passed around

is simply staggering.

That's all I can say here. It's not your fault mate. Just some groups and the

Internet.

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

You might want to wonder why I could recognise you had been working with the rT3

group etc. from the medication levels you were on.

I can't comment on this anymore though for obvious reasons.

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like you are taking too much T3 if you are getting these

symptoms or not spacing out the doses sufficiently throughout the day and you

are getting 'peaks' of T3. When did you last try to lower your dose of T3 - or

have you increased the number of times you split your dose. Have you tried

starting your first dose early in the morning - set your alarm clock if

necessary as suggests for 4.30a.m.

Sheila

The symptoms are, i felt spaced out throughout

the day, i had to pee ALOT more also and that my bowels just were not their

usual self.

I do think now that it maybe the T3 but indifectly and that as paul said my

adrenals may be producing the other bits (non cortisol) and that its

interacting, kind of the way florinef and hc do making me possibly need less

HC, but as my HC dose is so high its having a knock on affect on my blood

glucose.