Re: Hydrocortisone makes me depressed

[Guest guest]

How much are you taking, how often, and based on what test results? What's your

diet like ?

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I am on 20mg plus 4 nutri adrenal extra.

I have been on it for about two months now (increasing it slowly of course).

My diet is healthy but with the hydrocortisone I am full of water.

I am not happy with it, I am depressed because of it.

Thank you.

Vivien

>

> How much are you taking, how often, and based on what test results? What's

your diet like ?

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry I didn't reply " based on what results " .

I had a saliva test, I have adrenal fatigue and Dr Peatfield put me on

hydrocortisone but I don't think it's for me.

Vivien

>

> How much are you taking, how often, and based on what test results? What's

your diet like ?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I don't know what the answer is, but I had the same problem with depression.

There's some suggestion that it might be because the dose was too low. How much

have you been taking?

Susie

[Guest guest]

Hi Vivien

So has the HC made you depressed, or do you feel depresed because of the weight

gain?

It could be the former, if you've been low a long time.

Baschetti has written about chronic fatigue, and somebody reported feeling

depressed on HC.

http://www.newtreatments.org/fromweb/licoriceconversation.txt

Capt Wms: I added 3 mg of hydrocortisone to my licorice and

became depressed within 3 days. What's going on here?

Dr. Baschetti:

It is not surprising that you began to feel depressed after taking

hydrocortisone. As I wrote in my fax of 28 April, you might need hydrocortisone

" within a few months " , not now. Your hypocortisolemia lasted 20 years. As a

consequence, your glucocorticoid receptors (GR) have an enhanced sensitivity.

This explains why for some months even small doses of hydrocortisone added to

licorice, which greatly potentiates its action, may result in effects similar to

those produced by hypercortisolemia, a typical abnormality of depressed

subjects. Hydrocortisone, therefore, should only be taken some months later,

when the sensitivity of your GR will be gradually normalized. Of course, the

hypersensitivity of GR may well explain why licorice, initially, is extremely

effective even at very small doses. The gradual normalization of the GR's

sensitivity leads to the requirement of parallel increased dosage of licorice.

I must stress, however, that your future use of hydrocortisone, although

probable, is not mandatory. In other words, if licorice dissolved in milk will

continue to be sufficient to keep good

conditions, the drug will not be necessary.

==

could it also be that you had sufficient cortisol to begin with? I have read

that saliva tests can be low when someone is clearing cortisol quickly.

Personally i'd be interested in what a 24 hr urinary free cortisol test 'said' -

that indicates how much free cortisol you secreted over a day Just a thought.

==

It could be that you need DHEA to counter the effects of cortisol – some doctors

would never give HC without dhea to balance it out.

==

It might be that you're low on another hormone; do this questionnaire and see

what It says?

thyroid treatment/files/MEDICAL%20QUES\

TIONNAIRES/ click on " Hormone Questionnaire.Dr Thierry Hertoghe.xls "

==

What brand of HC are you on? Could it be something in there that's not agreeing

with you? (I for instance felt allergic to Cortef, but not with West Ward, or

Auden Mckenzie)

==

You ask what an alternative is: you could try an adrenal cortex only extract

(mandimart.co.uk sell these) but if the nutri stuff didn't do much for you, that

may not either.

==

You don't specify how you are taking it. Ie, are you taking it all in one go,

or split throughout the day? Could you split it into 5-5-5-5?

==

You say your diet is healthy but what does that mean exactly? :-)

Why do I ask what your diet is? Well you say you are full of water (are you

sure it's water though?). I understand that cortisol and insulin opposite each

other. If you raise your cortisol you raise insulin. Too much insulin may

cause water retention? It is recommended by some people that you stick to a very

low GI diet while on HC because too high a GI will cause too much insulin – If

you add to a higher level of insulin from HC with higher levels of insulin from

eating GI foods - could that cause a problem, and cause this weight gain, and

water retention? Do you drink much tea/coffee? This may cause further

problems with insulin sensitivity?

>Sorry I didn't reply " based on what results " .

Yes but " what specifically " were those results? :-)

Just my unqualified thoughts....do you feel better or worse on it (what does

that tell you? does it indicate you may need something else to balance it out?

or are on too much, too little or didn't need it?), could you look at your

diet, how you're dosing etc?

chris

>

> Sorry I didn't reply " based on what results " .

> I had a saliva test, I have adrenal fatigue and Dr Peatfield put me on

hydrocortisone but I don't think it's for me.

> Vivien

>

[Guest guest]

OK, this reply may irritate some people. It is based on some knowledge and some

experience and some results of saliva tests and some discussions with saliva

testing companies.

1. Adrenals are often under-performing when thyroid hormones are low. Adrenals

are made of cells just like everything else and they too require thyroid

hormones to work right. They even need to have the right thyroid hormones in

order to work right. Vivien, I know you are now using T3. If you are using only

T3 then it is possible that by the time the adrenals are trying to produce

adrenal hormones (in the last 4 hours of sleep the adrenals produce their

highest volume of output of the day - 4:00 am to 8:00 am), that the adrenals are

short of T3.

2. Just because the adrenals are under producing doesn't mean someone needs to

take hydrocortisone or any form of adrenal support. If you are getting fat on HC

then there is every reason to suggest that you shouldn't actually be on it.

3. Saliva tests often come back low. I've talked to the guy that runs one saliva

test company and even he acknowledged that unless the saliva test comes back

with an almost zero result that it is not possible to determine if someone

should be taking adrenal support based on a saliva test.

4. On T3 all bets are off on saliva tests. The companies that run the tests

don't know what T3 does. My own results suggest that T3 meds cause rapid blood

level lowering of cortisol - and may cause false positives for low adrenal

results in saliva tests.

5. Too many people are being put on adrenal hormones and glandulars in my

opinion when what they really need is more appropriate thyroid hormone

treatment.

6. Finally, there is a technique that is available ONLY with T3 that almost no

one and certainly NO doctor is currently aware of until my book comes out.

A first T3 dose may be taken earlier than 8:00 am, typically at 7:00 am to begin

with. This first T3 dose can fully resource the patient's adrenal glands so that

they work normally and produce the right amount of adrenal hormones (not just

cortisol). For someone who has already adjusted their T3 medication and still

doesn't feel good a twenty four hour urinary cortisol test can reveal a true

indication of total cortisol output - better than an unreliable saliva test for

someone on T3. If the cortisol is really low then the first dose of T3 may be

taken at 7:00 am for several weeks and then adjusted to 6:00 am and so on.

I take my first dose of T3 at 4:30 am - my cortisol levels are at the high end

of normal whereas they were low without this early dose. I need NO

hydrocortisone and I feel well.

HC and adrenal glandulars appear to be given out and being used like dolly

mixtures. I don't agree with it. Neither does your body by the sound of it.

Like I said - many may not agree with this view as it runs counter to a lot of

things that are discussed on the Internet.

Take care,

>

> Sorry I didn't reply " based on what results " .

[Guest guest]

Hi :

I think it's different for everyone, as we are all individuals. I don't think

passing out adrenal glandulars like candy is a good thing either. I do, however,

feel that many people are put on thyroid hormone when in truth it's the adrenals

which are shot. Once the adrenals are up and running properly, they find out

that they need less thyroid meds. It's a bit of a rock and a hard space trying

to figure out what needs tweaking, if it's not both adrenal and thyroid.

I believe too many people go the thyroid meds route thinking that must be the

trouble, when in fact, it's adrenal. With me for instance, my adrenals needed

the support. I'm on 1 grain of ERFA which balances my temps, my blood pressure

and my pulse. Celtic Sea Salt, magnesium, vitamin c and selenium help both the

adrenals and the thyroid and these have done wonders for my system.

Cheers,

JOT

> 5. Too many people are being put on adrenal hormones and glandulars in my

opinion when what they really need is more appropriate thyroid hormone

treatment.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with you Jotty,

Everyone is different. Everyone needs a unique tailored solution that is ideal

to them.

I am violently agreeing with you.

Unfortunately, there appears to be a theme going on where a lot of people here

and in the USA end of very quickly on adrenal hormones because they appear to

have adrenal symptoms.

Of course they have bloody adrenal symptoms because their thyroid hormones have

not been selected right or adjusted right - the wrong hormones are being used or

the wrong dosages are being used or blood tests are being used to titrate

dosages. In addition there is no one that realises that thyroid hormones,

especially T3, taken at the right time can actually make our own adrenals work

right.

I am NOT saying - repeat NOT for those people that didn't see the first NOT -

that some people don't need to be on adrenal meds. That would be dumb.

There just needs to be a little more sensitivity about the determination to go

that route. If correct thyroid hormones are given then many people just find

their adrenals come right back up.

I replied to Vivien because she is clearly not responding to adrenals on a T3

dosage that appears to be in the early stages of titration i.e. she is only just

starting to raise her T3 level. This is such a common observation. Many people

actually don't need to go on adrenal support and just need to wait until the

thyroid hormones start to work.

In my case my adrenals were so low I was passing out each day with low blood

pressure. On hydrocortisone and prednisolone I did feel slightly better but it

was a false security. These meds were not really fixing my issues and were

actually getting in the way of visualising my actual symptoms and allowing me to

determine what thyroid hormone dosage I needed to be on. I did not need to be on

any form of adrenal support - it was a bad choice.

It isn't a bad choice for some people.

My concern is around the decision mechanism that appears to result in so may

people ending up taking adrenal hormone. Just because people feel better on

adrenal hormone doesn't mean it is right. I might feel better on heroin for a

couple of hours but it wouldn't be the right thing to do. Feeling better is not

necessarily the only measure that needs to be applied - it requires far more

sensitivity and thoughtfulness than this.

I'm done and ready to be burned at the stake.

>

[Guest guest]

p.s. I forget to mention that some people have observed that excess cortisol can

cause depression, insomnia and difficulty in getting up in the morning.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I did two months of hydrocortisone and almost immediately started putting on

weight.

I started T3 only a few days ago.

Hydrocortisone helped me A LOT with the IMMENSE pain that I had in all of my

body but I am deeply depressed because I put on so much weight and I just " feel "

that hydrocortisone is not for me.

I have been told by Dr Peatfield to continue taking hydrocortisone but I hope I

will have an appointment with him as soon as possible to let him understand how

unhealthy I feel on hydrocortisone.

I am sure you all understand when I say that I just feel there is something

wrong going on here with my body.

Thank you for your time.

Vivien

>

> OK, this reply may irritate some people. It is based on some knowledge and

some experience and some results of saliva tests and some discussions with

saliva testing companies.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I was put on HC and have never felt so well in all my life AND I did not put on weight - which shows me that I needed it - I think if you swell up you don't need it - althought that is rather a sweeping statement I know.

I am also a kidney patient and if anyone would swell up with HC it would be me if I didnt need it.

Best wishes

Mandy

[Guest guest]

HI again,

I repeat what I've said previously.

Some symptoms improve dramatically with hydrocortisone and some don't.

Inflammation and pain can be caused because of low adrenal hormones OR because

of low thyroid hormones OR because of low adrenal hormones caused by low thyroid

hormones.

Taking adrenal support can be perfectly the right thing to do.

Taking adrenal support can be a thing to do whilst trying to get the thyroid

hormones correct and then they need to be reduced as soon as possible because

they are not needed when the right levels of the right thyroid hormones are

taken correctly.

Taking adrenal support can be a poor choice even if they appear to fix some

symptoms.

The choices need to be made carefully, sensitively and with lots of data,

ideally with lab test data that clearly indicate low cortisol levels. I'd

personally (my preference OK) like to see more than just a saliva test result or

a low BP - substantial lab data before heavy duty adrenal hormones are used

(even if they make me feel better).

Take care,

>

[Guest guest]

If you have a problem with something Dr P recommended, then I would discuss the

matter with him.

Miriam

> Sorry I didn't reply " based on what results " .

> I had a saliva test, I have adrenal fatigue and Dr Peatfield put me on

hydrocortisone but I don't think it's for me.

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Thank you ! You have put into words some extremely thoughtful and useful advice. Some of it I knew, some of it I suspected and some was news to me.

First of all, I totally agree with you about the various points you make about HC in general – although with the proviso that we are talking about physiological dosages; i.e. no more than 40 mg HC/day as the absolute max (and you'd need to be near addisonian levels to need that amount). Therapeutic dosages of glucocorticoid will – in the long run – make anybody fat.

Furthermore, it is no secret that the use of glucocorticoids has mind-altering properties. It can make some people feel depressed – here are just two articles - out of hundreds - on the subject....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10903817

http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/content/depression/art1963.html?getPage=2 extract: ...There is little doubt among scientists that glucocorticoids, the final products of the LHPA axis, have profound effects on mood and behavior.(32) For example, those afflicted with Cushing's syndrome, a disease where excess cortisol (the "stress" hormone) is produced, have a high incidence of depression. Most interestingly, their depression disappears when cortisol levels return to normal with treatment.(23)(38)

..... which comes basically back to what you were saying, .... if it makes you fat or depressed, you probably don't need it.

I also find your observation on thyroid hormone and adrenals extremely interesting...

`If you are using only T3 then it is possible that by the time the adrenals are trying to produce adrenal hormones (in the last 4 hours of sleep the adrenals produce their highest volume of output of the day - 4:00 am to 8:00 am), that the adrenals are short of T3.'

I have a tub of (generic) Armour (which does of course contains T3) by my bedside and I take it between 5 am and 6 am usually, when I first open my eyes, which is about 2-3 hours before I normally get up. I have noticed that I generally feel better during the day when I take my thyroid meds in the small hours of the morning. Often I wake just after 4 am, wide awake and can't go back to sleep – I then take my Armour and within minutes I am back in noddy-noddy land and have the best sleep of the night. This is not just my own observation, but my niece tells me exactly the same. `My own results suggest that T3 meds cause rapid blood level lowering of cortisol - and may cause false positives for low adrenal results in saliva tests.'

`I take my first dose of T3 at 4:30 am - my cortisol levels are at the high end of normal whereas they were low without this early dose. I need NO hydrocortisone and I feel well.'Again.... this is extremely useful information – thank you.

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi and ;

Interesting comments about taking T3 early. I am on T3 only and am often awake

by 4 am. After that I tend to just doze but I have been waiting to take my T3

till around 7 am. I'll try a 4 am dose and see if I feel a difference.

Kind regards

Jane

>

>

> Hello ,

>

> Thank you ! You have put into words some extremely thoughtful and

> useful advice. Some of it I knew, some of it I suspected and some was

> news to me.

>

>

> `If you are using only T3 then it is possible that by the time the

> adrenals are trying to produce adrenal hormones (in the last 4 hours of

> sleep the adrenals produce their highest volume of output of the day -

> 4:00 am to 8:00 am), that the adrenals are short of T3.'

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think you missed one of my other posts, where I said I will discuss this with

him as soon as possible (I don't think he is available for me on Saturday or

Sunday). This doesn't mean I can't discuss it here too.

Thank you.

Vivien

>

> If you have a problem with something Dr P recommended, then I would discuss

the matter with him.

> Miriam

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

I had 24 hour urine test +++ others to determine mine ....

Best wishes

Mandy

[Guest guest]

any thoughts on having excess insulin?

chris

>

> I think you missed one of my other posts, where I said I will discuss this

with him as soon as possible

[Guest guest]

Sorry if I was stating the obvious, but I do know someone who ran into

difficulties with Dr P's treatment, but instead of getting back to him they

complained to another doctor about it! :-(

Personally, I gave up hydrocortisone treatment because it was making me put on

too much weight, particularly on the upper back between the shoulder blades, and

on the stomach. He is likely to ask you how much weight you have put on, so if

you can come up with a figure that will be helpful.

Miriam

>

> I think you missed one of my other posts, where I said I will discuss this

with him as soon as possible (I don't think he is available for me on Saturday

or Sunday). This doesn't mean I can't discuss it here too.

[Guest guest]

Hi I'm unsure whether your concerns on insulin have been answered, but I've just received this from Dr Mercola;

Building muscle, losing fat, and improving overall health is dependent on one very important hormone -insulin.

6 tips to get your insulin sensitivity high and keep it there. Here are three of them:

Tighten the reins on refined carbs: One of the primary reasons people develop diabetes is their overconsumption of refined carbs and sugars, which causes their pancreas to continually pump out more and more insulin.

Have some healthy fats: Another way to increase your insulin sensitivity is by optimizing the rate at which your body processes carbohydrates by eating plenty of healthy fats.

Stay active all day: Most people hit the gym regularly, but they succumb to long periods of inactivity during the rest of their day. This is asking for trouble.

To read the rest of their tips, click on the link below.

Sources:

Health July 15, 2011

Bill

>> any thoughts on having excess insulin?> > chris