Re: OT: U/S, the ear, and ear infections

[Guest guest]

ear candling involve sticking a hollow candle in the ear (while lying down)

and burning the candle. the premise is that as the flame burns, it suck the

wax out of the ear.

Kathy On,Can

Re: OT: U/S, the ear, and ear infections

>

>

> >

> > > In a message dated 2/10/01 12:59:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> > xtina@h...

> > > writes:

> > >

> > >

> > > > it is a good way to get meningitis for example...ive

> > > > seen it happen lots of times.`

> > > >

> > >

> > > christina,

> > > you've actually seen " lots of " cases of meningitis? it's actually

> > a

> > > relatively rare occurance--how do you see so much of it?

> > > brigit, in albany

> >

> > *************

> >

> > I work in a central hospital in toronto canada (Toronto General and

> > worked at Mount Sinai at the time when i was full time) ...we get the

> > referrals from all the other places when it is something serious. Im

> > talking referals from all over canada...not just ontario.

> > ENT departments are small in many centers that is why we get the

> > serious stuff....i obviously havent seen the meningitis while in full

> > swing....i see have seen them in clinic during follow up and during

> > rounds.

> > I have seen about 12-15 cases (i think) in a period of 5 years of

> > oto-induced meningitis....anything ranging from recurrant ear

> > infections (im talking their whole life....people with really nasty

> > ears from repeated infections that have lasted 30 years or so of their

> > lives)...to mastitis induced meningitis, to 2 cases as a direct link

> > to ear candleing, etc. I worked only with adults at this time so i

> > cannot comment on childrens relationship with meningitis and ear

> > maladies specifically because those i have not seen....i doubt that

> > they are much different though. I have not seen any cases in about 2

> > years now, but i only work 2x a week now and i dont go on rounds

> > anymore due to my part time status. So perhaps 15 cases or so of

> > meningitis isnt alot to you, but it certainly is to me.

> > I hope this answer is satisfactory....although, i find whenever i

> > post anything regarding my direct experiences in the area of ears i

> > get alot of flack from this group. Im not sure why, but i do find it

> > disconcerting.

> > in canada

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 04:10:02 -0000 " " <xtina@...> writes:

> I have been seeing posts regarding Ultrasounds and increased ear

> infections.....I cant even see how the two would be linked...

Hey ! I'm not offended, but I AM impressed - thanks for the

" ear lesson! " You really know your stuff!

Namaste, Gretchen

from Lexington, KY

Mama to Maya Music (8/16/95)

Karuna-Rhythm Joy (5/2/98)

and Isabella Maitri-Song (10/25/00)

________________________________________________________________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

[Guest guest]

, thanks for the lesson in ears! Much appreciated! So just

because my little guy pulls his ear, doesn't mean it's infected? Can

the general mommy peek into a child's ear and tell if it's infected? I

know that is probably a majorly retarded question, but I ahve to ask

jsut to be sure.

Thanks

~

Maxwell 4/5/00

Texas

--- <xtina@...> wrote:

> I have been seeing posts regarding Ultrasounds and increased ear

> infections.....I cant even see how the two would be linked...

> It is true that there is evidence coming down the pipeline that U/S

> causes " ear problems " but the situation is actually more serious than

>

> ear infections. Ear infections have alot to do with the ability of

> the ear to drain effectively via the eustachian tube. For the most

> part ear infections are a " mechanical " problem....now im NOT saying

> that this is the only cause for ear infections because i do believe

> that allergies etc can contribute causally. Having said that...the

> U/S link to ear " problems " is actually in reference to sensori-neural

>

> hearing loss....not a loss related to ear infections. A

> sensori-neural hearing loss is a permenant hearing loss. There is no

>

> " cure " for it....only hearing aids. The U/S is believed to affect it

>

> because the cochlea (hearing organ) is a fluid filled enclosed

> chamber. The U/s waves are thought to play havock with the tiny

> cellular structures located within the cochlea....and actually

> destroy

> them. This of course impinges upon the development of speech and

> such.

> Also, just because a child tugs at their ear...it DOES NOT mean that

> they have an ear infection necessarily. It drives me nuts when MDs

> make this claim....anyone ever have a cold and their ears became

> plugged up?? That is not an ear infection...this happens to

> children...ALOT. If i had a dime for everytime my son tugged on his

> ear, i would be a rich woman indeed. But i just look in his ear and

> i

> can see that he doesnt have an infection...(i am an audiologist).

> I know that somehow i will offend someone with this post...although i

>

> will not understand why or how....just know that this post is merely

> intended to explain the problems associated with U/S and the

> ear...and

> how ear tugging isnt always an ear infection.

>

> Having said all this...i stupidly agreed to 3 U/S with my

> son....never

> knew the dangers when i was preggers and i didnt even think about the

>

> association...dumb huh!!

>

> in Canada

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/9/01 10:11:28 PM Central Standard Time, xtina@...

writes:

<< Also, just because a child tugs at their ear...it DOES NOT mean that

they have an ear infection necessarily. It drives me nuts when MDs

make this claim....anyone ever have a cold and their ears became

plugged up?? That is not an ear infection...this happens to

children...ALOT. If i had a dime for everytime my son tugged on his

ear, i would be a rich woman indeed. But i just look in his ear and i

can see that he doesnt have an infection...(i am an audiologist).

I know that somehow i will offend someone with this post...although i

will not understand why or how....just know that this post is merely

intended to explain the problems associated with U/S and the ear...and

how ear tugging isnt always an ear infection. >>

APPARENTLY you did not read ALL the posts... U/S affect EVERYTHING forming

at the time of the U/S and then some... this includes the entire ear,

neuropathways, glands, etc. in the head area. AND i stated that because I

knew my son was at risk for ear infections (YES, there is substantiated

evidence that children exposed to u/s during inutero have INCREASED numbers

of ear INFECTIONS, usually middle ear, but many times due to over production

of wax and the wax expanding), that each time he tugged at his ear, which WAS

his sister's signal, I treated him. I DID NOT say I gave him antibiotics. I

DID NOT say he was taken to a doctor. i DID NOT in any way infer that he was

given drugs, and anyone who's read my posts would know better. I use, and

have only EVER USED, garlic in mullein oil.

Now, if you weren't refering to my post (it's the only one that mentioned

tugging at the ear), I apologize.

Carol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/9/01 11:26:04 PM Central Standard Time,

carriebeary77@... writes:

<< the general mommy peek into a child's ear and tell if it's infected? >>

yes, you need an otoscope. Ours came with instructions and easy to follow

diagrams. Personally, when they're little, if you suspect something might be

on it's way, it's easier to just to put a couple drops of warmed

mullein/garlic oil in their ear. The garlic fights any possible infection,

the mullein oil soothes the swelling. Of course if you think the drum's

punctured, you need to do something different (I popped a clove of garlic and

placed it just in my husband's ear, and he laid on the opposite side.

difficult to get a kid to do this).

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/9/01 11:11:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, xtina@... writes:

.. But i just look in his ear and i can see that he doesnt have an infection...(i am an audiologist).

christina,

how exactly can you "see" if a child has an ear infection or not--you cannot see into their ears far enough to see if there is an infection, so you are only guessing, maybe basing this on the color inside the ear (a redness or whatever)... whether you are an audiologist or not, i don't see how anyone can know if a child has an infection in there??

brigit, in albany

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/01 12:59:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, xtina@... writes:

it is a good way to get meningitis for example...ive seen it happen lots of times.`

christina,

you've actually seen "lots of" cases of meningitis? it's actually a relatively rare occurance--how do you see so much of it?

brigit, in albany

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 2/9/01 10:11:28 PM Central Standard Time,

xtina@h...

> writes:

>

> << Also, just because a child tugs at their ear...it DOES NOT mean

that

> they have an ear infection necessarily. It drives me nuts when MDs

> make this claim....anyone ever have a cold and their ears became

> plugged up?? That is not an ear infection...this happens to

> children...ALOT. If i had a dime for everytime my son tugged on

his

> ear, i would be a rich woman indeed. But i just look in his ear

and i

> can see that he doesnt have an infection...(i am an audiologist).

> I know that somehow i will offend someone with this post...although

i

> will not understand why or how....just know that this post is

merely

> intended to explain the problems associated with U/S and the

ear...and

> how ear tugging isnt always an ear infection. >>

>

> APPARENTLY you did not read ALL the posts... U/S affect EVERYTHING

forming

> at the time of the U/S and then some... this includes the entire

ear,

> neuropathways, glands, etc. in the head area. AND i stated that

because I

> knew my son was at risk for ear infections (YES, there is

substantiated

> evidence that children exposed to u/s during inutero have INCREASED

numbers

> of ear INFECTIONS, usually middle ear, but many times due to over

production

> of wax and the wax expanding), that each time he tugged at his ear,

which WAS

> his sister's signal, I treated him. I DID NOT say I gave him

antibiotics. I

> DID NOT say he was taken to a doctor. i DID NOT in any way infer

that he was

> given drugs, and anyone who's read my posts would know better. I

use, and

> have only EVER USED, garlic in mullein oil.

>

> Now, if you weren't refering to my post (it's the only one that

mentioned

> tugging at the ear), I apologize.

>

> Carol

************

See...I told you someone would find my post offensive....apparently

you didnt read MY post thoroughly. I never meant to imply that you

did go to the MD, nor that you would give them antibiotics. I was

merely stating that MD's are the ones who push the antibiotics.

Also, wax production is based on hereditary factors. And children

produce more wax than adults because their ear canals are much smaller

so the wax doesnt slough out as easily.

Also...you meantion that ear infections are in the middle ear...this

is true...THAT is otitis media...but saying that it is linked with wax

production is accually innacurate...wax is produced solely in the

OUTER ear. This is the only location of the wax glands FYI.

As for U/S affecting everything...i dont doubt it. But, seeing as

how ear infections tend to run in the family also, and that it is a

predominately mechanical problem, i still am hard pressed to believe

that U/S are the sole cause for ear infections.

Ear infections tend to run in some racial populations for

example...who are rarely exposed to U/S....and it does run in

families.

Also...just because your child tugs at his/her ear...how do you know

it is an infection. It could be a multitude of things FYI....and it

does not mean that it is an ear infection!!

My only point in posting originally was to try and explain the

mechanics of ear infections and how U/S affect the INNER ear

predominantely....which IMO is a much more serious problem.

christina

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 2/9/01 11:26:04 PM Central Standard Time,

> carriebeary77@y... writes:

>

> << the general mommy peek into a child's ear and tell if it's

infected? >>

>

> yes, you need an otoscope. Ours came with instructions and easy to

follow

> diagrams. Personally, when they're little, if you suspect something

might be

> on it's way, it's easier to just to put a couple drops of warmed

> mullein/garlic oil in their ear. The garlic fights any possible

infection,

> the mullein oil soothes the swelling. Of course if you think the

drum's

> punctured, you need to do something different (I popped a clove of

garlic and

> placed it just in my husband's ear, and he laid on the opposite

side.

> difficult to get a kid to do this).

**********

It is very dangerous to place anything in the ear if there is a hole

in the eardrum....it is a good way to get meningitis for example...ive

seen it happen lots of times.`

chrisitna in canada

[Guest guest]

I did answer this post but i dont see it anywhere....if it shows up

again im sorry for double posting.

You would need to look in the ear with an otoscope...but even if you

did you wouldnt know unless the eardrum was all red. There is a way

that the light reflects off the eardrum (called the " cone of

light " ...really it is actually called that LOL). If it isnt there, or

it isnt a cone shape it is a good way to tell that things arent well

in ear-land. Also, one can see if the eardrum is retracted or

bulging....but truthfully, i would be careful when using an otoscope

because if it isnt held properly you can puncture the eardrum. In

anycase, the majority of ear infections clear up completely on their

own. The body is an amazing thing. Also, if it truly is an ear

infection that you would have to worry about....you would likely know.

They are truly, incredibly PAINFUL...ive had them once or

twice....they really hurt!!!! YOur poor little one would be

screaming. The worse that would happen is that the eardrum would

rupture on its own..so you sould see blood....And most of those

self-heal also.

I would be careful putting anything in the ear unless you know there

is no rupture. The ear drum is also very permeable and any liquid

that you place in the eardrum will pass through to the middle ear.

The only thing seperating the middle ear from the brain is a tough

membrane....located above the middle ear...and the bone is very

spongey so again, i would be worried about permeability.

But i have also placed warm olive oil, and garlic oil in my ears and

my little ones ears.

Please...for those of you whom this post offends, please read it

carefully because i am not trying to make any implications...honest.

I am just trying to explain how this works. Thats all.

christina

********************

> > I have been seeing posts regarding Ultrasounds and increased ear

> > infections.....I cant even see how the two would be linked...

> > It is true that there is evidence coming down the pipeline that

U/S

> > causes " ear problems " but the situation is actually more serious

than

> >

> > ear infections. Ear infections have alot to do with the ability

of

> > the ear to drain effectively via the eustachian tube. For the

most

> > part ear infections are a " mechanical " problem....now im NOT

saying

> > that this is the only cause for ear infections because i do

believe

> > that allergies etc can contribute causally. Having said

that...the

> > U/S link to ear " problems " is actually in reference to

sensori-neural

> >

> > hearing loss....not a loss related to ear infections. A

> > sensori-neural hearing loss is a permenant hearing loss. There is

no

> >

> > " cure " for it....only hearing aids. The U/S is believed to affect

it

> >

> > because the cochlea (hearing organ) is a fluid filled enclosed

> > chamber. The U/s waves are thought to play havock with the tiny

> > cellular structures located within the cochlea....and actually

> > destroy

> > them. This of course impinges upon the development of speech and

> > such.

> > Also, just because a child tugs at their ear...it DOES NOT mean

that

> > they have an ear infection necessarily. It drives me nuts when

MDs

> > make this claim....anyone ever have a cold and their ears became

> > plugged up?? That is not an ear infection...this happens to

> > children...ALOT. If i had a dime for everytime my son tugged on

his

> > ear, i would be a rich woman indeed. But i just look in his ear

and

> > i

> > can see that he doesnt have an infection...(i am an audiologist).

> > I know that somehow i will offend someone with this

post...although i

> >

> > will not understand why or how....just know that this post is

merely

> > intended to explain the problems associated with U/S and the

> > ear...and

> > how ear tugging isnt always an ear infection.

> >

> > Having said all this...i stupidly agreed to 3 U/S with my

> > son....never

> > knew the dangers when i was preggers and i didnt even think about

the

> >

> > association...dumb huh!!

> >

> > in Canada

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 2/9/01 11:11:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

xtina@h...

> writes:

>

>

> > . But i just look in his ear and i

> > can see that he doesnt have an infection...(i am an audiologist).

> >

>

> christina,

> how exactly can you " see " if a child has an ear infection or

not--you cannot

> see into their ears far enough to see if there is an infection, so

you are

> only guessing, maybe basing this on the color inside the ear (a

redness or

> whatever)... whether you are an audiologist or not, i don't see

how anyone

> can know if a child has an infection in there??

> brigit, in albany

***************

If its a serious infection the eardrum will be red...if there is

fluid in the middle ear you can see a fluid line sometimes, or

bubbles behind the eardrum, or it is occaissionally yellowish and that

is the real gluey stuff behind the eardrum.. " glue-ear " . You can

also see if the eardrum is retracted...and the " cone of light " also

gives you information about the status of the middle ear.

If it is a mild infection...youre right you cant tell for the most

part. Unless it is affecting the pressure of the middle ear in which

case i have already discussed this. IMO i wouldnt do anything for a

" mild " infection...but that is just my opinion. There is alot you can

tell from the eardrum.....heck you can from any part of the body if

you know what to look for...isnt that the basis of iridology??

christina in canada

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 2/10/01 12:59:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,

xtina@h...

> writes:

>

>

> > it is a good way to get meningitis for example...ive

> > seen it happen lots of times.`

> >

>

> christina,

> you've actually seen " lots of " cases of meningitis? it's actually

a

> relatively rare occurance--how do you see so much of it?

> brigit, in albany

*************

I work in a central hospital in toronto canada (Toronto General and

worked at Mount Sinai at the time when i was full time) ...we get the

referrals from all the other places when it is something serious. Im

talking referals from all over canada...not just ontario.

ENT departments are small in many centers that is why we get the

serious stuff....i obviously havent seen the meningitis while in full

swing....i see have seen them in clinic during follow up and during

rounds.

I have seen about 12-15 cases (i think) in a period of 5 years of

oto-induced meningitis....anything ranging from recurrant ear

infections (im talking their whole life....people with really nasty

ears from repeated infections that have lasted 30 years or so of their

lives)...to mastitis induced meningitis, to 2 cases as a direct link

to ear candleing, etc. I worked only with adults at this time so i

cannot comment on childrens relationship with meningitis and ear

maladies specifically because those i have not seen....i doubt that

they are much different though. I have not seen any cases in about 2

years now, but i only work 2x a week now and i dont go on rounds

anymore due to my part time status. So perhaps 15 cases or so of

meningitis isnt alot to you, but it certainly is to me.

I hope this answer is satisfactory....although, i find whenever i

post anything regarding my direct experiences in the area of ears i

get alot of flack from this group. Im not sure why, but i do find it

disconcerting.

in canada

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/01 11:59:21 AM Central Standard Time, xtina@...

writes:

<< Also...you meantion that ear infections are in the middle ear...this

is true...THAT is otitis media...but saying that it is linked with wax

production is accually innacurate...wax is produced solely in the

OUTER ear. This is the only location of the wax glands FYI.

>>

You know what??? I didn't say wax production was linked to ear infections.

And if you read it that way, then here it is re-worded: parents may read or

say ear infection, because that term is thrown around alot, when in fact all

it is is swollen ear wax. This can occur from something as simple as water

getting in during a bath. How do you know the difference? Most parents

arent going to know the difference. But either a laying on a warm washcloth

or using warmed mullein oil, will almost always soothe the ear from any kind

of inflammation. This is MY experience, it is what I was advised to do by

two NDs 7 years ago, and it has always worked.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/01 11:59:29 AM Central Standard Time, xtina@...

writes:

<< it just in my husband's ear, >>

<<It is very dangerous to place anything in the ear >>

There is a difference between shoving things INTO the ear, and placing

something just in the ear... nothing should ever be placed into the ear. I

said, just in the ear. As in, no further than his ear plugs. As in, no

further than the q-tip I use after I've coned his ears. As in, no further

than the cone I use to cone his ears.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/01 1:14:30 PM Central Standard Time,

beebemcel@... writes:

<< whether you are an audiologist or not, i don't see how anyone

can know if a child has an infection in there?? >>

ditto, and I've almost asked twice now. Even Dr. mendelsohn said there is no

way to tell for sure if there is an ear infection. Kids' ears can be red

from any number of things Cryings, stress, cold winds, etc. They can also

be inflamed from same, or water irritation. The audiologist my son saw three

times only knew about hearing and hearing loss, not ear infections. She

could guess that a previous ear infection may have caused a hearing loss, but

she isn't able to diagnose nor was she trained to.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . I appreciate the info. Max seems to be ok. Not

screaming or anything like when he had his last infection. Poor baby

couldn't sleep to save his life.

Thanks again

~

Maxwell 10 mos.

Texas

--- <xtina@...> wrote:

> I did answer this post but i dont see it anywhere....if it shows up

> again im sorry for double posting.

>

> You would need to look in the ear with an otoscope...but even if you

> did you wouldnt know unless the eardrum was all red. There is a way

> that the light reflects off the eardrum (called the " cone of

> light " ...really it is actually called that LOL). If it isnt there,

> or

> it isnt a cone shape it is a good way to tell that things arent well

> in ear-land. Also, one can see if the eardrum is retracted or

> bulging....but truthfully, i would be careful when using an otoscope

> because if it isnt held properly you can puncture the eardrum. In

> anycase, the majority of ear infections clear up completely on their

> own. The body is an amazing thing. Also, if it truly is an ear

> infection that you would have to worry about....you would likely

> know.

> They are truly, incredibly PAINFUL...ive had them once or

> twice....they really hurt!!!! YOur poor little one would be

> screaming. The worse that would happen is that the eardrum would

> rupture on its own..so you sould see blood....And most of those

> self-heal also.

> I would be careful putting anything in the ear unless you know there

>

> is no rupture. The ear drum is also very permeable and any liquid

> that you place in the eardrum will pass through to the middle ear.

> The only thing seperating the middle ear from the brain is a tough

> membrane....located above the middle ear...and the bone is very

> spongey so again, i would be worried about permeability.

> But i have also placed warm olive oil, and garlic oil in my ears and

>

> my little ones ears.

> Please...for those of you whom this post offends, please read it

> carefully because i am not trying to make any implications...honest.

>

> I am just trying to explain how this works. Thats all.

> christina

> ********************

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/01 8:36:50 PM Central Standard Time, xtina@...

writes:

<< makes no difference to me. >>

but apparently it does, because you don't like other people's experiences,

whether negative or positive, and you certainly seem to think that how we

handle our families' health concerns should revolve around your advice as an

audiologist. This is a board for everyone to share everyone's experiences.

what works for me, may not be your cup of tea, but it may work for someone

else. That's the point. Puttng down peoples' expereince and knowledge is

not a great way to handle things, and obviously it ticks people off when it's

topped off with sarcasm. When you blow off things that someone has

done/experienced and know to be true, you blow off them, and belittle the

very reason they are here- to share and find answers...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/01 8:39:55 PM Central Standard Time, xtina@...

writes:

<< Not really sure why you are getting upset with my posts...but like i

said i knew someone would....>>

Gee, I don't know , why are you always disregarding any information

I post as unadvisable and wrong?

<<.in any case i never said not to put a

warm washcloth on the ear...of course that works...as for the oil, do

what you like....i do, yet i know there is a risk with it. And,

sorry, there is no such thing as " swollen ear wax " ...not an

appreciable difference anyways.>>

Here, you're wrong, hon. When water gets in the ear, it swells the WAX. I

have medical records to prove it and several ear cleanings as well. It gets

wet, it swells. If there's a lot of wax, it irritates the canal. I know

several people, including my husband, who have swimmers ear. It is a fact.

Sorry your experience didn't give you that.

<< It does get wet and mushy, true, and

if it gets washed in with the bath water it can lay against the

eardrum...but so what...it will eventually come out of the ear or get

reabsorbed. I dont understand what you mean by the question " How do

you know the difference?? " ....im confused. I apologize if i mis-read

your statements regarding earwax and it being causally linked to ear

infections.... >>

Well, gee thanks. 15 posts later. You've misread A LOT of my posts, and

imo, you should be confused. Especially when, for instance, the question was

relative to the discussion in general... Knowing when your child has an

earache - how to treat an earache - if it isn't an earache what do you do -

etc. The only time it is dangerous to put mullein oil in the ear BTW, is

when there is a puncture. And that should be surmiseable by either blood or

pus running from the ear, I have seen both. It's possible, I suppose to have

a puncture without any obvious sign, but my common sense tells me that

something made the puncture then, and hopefully you don't have a toddler who

likes pencils - or in the least he can tell you (unlike mine) what he did.

Most parents don't have an otoscope, however, as I ALSO explained earlier,

Noto's comes with very complete instructions, including HOW TO INSERT IT.

Are you implying that most parents are too dumb to follow directions or

understand how to look at an eardrum, even with pictures of what to look for?

Perhaps we should tell them not to use the ear thermometers either, as they

go in the ear as well, and just as far as everything else I've mentioned.

Dangerous things those thermometers.

Carol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/01 8:45:09 PM Central Standard Time, xtina@...

writes:

<< ut he also

suggests that one should place a soft object in a childs mouth who is

having a seizure so that the child doesnt bite his tongue and

such.....i certainly dont agree with this.. >>

I lived through over five febrile seizures with my daughter, one requiring an

ambulance ride to emergency, and again, I disagree with you. The

instructions he gives are common sense, and every doctor we've seen including

our NDs has given the same. The last thing I need is my 2 year old biting

off her tongue. And, once not having something handy, I put my hand in her

mouth. You better believe she can bite her tongue off in the middle of a

convulsion (which sometimes comes AFTER the febrile seizure). The purpose is

only to keep them from doing harm to themselves. What is your reason for not

liking his advice? For sure, I don't know a 3yo (or anyone for that matter)

who could swallow a leather glove, and if you know one, that is in fact very

scary.

Carol

[Guest guest]

...thank you for all of the info on the ear stuff. My son has never

had an ear infection, but from the things you have posted, and others

replies, I now know alot more than I did. As far as ultrasounds and the ear,

I don't think anyone meant that they are the " sole source " of infections,

but I do believe that they could contribute to someone being more inclined

to get them.

What is ear candleing?...

Sharon, Quakertown PA

Re: OT: U/S, the ear, and ear infections

>

> > In a message dated 2/10/01 12:59:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> xtina@h...

> > writes:

> >

> >

> > > it is a good way to get meningitis for example...ive

> > > seen it happen lots of times.`

> > >

> >

> > christina,

> > you've actually seen " lots of " cases of meningitis? it's actually

> a

> > relatively rare occurance--how do you see so much of it?

> > brigit, in albany

>

> *************

>

> I work in a central hospital in toronto canada (Toronto General and

> worked at Mount Sinai at the time when i was full time) ...we get the

> referrals from all the other places when it is something serious. Im

> talking referals from all over canada...not just ontario.

> ENT departments are small in many centers that is why we get the

> serious stuff....i obviously havent seen the meningitis while in full

> swing....i see have seen them in clinic during follow up and during

> rounds.

> I have seen about 12-15 cases (i think) in a period of 5 years of

> oto-induced meningitis....anything ranging from recurrant ear

> infections (im talking their whole life....people with really nasty

> ears from repeated infections that have lasted 30 years or so of their

> lives)...to mastitis induced meningitis, to 2 cases as a direct link

> to ear candleing, etc. I worked only with adults at this time so i

> cannot comment on childrens relationship with meningitis and ear

> maladies specifically because those i have not seen....i doubt that

> they are much different though. I have not seen any cases in about 2

> years now, but i only work 2x a week now and i dont go on rounds

> anymore due to my part time status. So perhaps 15 cases or so of

> meningitis isnt alot to you, but it certainly is to me.

> I hope this answer is satisfactory....although, i find whenever i

> post anything regarding my direct experiences in the area of ears i

> get alot of flack from this group. Im not sure why, but i do find it

> disconcerting.

> in canada

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/2001 7:21:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, cpeter8743@... writes:

Puttng down peoples' expereince and knowledge is not a great way to handle things, and obviously it ticks people off when it's topped off with sarcasm. When you blow off things that someone has done/experienced and know to be true, you blow off them, and belittle the very reason they are here- to share and find answers...

I have not got this from s

posts at all. In fact I think she has been quite informative and professional.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/10/2001 7:44:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, cpeter8743@... writes:

I lived through over five febrile seizures with my daughter, one requiring an ambulance ride to emergency, and again, I disagree with you. The instructions he gives are common sense, and every doctor we've seen including our NDs has given the same. The last thing I need is my 2 year old biting off her tongue. And, once not having something handy, I put my hand in her mouth.

I am a licensed EMT and this is not standard protocol if you were to ever ride in an ambulance here in CA.

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 2/10/01 11:59:29 AM Central Standard Time,

xtina@h...

> writes:

>

> << it just in my husband's ear, >>

>

> <<It is very dangerous to place anything in the ear >>

>

> There is a difference between shoving things INTO the ear, and

placing

> something just in the ear... nothing should ever be placed into the

ear. I

> said, just in the ear. As in, no further than his ear plugs. As

in, no

> further than the q-tip I use after I've coned his ears. As in, no

further

> than the cone I use to cone his ears.

*******************

My position still stands...one should not place anything in ones

ear....be it cones/garlic/OR Q-tips.....It is just a suggestion, you

do what you want....makes no difference to me.

christina in canada

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 2/10/01 11:59:21 AM Central Standard Time,

xtina@h...

> writes:

>

> << Also...you meantion that ear infections are in the middle

ear...this

> is true...THAT is otitis media...but saying that it is linked with

wax

> production is accually innacurate...wax is produced solely in the

> OUTER ear. This is the only location of the wax glands FYI.

> >>

> You know what??? I didn't say wax production was linked to ear

infections.

> And if you read it that way, then here it is re-worded: parents may

read or

> say ear infection, because that term is thrown around alot, when in

fact all

> it is is swollen ear wax. This can occur from something as simple

as water

> getting in during a bath. How do you know the difference? Most

parents

> arent going to know the difference. But either a laying on a warm

washcloth

> or using warmed mullein oil, will almost always soothe the ear from

any kind

> of inflammation. This is MY experience, it is what I was advised to

do by

> two NDs 7 years ago, and it has always worked.

***********

Not really sure why you are getting upset with my posts...but like i

said i knew someone would.....in any case i never said not to put a

warm washcloth on the ear...of course that works...as for the oil, do

what you like....i do, yet i know there is a risk with it. And,

sorry, there is no such thing as " swollen ear wax " ...not an

appreciable difference anyways. It does get wet and mushy, true, and

if it gets washed in with the bath water it can lay against the

eardrum...but so what...it will eventually come out of the ear or get

reabsorbed. I dont understand what you mean by the question " How do

you know the difference?? " ....im confused. I apologize if i mis-read

your statements regarding earwax and it being causally linked to ear

infections....

christina in canada

[Guest guest]

Ii have already expressed my position on this statement......as for

Dr. Mendelsohn...i love the man also, and he is my hero: but he also

suggests that one should place a soft object in a childs mouth who is

having a seizure so that the child doesnt bite his tongue and

such.....i certainly dont agree with this...if you dont believe me i

can come up with the page number of his book if you like.

Just because youre AUD cant tell doesnt mean others cant....ie you

dont know what training i have nor what the rules are here in

canada regarding this....dont overgeneralise please...if you are very

interested you can refer to my answer on this statement already.

christina

> In a message dated 2/10/01 1:14:30 PM Central Standard Time,

> beebemcel@a... writes:

>

> << whether you are an audiologist or not, i don't see how anyone

> can know if a child has an infection in there?? >>

>

> ditto, and I've almost asked twice now. Even Dr. mendelsohn said

there is no

> way to tell for sure if there is an ear infection. Kids' ears can

be red

> from any number of things Cryings, stress, cold winds, etc. They

can also

> be inflamed from same, or water irritation. The audiologist my son

saw three

> times only knew about hearing and hearing loss, not ear infections.

She

> could guess that a previous ear infection may have caused a hearing

loss, but

> she isn't able to diagnose nor was she trained to.