Re: Re: cytogenetics blood test

April 4, 2006

I think you are 100% right as far as the biopsy goes as far as with an

experienced doc. My first one that I had done was without sedation and was

HORRIBLE. It took a good month or better for me not to feel pain any more. The

second one was with sedation and was great, felt no pain at all after. I just

had another one a week ago and I hope to God that I never have to experience

anything that painful again. I had some little Asian girl that probably weighed

80 pounds soaking wet ~ I'm thinking she was a student?? This was done at Mayo

in MN (so was the 2nd one) I woke up twice during the procedure and I remeber

her saying that I had really hard bone. Then when I was suppose to be awake I

realized that something was very wrong. She had to have hit my syatic nerve, no

doubt in my mind the pain was so intense that I felt nautious for about 4 hours

after it was done. I have this huge brusie that's looking pretty ugly right now

just to the left of the site. I would go

through a million labors & deliveries than to have to experience that again!

Sheila

Tracey <traceyincanada@...> wrote:

Hi,

I've never heard of biopsy material containing too much blood to be

analyzed. Usually it's the opposite, there isn't enough cells to be

cultured.

Normally when they refer to a " cytogenetics test " it's a test that's

done on cells they culture from a bone marrow biopsy or a bone marrow

aspiration. I suspect that the " cytogenetics blood test " you are

referring to, is a PCR test which can be done on peripheral blood

(blood taken from your vein).

If you've never had a cytogenetic test done with a bone marrow

biopsy/aspiration, I would think that it would be good to have at

least an initial report done. It would give you a clear picture of

what's going on in your marrow, that you just can't get from a PCR or

any other test for that matter.

A cytogenetic test done from marrow will tell you if you have other

translocations besides the Philadelphia chromosome, it'll also tell

you what state your marrow is in (hypercellular or normocellular) and

it'll also give you an accurate blast count which will help determine

what phase of CML you're in.

A PCR test is important but will only tell you how many bcr/abl

transcripts they found. This will be important to track over time

because it will show you how you're responding to treatment and in

time, will show you if you've achieved the 3 log reduction that we

all aim for.

Unfortunately, some people have had terrible pain with biopsies. It

seems that the doctor's experience plays a vital role in the amount of

pain the patient will feel. The one's I've had, have all been done

with no sedation or pain killers and were not bad at all......I would

have 10 of them before I'd have another baby If your doctor isn't

very experienced in doing them, perhaps you could ask for another one

that is more experienced? The other option would be to take some form

of sedation (there's a myriad of choices out there, from laced lolly

pops to IV drips to simple pills).

Take care for now,

Tracey

dx Jan 2002

>

> I just came from my oncologist. He informed me that an aspect of my

> bone marrow biopsy contained too much blood for analysis. I have two

> choices: another biopsy or a cytogenetics blood test. I know the

blood

> test is a simple blood draw and I certainly don't want to have

another

> bone biopsy. I was totally unprepared for the pain of it all (but

now

> I know) Is anyone familiar with thsi cytogenetice blood test?

>

April 10, 2006

At 09:14 PM 4/9/06 -0700, you wrote:

>Its sad that you feel that the Dr. Has to be a " Tall Man " for that says

>little about the more than qualified women who perform this duty daily.

>News Flash, it's not about leverage for I'm still young with young strong

>bones it's a matter of selection of the proper location and not the

>stature or gender of the person. It's sad but you may have experienced

>some bad moments with shorter women but i assure you, that was an anomaly

>and not the norm. Give all doctors a chance for if you're face with an

>emergency (like I believe we have but forget sometimes) would it matter

>who your doctor is or that he/she can assist you? Hmmm Take a good look at

>yourself...

I'm sorry....but I disagree with your comments.

I have very tough bones (measured at 121% of normal density). When Dr.

Druker, who is tall, does my bmb, he sweats.......but at least he has good

leverage for the procedure.

Dr. Mauro did my bmb once.....he is much shorten and he had a very tough

time. I just recently heard from a patient of his that he now uses a

stool.......to give himself better leverage!!!!

This is simple physics..........if you are tall, you can keep a straight

elbow and have more strength.

If you are shorter and have to bend your elbow, you will not be as strong.....

OH.........and it doesn't matter if the doc is a male or female, but it

helps to be 'athletic'..... : )

C.

April 10, 2006

Hi ,

Interesting--at MDACC they use short tables for the bone marrow

biopsies. I've never thought of this before but I think you have a

point. But I think the solution is to lower the tables, not find tall

doctors. My first BMB done locally was done on the regular doctor's

table which is quite a bit higher than the ones they use just for

biopsies at mdacc and the first was the only one I've had that was a

problem.

Best wishes,

Dorothy

Cogan wrote:

> At 09:14 PM 4/9/06 -0700, you wrote:

>

> >Its sad that you feel that the Dr. Has to be a " Tall Man " for that says

> >little about the more than qualified women who perform this duty daily.

> >News Flash, it's not about leverage for I'm still young with young

> strong

> >bones it's a matter of selection of the proper location and not the

> >stature or gender of the person. It's sad but you may have experienced

> >some bad moments with shorter women but i assure you, that was an

> anomaly

> >and not the norm. Give all doctors a chance for if you're face with an

> >emergency (like I believe we have but forget sometimes) would it matter

> >who your doctor is or that he/she can assist you? Hmmm Take a good

> look at

> >yourself...

>

> I'm sorry....but I disagree with your comments.

> I have very tough bones (measured at 121% of normal density). When Dr.

> Druker, who is tall, does my bmb, he sweats.......but at least he has

> good

> leverage for the procedure.

> Dr. Mauro did my bmb once.....he is much shorten and he had a very tough

> time. I just recently heard from a patient of his that he now uses a

> stool.......to give himself better leverage!!!!

> This is simple physics..........if you are tall, you can keep a straight

> elbow and have more strength.

> If you are shorter and have to bend your elbow, you will not be as

> strong.....

>

> OH.........and it doesn't matter if the doc is a male or female, but it

> helps to be 'athletic'..... : )

>

> C.

>

April 10, 2006

Hi all,

The trick to doing a BMB is having a good technique. My local

hematologist is excellent at it. His secret is to take a lot of time

selecting the exact location and angle in which to insert the needle.

I had a BMB by Dr. Mauro in 2001 and he was using a stool back then. He

did a great job.

I have also had a BMB done by a big strong doctor and he was awful. The

best combination would be great technique, tall and strong, and dark and

handsome for the ladies.

Zavie

Re: [ ] Re: cytogenetics blood test

Hi ,

Interesting--at MDACC they use short tables for the bone marrow

biopsies. I've never thought of this before but I think you have a

point. But I think the solution is to lower the tables, not find tall

doctors. My first BMB done locally was done on the regular doctor's

table which is quite a bit higher than the ones they use just for

biopsies at mdacc and the first was the only one I've had that was a

problem.

Best wishes,

Dorothy

Cogan wrote:

> At 09:14 PM 4/9/06 -0700, you wrote:

>

> >Its sad that you feel that the Dr. Has to be a " Tall Man " for that

says

> >little about the more than qualified women who perform this duty

daily.

> >News Flash, it's not about leverage for I'm still young with young

> strong

> >bones it's a matter of selection of the proper location and not the

> >stature or gender of the person. It's sad but you may have

experienced

> >some bad moments with shorter women but i assure you, that was an

> anomaly

> >and not the norm. Give all doctors a chance for if you're face with

an

> >emergency (like I believe we have but forget sometimes) would it

matter

> >who your doctor is or that he/she can assist you? Hmmm Take a good

> look at

> >yourself...

>

> I'm sorry....but I disagree with your comments.

> I have very tough bones (measured at 121% of normal density). When Dr.

> Druker, who is tall, does my bmb, he sweats.......but at least he has

> good

> leverage for the procedure.

> Dr. Mauro did my bmb once.....he is much shorten and he had a very

tough

> time. I just recently heard from a patient of his that he now uses a

> stool.......to give himself better leverage!!!!

> This is simple physics..........if you are tall, you can keep a

straight

> elbow and have more strength.

> If you are shorter and have to bend your elbow, you will not be as

> strong.....

>

> OH.........and it doesn't matter if the doc is a male or female, but

it

> helps to be 'athletic'..... : )

>

> C.

>

April 10, 2006

At 06:57 AM 4/10/06 -0400, you wrote:

>Interesting--at MDACC they use short tables for the bone marrow

>biopsies. I've never thought of this before but I think you have a

>point. But I think the solution is to lower the tables, not find tall

>doctors. My first BMB done locally was done on the regular doctor's

>table which is quite a bit higher than the ones they use just for

>biopsies at mdacc and the first was the only one I've had that was a

>problem.

>

>Best wishes,

>Dorothy

Hi Dorothy,

PTs (physical therapists) know all about using leverage!! that's how you

work on the big people. At OHSU the table is the standard older exam table

and it is not adjustable. Sitting on the edge, you are at about the

doctor's chest level. Easy for the rest of an exam (ears, throat,

etc)......but not the right height for a BMB. I did have a little chuckle

when someone told me that Dr. Mauro now stands on a stool to do the

BMB........without it he did not have much leverage.

So.....you want a tall doctor........or an adjustable table........either

should work well!!

C.

April 10, 2006

At 09:04 AM 4/10/06 -0400, you wrote:

>I have also had a BMB done by a big strong doctor and he was awful. The

>best combination would be great technique, tall and strong, and dark and

>handsome for the ladies.

>

>Zavie

And someone sweet as sugar for Zavie!!

The other mistake for someone with tough bones is to do a side-lying

version of a bmb, like they do more often in Europe. OHSU had an onc from

Ireland who did it that way....he had a horrible time with me. Without your

pelvis stabilized by the table as it is when you are lying on your stomach,

there is nothing to push against. Finally, he said to me that he needed to

hold my pelvis from in front in order to do the procedure.

Maui Nanc

April 11, 2006

When I had my last bmb done (that was HORRIBLE) at Mayo in Minnesota they had

me roll up on my side. Both times at Mayo that's they way they did it. The

first one that I had done was at my local hospital was with me laying on my

stomach and I was fully a wake and felt everything. You would think that Mayo

would have the right technique! All three times they've done it on my right

side and pretty much in the same spot. Is that normal that they go to the same

spot everytime?

Sheila

Cogan <ncogan@...> wrote:

At 09:04 AM 4/10/06 -0400, you wrote:

>I have also had a BMB done by a big strong doctor and he was awful. The

>best combination would be great technique, tall and strong, and dark and

>handsome for the ladies.

>

>Zavie

And someone sweet as sugar for Zavie!!

The other mistake for someone with tough bones is to do a side-lying

version of a bmb, like they do more often in Europe. OHSU had an onc from

Ireland who did it that way....he had a horrible time with me. Without your

pelvis stabilized by the table as it is when you are lying on your stomach,

there is nothing to push against. Finally, he said to me that he needed to

hold my pelvis from in front in order to do the procedure.

Maui Nanc

April 11, 2006

At 08:33 PM 4/10/06 -0700, you wrote:

>When I had my last bmb done (that was HORRIBLE) at Mayo in Minnesota they

>had me roll up on my side. Both times at Mayo that's they way they did

>it. The first one that I had done was at my local hospital was with me

>laying on my stomach and I was fully a wake and felt everything. You

>would think that Mayo would have the right technique! All three times

>they've done it on my right side and pretty much in the same spot. Is

>that normal that they go to the same spot everytime?

>

> Sheila

Hi Sheila,

I have had at least 20 bmbs as I have been in trials and had them every 3

months. At first I had them mostly done on the right side.......but then I

started alternating. When they auger the hole in the pelvis, it heals like

a fracture and lays down more bone....so it makes it a 'tougher' spot. But

yes, there is a small area that they are trying to find.......if you feel

in the back and feel a small pit or dimple, it is right above that on the

bone.

C.

April 12, 2006

Shelia,

Going to the same location is often the preferred site. Your bones will heel

however, going to the same site does two things:

1) Introduces the needle to an already 'met' location thus making the entry

easier (old/reused site).

2) The chances of extracting a " good " sample is fairly high.

Having said that, if it's too painful, perhaps another site my be beneficial.

(there is no garuantee).

Good Luck...

sheila hoffman <sheilamonster13@...> wrote:

When I had my last bmb done (that was HORRIBLE) at Mayo in Minnesota they had

me roll up on my side. Both times at Mayo that's they way they did it. The

first one that I had done was at my local hospital was with me laying on my

stomach and I was fully a wake and felt everything. You would think that Mayo

would have the right technique! All three times they've done it on my right

side and pretty much in the same spot. Is that normal that they go to the same

spot everytime?

Sheila

Cogan <ncogan@...> wrote:

At 09:04 AM 4/10/06 -0400, you wrote:

>I have also had a BMB done by a big strong doctor and he was awful. The

>best combination would be great technique, tall and strong, and dark and

>handsome for the ladies.

>

>Zavie

And someone sweet as sugar for Zavie!!

The other mistake for someone with tough bones is to do a side-lying

version of a bmb, like they do more often in Europe. OHSU had an onc from

Ireland who did it that way....he had a horrible time with me. Without your

pelvis stabilized by the table as it is when you are lying on your stomach,

there is nothing to push against. Finally, he said to me that he needed to

hold my pelvis from in front in order to do the procedure.

Maui Nanc

April 12, 2006

At 11:31 AM 4/12/06 -0700, you wrote:

> Going to the same location is often the preferred site. Your bones will

> heel however, going to the same site does two things:

> 1) Introduces the needle to an already 'met' location thus making the

> entry easier (old/reused site).

> 2) The chances of extracting a " good " sample is fairly high.

What happens with a bone marrow biopsy, it that a small hole is augered

through the bone (pelvis).....the body heals this just like a fracture

(takes about 6 weeks)....this means that more

bone is laid down the bone actually gets thicker!!! so not easier to enter.

(when a broken bone heals it is actually stronger than the bone was before

it was broken).

yes, there is a 'best' spot to get a sample.....and you only have 2 of

them....one on each side of the body. It is called your PSIS (poserior

superior iliac spine).........I am a retired PT (physical therapist).

If you place your hand on the pelvis at your side.....the rim........this

is the iliac crest......then follow it back and it drops down to the dimple

area...........that's it! the bony area is a little larger here and more

honeycomb like.......so they can get a better sample with an aspiration.

But over time (many bmbs) it can be hard to get a sample, and sometimes

they start getting dry taps.......'my' theory is that with all the bone

healing and laying down of more bone, this is the reason

why.........so, a good reason for switching side to side for this procedure.

C.

April 20, 2006

I have my BMP next week at H.L.Moffit Center. This is my 4th one and I start to

be scared so I asked my doctor for sedation. Is it better to be under Anastasia

and not to feel the pain. Please advise.

T

dxd 1/2003

CCR 7/03-400 MG Gleevec

PCRU pending