Re: religious exemption (my unsolicited advice)

[Guest guest]

Just hope you never have to go to court to protect your child from being

vaccinated. I did and I lost. I'm not about to be a martyr anymore at the risk

of my children's health.

Adrienne wrote:

> At 10:18 AM 10/17/00 -0700, you wrote:

> > I think sometimes people feel like they are lying (I would

> > >if I used a religious exemption in reference to public school.)

> > >

> >I have heard people say that too.

> >

> >Well, the whole fear of lying is a ridiculous one. Don't lie and damage

> >your kid. Ask people who lived thru Nazi Germany about lying to save their

> >lives. You do what you have to to protect your child and because someone

> >else makes unconstitutional rules you have to go by them or think you are

> >lying?? Think about it.

> >--------------------------------------------------------

> >Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

>

> I would feel like I was lying if I said I did not vaccinate for religious

> reasons, simply because the religion I follow does not have any formal

> declaration against vaccinations. I have moral objections to lying, even

> for the protection of my child. I would go to other lengths to protect my

> child and so I would not have to lie (does that make sense?) It isn't a

> fear of lying, it's an objection to lying. That's why the

> personal/philosophical exemption is so nice.

>

> Adrienne

>

[Guest guest]

This may be a little different but not much. I'm court ordered to allow my

daughter's father to vaccinate her. I sure wish I would have done things

differently but hindsight is always 20/20. I went to court under a religious

exemption and lost. The judge recognized I had a " sincere religious belief but

it's in the child's best interest.. blahs blah blah " .

Sandy Mintz wrote:

> PS However, I would have found a way to avoid vaccination. As one person

> just suggested, I would homeschool if need be. I would move, if I could.

> So I don't want anyone to think I don't understand the absolute horror

> everyone is feeling. In fact, I told my son who still lives at home that if

> they find a way to remove his medical exemption, and I can't get out of it

> another way, I will homeschool him. Sandy

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure how to clarify this. Basically, I would do ANYTHING not to allow my

children to be vaccinated. I went to court the rightful way and lost. I just

would not be a martyr to a system that would harm my child. I'm not a dishonest

person, I'm not!! I just want to protect my children at all costs. To not lie

knowing I'll loose, is a martyr and at my children's expense. It's not worth it

to try and " prove " to a school nurse that " I'm right. " It's just not worth it to

make a statement like that. Not to me anyway.

BTW, Thank God God has taken care of the situation. It's been over a year now

and

my daughter has not had any vaccines and she's NOT up to date.

Sheri Nakken wrote:

> So , what are you saying here to make it clearer for everyone?

> Sheri

>

> At 03:12 PM 10/04/2000 -0700, you wrote:

> >Just hope you never have to go to court to protect your child from being

> >vaccinated. I did and I lost. I'm not about to be a martyr anymore at the

> risk

> >of my children's health.

> >

> >Adrienne wrote:

> >

> >> At 10:18 AM 10/17/00 -0700, you wrote:

> >> > I think sometimes people feel like they are lying (I would

> >> > >if I used a religious exemption in reference to public school.)

> >> > >

> >> >I have heard people say that too.

> >> >

> >> >Well, the whole fear of lying is a ridiculous one. Don't lie and damage

> >> >your kid. Ask people who lived thru Nazi Germany about lying to save

> their

> >> >lives. You do what you have to to protect your child and because someone

> >> >else makes unconstitutional rules you have to go by them or think you are

> >> >lying?? Think about it.

> >> >--------------------------------------------------------

> >> >Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

> >>

> >> I would feel like I was lying if I said I did not vaccinate for religious

> >> reasons, simply because the religion I follow does not have any formal

> >> declaration against vaccinations. I have moral objections to lying, even

> >> for the protection of my child. I would go to other lengths to protect my

> >> child and so I would not have to lie (does that make sense?) It isn't a

> >> fear of lying, it's an objection to lying. That's why the

> >> personal/philosophical exemption is so nice.

> >>

> >> Adrienne

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------------

> Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

> Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA

> 530-272-7306

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

> " All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( &

> women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke

>

> ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

> DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

> Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

> International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

> Education, Homeopathic Education

> KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

> CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

>

[Guest guest]

Because when it's a battle between both parents. It doesn't matter I guess. I

could not afford to file an appeal. My funds ran out. If my daughter was going

to school and the school nurse was trying to force her to be vaccinated, that

would be different since we have exemptions in AZ. It IS crazy that this judge

has power over my child. I grew this baby and 10 months later, we're in court

with a judge telling me how I should raise my child. But again, to be really

fair, he's just doing his job. He was trying to decide which parent is right,

the one that wants to vaccinate, or the one that has strong religious objections

and does not. I was told by my lawyer to use a religious exemption instead of a

personal one. She said to keep the scientific information out of it an keep it

religious. I wish I would have kept my mouth shut from the very start and maybe

lie that I had the vaccines done, or do the whole court thing differently. I

just don't know. I guess my whole point is that if I'm in a street fight, I'm

not always going to fight fair. It's like a mother bear will do anything to

protect her cubs, she'll do ANYTHING to keep them safe and that means being

immoral for lying then I have to consider that option.

wrote:

> If it's in the child's best interest, why do they even have a religious

> exemption if they are not acknowledging it? Seems crazy that a judge or

> anyone else can decide what's best for your child and how sincere your

> beliefs are about your religion.

>

>

> hope you get this

> Re: religious exemption (my unsolicited advice)

>

> >This may be a little different but not much. I'm court ordered to allow my

> >daughter's father to vaccinate her. I sure wish I would have done things

> >differently but hindsight is always 20/20. I went to court under a

> religious

> >exemption and lost. The judge recognized I had a " sincere religious belief

> but

> >it's in the child's best interest.. blahs blah blah " .

> >

> >Sandy Mintz wrote:

> >

> >> PS However, I would have found a way to avoid vaccination. As one

> person

> >> just suggested, I would homeschool if need be. I would move, if I could.

> >> So I don't want anyone to think I don't understand the absolute horror

> >> everyone is feeling. In fact, I told my son who still lives at home that

> if

> >> they find a way to remove his medical exemption, and I can't get out of

> it

> >> another way, I will homeschool him. Sandy

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> _______________________________________________

> Why pay for something you could get for free?

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>

[Guest guest]

Cheryl, I love what you said about the legitimacy of any and all religious

exemptions. However, I'm wondering what others think about the following

proposition: Everyone who can get a medical exemption should do so in order

that the schools aren't flooded with religious exemptions, tempting them to

try and remove that exemption from the books. Whether or not they could

succeed, I can't say, but they could put up one hell of a fight. Sandy

[Guest guest]

At 05:53 PM 10/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:

>Cheryl, I love what you said about the legitimacy of any and all religious

>exemptions. However, I'm wondering what others think about the following

>proposition: Everyone who can get a medical exemption should do so in order

>that the schools aren't flooded with religious exemptions, tempting them to

>try and remove that exemption from the books. Whether or not they could

>succeed, I can't say, but they could put up one hell of a fight. Sandy

>

>

Rarely can anyone get a medical exemption - aren't enough doctors who will

do it.

So other than 16 states with philosophical exemptions, the religious

exemption is the only choice. In most states its not that difficult. You

find out your state law. Copy that. Type up a letter with the exact

wording and sign it. You aren't required to explain anything - NOR should

you. Unconstitutional. Those states that don't seem to get it that it is

unconstitutional, you need extra help.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( &

women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

That is sooo cool, can I use this? It is good for an exemption I think,

or just to show to people.

When I am asked, and I am everytime I go to the ER or to the Urgent

Care at the hospital if my children are up to date on immunizations,

I look them straight in the eye and say YES, because in my opinion,

they are....having none is up to date for me.

*LOL*

Petric

religious exemption (my unsolicited advice)

> Many people seem apologetic because they feel they

> are falsely hiding behind a religious exemption. I don't

> think anyone should be the least bit hesitant to claim a

> religious exemption if they feel it's in the best interest of

> their child(ren).

>

> If you believe in God, do you believe the God who gave

> life to your children desires you to recklessly endanger

> their lives? If your answer is " No " then you are entitled

> to a religious exemption.

>

> If you don't believe in God do you believe there is a life

> force within every living creature? If you really poopoo

> spiritual things do you believe every living thing is an

> electro-chemical system? Now if you believe believe

> immunizations could do harm to the vitality of these

> forces/electro-chemical systems then immunization would

> be contrary to your spiritual/physical/meta-physical beliefs

> and you'd be entitled to a religious exemption.

>

> I think anyone who opposes abortion has an easy

> religious exemption from most viral vaccines. Any

> vegetarian could claim a religious exemption because

> vaccines are grown on animal tissue.

>

> I don't think anyone's health benefits from vaccines but

> I understand some others are at a place where they want

> to selectively vaccinate (for some reason a lot of people

> seem to be enamored of tetenus--mostly fear based

> decisions I assume.) To me it would seem that if you

> view your child as a blessing from God (or a bonus from

> some cosmic crapshoot), then to do anything you believed

> harmful to the blessing (or that might discount the gift)

> would be contrary to your worship of God (or

> acceptance of [in a Dharma voice] the universe.)

>

> I'm not trying to push my personal (or philosophical, or

> religious, or medical) beliefs on anyone else but I'd just

> like to see people boldly stand up and embrace the rights

> they have (and the exemptions they are ENTITLED to).

> There is no need to go around like some milktoast

> begging for people to throw you a crumb and not harrass

> you if you want to take responsibility for your child(ren)'s

> health. It only encourages people with too little power for

> their own satisfaction to make your life miserable. The

> only thing I see that can result from our arguing how our

> beliefs fit the narrowness of a religious exemption (rather

> than the broadness of a religious exemption) is to

> encourage those who oppose us to raise the bar so we'd

> have to fight more vigorously at the local level to enforce

> the validity of each individual child's exemption.

>

> ~Cheryl (who views the autonomy of one's body as a

> human rights issue.)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 05:53 PM 10/16/00 -0800, you wrote:

>Cheryl, I love what you said about the legitimacy of any and all religious

>exemptions. However, I'm wondering what others think about the following

>proposition: Everyone who can get a medical exemption should do so in order

>that the schools aren't flooded with religious exemptions, tempting them to

>try and remove that exemption from the books. Whether or not they could

>succeed, I can't say, but they could put up one hell of a fight. Sandy

I think a lot of people assume they don't qualify for a medical

exemption. For instance, my daughter is a mostly healthy 14 month old

(with slight allergies -- likely inherited from badly allergic parents, and

low iron). Other than my concern that my super sweet, intelligent little

girl will change personalities or have brain damage from the vaccinations,

I don't think she has any real medical reasons to avoid them, such as an

already suppressed immune system or other " valid " reasons.

As for someone saying that people are apologetic for taking religious

exemptions, my problem is that my religion (Catholic) does not oppose

vaccinations. On top of that, we intend to send her to a Catholic school,

so claiming that exemption would not fly by them so easily. Home schooling

is an option, but I feel the Catholic school is our best option of the 3

choices here. I think sometimes people feel like they are lying (I would

if I used a religious exemption in reference to public school.)

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

I was thinking, perhaps wrongly, that there were doctors out there (maybe

only a few), who will give medical exemptions to anyone who asks. Of

course, you'd have to know who they are. For instance, there is at least

one such doctor in Anchorage. And I know of at least one doctor elsewhere.

I suppose that whoever they are, they are few and probably more or less

underground. Sandy

[Guest guest]

" assuming you're from the states "

What do you mean by that?

>From: " Cheryl Overley " <cheryl@...>

>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

><Vaccinationsegroups>

>Subject: Re: religious exemption (my unsolicited advice)

>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:41:24 -0400

>

>Sandy Mintz wrote:

> > .... I'm wondering what others think about the following

> > proposition: Everyone who can get a medical exemption should do so in

>order

> > that the schools aren't flooded with religious exemptions, tempting them

>to

> > try and remove that exemption from the books. Whether or not they could

> > succeed, I can't say, but they could put up one hell of a fight. Sandy

>

>FWIW, I believe the religious exemption is more secure

>because it's in the bill of rights (assuming you're from the

>states.)

> Amendment I

> Congress shall make no law respecting an

> establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free

> exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

> or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably

> to assemble, and to petition the government for a

> redress of grievances.

>Someone also just posted about a law passed (it was

>called something like the Religious Freedom Restoration

>Act) and lots of relevant case law.

>

>Medical exemptions can be more controversial. Just think

>of Roe v. Wade and the right to privacy. How many

>times have the contraindications for different vaccines

>changed? How often do we see disparity between

>contraindications on the manufacturers insert and

>contraindications as given by doctors, health departments,

>school nurses, and paper pushing bureaucrats? Didn't we

>read about a case (in West Virginia?) where and older

>child was vaccine damaged and the school said the

>younger siblings could only have a medical exemption if

>they each first received shots and then also suffered

>seizures? They considered a vaccine damaged individual

>sharing with over 1/2 their genetic material in common not

>to be high enough risk to earn a medical exemption. It is

>unjust and we shouldn't have to fight such tyranny.

>

>It's so much harder for anyone to prove your beliefs aren't

>sincerely held (than to prove a medical indication) that we

>should take the easy road and shield ourselves and our

>children behind religious exemptions while we continue to

>educate the public about the reality of vaccinations.

>

>Cheryl ~ who thinks everyone should have their cake and

>eat it too!

>

>P.S. Even if a state's vaccination laws don't specifically

>list a religious exemption they still are not allowed to

>violate the constitution. They might bully, harass or

>intimidate but the KNOW they will never win in the

>supreme court.

>

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/17/00 10:18:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

snakken@... writes:

<< Well, the whole fear of lying is a ridiculous one. >>

Its hard to get out of this one.

I have thought about it too - I have thought of telling people that my

daughter (who is 12) had a serious reaction and I don't want my son to have a

reaction. My daughter lives in another country so they wouldn't be able to

even check if I was lying or not.

Chelly

[Guest guest]

Sandy Mintz wrote:

> .... I'm wondering what others think about the following

> proposition: Everyone who can get a medical exemption should do so in

order

> that the schools aren't flooded with religious exemptions, tempting them

to

> try and remove that exemption from the books. Whether or not they could

> succeed, I can't say, but they could put up one hell of a fight. Sandy

FWIW, I believe the religious exemption is more secure

because it's in the bill of rights (assuming you're from the

states.)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an

establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free

exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably

to assemble, and to petition the government for a

redress of grievances.

Someone also just posted about a law passed (it was

called something like the Religious Freedom Restoration

Act) and lots of relevant case law.

Medical exemptions can be more controversial. Just think

of Roe v. Wade and the right to privacy. How many

times have the contraindications for different vaccines

changed? How often do we see disparity between

contraindications on the manufacturers insert and

contraindications as given by doctors, health departments,

school nurses, and paper pushing bureaucrats? Didn't we

read about a case (in West Virginia?) where and older

child was vaccine damaged and the school said the

younger siblings could only have a medical exemption if

they each first received shots and then also suffered

seizures? They considered a vaccine damaged individual

sharing with over 1/2 their genetic material in common not

to be high enough risk to earn a medical exemption. It is

unjust and we shouldn't have to fight such tyranny.

It's so much harder for anyone to prove your beliefs aren't

sincerely held (than to prove a medical indication) that we

should take the easy road and shield ourselves and our

children behind religious exemptions while we continue to

educate the public about the reality of vaccinations.

Cheryl ~ who thinks everyone should have their cake and

eat it too!

P.S. Even if a state's vaccination laws don't specifically

list a religious exemption they still are not allowed to

violate the constitution. They might bully, harass or

intimidate but the KNOW they will never win in the

supreme court.

[Guest guest]

Cheryl, I hope you're right about the security of the religious exemption.

I know a few years ago I heard that Public Health here in Alaska was going

to try and get rid of it. There was a discussion with another vaccination

group about this, and a number of people agreed that if we assume it is

sacrosanct, we could get a big, ugly surprise. Laws, even the constitution,

are a matter of interpretation, at least to a degree. We must remain

vigilant on this issue.

I had always thought the state would not normally challenge a doctor. I

know they have tried, at times, but I know of one case where they had to

withdraw.

Anyway, we're caught between a rock and a hard place, so everyone has to do

what they can. I just thought that anyone who could get a medical exemption

should get one - because I fear that they will start challenging religious

exemptions if there are too many of them. I don't think it is completely

unrealistic to worry that in an " outbreak " that they got people hysterical

about, they would be able to suspend individual rights, even religious ones,

for the so-called common good. With the permission, even gratitude, of the

manipulated public.

Sandy

[Guest guest]

I think sometimes people feel like they are lying (I would

>if I used a religious exemption in reference to public school.)

>

I have heard people say that too.

Well, the whole fear of lying is a ridiculous one. Don't lie and damage

your kid. Ask people who lived thru Nazi Germany about lying to save their

lives. You do what you have to to protect your child and because someone

else makes unconstitutional rules you have to go by them or think you are

lying?? Think about it.

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( &

women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

At 04:10 PM 10/17/2000 EDT, you wrote:

>In a message dated 10/17/00 10:18:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>snakken@... writes:

>

><< Well, the whole fear of lying is a ridiculous one. >>

>Its hard to get out of this one.

>I have thought about it too - I have thought of telling people that my

>daughter (who is 12) had a serious reaction and I don't want my son to

have a

>reaction. My daughter lives in another country so they wouldn't be able to

>even check if I was lying or not.

>Chelly

You do what you have to do when such unlawful, immoral, unethical and

things are required of you.

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( &

women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

At 03:25 PM 10/17/2000 CDT, you wrote:

> " assuming you're from the states "

>What do you mean by that?

I think she meant from The United States (we are the only ones with the

Bill of Rights).

Sheri

>

>

>>From: " Cheryl Overley " <cheryl@...>

>>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

>><Vaccinationsegroups>

>>Subject: Re: religious exemption (my unsolicited advice)

>>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:41:24 -0400

>>

>>Sandy Mintz wrote:

>> > .... I'm wondering what others think about the following

>> > proposition: Everyone who can get a medical exemption should do so in

>>order

>> > that the schools aren't flooded with religious exemptions, tempting them

>>to

>> > try and remove that exemption from the books. Whether or not they could

>> > succeed, I can't say, but they could put up one hell of a fight. Sandy

>>

>>FWIW, I believe the religious exemption is more secure

>>because it's in the bill of rights (assuming you're from the

>>states.)

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( &

women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

KVMR Broadcaster/Programmer/Investigative Reporter, Nevada City CA

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

At 10:18 AM 10/17/00 -0700, you wrote:

> I think sometimes people feel like they are lying (I would

> >if I used a religious exemption in reference to public school.)

> >

>I have heard people say that too.

>

>Well, the whole fear of lying is a ridiculous one. Don't lie and damage

>your kid. Ask people who lived thru Nazi Germany about lying to save their

>lives. You do what you have to to protect your child and because someone

>else makes unconstitutional rules you have to go by them or think you are

>lying?? Think about it.

>--------------------------------------------------------

>Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

I would feel like I was lying if I said I did not vaccinate for religious

reasons, simply because the religion I follow does not have any formal

declaration against vaccinations. I have moral objections to lying, even

for the protection of my child. I would go to other lengths to protect my

child and so I would not have to lie (does that make sense?) It isn't a

fear of lying, it's an objection to lying. That's why the

personal/philosophical exemption is so nice.

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

From: Adrienne <adrienne@...>

Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:47:02 -0500

A short reference to all this....about having moral objections

of lying even to protect your child? WHO IS LYING TO WHOM?

THEY ARE LYING TO US IN THE FIRST PLACE SAYING THESE IMMUNIZATIONS

ARE SAFE. I would not kill my child, I would lie in a minute to save

my children.

>At 10:18 AM 10/17/00 -0700, you wrote:

>> I think sometimes people feel like they are lying (I would

>> >if I used a religious exemption in reference to public school.)

>> >

>>I have heard people say that too.

>>

>>Well, the whole fear of lying is a ridiculous one. Don't lie and damage

>>your kid. Ask people who lived thru Nazi Germany about lying to save their

>>lives. You do what you have to to protect your child and because someone

>>else makes unconstitutional rules you have to go by them or think you are

>>lying?? Think about it.

>>--------------------------------------------------------

>>Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

>

>

>I would feel like I was lying if I said I did not vaccinate for religious

>reasons, simply because the religion I follow does not have any formal

>declaration against vaccinations. I have moral objections to lying, even

>for the protection of my child. I would go to other lengths to protect my

>child and so I would not have to lie (does that make sense?) It isn't a

>fear of lying, it's an objection to lying. That's why the

>personal/philosophical exemption is so nice.

>

>Adrienne

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thought I would throw in my experience here. I have been informed since that

what they told me was wrong (in that yes, this IS what they require, but not

what the law says), but still, this is the kind of thing that you have to

deal with. I wonder just how many parents went along with shots because of

what misinformation they were given by the " authorities " .

As for medical exemptions:

When my son was attending public school in land, I was told that in

order to use the med exemp, I would need thourough documentation from the

doctor with details. I would need to be able to " prove " every word if the

state checked up on me. And they said that they often do. On top of that,

this would have to be updated regularly, to " prove " that the

contraindications still existed. For instance, if my child was ill at the

time of scheduled shots, it would be contraindicated, but as soon as he was

well, I would have to get them done. If he had an allergy to one of the

ingredients, he would have to be tested regularly to see if he hadn't " grown

out of " his allergy. If so, I would have to get them done. Etc....

I guess it was the state's way of making sure that no one was hiding behind

the exemption. And now with the recent news that seizures are not a

contraindication for further vax's, you can't even use that one as a medical

reason!

Also, I had to sign an agreement that if there were an outbreak, I would be

informed by the county health department, would need to pull my child from

the school and provide proof of immunization before returning him to the

school (even after the outbreak had passed).

FTR, the school nurse (who had, in all her years as school nurse, had never

come across a student with the exemptions) informed me that I should just

check off the religious exemp. That the state pretty much just left you

alone for that one and you didn't need to do all of the extra legwork to get

documentation.

Please excuse this for any of you who have already sat through this story.

Katrina

>From: " Sandy Mintz " <sandym@...>

>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

><Vaccinationsegroups>

>Subject: Re: religious exemption (my unsolicited advice)

>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:53:17 -0800

>

>Cheryl, I love what you said about the legitimacy of any and all religious

>exemptions. However, I'm wondering what others think about the following

>proposition: Everyone who can get a medical exemption should do so in

>order

>that the schools aren't flooded with religious exemptions, tempting them to

>try and remove that exemption from the books. Whether or not they could

>succeed, I can't say, but they could put up one hell of a fight. Sandy

>

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[Guest guest]

Katrina, Thanks for your experience. Sounds like the religious exemption is

usually the way to go. Let's hope it continues to be that way.

Sandy

[Guest guest]

Of course Adrienne you are entitled to your opinions and to live by your own

moral framework and others should respect that. The reason people are

attacking your stance is that for some people this is really a matter of life

and death. When you've seen one of your children killed or brain damaged by a

vaccine then you will do ANYTHING to save your other children or

grandchildren from a similar fate, in the same way that you would do anything

(even kill) to defend your children against a mad axman who broke into your

house.

[Guest guest]

Re land laws - i have heard from someone in maryland that the health

department like to harass any doctor who gives out exemptions.

On a related note, it is important that non-vaccinators check all their state

laws relating to vaccination carefully - EVEN IF YOUR CHILD IS HOMESCHOOLED

OR YOUNGER THAN SCHOOL AGE. I discovered some statutes relating to

vaccination in Virginia which seemed to state that parents or guardians were

required to vaccinate their children against certain diseases by a certain

time even if they were homeschooled or absent from school for a long period.

[Guest guest]

At 03:12 PM 10/4/00 -0700, you wrote:

>Just hope you never have to go to court to protect your child from being

>vaccinated. I did and I lost. I'm not about to be a martyr anymore at the risk

>of my children's health.

I'm not sure what you are saying by this statement. I assume it is because

I have an objection to lying, even for something as important as my child's

health. My objection to lying is a moral one, and I can't weigh morals,

saying this one is more important than that one. I'm not in any of the

situations anyone here is describing, so that makes the point moot. I may

or may not change my views in light of any situation I am actually placed

in, not hypothetically placed in. I am especially bewildered by your last

statement " I'm not about to be a martyr anymore at the risk of my

children's health. "

I am alarmed that people are so offended that I say I won't

lie. Obviously, nobody cares that I find lying objectionable, as

objectionable as vaccinations. I won't trade one for the other, either

way. Being dishonest will not help the situation, and I'm not being a good

mother then because I'm teaching my child and awful lesson " If something

isn't going the way you want it, then it's alright to lie. " These are my

morals and my objections. Please respect that.

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

I agree with you. However, our rights as citizens are eroding everyday, no parent should be forced to put their child in harms way. I hope the day will come soon when citizens will bravely stand up and be counted. We need to say NO more, enough is enough and we will not be bullied by a government out of control.

Annette

-----Original Message-----From: Adrienne [mailto:adrienne@...]I'm not sure what you are saying by this statement. I assume it is because I have an objection to lying, even for something as important as my child's health. My objection to lying is a moral one, and I can't weigh morals, saying this one is more important than that one. I'm not in any of the situations anyone here is describing, so that makes the point moot. I may or may not change my views in light of any situation I am actually placed in, not hypothetically placed in. I am especially bewildered by your last statement "I'm not about to be a martyr anymore at the risk of my children's health."I am alarmed that people are so offended that I say I won't lie. Obviously, nobody cares that I find lying objectionable, as objectionable as vaccinations. I won't trade one for the other, either way. Being dishonest will not help the situation, and I'm not being a good mother then because I'm teaching my child and awful lesson "If something isn't going the way you want it, then it's alright to lie." These are my morals and my objections. Please respect that.Adrienne

[Guest guest]

Or perhaps homeschool??

>Cheryl, I love what you said about the legitimacy of any and all religious

>exemptions. However, I'm wondering what others think about the following

>proposition: Everyone who can get a medical exemption should do so in order

>that the schools aren't flooded with religious exemptions, tempting them to

>try and remove that exemption from the books. Whether or not they could

>succeed, I can't say, but they could put up one hell of a fight. Sandy

>