Guest guest Posted October 30, 1998 Report Share Posted October 30, 1998 Dear , Dr. Mercola says that Fosamax should never be taken and that it contains similar ingredients to the stuff you clean your drains with. He recommends natural progesterone which will help you. Chris. ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and slow down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take hormones just yet... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 1999 Report Share Posted March 3, 1999 In a message dated 3/3/99 4:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, lharter@... writes: << back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and what was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have been trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. >> Hi Liz, I take Calcium, 1,000 mg a day with Vitamin D. I also use a nasal spray called Miacalcin to help absorb the Calcium. My hips and arms came back ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and slow down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take hormones just yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 1999 Report Share Posted March 3, 1999 Hi Liz H, Thanks for putting the 'H' we have more than one Liz now and I get so easily confused <grin> I would recommend that you read Dr Lee's book 'What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You About Menopause.' Don't be deceived by the title it is not just about menopause and I think every woman should read this book!!! He talks not only about the natural way of increasing bone density with Progesterone Cream, but also about PMT and lots of other very relevant stuff. You can order this book from Amazon (your library should have it too) have a look at 's site which has books and a ton of really good info. on everything imaginable. How are you doing now that you're one and a bit month's 'down the track' :-)) Have you managed to get off the Pred yet? hugs from fellow Luppie, lisbeth rheumatic Bone Density >From: <lharter@...> > >I just want to say thanks for all of the great information everyone >provides. Because of the information on this list I became concerned about >my bone density because I have been on and off prednisone for the last 4 >years. I asked my doctor for a DEXA scan which he agreed to and I just got >my results back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are >below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 >months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and what >was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have been >trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. > >Any input would be appreciated. > >Thanks so much! > >Liz H. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > >Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 1999 Report Share Posted March 3, 1999 Liz and , I've been told whenever you take a calcium supplement, it's also wise to take an equal dose of magnesium. Apparently this helps to counter the constipating effects of the calcium. a rheumatic Re: Bone Density From: DMBGone@... In a message dated 3/3/99 4:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, lharter@... writes: << back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and what was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have been trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. >> Hi Liz, I take Calcium, 1,000 mg a day with Vitamin D. I also use a nasal spray called Miacalcin to help absorb the Calcium. My hips and arms came back ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and slow down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take hormones just yet... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 1999 Report Share Posted March 3, 1999 Hi Liz H I too have been on Prednisone for about 5 years, and once I had been taking it for several months that was considered long term, I was prescribed calcitrol/rocalictrol to help asorb calcium from my food better. My early DEXA scan show osteopenia(SP?) in similiar area to yours, but my next scan, 36 months later showed it had disappeared, along with my aching hips. Perhaps you need a calcium supplement for a while? I also used heated wheat bags to relieve the pain. Hope you find a solution soon. Bye for now Patsy PM 5 years AP Soon Hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 Hi Group : The type of calcium that you take is very important. Calcium carbonate ( talcum powder) , calcium lactate ( milk ),--- the body will only absorb about 10% of the total amount. That means that if you take a 1000 mg dose of calcium carbonate,etc.,you will only absorb 100mg. The most economical form of mineral supplements are chelated. The chelated minerals ( where the mineral is surrounded with an amino acid ) are 40 - 45% absorbed by the body. They are also more expensive. The best one is Microcrystalline Hydroxyapatite, which is 75 - 90% absorbed by the body. It runs $20.00+ per bottle, but you're worth it ! A Magnesium supplement should be taken with Calcium. The normal dose is 1000mg Ca. 500mg. Mg. daily. If I had thinning of the bones, I would double that. HTH Your friend Al R. rheumatic Re: Bone Density > >From: DMBGone@... > >In a message dated 3/3/99 4:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, >lharter@... writes: > ><< back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are > below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 > months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and >what > was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have been > trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. >> > >Hi Liz, >I take Calcium, 1,000 mg a day with Vitamin D. I also use a nasal spray >called Miacalcin to help absorb the Calcium. My hips and arms came back >ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and >slow >down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take >hormones just yet... > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? > >Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? > >Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 My gp recommended Calcium Carbonate with no artificial colour, made from oyster shells. 2 - 1250 mg tablets a day. I pay a little over $9.00 for 250 capsules. They are really huge capsules, a grey colour. If I ground them up would I have talcum powder. BTW Gabe Mirkin has said be careful with talcum powder if you have lung problems because when you use it particles in the air catch in your lungs. Talcum powder particles have little hooks on them that catch in your lungs. Bev rheumatic Re: Bone Density >From: " Al Rousseau " <DogDocAl@...> > >Hi Group : > > The type of calcium that you take is very important. Calcium carbonate >( talcum powder) , calcium lactate ( milk ),--- the body will only absorb >about 10% of the total amount. That means that if you take a 1000 mg dose of >calcium carbonate,etc.,you will only absorb 100mg. > The most economical form of mineral supplements are chelated. The >chelated minerals ( where the mineral is surrounded with an amino acid ) are >40 - 45% absorbed by the body. They are also more expensive. > The best one is Microcrystalline Hydroxyapatite, which is 75 - 90% >absorbed by the body. It runs $20.00+ per bottle, but you're > worth it ! > A Magnesium supplement should be taken with Calcium. The normal >dose is 1000mg Ca. 500mg. Mg. daily. If I had thinning of the bones, I would >double that. > HTH Your friend Al R. > rheumatic Re: Bone Density >> >>From: DMBGone@... >> >>In a message dated 3/3/99 4:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>lharter@... writes: >> >><< back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are >> below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 >> months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and >>what >> was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have been >> trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. >> >> >>Hi Liz, >>I take Calcium, 1,000 mg a day with Vitamin D. I also use a nasal spray >>called Miacalcin to help absorb the Calcium. My hips and arms came back >>ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and >>slow >>down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take >>hormones just yet... >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? >> >>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? >> >>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and >select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 Hi Debra : The supplements should be taken 2 hrs before or after you take your antibiotic. One of the reasons i like Doxy, is that Ca does'nt interfere with its' action in the body. BTW, I recieved my degrees from TAMU. HTH Your friend Al R. rheumatic Re: Bone Density >> > >> >From: DMBGone@... >> > >> >In a message dated 3/3/99 4:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> >lharter@... writes: >> > >> ><< back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are >> > below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 >> > months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and >> >what >> > was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have been >> > trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. >> >> > >> >Hi Liz, >> >I take Calcium, 1,000 mg a day with Vitamin D. I also use a nasal spray >> >called Miacalcin to help absorb the Calcium. My hips and arms came back >> >ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and >> >slow >> >down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take >> >hormones just yet... >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? >> > >> >Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? >> > >> >Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and >> select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 Hi: My doctor (a naturalpathic doctor) recommended I take a product called Soy Isoflavones for bone density, especially now that I'm not taking any hormones and I'm going through menopaus. It's also good for high collestrol. I bought it at the drug counter, next to the herbs. It's pretty cheap. I take one capsule in the morning and one at night. The strength is 100 mg. Sandy in Oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sandy @}-->---- SMILE! 'Cause God thinks you're ladybug@... special... and so do I! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 1999 Report Share Posted March 5, 1999 Hi Group! I dont mean to sound like a prude or paranoid, but oysters get their nutrition from filtering ocean water, usually close to ports of some sort, and there has been a lot of very toxic material dumped in the oceans. I used to love to eat raw oysters, but no more. Al R. rheumatic Re: Bone Density >>> >>>From: DMBGone@... >>> >>>In a message dated 3/3/99 4:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>>lharter@... writes: >>> >>><< back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are >>> below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 >>> months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and >>>what >>> was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have >been >>> trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. >> >>> >>>Hi Liz, >>>I take Calcium, 1,000 mg a day with Vitamin D. I also use a nasal spray >>>called Miacalcin to help absorb the Calcium. My hips and arms came back >>>ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and >>>slow >>>down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take >>>hormones just yet... >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? >>> >>>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? >>> >>>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and >>select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 1999 Report Share Posted March 5, 1999 I knew that too. Didn't think of it tho. Duh!!!! LOL I'm going to see if I can come up with some other source cuz I need the calcium. Thx Bev rheumatic Re: Bone Density >From: " Al Rousseau " <DogDocAl@...> > >Hi Group! > I dont mean to sound like a prude or paranoid, but oysters get their >nutrition from filtering ocean water, usually close to ports of some sort, >and there has been a lot of very toxic material dumped in the oceans. I used >to love to eat raw oysters, but no more. Al R. > rheumatic Re: Bone Density >>>> >>>>From: DMBGone@... >>>> >>>>In a message dated 3/3/99 4:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>>>lharter@... writes: >>>> >>>><< back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are >>>> below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 >>>> months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and >>>>what >>>> was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have >>been >>>> trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. >> >>>> >>>>Hi Liz, >>>>I take Calcium, 1,000 mg a day with Vitamin D. I also use a nasal spray >>>>called Miacalcin to help absorb the Calcium. My hips and arms came back >>>>ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and >>>>slow >>>>down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take >>>>hormones just yet... >>>> >>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? >>>> >>>>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories >>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? >>>> >>>>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >>>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and >>>select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. >>> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >We are proud as punch of our new web site! > >Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 1999 Report Share Posted March 5, 1999 I guess all natural doesn't necessarily mean all good! Debra Al Rousseau wrote: > > From: " Al Rousseau " <DogDocAl@...> > > Hi Group! > I dont mean to sound like a prude or paranoid, but oysters get their > nutrition from filtering ocean water, usually close to ports of some sort, > and there has been a lot of very toxic material dumped in the oceans. I used > to love to eat raw oysters, but no more. Al R. > rheumatic Re: Bone Density > >>> > >>>From: DMBGone@... > >>> > >>>In a message dated 3/3/99 4:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >>>lharter@... writes: > >>> > >>><< back and my spine is in the low normal range and my hips are > >>> below normal (osteopenic). I am 31 and have Lupus and started the AP 2 > >>> months ago. I was interested to see if anyone else has tested low and > >>>what > >>> was recommended by your doctor to increase your bone density. I have > >been > >>> trying to follow the diet so have not been eating much dairy. >> > >>> > >>>Hi Liz, > >>>I take Calcium, 1,000 mg a day with Vitamin D. I also use a nasal spray > >>>called Miacalcin to help absorb the Calcium. My hips and arms came back > >>>ostoepenic also, so now i take Fosamax 5 mg daily in the a.m. to try and > >>>slow > >>>down my bone decay, since I'm not of menopausal age and shouldn't take > >>>hormones just yet... > >>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? > >>> > >>>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories > >>> > >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? > >>> > >>>Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > >>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and > >>select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 1999 Report Share Posted March 5, 1999 Hello Everyone! Geoff Crenshaw here. MCHC is commonly available in health food stores and by mail order and off the web from Ethical Nutrients/Metagenics. The Ethical Nutrients brand is sold under the name 'Bone Builder " . I don't recall what their sister company Metagenics uses for the bottle name onthe same product. This is by far the most effective material available for re-densifying and re-growing bone. It is not without merit to remember that calcium is but one of many constituents in bone - MCHC *is* bone in perfectly balanced proportion which is why the uptake is so complete. Calcium doesn't come close to MCHC and *if* you try to take *all* of the components of bone to increase density, including calcium, magnesium, manganese, et al, you will be taking tons of pills and spending tons of money. HTH -- Regards, Geoff Crenshaw, ACC ---------------------- Managing Partner ** No Disclaimers ** Captain Cook's Cruise Center ---------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Over 3,000 daily cruise & tour specials > Top 5% of Web Sites http://www.800-800-cruise.com [specials] > Top 100 Travel Sites .. > Top Web Sites for Cruise tips New Zealanders http://www.800-800-cruise.com [tips] USA PH: 800-800-CRUIse PH: 559-636-8413 FAX:559-734-1420 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- geoff@... " Faith is not believing in spite of the evidence; it is obeying in spite of the consequence. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Heidi, Were you on Fosamax, or advised to go on Fosamax prior to this test? I'm on it and would love to get off of it. I'm also hypothyroid which is another factor in osteoporosis. Ada > Well, today I finally had a bone density screening done. I was hopeful because even though I'm older (49) and have been on prednisone off and one in my life, and drink coffee, and am gluten intolerant (and most gluten intolerant folks get osteoporisis) and have osteoporosis in the family and don't eat dairy ... I was hopeful in spite of all this because my last xray seemed to be denser than one done 20 years previously (tho this could in fact be differences in exposure). Anyway, the results came in, and my results showed that I have denser bones than the average 30 year old, at .65. I don't have numbers from 20 years ago, so I can't be certain, but my arm bones FEEL bigger. So all this dietary stuff seems to be working ... Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 > Bone density > >Anyway, the results came in, and my results showed that I have >denser bones than the average 30 year old, at .65. I don't have >numbers from 20 years ago, so I can't be certain, but my arm >bones FEEL bigger. So all this dietary stuff seems to be >working ... Congrats! :-) What are your Ca and Vitamin D sources, offhand? I know you eat whole little fish with bones, and I think you mentioned you take a cal/mag supp? Do you take CLO? Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 >Heidi, > >Were you on Fosamax, or advised to go on Fosamax prior to this test? I'm on >it and would love to get off of it. I'm also hypothyroid which is another >factor in osteoporosis. > >Ada No, I've never taken anything like that. I've been taking Cal/Mag/D for a few years because I was getting bad tetany (I couldn't let go of the steering wheel after a drive). And of course I get no gluten or casein, and plenty of sunshine and good meat, and fried dried anchovies. Interestingly I did have some hypothyroid symptoms (cold hands, tired all the time) which went away when I went GF/CF, also I do get a lot of coconut oil which makes me really warm. My thyroid tested on the low side back then, I haven't had it tested recently though. Also interestingly, the tetany comes back when I get any gluten, even with the Cal/mag/D. Which has convinced me there is something going on with calcium usage and gluten, beyond lack of ability to process vitamins in food. Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 >Congrats! :-) What are your Ca and Vitamin D sources, offhand? I know you >eat whole little fish with bones, and I think you mentioned you take a >cal/mag supp? Do you take CLO? > >Suze Fisher Thanks! Well, I don't eat dairy (some kefir here and there, mainly in baked goods). Yeah, fried dried anchovies. I started taking CLO this month, but that's too new to make a difference. I do eat kimchi with pureed shrimp and anchovies, and cal/mag/D from Costco. But really, I think a lot of it is the lack of gluten. Like I mentioned in the previous post, the tetany returns *immediately* when I have a food reaction, that night generally, I start having food spasms. Since tetany seems to be related to cal/mag somehow, I think the food reaction somehow pulls it out of the blood or something. One day isn't enough time for it to be " lack of digestion " . Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Rodney, your bone density notation was well stated. Basically, a person's bones are only as dense as they need to be for the consistent stress that is placed on them. Don (bonehead?) Seguin, Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Hi All, It seems to me, although I am not a physicist or engineer, is that the strength depends on the total mass. A wider, less dense, pillar may support the same stress. Fractures are the bottom line. DXA scan values correlate well with fractures. --- white69@... wrote: > Rodney, your bone density notation was well stated. Basically, a person's > bones are only as dense as they need to be for the consistent stress that > is placed on them. > > Don (bonehead?) > Seguin, Tx Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Hi Al: When a DXA reading is low because it reflects porosity (even if the bone is large) then it is an excellent indicator of fracture risk. But if it is low because it represents smaller, but non-porous, bones then those are the 'exceptions' where people with a low DXA score do not incur fractures. I have been informed by email by a physician who was referenced to me by the International Society of Clinical Densitometrists, and who handles bone density issues at a fairly major hospital near here, that it is porosity that is the issue. The appropriate analogy seems to be that a house that is small but has all its structural members intact will be much stronger than a large house where the structual members have been eaten by termites. At least this is my understanding after spending quite a considerable time pursuing information on the topic. Of course slim people have smaller bones. But not necessarily porous bones. I predict based on what I have read that twenty years from now only magnetic resonance bone data will be taken seriously by anyone. Because it DOES measure density, because it does measure volume. DXA cannot measure volume, so it cannot measure density which is, of course, mass divided by volume. (I have no problem with the idea that porosity and density are equivalent). Rodney. > > > Rodney, your bone density notation was well stated. Basically, a person's > > bones are only as dense as they need to be for the consistent stress that > > is placed on them. > > > > Don (bonehead?) > > Seguin, Tx > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Hi All, Rodney my first hit looking in Medline was " Allograft material properties, bone mineral density, microcrack prevalence, and cortical porosity were quantified in 13 failed human allograft retrievals ranging in longevity from 1 to 13 years in vivo. Nonimplanted allograft tissue (n = 27) served as the baseline for comparison. A 50% loss in strength of allograft tissue was noted after 10 years in vivo. Loss of strength was correlated with an increase in microfracture prevalence and decrease in bone mineral density within the retrieved allograft cortex. This study suggests functional failure of allograft limb salvage procedures may, in part, be attributed to degradation of the tissue's material properties, bone mineral density and prevalence of microcracks. PMID: 15930919 --- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote: > Hi Al: > > When a DXA reading is low because it reflects porosity (even if the > bone is large) then it is an excellent indicator of fracture risk. > But if it is low because it represents smaller, but non-porous, bones > then those are the 'exceptions' where people with a low DXA score do > not incur fractures. > > I have been informed by email by a physician who was referenced to me > by the International Society of Clinical Densitometrists, and who > handles bone density issues at a fairly major hospital near here, > that it is porosity that is the issue. > > The appropriate analogy seems to be that a house that is small but > has all its structural members intact will be much stronger than a > large house where the structual members have been eaten by termites. > > At least this is my understanding after spending quite a considerable > time pursuing information on the topic. > > Of course slim people have smaller bones. But not necessarily porous > bones. I predict based on what I have read that twenty years from > now only magnetic resonance bone data will be taken seriously by > anyone. Because it DOES measure density, because it does measure > volume. DXA cannot measure volume, so it cannot measure density > which is, of course, mass divided by volume. (I have no problem with > the idea that porosity and density are equivalent). > > Rodney. > > > > > > > Rodney, your bone density notation was well stated. Basically, a > person's > > > bones are only as dense as they need to be for the consistent > stress that > > > is placed on them. > > > > > > Don (bonehead?) > > > Seguin, Tx > > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > Start your day with - make it your home page > > http://www./r/hs > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________ Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Hi Al: Your time here is too valuable to spend a lot of it, perhaps unnecessarily, looking for stuff on bone density in Medline. Before you resort to that may I suggest that first you take a look at the studies I posted here on the topic a few months ago? ESPECIALLY, can I suggest you take a very close look at one in particular. It examined the DXA measurements of hundreds of people of all BMIs. Then for a subset of these subjects they measured not only DXA bone '''''density''''' (which of course isn't a measure of density at all because it makes no attempt to measure volume, which is essential for any real measure of density) but they also went to a great deal of trouble to measure REAL density as well, by measuring volume as well as mass. In their original DXA measurements there was a very pronounced tendency for people with low BMIs to have ***DXA*** scores in the osteopenia or osteoporosis ranges. While many fewer of the higher BMI subjects were similarly afflicted. In the subset of subjects where they measured REAL density they found that on average there was very nearly NO DIFFERENCE between the bone densities of the low BMI subjects and those of higher BMI. Indeed, the real densities of the lower BMI subjects were very slightly ***HIGHER*** - yes, higher - than those of the subjects with higher BMIs. So the apparent difference in density by BMI based on DXA measurements was all a figment of the DXA machine's inability to measure volume, and the apparent unwillingness of the machine manufacturers to organize their software to take account of this factor. We all know that people here, and elsewhere, who have healthy BMIs almost invariably have poor DXA scores. Just like the low BMI subjects in that study. I believe that if our real densities were to be measured, as they were in the study, they would on average, just as in the study, be found to be no different from those of our overweight siblings who have good DXA scores simply because they are overweight. That does not mean none of us have osteopenia. I am sure some of us do. But, based on the results of that study, so also does a similar proportion of people who are overweight. DXA doesn't show this in overweight people because it interprets all variations in bone ***mass*** to reflect differences in density, when much if not most of the difference in the case of varying BMIs is a function of bone SIZE, not density at all. And it is real density - grams per ***cubic*** centimeter - (or porosity) that really matters to bone strength. Funnily enough, the purpose of that study was not to discredit DXA. Based on what they wrote the authors of the paper appear to be blissfully unaware of the implications their study data have for the relevance of DXA bone density tests. Which is, imo, that they have little relevance for anyone whose BMI is materially different from the very-nearly-obese population average. Sometime I will try to find that post and the sudy reference. But it probably will not be this weekend. Rodney. > > > > > > > Rodney, your bone density notation was well stated. Basically, a > > person's > > > > bones are only as dense as they need to be for the consistent > > stress that > > > > is placed on them. > > > > > > > > Don (bonehead?) > > > > Seguin, Tx > > > > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > > Start your day with - make it your home page > > > http://www./r/hs > > > > > > > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Dear Lynn, I had a blood test today which was good. I also showed my oncologist the article on the subject of bone problems. In my case I haven't been on Gleevec long enough to make a difference. He told me to show it to the rheumatologist who gives the bone density test. He is aware of this side effect. Since I am on the Fosamax I will probably be okay, but I may have to have the bone density every year instead of every 2. I have the test on August 21st, so I will let you all know what the doctor says. Healthy wishes to all Ceil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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