Re: Fw: The Campaign's Petition - Step One

November 1, 2000

On Tue, 31 October 2000, " Phyllis " wrote:

With the election just around the corner - has anyone heard anything regarding

vaccinations and the canidates stand on the issue? Any info regarding the

general subjects talked about through this email group (regarding the canidates

views on the subjects)would be great to hear about!! thanks in advance- stacy

>

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> <TD><FONT face= " Times New Roman " size=3><B>Whereas, genetically

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> market;<BR><BR>Whereas, genetically engineered foods are being

sold

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> majority of citizens of the United States of America want to know

if

> their foods have been genetically engineered for various health,

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November 1, 2000

> On Tue, 31 October 2000, " Phyllis " wrote:

> With the election just around the corner - has anyone heard anything

> regarding vaccinations and the canidates stand on the issue? Any

> info regarding the general subjects talked about through this email

> group (regarding the canidates views on the subjects)would be great

> to hear about!! thanks in advance- stacy

~~~~~

Strictly speaking on the subject of politics with vaccination issue and

health.....

Bush has been very sympathetic to pro-parental rights in Texas as has Lt.

Gov. . Good state to homeschool in too. We're very close to

passing a philosophical exemption in Texas in part due to their openness

to the issue. But we have to work on Texas congress as well. Also in

need of Texas parents to jump on the band wagon and help. Check out

PROVE'S website at www.vaccineinfo.net for further info on Texas and our

approach to help turn legislature.

Gore's record with Clinton has been less than acceptable on the subject

of parental rights concerning vaccination, education and health care in

general.

Neither party is probably going to make a bold statement on vaccination

this late in the game since they haven't (to my knowledge) as of yet.

Could spell political suicide this late in the game.

I have no info on Nader or Buchannan.

Jules in TX

mommabiker@...

AKA: bikermom and mommamotorbiker on other lists

--- The caliber of a man is often determined by the amount of opposition

it takes to discourage him ---

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November 1, 2000

I think our work is possibly going to be cut out for us with both

candidates - remember, Bush is pro-business, and if they get to him, he

might change his stance.

In my mind, we need to approach Democrats with an anti-big business slant,

and with Republicans, with an anti-big government one. Sandy

November 1, 2000

Since we're speaking about polotics, what is anyones feelings about Ralph

Nader? Just out of curiosity...

November 1, 2000

BUSH! BUSH! BUSH!

No politician is perfect, most of them are idiots with good intentions, but

one thing is for sure there are to many abortions going on, not enough

people involved in a church org. and we now have just about twice as many

vaccines being administered to our children since Hillary and Bill got into

office besides the fact of all of this homeschooling issue. Dan Burton is a

Republican and he said to keep that in mind when voting as well. Besides his

VP has a ton of experience and seem level headed. If you think about it

everyone on this list is very conservative in how we are choosing to raise

our family. Less government is where I am at.

November 1, 2000

On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:03:13 -0900 " Sandy Mintz " <sandym@...>

writes:

> In my mind, we need to approach Democrats with an anti-big business

> slant, and with Republicans, with an anti-big government one. Sandy

Sandy, I think you may be right....

Jules in TX

mommabiker@...

AKA: bikermom and mommamotorbiker on other lists

--- The caliber of a man is often determined by the amount of opposition

it takes to discourage him ---

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November 1, 2000

I think we need to appeal to more than ourselves. We will never succeed if

we only appeal to Republicans. I think we have a strong case with

Democrats, if we handle it well (and I am one of them). If you think about

it, the drug companies are at least as bad as the government is on this

issue, and the Republicans don't exactly shy away from supporting big

business. The Democrats are more likely to believe that we have been

bamboozled by the drug companies, and that the medical community has been

misled by them as well. Sandy

November 1, 2000

I'm also a bit troubled by something implicit in your statement, i.e., that

Republicans care more about their children than Democrats do. I think that

is very unfair - there are plusses and minuses on both sides of the fence,

and we must appeal to the strengths on each. Sandy

November 1, 2000

Personally, I think that both of our two party system candidates are just

pawns of the " powers that be " with the money. I really have a good laugh

listening to their campaign promises. It takes me back to Jr. High when you

would hear things like we'll be getting pop to come out of water fountain

and longer lunches.

I really hope we wake up the day after and find that Ralph Nader won and

most of the country is sitting with their paper and coffee with their mouths

hanging open and things get changed for the better.

-Now I'll stop dreaming and rambling and go to bed

>>>

-----Original Message-----

From: GeekGoddessMama@... [mailto:GeekGoddessMama@...]

Since we're speaking about polotics, what is anyones feelings about Ralph

Nader? Just out of curiosity...>>>

November 2, 2000

I have to agree. But, I think the approach should be

anti-IRRESPONSIBLE-business. As a business owner, I know the sacrifices

(ie. not cashing our own paychecks so the employees could cash their's

even when we had no money, hours spent each month on sales tax reports

instead of selling,encouraging individuals to take time off for a family

situation while working the pay to help them, etc.) our family has made

for our employees families, customers, etc. It is not the issue that

the pharmaceutical compnanies make money...the issue is they are

irresponsible in that they are putting profit above civic, humanitarian

and moral responsibility. IMO, Congress should require the

pharmaceutical companies to fund completely, or at a minimum 50% of the

compensation program. Then they have an incentive to improve the

products. The pharmaceutical companies should not be allowed to

advertise medicine/vaccines. It is not like we are getting a toy for

our kid, the pharmaceutical company products are very individualistic

and the commercials make it seem that there is only one way to many

ignorant fools. Just those two examples show IRRESPONSIBLE business. I

think when politicians go after businesses they need to clarify it

because otherwise they alienate many individuals who not only employee

themselves but many others. If people did not go into business then

everyone would be complaining there is unemployment because no one is

hiring. Just like our messages are defined ie: Wanting safer vaccines,

true informed consent, philosophical exemptions, etc. rather then just

ban vaccines, the same goes for businesses.

Don't get me wrong, we own a business to make a profit but we don't drag

customers and employees over the coals to accomplish it and we have put

in and continue to put in our time long after everyone has gone home

(ie. 12-16 hour days).

I have to agree that I think many of us on the list are conservative

(meaning not wanting the help from the government or wanting to be told

by the government what to do), esp. on health care issues (ie. no

vaccines, no pesticides (organic food)

I'll stop my rambling...

Tom and Muckerheide wrote:

>

> BUSH! BUSH! BUSH!

>

> No politician is perfect, most of them are idiots with good intentions, but

> one thing is for sure there are to many abortions going on, not enough

> people involved in a church org. and we now have just about twice as many

> vaccines being administered to our children since Hillary and Bill got into

> office besides the fact of all of this homeschooling issue. Dan Burton is a

> Republican and he said to keep that in mind when voting as well. Besides his

> VP has a ton of experience and seem level headed. If you think about it

> everyone on this list is very conservative in how we are choosing to raise

> our family. Less government is where I am at.

>

--

@...

***************************************************************

Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical

OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you

implement that decision is yours and yours alone.

November 2, 2000

I guess my point is really that we have an issue that should cut across all

party lines.

And I think it is a mistake to assume Democrats want to be told what to do.

They have a different idea about what government can do to help people. And

it's not as if the Republicans don't use the government when it suits them.

I agree the issue should be re:irresponsible business. But in the same way,

it should be re: irresponsible government. Neither are inherently good or

bad. What I earlier hoped to convey was the notion that Democrats, given

their concerns about business unchecked, are going to be more likely to

believe that the drug companies don't necessarily have our best interests at

heart. By the same token, the Rebublicans are more likely to believe

government unchecked can be a problem, and doesn't necessarily have our best

interests at heart. Neither one is right or wrong, good or bad.

Moderates on both sides, may be able to see the problems with both.

However, Democrat or Republican, Independent or Green, we love our children.

And it bothers me that there seems to be a sense of superiority among some

people who are " conservative " . Given the fact that the vaccine

manufacturers' role in this, and the Republican almost unquestioning support

for big (irresponsible - only the don't realize that about it) business,

assuming the Democrats are the bad guys and the Republicans are the good

guys seems unfair and counterproductive to me. In a way, our greatest hope

for reigning in irresponsible business is the Democrats.

It doesn't help to be divisive. And besides, a huge percentage are

Independents, who don't particularly vote on party lines.

We need to stick with the facts, and appeal to the interests of everyone.

The drug companies are for the drug companies, not our children. " Public

Health " , if it is accomplished by violating individual health is neither

moral, nor healthy. Using vaccines, which have not been proved to be safe,

to promote so-called public health, is wrong, both morally and medically.

Forcing people to be vaccinated, in a free society, violates our most basic

rights.

I am for informed consent - good information, and the right to choose (as

opposed to " forced informed consent " ). I believe in the rights of people to

be vaccinated and the rights of people to choose not to be vaccinated. We

all need good information to make that choice. I don't know what is right

for anyone else but me and my family.

Sandy

November 2, 2000

Tom and Muckerheide wrote:

If you think about it everyone on this list is very conservative in how we are

choosing to raise our family.

> I guess that depends on how you define conservative. Personally, I recoil at

> that word.

November 2, 2000

In a message dated 11/2/00 2:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tomnrachel@... writes:

<< I hate to say but it would be a wasted vote even though I would

rather see someone like Nader win >>

if everyone who feels as you do, voted for who they REALLY wanted, not who

they thought had the better chance of winning, who knows what might

happen...even if nader didn't win, don't you think it'd be a BIG wake up call

to the 2 parties, that these " {fringe " element candidates might actually get

somewhere? maybe the next time around they'd think a little differently and

maybe the next time others who would like to vote for an underdog, might take

the chance and vote for who they really want--thinking, " Hey, maybe, just

maybe this guy might have a chance--i'm gonna go with my true choice " . i

dunno--something's gotta change and it's gotta start somewhere. like my

gramma always told me--if you're not part of the sloution, you're part of the

problem.

just my .02

brigit

(who's also very undecided and confused too!!)

November 2, 2000

Well I guess your vote is in isn't it... That is why this is a great country

vote for what you believe in. I am voting for more moral issues and issues

pertaining to the right to homeschool & for vouchers which seem fair to

those who can not afford a private EDU. Etc. to be honest with you I am not

interested in the big business side of it am much. People make this economy

not government. I am sorry if you feel a holier than thou attitude from

conservatives, I guess maybe it is the same holier than thou attitude people

have about breastfeeding , not vaxing and homeschooling. A feeling of doing

what you feel is morally correct as a parent. I voted Clinton last time I

am neither republican or democrat I am for getting things THE FAMILY UNIT

back where it should be, and for me Gore as nice as a person as he seems,

has already been caught exaggerating way to many times. Personally I feel

the abortion pill was a great thing, if they would outlaw regular abortions

and give women this pill, then maybe having to be awake for the experience

and feel your body going through the process and see the fetus would wake

some people up to be more conscious of what on earth they are doing. I do

not believe a women's right should be taken away but partial birth and post

birth abortions, you have got to be kidding me. Unfortunately probably about

5% of all abortions are for life threatening , rape incest scenarios the

others are irresponsible teens drug addicts people who decide to have an

affair that goes wrong or get pregnant to keep the guy and when he bails

they decide or what have I done. This is a big deal to me sorry for going on

about it. I used to lurk in an abortion chat room, I was curious.

Happy voting

November 2, 2000

Sandy,

I never said that Rep. Cared more about their children. If you just think

about what the two stand for Rep.( Conservative not so open minded stuck in

the old school, back to the basics) and Dem.( Liberal open to anything

freedom of everything, forget old school this is a different time). For

myself while have a Democracy as a government it has supplied myself and my

family a wonderful opportunity to do anything, but this country is in a

state of moral confusion it seems about everything. Divorce is ok no big

deal, abortions are not really a big deal but condoms are, everyone seems to

work in our liberal 2 income houses no one can afford for the wife/mother to

stay home if she wants, without having to really sacrifice. The drug war is

beating us heroin is no the drug of choice among teen along with ecstasy.

How about the Clinton deal we are so numb to the bad choices being made that

his affair was looked at as well he is a man, when there was a time where he

would have been shunned and disrespected entirely. It is nothing to see

totally graphic pictures on the news or commercials you see breasts and here

cuse words every other minute on TV. What is the message? Well, I think my

son needs a little old school again. Maybe in 4 yrs. I will say something

different I doubt it though it will probably take 12 to get back into some

type of a conservative atmosphere.

November 2, 2000

I think he is great. But because the 2 parties dominate he will never win.

It takes to much money to get noticed which is sad. Technically a democracy

should be equal time for everyone but it is not so I have to go with the

reality. I hate to say but it would be a wasted vote even though I would

rather see someone like Nader win. Bush is going to need my vote to win I

think it will be that close Nader doesn't have a chance.

November 2, 2000

While I think your intentions are good unfortunately you can vote for one

person. There is no alienating just opinion being shared everyone has there

own ideas of what would make this a better world. Again I do not thing Gore

or Bush is totally that person but it just as important to share some

opinions about this election as it is about vaccines. If you do not vote

then you should not have an opinion. I respect your decision and for your

reasons.

November 2, 2000

, I nursed my first child until he was four, my second until he was 6.

I had a VBAC after having had placenta previa the first pregnancy in 1986.

I started questioning the vaccinations in 1982, when my first child was

born. I have been a vegetarian for most of the past 22 years. I'm not a

status quo kind of person. But I don't think that makes me better than

other people.

I fear we will alienate people if that is our attitude.

Assuming that the Republicans or anyone else will support our right to

choose if the vaccine manufacturers support their campaigns, is naive.

Unless, unless, there is widespread support among the voters, they will do

the easy thing. We need each other. And we can't afford to alienate anyone

needlessly. Sandy

November 2, 2000

, I didn't say that you said Republicans care more about their

children than Democrats do. I was trying to make the point that we all

care, so assuming any group of people is not potentially on our side, and

having a negative attitude toward them, doesn't serve at least one of our

goals, i.e., getting the public to support choice re:vaccination. Sandy

November 2, 2000

If you don't vote Nader just because you think he hasn't a chance it does

matter. If he doesn't get a certain percentage of the vote he vote get any

matching Federal funds next time.

Jen

----- > << I hate to say but it would be a wasted vote even though I would

> rather see someone like Nader win >>

>

November 2, 2000

----- > << I hate to say but it would be a wasted vote even though I would

> rather see someone like Nader win >>

>

If everyone who felt this way would just vote for Nader, maybe it wouldn't

have been wasted at all.

-

November 2, 2000

nader needs a certain percentage in order to have a 3rd party next time

around. i know it is wasted but he has my vote to shake up the other two

parties. hopefully a number of people will feel that way and shock sleeping

america.

November 2, 2000

He is for a government with many mandates and laws....laws that restrict

this..... and mandates that demand that.....If you feel that Nader is the

answer to making vaccines a " choice " , (or anything " your choice " ), think

again. He is for regulation after regulation. There will be a

socialistic state if he gets his chance at the White House.

Re: Fw: The Campaign's Petition - Step One

> Since we're speaking about polotics, what is anyones feelings about Ralph

> Nader? Just out of curiosity...

>

November 3, 2000

Another vote for gore I guess..

November 3, 2000

Maybe I overstated my position on Nader. From what I have heard he has some

great ideas, there are some concerns about him being single God knows what

the White House would look like openly to the rest of Americans and what

kind of example that would be, but my point is none of them are perfect and

he was not on the debates he was on Larry King and I have seen Donahue speak

on his behalf on Geraldo but other than that I have not paid to much

attention but what I did hear sounded interesting. So let's move on from the

WASTED VOTE ISSUE.

Thanks,

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Re: Fw: The Campaign's Petition - Step One

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