RE: My swap from Cynomel to NHS/Goldshield Liothyronine has not gone well

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:38:47 -0000, you wrote:

>

>My temps and pulse are stable since the change, so I can come up with no other

explanation for feeling yucky, unless I've caught a virus, and I don't feel like

I have.

Thanks for the update, it has a reputation of being weak and it looks

like you are confirming that.

If you can see whether a higher dose works and if so what then that

would be a useful statistic. There is a theory that a lot of the

differences are changes in absorption caused by differing fillers and

hence it varies between people.

Nick

[Guest guest]

Nick, thanks for replying.

What would you suggest I try next, once I have restabilised myself on Cynomel

only? My GP can only prescribe 60 mcg a day of the Goldshield, but I've got the

next prescription made up today, so what with having a supply of Cynomel as

well, I have room for a little experimentation.

So do I swap from 3 x 25 mcg Cynomel to 4 x 20mcg Goldshield T3?

Or drop to 2 x 25 mcg Cynomel and add in 3 x 20mcg Goldshield T3?

1 x Cynomel plus 3 x 20 mcg Goldshield is what hasn't worked.

I was so overjoyed that my GP would prescribe it for me, I didn't see this

coming and it's a naffing nuisance! If the Goldshield is that weak, it's almost

not worth my while taking it!!!

Thanks again

>

> Thanks for the update, it has a reputation of being weak and it looks

> like you are confirming that.

>

> If you can see whether a higher dose works and if so what then that

> would be a useful statistic. There is a theory that a lot of the

> differences are changes in absorption caused by differing fillers and

> hence it varies between people.

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:54:21 -0000, you wrote:

>What would you suggest I try next, once I have restabilised myself on Cynomel

only? My GP can only prescribe 60 mcg a day of the Goldshield, but I've got the

next prescription made up today, so what with having a supply of Cynomel as

well, I have room for a little experimentation.

Get yourself stable on the 75 again with stable and correct

temperatures.

Go onto 2 Cynomel and 30 of the Goldshield, play with it from there to

find out how much Goldshield replaces 25 of Cynomel, whether it's 30

or more.

Once you have successfully replaced 1 of the cynomel then do the same

with another.

By staying on the 2 cynomel while you experiment you are reducing the

amount of variability

Keep it spread through the day of course.

Nick

[Guest guest]

,

I took the goldshield stuff for ages on it's own, then I bought some cynomel

25mcg. For me the cynomel is more harsh, If I'm not feeling great I

stick with Goldshield for the day.

Generally what I do is mix the two together in a container and then take a

couple a day. (as well as NT). This means that some days I get Goldshield,

some days cynomel and some days a mixture. I rarely actually check which one

I'm taking, based on 'what I don't know won't hurt'. I've also used the

Indian T3 (made by Geneza?)with no adverse effects.

(I do a mix on the NDT too, betwen erfa and naturethroid.)

I know some people will be horrified by my attitude to mixing them up, but I

really don't intend to get stuck with just one brand if I can possibly avoid it,

that way i can cope with shortages etc....

If, as Nick says the differences are caused by different fillers, then I may be

good at absorption because I use Betaine HCL to increase stomach acid. Have

you considered this?

xx

>

>

>

> Nick, thanks for replying.

>

> What would you suggest I try next, once I have restabilised myself on Cynomel

only?

>

[Guest guest]

Yay! Thanks Nick!!!! I hadn't thought of taking 1.5 of the 20 mcg Goldshield

to see if that equals 25mcg Cynomel. I will give it a week or two back on

Cynomel only before I try that.

If it is an absorption problem, could this be got around by crushing the tablet

to a powder and taking it sublingually?

Thanks again!

>

> Get yourself stable on the 75 again with stable and correct

> temperatures.

>

> Go onto 2 Cynomel and 30 of the Goldshield, play with it from there to

> find out how much Goldshield replaces 25 of Cynomel, whether it's 30

> or more.

>

> Once you have successfully replaced 1 of the cynomel then do the same

> with another.

>

> By staying on the 2 cynomel while you experiment you are reducing the

> amount of variability

>

> Keep it spread through the day of course.

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , thanks for your reply

Blimey! I wouldn't say I'm horrified at your approach to mixing your tablets,

that's a brave way of doing it though. What if you inadvertently get only one

brand of tablet for a few days? I guess if you are taking NT as well, it's not

a problem. As I am on T3 only, it would be a problem for me - it took only 6

days for me to get my hypo symptoms back on the Goldshield T3, which frightens

me somewhat.

Interesting that you find the Cynomel harsher. That would also confirm that the

Goldshield T3 is indeed weaker.

Thank you for the reminder about the Betaine HCL - we spoke about this at the

Birmingham meet and I hadn't got round to buying any. I'm not sure whether I

need it or not. How would I know?

I'm thinking of crushing the Goldshield T3 and taking it sublingually next time

round to see if that helps absorption. My goodness, sublingually is not an easy

word to type when you are still slightly brain-fogged! However, one day back on

Cynomel only is already making a difference.

Can you please let me have the link for the Betaine HCL that you buy? PM me if

you prefer to do it that way - not sure if it would be considered advertising if

posted on the forum?

Many thanks

x

>

> ,

>

> I took the goldshield stuff for ages on it's own, then I bought some cynomel

25mcg. For me the cynomel is more harsh, If I'm not feeling great I

stick with Goldshield for the day.

>

> Generally what I do is mix the two together in a container and then take a

couple a day. (as well as NT). This means that some days I get Goldshield,

some days cynomel and some days a mixture. I rarely actually check which one

I'm taking, based on 'what I don't know won't hurt'. I've also used the

Indian T3 (made by Geneza?)with no adverse effects.

>

> (I do a mix on the NDT too, betwen erfa and naturethroid.)

>

> I know some people will be horrified by my attitude to mixing them up, but I

really don't intend to get stuck with just one brand if I can possibly avoid it,

that way i can cope with shortages etc....

>

> If, as Nick says the differences are caused by different fillers, then I may

be good at absorption because I use Betaine HCL to increase stomach acid.

Have you considered this?

>

> xx

>

[Guest guest]

,

Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lamberts-Betaine-HCl-Pepsin-180-Caps-Digestive-Aid-NEW-/25\

0498621791?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements & hash=item3a52e1a15f

It's lamberts brand that I buy, just type in Betaine hcl into ebay if the link

doesn't work. I know Ian on here buys a much heavier duty brand, but he seems

to go for most things heavy duty!

The test.... first thing in the morning, half a teaspoon of bicarbinate of

soda mixed in a cup of tepid water, drink it before you have anything else.

If you burp within a very short time, then acid ok, more than 5 mins: acid

low, not at all: rubbish.

Good luck!

x

>

>

> Thank you for the reminder about the Betaine HCL - we spoke about this at the

Birmingham meet and I hadn't got round to buying any. I'm not sure whether I

need it or not. How would I know?

>

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, thanks for the link for the Betaine and the instructions for the test.

I will try this one morning soon - I can feel my face screwing up with distaste

at the bicarb already!

x

>> The test.... first thing in the morning, half a teaspoon of bicarbinate of

soda mixed in a cup of tepid water, drink it before you have anything else.

If you burp within a very short time, then acid ok, more than 5 mins: acid

low, not at all: rubbish.

[Guest guest]

Hi , Not everybody responds to every meds the same- that's why there is a fuss about most NHS meds being generics- some just don't work the same as the more expensive originals- the active ingredient may be the same ,but there are differences in the fillers that can have an effect on how it is absorbed. Try taking on an empty stomach, drinking a vit C drink with it? T3 usually absorbs without needing an empty stomach. > Subject: My swap from Cynomel to NHS/Goldshield Liothyronine has not gone well> > Hi all> > Six days ago I finally made the swap from Mexican Cynomel to the Goldshield Liothyronine prescribed by my GP.> > I replaced the 75mcg Cynomel I was taking with 60mcg Goldshield Liothyronine, and then added 25 mcg Cynomel as I felt I was in need of a raise, since I was not completely better on the Cynomel dose. > > Far from benefitting from the swap/raise, I have started to feel very hypo again. I am sleeping in later in the mornings (I'm currently > > I had to have a blood test done this morning, so had left off the last two doses yesterday, and felt awful this morning - > > ?> > x> > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

Hi

I will try that, as I have Vit C in powder form.

Would crushing the T3 tablet to a powder and taking it sublingually be effective

too, do you think?

Thanks

>

>

> Try taking on an empty stomach, drinking a vit C drink with it? T3 usually

absorbs without needing an empty stomach.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

T3 is not designed to be taken sublingually. You should swallow

that and its effect starts very rapidly.

Luv

- Sheila

Would crushing the T3 tablet to a powder and taking it sublingually be

effective too, do you think?

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:34:27 +0100, you wrote:

>

>T3 is not designed to be taken sublingually. You should swallow that and its

>effect starts very rapidly.

Experience has found that it can be successfully taken this way if you

have trouble scheduling iron or calcium as well as multidosing T3.

The Grossman seems well absorbed like that, I don't know about the

others.

Nick

[Guest guest]

,

That worked for me remember.......stupidly stopped doing it that way but will be

doing it that way from now on.

Love Tess

>

>

> Hi Sheila,

> Yes we know this, but says the new brand isn't working

and we are trying to find some way to make it work better, however illogical!

>

*******Old messages cut by moderator...***********

Shame on you!

[Guest guest]

Hi Tess and South, and thanks for your confirmation that taking the T3

sublingually may help the absorption. I'll be trying that in about a week or so

and will report back in due course.

x

>

>

> >

> > Would crushing the T3 tablet to a powder and taking it sublingually be

effective too, do you think?

> >

>

> Hi , I have always taken my T3 sublingually and I absorb it better

> than if I swallowed it!! It disolves ok under the tongue.

> South.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nick - we learn every day. I will remember this in

future. Perhaps if the tablets were ground up they would be absorbed even

better, or would there be a problem in doing this?

luv - Sheila

>

>T3 is not designed to be taken sublingually. You should swallow that and

its

>effect starts very rapidly.

Experience has found that it can be successfully taken this way if you

have trouble scheduling iron or calcium as well as multidosing T3.

The Grossman seems well absorbed like that, I don't know about the

others.

[Guest guest]

OK , I understand is going to try this sublingually

so I hope it works. Also, there may be other associated conditions going along

that is stopping it working, and these need to be tested for and treated

accordingly before the thyroid hormone can get into her cells. These are

adrenal fatigue, systemic candidiasis, mercury poisoning caused through amalgam

fillings, low ferritin, B12, D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc. If thyroid

hormone isn't working, there is usually a reason why - and some investigations

must be done.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila,

Yes we know this, but says the new brand isn't working and we are trying

to find some way to make it work better, however illogical!

Would crushing the T3 tablet to a powder and taking it sublingually be

effective too, do you think?

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[Guest guest]

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:43:15 +0100, you wrote:

>Thanks Nick - we learn every day. I will remember this in future. Perhaps if

>the tablets were ground up they would be absorbed even better, or would

>there be a problem in doing this?

Crunching them between my teeth works for me, if you crushed them

externally you might lose powder

Nick

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

There seems to be a little bit of confusion here. I swapped from Mexican

Cynomel T3 which was working well, over to Goldshield T3 prescribed by my GP and

which didn't seem to be working at all. See my original post for more info, but

it's not a case of other associated conditions, just a difference between two

brands of T3.

x

>

> OK , I understand is going to try this sublingually so I hope it

> works. Also, there may be other associated conditions going along that is

> stopping it working, and these need to be tested for and treated accordingly

> before the thyroid hormone can get into her cells.

[Guest guest]

Apologies and thanks for putting me straight - I had

misread your message and now understand.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila

There seems to be a little bit of confusion here. I swapped from Mexican

Cynomel T3 which was working well, over to Goldshield T3 prescribed by my GP

and which didn't seem to be working at all. See my original post for more info,

but it's not a case of other associated conditions, just a difference between

two brands of T3.

x

>

> OK , I understand is going to try this sublingually so I hope

it

> works. Also, there may be other associated conditions going along that is

> stopping it working, and these need to be tested for and treated

accordingly

> before the thyroid hormone can get into her cells.

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

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[Guest guest]

Hi yvonne, That's why I suggested crushing and vitC as that helped those who were having filler problems with the change in recipe for Armour, so that it may work here. Await news with interest! > thyroid treatment > From: yrj2@...> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:50:34 +0000> Subject: Re: My swap from Cynomel to NHS/Goldshield Liothyronine has not gone well> > Hi Sheila> > There seems to be a little bit of confusion here. I swapped from Mexican Cynomel T3 which was working well, over to Goldshield T3 prescribed by my GP and which didn't seem to be working at all. See my original post for more info, but it's not a case of other associated conditions, just a difference between two brands of T3.> > x> > > >> > OK , I understand is going to try this sublingually so I hope it> > works. Also, there may be other associated conditions going along that is> > stopping it working, and these need to be tested for and treated accordingly> > before the thyroid hormone can get into her cells. > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

Hi all

I popped into my surgery to get my thyroid test results today. The receptionist

looked on the computer and said " the doctor wants to see you " . I asked for a

print-out of the test results, and had to suppress a smile when I saw them.

Bear in mind, this is after a few days on the Goldshield T3 when I had already

gone downhill and got my hypo symptoms back. I had not taken any T3 since

lunchtime the day before the blood sample was taken.

TSH < 0.01 (0.35 - 4.94) " Abnormal "

FT4 < 5 (9.0 - 19.0) " Abnormal "

FT3 5.30 (2.63 - 5.70)

I can't actually see anything wrong with the results for someone who is on T3

only - the suppressed FT4 is only to be expected, isn't it? I would be

grateful for any comments.

I haven't tried the crushing and swap-back yet, as I've got my appeal meeting at

work on Thursday morning and need to be on best form for that.

x

>

>

> Hi yvonne,

> That's why I suggested crushing and vitC as that helped those

who were having filler problems with the change in recipe for Armour, so that it

may work here. Await news with interest!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , your

free T4 is a little too low and you might benefit from using just 25mcgs. We

still need some T4 for the brain so get your level up a bit. Ask your GP why it

would be expected that your thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) should be higher,

when it is obvious that your body is now getting the active hormone it needs? There

is no need for your pituitary gland to be secreting any TSH whatsoever. These

are very normal results for anybody taking any form of T3, either synthetic or

natural. Our bodies need T3, and not T4. Don't allow him or anybody else to

tell you to cut down your dose or to stop the T3 if you are feeling better,

because over the years, I have seen doctors do this, only for their patients to

sink lower and lower and become ill again.

Tell him that he

should LISTEN to you and WORK with you - and not do everything he can to get

what he thinks are the right numbers on a bit of paper.

luv - Sheila

I popped into my surgery to get my thyroid test results today. The receptionist

looked on the computer and said " the doctor wants to see you " . I

asked for a print-out of the test results, and had to suppress a smile when I

saw them.

Bear in mind, this is after a few days on the Goldshield T3 when I had already

gone downhill and got my hypo symptoms back. I had not taken any T3 since

lunchtime the day before the blood sample was taken.

TSH < 0.01 (0.35 - 4.94) " Abnormal "

FT4 < 5 (9.0 - 19.0) " Abnormal "

FT3 5.30 (2.63 - 5.70)

I can't actually see anything wrong with the results for someone who is on T3

only - the suppressed FT4 is only to be expected, isn't it? I would be grateful

for any comments.

I haven't tried the crushing and swap-back yet, as I've got my appeal meeting

at work on Thursday morning and need to be on best form for that.

x

>

>

> Hi yvonne,

> That's why I suggested crushing and vitC as that helped those who were

having filler problems with the change in recipe for Armour, so that it may

work here. Await news with interest!

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

To be honest, I don't want to go back on to T4. Dr P got me on to T3 in

conjuction with NatureThroid, and from there over to T3 alone. I'm probably not

converting and think that the T4 built up in my blood stream, giving me symptoms

of toxicity despite still being hypo.

My GP is a nice lady, who was willing to monitor me on Armour/NT so long as I

knew what I was doing, and then subsequently to prescribe T3 alone for me. She

probably just wants to check that I know what I'm doing with T3. In fact, it

may not have even been her that checked the test result and requested that I

come in for an appointment.

In the event that she did stop prescribing T3, I'll just go back to taking

Mexican Cynomel - this is the best I've felt in the last 3 years. I'm so close

to the magical 12 weeks clearance zone too!

Thanks

x

>

> Hi , your free T4 is a little too low and you might benefit from using

> just 25mcgs.

[Guest guest]

Hi , As you say- perfectly normal for someone on T3 alone! That range for FT3 is very 'short' -in my area Ft3 goes 3.5 to7.0 so you may well need a bit more- which is why you are feeling below par- hope the meeting goes well. > thyroid treatment > From: yrj2@...> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:23:46 +0000> Subject: Re: My swap from Cynomel to NHS/Goldshield Liothyronine has not gone well> > > > Hi all> > I popped into my surgery to get my thyroid test results today. The receptionist looked on the computer and said "the doctor wants to see you". I asked for a print-out of the test results, and had to suppress a smile when I saw them.> > Bear in mind, this is after a few days on the Goldshield T3 when I had already gone downhill and got my hypo symptoms back. I had not taken any T3 since lunchtime the day before the blood sample was taken. > > > TSH < 0.01 (0.35 - 4.94) "Abnormal"> > FT4 < 5 (9.0 - 19.0) "Abnormal"> > FT3 5.30 (2.63 - 5.70)> > > I can't actually see anything wrong with the results for someone who is on T3 only - the suppressed FT4 is only to be expected, isn't it? I would be grateful for any comments.> > I haven't tried the crushing and swap-back yet, as I've got my appeal meeting at work on Thursday morning and need to be on best form for that.> > x> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

I said I'd report back and here it is: second attempt at the T3 swap over...

As of Sunday, I swapped from 75mcg Cynomel, to 50 mcg Cynomel plus 30 mcg

Goldshield Liothyronine. This is being crunched up and dissolved sublingually.

Monday afternoon, come 4 p.m. I couldn't be doing with doing anything. I had

had my appeal meeting at work last week, which lasted FOUR hours, and left me

feeling very stressed. What with that and the clocks going back, I was trying

to tell myself I should be tired.

This morning, Tuesday, it was all I could do to get going. Ok, so I'm at home

still and haven't exactly got much to get going for, but I feel brain fogged and

tired. I eventually walked up to the High Street for some fresh veg, but

walking back was strange - I felt detached from reality. By 1.30 p.m. I felt

like I wanted to doze off on the sofa.

So tomorrow I will swap back to all Cynomel for another few days, then some time

next week I'll try replacing one 25 mcg Cynomel with 40 mcg of the Goldshield.

Sigh!

x

>

> Hi Tess and South, and thanks for your confirmation that taking the T3

sublingually may help the absorption. I'll be trying that in about a week or so

and will report back in due course.

>

> x

>