Re: Are vitamins making us worse

November 29, 2010

Well i have not seen any change in the vitamins i take and will be stopping them

when they run out. They may work for some, but i cannot say i have noticed any

difference.

>

> HI ALL

> Have just seen this article, and for myself I think its correct, as vitamins

and even vitamin D like I was prescribed did not improve my health.

> What do you all think of it.

> Kathleen

>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1333882/Vitamins-pills-actually-make-s\

ick.html?ITO=1490

>

November 29, 2010

Actually I think it's a pile of the proverbial!!!

I'm not surprised many folks don't " feel better " on " vitamins " .

Most are taking low doses of inactive, difficult to absorb vits & minerals.

The " studies " reporting supps/vits are useless are designed to fail (using

inactive forms, low doses, not using cofactors, far too short a period, careful

" selection " of participants, failing to properly test Thyroid, Adrenals etc).

I have yet to find ANY multi-vit that is worth taking at all.

Multi B's are good IF they are quality active forms & in sufficient quantities.

I have spent many years studying & taking vits, mins & hormones.

I research EACH one for the most potent, bioactive & absorbable form made by a

reputable company with the minimum amount of fillers, etc.

Also for most vits & mins there is no point taking anything without first

testing to establish a need. Certainly this is true for the fat soluble vits

A,D,E,K & for all hormones. Then you need to monitor levels too (Vit D, Calcium,

Magnesium, Folate, Potassium, etc) & ensure you are optimal.

Certainly in MY Country Australia THERE ARE VIRTUALLY NO DECENT VITS/MINS

available at all. Hence I import the majority I & other 3 family members take.

Examples of mistakes folks make...

-taking Betacarotene instead of actual Vit A (Retinyl Palmitate)

-using Ergocalciferol D2 instead of Cholecalciferol D3

-failing to take cofactors eg. Vit D3 should also be supped with Vits A,E & K2 &

need optimal Magnesium to correctly utilise Vit D

-failing to optimise Magnesium & testing Serum Magnesium instead of RBC

Magnesium, taking oral Magnesium is pretty useless at optimising cellular

Magnesium

-COQ10 taking Ubiquinone instead of Ubiquinol

-Omega 3's failing to take a quality, toxin/heavy metal free, sufficient

quantityof DHA/EPA Fish Oil, taking Omega 3's that are either goitragenic or

otherwise undesirable & that contain NO DHA/EPA (Flax Seed/Oil, Evening Primrose

Oil, etc)

-failing to properly test, monitor & optimise electrolytes (Sodium, Potassium,

Calcium, Magnesium)

-levels, transdermal Magnesium is far superior (providing quality, pure product

is used)

-B12 failure to properly test, monitor & optimise, taking ORAL tabs instead of

sublingual, taking Cyano instead of active forms, failure to take Folate or

failure to take active real Folate, failure to take active MultiB as well, etc

-doing incorrect test for Folate, Serum Folate instead of RBC Folate, taking

FOLIC ACID instead of REAL Folate forms

-failure to properly test Iron Status (full Iron Panel, Ferritin, CBC,

inflammatory markers) & follow correct testing protocols

-failure to properly support Liver function

-Vit E failure to take sufficient amount, not taking natural form, not taking

Soy Free, not taking all 8 forms (Tocopherols & Tocotrienals)

-taking Calcium unnecessarily, when often it is Calcium METABOLISM that is the

issue

-taking far too high doses of Vit C causing deficiencies in other vits (eg.B6)

-failure to look closely at all meds taken, their interactions, their side

effects (antihistamines, pain meds, antidepressants, antianxiety, BP meds,

Diuretics, BCP's, synthetic hormone HRT)

-failure to closely examine diet (Goitragens, stimulants like Caffeine, Alcohol,

Fluoride in Tea & water, refined carbs, high sugar)

I could go on.

Vits & Mins are powerful if used correctly.

Lethal Lee

>

> HI ALL

> Have just seen this article, and for myself I think its correct, as vitamins

and even vitamin D like I was prescribed did not improve my health.

> What do you all think of it.

> Kathleen

>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1333882/Vitamins-pills-actually-make-s\

ick.html?ITO=1490

>

November 29, 2010

Hi all,

I don't agree with people overdosing on multiple vitamins without knowing what they are deficient in - but I actually saved my life when I had Lupus and I refused to take drugs for it - and just fed myself with the relevant vitamins needed as each symptom which included hashimoto's symptoms came and went. Sorry they do work - the problem is most people aren't taking therapuetic doses or are taking such doses when they don't need them and are possibly poisoning their systems. If you don't have tests to see your deficiencies then you could actually knock yourself out of balance and make yourself worse - if you dont take enough - you wont feel anything.

Even my Lupus consultant was amazed at what I did for myself - I had what they call sticky blood too and had I not known that Vitamin E thinned the blood and took it when I felt as though my blood was sticky again I would have had a stroke.

Without vitamins and minerals I would have died and that is no exaggeration.

Kind regards

Mandy

November 29, 2010

Hmm, I wonder who's behind this? So we don't take vitamins and then what, oh

yes, we'll take drugs instead, as vitamins can't make money for drug companies.

follow the money. heaven forbid a person should self treat and get better - how

will the drug copmanies make their money then. a vitamin will only treat a

vitamin deficiency, so i don't see how - if they don't work - they'll cause

harm. if something didn't work for something, it could be because maybe it's

not the only thing missing. if you have 5 things wrong with your car: tyres,

brakes, steering, sunroof, oil, do you think that just by changing the oil that

it will solve the other 4 issues? why would vitamins be any different.

" While many of the supplements he looked at appeared to be harmless, they hadn't

actually been shown in any major, placebo-controlled study to do any particular

good; others, like St 's Wort, might be helpful in some cases for some

people, but can easily interfere with and negate the effects of a large number

of prescribed medicines "

which vitamin companies can afford to spend millions on major, clinical trials?

if they were proved to work, how would they get their money back?

doesn't this tie in rather well with codex alimentarius or whatever it's called?

consider the bigger picture. whoever pays the piper calls the tune (that is,

whoever pays for the research study gets the outcome they want)

these are the same kind of people who knock NDT etc, saying it's no good, no

proof it works etc etc.

chris

>

> HI ALL

> Have just seen this article, and for myself I think its correct, as vitamins

and even vitamin D like I was prescribed did not improve my health.

> What do you all think of it.

> Kathleen

>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1333882/Vitamins-pills-actually-make-s\

ick.html?ITO=1490

>

November 29, 2010

Hi

I've just had a read and was looking to hear what points they were making about

whay vitamins make us sick and I only read claims that they don't work - unless

I missed it that is.

Lv

>

> HI ALL

> Have just seen this article, and for myself I think its correct, as vitamins

and even vitamin D like I was prescribed did not improve my health.

> What do you all think of it.

> Kathleen

>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1333882/Vitamins-pills-actually-make-s\

ick.html?ITO=1490

>

November 29, 2010

Hi all -well I had BP going under a 100 (when it had previously been about 140 ]

and postural hypertension [bP -falling 20 points on standing ] .I've only been

on NAX for a few months and now BP is back up to 125 . So vits and mins did have

a good effect. Best wishes

November 29, 2010

HI ANDREA

The reasson that I gleaned in how they can make you sick is if you are ill and

off ones food, and don't forget FOOD THAT WE EAT IS OUR VITAMINS ETC. Should we

go go on taking vitamin pills if we are off our food? Could this in fact be

natures way of healing us by means of a natural detox. Sometimes we go off

certain foods, but we would not have this sense with consuming vitamins in pill

form. Sometimes one feels the need to take a certain food, but would one have

this sense with a vitamin pill.

I have floundered every time I have taken vitamin pills including vitamin D. For

vitamin C to protect against infection it has to be taken in very large

quantities and in turn can cause an upset stomach.

Most vitamins are labelled that one should not take them instead of food, which

can ring true if off ones food due to ill health.

Kathleen

>

> Hi

>

> I've just had a read and was looking to hear what points they were making

about whay vitamins make us sick and I only read claims that they don't work -

unless I missed it that is.

>

> Lv

>

November 29, 2010

Hi,

I think that there is a campaign to rubbish vitamins, with tests and trials

coming to negative conclusions due to using synthetic vitamins and low doses in

order to persuade us that there is no benefits in using them. They are food in

a capsule, and I believe that it will good to take things that your diet is not

providing, but better to eat the foods if possible. Big pharma would not see

vitamins and minerals as a threat if they did not offer an alternative to drugs,

and the use of vitamin B12 seems to have worried the GMC. If the vitamin D did

not work for you I wonder if you took vitamin D2 which needs to be converted

within the body, or was it the active form of vitamin D3 that is recommended by

the vitamin D Council? What level of vitamin D did you manage to reach when you

supplemented? Personally I feel that taking fish oil and vitamins and minerals

has improved my health and I am very pleased with what I have managed to achieve

by using them, and even more pleased that I no longer need to take drugs with

nasty side effects.

love Janet

>

November 29, 2010

HI JANET

At first my GP prescribed Calcichew which also has calcium carbonate in it, but

I did try and tell him of my problems with calcium carbonate, but he would not

listen. Had I known that they also contained Sorbital and Aspartame I would have

suggested that he take them. I did try them but hit problems and the OUT OF

HOURS advised me to stop taking them.

I then bought my own multivitamin and vegetarian D3. I went up to 3000iu with

vitamin D3, and got worse.

I decided to stop all medication including thyroxine as I felt so bad.

My CPN took me to my GP as she too had been concerned. I took my pills with me

that I had been taking, and he advised me not to take any more and is carrying

out further tests. If these draw a blank its a refferal to a rheumatologist, as

the pain may be caused by fibromyalgia bought on by the fall that I had on the

bus in June.

I feel better in myself, and my hair has stopped falling out, so whats wrong

with thyroxine. I am going to wait and see what the blood tests say before

resuming thyroxine. I ommitted to inform my GP that I had stopped taking

thyroxine, so this will be interesting to see the result.

I may start using my infrared lamp to see what that achieves now.

Kathleen

November 29, 2010

HI all,

Yes they are being rubbished for a reason - I have had several e mail 'rows' with the Daily Mail nutritionist who has written several articles about - 'you can get all you need from you food' - absolute rubbish - particularly if like me you do not absorb your vits and minerals.

I am 62 and look much younger according to others - I have been seriously ill for over 16 years - I have no wrinkles - smoked like a trouper (some 50 cigarettes a day at one time - stopped in 2000) because I have been taking vits and minerals since I was 19 years of age - in fact I was told by a consultant that it is a good job I did because I was not abosrbing anything relevant and would have died. So I will not have it that they dont work - people use them incorrectly and take either too much or too little.

best wishes

Mandy

November 30, 2010

>> follow the money. heaven forbid a person should self treat and get better -

how will the drug copmanies make their money then. a vitamin will only treat a

vitamin deficiency, so i don't see how - if they don't work - they'll cause

harm. if something didn't work for something, it could be because maybe it's

not the only thing missing. if you have 5 things wrong with your car: tyres,

brakes, steering, sunroof, oil, do you think that just by changing the oil that

it will solve the other 4 issues? why would vitamins be any different.

yes, follow the money, you are absolutely right chris!

following the money/bias trail of people such as the paid biggot ben goldacre

can be revealing ...ben g's mentor is a psychiatrist who has (at the very least)

huge *EGO* invested in his pet theories about chronic fatigue/me which one could

speculate was part of the reason the goldacre cabal contrived the complaints

against dr myhill. these ignorant people are very dangerous imo.

how are you doing chris? what is next ...i thought i picked up that you have

changed gp but i may have got that wrong!

best wishes ...hope you are keeping warm..the snow in the uk looks beautiful but

is extra stressful also:)

trish

>

> Hmm, I wonder who's behind this? So we don't take vitamins and then what, oh

yes, we'll take drugs instead, as vitamins can't make money for drug companies.

November 30, 2010

Hi Mandy, look at this about soil depletion-http://wwwtjclark.com.au/colliidal-minerals-library/soil-depletion.htm72% lost in the last 100 years. Angel.

November 30, 2010

>

> HI JANET

> At first my GP prescribed Calcichew which also has calcium carbonate in it,

but I did try and tell him of my problems with calcium carbonate, but he would

not listen. Had I known that they also contained Sorbital and Aspartame I would

have suggested that he take them.

If you try and get into the habit of researching any drugs or supplements online

before you take them (your body is a temple!) you will be safer and feel

better.

I did try them but hit problems and the OUT OF HOURS advised me to stop taking

them.

> I then bought my own multivitamin and vegetarian D3. I went up to 3000iu with

vitamin D3, and got worse.

I believe you need to take the vitamin D3 with magnesium as you use up more of

it when you have to process vitamin D, that is from both supplements and the

sun. If you have a deficiency of magnesium and then take vitamin D you can get

ill. What I meant to ask was not what dose were you taking but what is your

level of vitamin D in a blood test? You need to reach a good level to feel the

difference, but you need to monitor it with blood tests to make sure that you

are within the recommended range. Take a look at the 'vitamin d council' online

as they are the experts.

>

> I feel better in myself, and my hair has stopped falling out, so whats wrong

with thyroxine.

Thyroxine is fine for lots of people, and there is nothing wrong with it unless

you are one of the unfortunates who cannot get well on it, but even so many

people would prefer to take armour as it makes them feel better than the

thyroxine.

I wonder if the paleo diet might help you as it has been very good for me, it

takes a bit of getting used to but I have gradually altered the way I eat and

find it has improved my health. I started by giving up sugars and grains of

every description, other than the odd cheat now and again. There is lots of

info online about that as well as books.

love janet

November 30, 2010

Hi Trish

i wish these paid bigots would be more open minded and just look at things and

accept that some are helped by them. i agree with you, these poeple are very

dangerous in different ways: people listen to them, are discouraged from trying

to help themselves and rely on say CFS being all in the mind. in so many ways

it's not good.

i am ok thanks for asking Trish; ok i have a referral back to the good private

endo, waiting to see him. tomorrow am i get some more blood tests, the good

endo should then have all of the tests he needs now (apart from mri and gene

testing) to make or exclude a diagnosis. he's just in a different class to the

nhs one i saw, much more learned and open minded i think. the nhs one was

useless, i took 2 pages of symptoms, many of them phsyical, and i came out with

no diagnosis, nothing. nhs dr agreed taht yes, i might have metabolic syndrome,

and yes, i might benefit from testosterone trial, but he can't help with eitehr,

as he's not expert in these things and in his letter to my gp he wrote that i

was " very well aware " [sic] that the key to managing metabolic syndrome is to

lose weight! and my response to that is the nhs dr is very well aware i have

major blood sugar fluctations and a lot of problems with needing to eat regular,

and without enough testosterone, i can't maintain, let alone build muscle, nor

do i have much of an exercise tolerance. he should also be very well aware that

low testosterone can cause and or exacerbate metabolic syndrome. he also said

there wasn't really any tests for met syndrome, which isn't true. oh and he's

made his dept look useless - they messed up the first test, gave me the wrong

results for the 2nd test, then gave me the right results, then enndo himself

said they'd lost the results, then i get a phone call from a nurse saying no

they've found them now, and i get a copy in the post. you couldn't make it up!

the prvt endo came up with quite a few differential diagnoses, which all could

more or less fit, but the nhs one just says 'lose weight' and gives no

diagnosis, implies it's 'depression' (prozac deficiency!)- the difference in

care/interest/knowledge/treatment is enormous.

so i will get the fasting glucose, 9am testosterone level, ferritin, fsh, lh,

and heamatochromatis (sp!) test, and will then hopefully see prvt endo in the

next couple of weeks. i just need to get these last results, i'm not sure how

long they'll take to come through.

you're right about changing gp - i took a gamble and tried another gp in the

practice, he's a sort of no nonsense type, but he's agreed to do the tests that

prvt dr wanted, whereas the other gp in the practice wouldn't do them.he's not

quibbled anything i've asked. i wrote to this other gp as he was the last dr

i saw (he gave me the emergency hc after the nurse phoned him to say i needed

it) to ask for re-referral and to tell him what had gone on asked him to please

do the tests so i can see the prvt endo and he agreed. it might be that he's

more helpful generally or it might be that he's realised i've been messed about

so much over the last 6 months, or maybe it's just because mosft of the tests

the prvt dr wanted have now been done (and some were specialist like synacthen)

which prob couldn't have been done at the surgery.

so we shall see. i have been feelign better for taking supplements taht are

supposed to help with insulin resistance (chromium, cinnnamon, dha) - quite a

lot better in fact, still got issues i suspect are related to low Tstosterone

tho. but then it may not be anything to do with the insulin stuff as to why i

feel better, it could equally be that i'm not dependent on and waiting on the

NHS who really don't care: it's a big relief to be re referred to someone good.

i wish in fact i'd stayed with the prvt dr 6 months ago, but the tests would

have cost about 2k, which i didn't have at the time, i've had about 1k 's worth

of tests done, so maybe if i have to have an mri or gene test i can do that

later on. so, strangely, i actually feel ok these last few days.

thanks for asking

chris

>

> following the money/bias trail of people such as the paid biggot ben goldacre

can be revealing ...ben g's mentor is a psychiatrist who has (at the very least)

huge *EGO* invested in his pet theories about chronic fatigue/me which one could

speculate was part of the reason the goldacre cabal contrived the complaints

against dr myhill. these ignorant people are very dangerous imo.

>

> how are you doing chris? what is next ...i thought i picked up that you have

changed gp but i may have got that wrong!

December 1, 2010

Correct link is

http://www.tjclark.com.au/colloidal-minerals-library/soil-depletion.htm

> http://wwwtjclark.com.au/colliidal-minerals-library/soil-depletion.htm

> 72% lost in the last 100 years.

December 1, 2010

Hi

I am not sure if you are a man or a woman sorry?

But your problems with fatigue, exercise intolerance and insulin issues could be low growth hormone - IGF1 - I have the same - the weight will not come off as IGF1 is the hormone that makes muscle and allows the body to lose weight.

Ask someone for a test to show your IGF1 levels.

You can make more growth hormone by sleeping by 10.00p.m. (like all hormones they are made around 11.00 p.m. ish) and exercise - do as much as you can.

Being too high on thyroid hormone can result in your IGF1 levels being used up too quickly and can result in depletion. I am not saying this is the be all and end all of your issues but this could be a major one.

Hope this helps

Best wishes

Mandy

December 1, 2010

Hi Mandy, you are correct. read this article and check

out the detail with your 'good' endocrinologist to get his views. I found it fascinating. Thyroid Hormone + Growth Hormone http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/thyroid-and-growth-hormone.htm

Luv - Sheila

I

am not sure if you are a man or a woman sorry?

But

your problems with fatigue, exercise intolerance and insulin issues could be

low growth hormone - IGF1 - I have the same - the weight will not come off as

IGF1 is the hormone that makes muscle and allows the body to lose weight.

Ask

someone for a test to show your IGF1 levels.

You

can make more growth hormone by sleeping by 10.00p.m. (like all hormones they

are made around 11.00 p.m. ish) and exercise - do as much as you can.

Being

too high on thyroid hormone can result in your IGF1 levels being used up too

quickly and can result in depletion. I am not saying this is the be all

and end all of your issues but this could be a major one.

.._,___

December 1, 2010

Hi Mandy

I'm a man, 31

well the prvt endo suspected low GH, but i tested for IGF-1, and one result was

midrange, but another was 5 points over range, i think 41, top end of range was

36. i don't know what to make of it really. i gather high insulin levels can

increase igf-1, too? if so, that might explain why i was over range, as i have

blood sugar issues to - insulin resistance?

i have no symptoms of excess GH tho, so don't know why GH was over range on one

test

thanks

chris

>

> Hi

>

> I am not sure if you are a man or a woman sorry?

>

> But your problems with fatigue, exercise intolerance and insulin issues

> could be low growth hormone - IGF1 - I have the same - the weight will not

> come off as IGF1 is the hormone that makes muscle and allows the body to

> lose weight.

December 1, 2010

Hi

I don't know why you were over range - not much though might I add. Did you do some exercise prior to the test - i.e. a couple of hours before.

It was only a shot in the dark - did you have a glucogen test or just blood test for it. I had a glucogen test and only reached 10 but if I had reached 9 I would have got treatment on the NHS!!!

There are many reasons for insulin/sugar issues. Have you had your vitamin and mineral levels tested. Do you drink alcohol - as often insulin issues are liver related particularly as the liver is SO compromised with thyroid dysfunction.

Have a look at this - you will see Vitamin B6 should help but take Vitamin B as a complex otherwise you will allow yourself to go out of balance again with B vitamins.

You should take a good multi vitamin too.

http://www.ei-resource.org/illness-information/related-conditions/hypoglycemia- & -insulin-resistance/

Hope this helps

Mandy

December 2, 2010

Hi Mandy

i didn't do exercise no, not unless you count walking about a bit? i am quiet

heavy, so walking is 'weight training ' for me, i guess!

it was just a blood test i had, about 2pm. not a glucagon test. the other igf-1

test was mid range. in a way i'm glad i don't have low GH as i understand its'

very hard to get on the NHS (as your experience shows?) and very expensive to

buy privately?

i don't drink, no. i don't think it's a vitamin or mineral issue - there is

research to say low testosterone is implicated in diabetes, metabolic syndrome

and vice versa.

i am baffled by it really. perhaps it is just simple though and i have low T

and that's that. the dr i saw (the good one) said that if someone's depressed

in their teens, their set point for hormones will be too low throughout their

life. sounds plausible to me.

i should know what's going on in the next couple of weeks when i see the 'good'

dr again (vs the unhelpful useless nhs one)

thanks for your message

Chris

>

> Hi

>

> I don't know why you were over range - not much though might I add. Did you

> do some exercise prior to the test - i.e. a couple of hours before.

December 2, 2010

hi chris ...hope the blood tests went well yesterday and good for you for

changing your gp..

what a sad and pathetic entity the nhs has become.

i can't begin to understand what the nhs endo is playing at ...i thought the

results showed you had clearly failed your first stim test and then the repeat

test was done with an incorrect protocol and the whole thing just became a

farce! i hope at some point a complaint can be lodged.

there seems to be so much evidence pointing to your adrenals being a major

player and i thought this paragraph from the hertoghe doc in the files was very

pertinent::

" Cortisol production can be enhanced by correcting any other hormone

deficiencies that influence the working of the adrenal glands. The principal

hormone replacement therapies that can increase or decrease the secretion of

cortisol and/or its action are: testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, anabolic

(androgen) steroids. These are strong stimulators of cortisol. A mild stimulator

is thyroid hormone. Strong inhibiters of cortisol are growth hormone,

hyperthyroidism, melatonin excess. Mild inhibitors are oral oestrogen (including

the birth control pill) DHEA, fludrocortisone, and aldosterone. "

i'm very glad to hear you are feeling a bit better and it is probably a

combination of the supplements PLUS knowing you are now back with the private

chap who seems to have a very good grasp of all sorts of possibilities ...don't

give yourself a hard time for re-trying the nhs route, we don't have *hindsight*

at the time!

trish

> i am ok thanks for asking Trish; ok i have a referral back to the good private