Re: Re: Off topic pro life article needed

[Guest guest]

Found these..... First one is one I saw before , but not the one I was looking for.

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/liberty/728/letterfrombaby.html

http://www.freebaptist.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3976 & forum=1

Gosh this letter just really got to me bad...... http://www.geocities.com/stgeoprolife/advocate/arch071201b.htm

Hugs,

-- Re: Off topic pro life article needed

despite two days of searching Nina and I could not find the article. Kathy R sent me a couple, the one to the list you have and I can forward the ones she sent privately too. They are along the same lines though and pretty effective I think. Just good to have as a resource anyway I think !!! If you do ever come across anything like this type of article in the future I would also apprecaite you sending it to me. I don't want to be caught out like this again. Thanks Jules !!!

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all your help on this one . Very upsetting stuff. I am glad that abortion is not legal here in Ireland. We do have people who travel for abortions still though. Heartbreaking, I have to say I hate the definitions given or how things are qualified by saying the baby was perfectly healthy . Why should that matter ??

Same way when people reply to articles in magazines like some of those recently posted on this list . Why do we go on so much about how "good" our kids are ?? As if we are trying to justify their lives somehow. I know that's not what it is but it can seem like that somehow. To me if does not matter how "good" or " low" functioning "a child is. Their right to life (and a happy fulfilled life at that ) is independent of ability or disability. That's the message we should be spreading not going on about milestones reached at such an age or indeed iq levels . None of that is relevant. I don't think we should filter or soften that message . Not for one minute. We work on those things because we want to give our kids the best shot we can to live independent and fulfilled lives in a world ill equipped to meet their needs at times. We don't work on them to justify our kids existence to others. I Know we give these type of examples because we want to try to change false perceptions of children with Downs Syndrome. I have found however our kids do this all by themselves. Its just up to us to keep them "out there " and then they can show people that they are wonderful happy people who are usually a privilege to know and love !!! They do this just by living and working and going to school shopping swimming etc, same as everyone else!!!! That's the whole point really . They lead normal lives. Normal is not fixed and rigid . Its flexible and fluid !!!! We all know that !!!!

Sorry about the rant !!! I am not being critical of anyone' any parent in particular here , I know we are all on the same journey and face many of the same difficulties. I know we all have different ways of coping. Who is to say which one is better ?? Truth is , I if its right for you then its right !!! It does not mean we can't disagree and still wholeheartedly respect what the other has to say and their right to say it. We all want a better life for our kids , common goal!! No question at all about that !!!

Thanks again ,

Ps one little baby was saved this week just in case you were interested !!!!

Re: Off topic pro life article needed

despite two days of searching Nina and I could not find the article. Kathy R sent me a couple, the one to the list you have and I can forward the ones she sent privately too. They are along the same lines though and pretty effective I think. Just good to have as a resource anyway I think !!! If you do ever come across anything like this type of article in the future I would also apprecaite you sending it to me. I don't want to be caught out like this again. Thanks Jules !!!

[Guest guest]

yay for the life saved!! thanks for the info!!! kk

-- Re: Re: Off topic pro life article needed

Thanks for all your help on this one . Very upsetting stuff. I am glad that abortion is not legal here in Ireland. We do have people who travel for abortions still though. Heartbreaking, I have to say I hate the definitions given or how things are qualified by saying the baby was perfectly healthy . Why should that matter ??

Same way when people reply to articles in magazines like some of those recently posted on this list . Why do we go on so much about how "good" our kids are ?? As if we are trying to justify their lives somehow. I know that's not what it is but it can seem like that somehow. To me if does not matter how "good" or " low" functioning "a child is. Their right to life (and a happy fulfilled life at that ) is independent of ability or disability. That's the message we should be spreading not going on about milestones reached at such an age or indeed iq levels . None of that is relevant. I don't think we should filter or soften that message . Not for one minute. We work on those things because we want to give our kids the best shot we can to live independent and fulfilled lives in a world ill equipped to meet their needs at times. We don't work on them to justify our kids existence to others. I Know we give these type of examples because we want to try to change false perceptions of children with Downs Syndrome. I have found however our kids do this all by themselves. Its just up to us to keep them "out there " and then they can show people that they are wonderful happy people who are usually a privilege to know and love !!! They do this just by living and working and going to school shopping swimming etc, same as everyone else!!!! That's the whole point really . They lead normal lives. Normal is not fixed and rigid . Its flexible and fluid !!!! We all know that !!!!

Sorry about the rant !!! I am not being critical of anyone' any parent in particular here , I know we are all on the same journey and face many of the same difficulties. I know we all have different ways of coping. Who is to say which one is better ?? Truth is , I if its right for you then its right !!! It does not mean we can't disagree and still wholeheartedly respect what the other has to say and their right to say it. We all want a better life for our kids , common goal!! No question at all about that !!!

Thanks again ,

Ps one little baby was saved this week just in case you were interested !!!!

Re: Off topic pro life article needed

despite two days of searching Nina and I could not find the article. Kathy R sent me a couple, the one to the list you have and I can forward the ones she sent privately too. They are along the same lines though and pretty effective I think. Just good to have as a resource anyway I think !!! If you do ever come across anything like this type of article in the future I would also apprecaite you sending it to me. I don't want to be caught out like this again. Thanks Jules !!!

[Guest guest]

I think that we all have done that at one time or

another…sometimes, when we hear from an expectant parent, we are so

anxious to give them some hope that their child will have a good life, we tend

to dwell on the”my kid can do such and such” aspect of things.

Of course, I believe that every person has a right to live *because* they

are people…they don’t have to ‘earn’ the right to live

based on IQ or level of function…and I wish that all people felt that

way,,,and I think that most people, after they have been around their child

w/Ds for a little while, are so deeply in love w/the kid that they find that

‘level of function’ isn’t as big a deal as it was when the

baby was young or before they were born. You love your child, period, and you

find that things that you once thought you would not be able to accept are not

that big a deal. But sometimes, if an expectant parent is teetering on the

edge, and really believes that they would be doing their baby a favor by

aborting it, then they might really need to hear at first that people

w/disabilities can live very full lives in spite of the disability, you know?

Did you read this? She says the exact same thing you are saying,,,It was

posted on Down syn a few months ago by one of the moms there..”Justifications

for a Life for a Person with Down Syndrome”

Down Syndrome Treatment/files/Prenatal%20diagnosis/

(and I am so relieved to hear about the baby…good for you for

caring enough to talk to the baby’s mom,,,and thank God she listened;-)

KathyR

From: Down Syndrome Treatment [mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of Sims

Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:05

PM

Down Syndrome Treatment

Subject: Re:

Re: Off topic pro life article needed

Thanks for all your help on this one . Very

upsetting stuff. I am glad that abortion is not legal here in Ireland. We do

have people who travel for abortions still though.

Heartbreaking, I have to say I hate the definitions

given or how things are qualified by saying the baby was perfectly

healthy . Why should that matter ??

Same way when people reply to articles

in magazines like some of those recently posted on this

list . Why do we go on so much about how " good " our kids are ?? As if

we are trying to justify their lives somehow. I know that's

not what it is but it can seem like that somehow. To me if does not

matter how " good " or " low " functioning " a

child is. Their right to life (and a happy fulfilled life at

that ) is independent of ability or disability. That's the

message we should be spreading not going on about

milestones reached at such an age

or indeed iq levels . None of that is relevant. I don't

think we should filter or soften that message . Not for one minute.

We work on those things because we want to give our kids the

best shot we can to live independent and fulfilled lives in a

world ill equipped to meet their needs at times. We don't work on

them to justify our kids existence to others. I Know we

give these type of examples because we want to try to change

false perceptions of children with Downs Syndrome. I

have found however our kids do this all by themselves. Its

just up to us to keep them " out there " and then

they can show people that they are wonderful

happy people who are usually a privilege to know and love !!! They

do this just by living and working and going to school shopping

swimming etc, same as everyone else!!!! That's the whole

point really . They lead normal lives. Normal is not fixed and

rigid . Its flexible and fluid !!!! We all know that !!!!

Sorry about the rant !!! I am not being

critical of anyone' any parent in particular here , I

know we are all on the same journey and face many of the same

difficulties. I know we all have different ways of coping. Who is

to say which one is better ?? Truth is , I if its right for you then

its right !!! It does not mean we can't disagree and still wholeheartedly

respect what the other has to say and their right to say it. We all want

a better life for our kids , common goal!! No question at all

about that !!!

Thanks again ,

Ps one little baby was saved this week just in

case you were interested !!!!

Re:

Re: Off topic pro life article needed

[Guest guest]

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-07-019-v

From: Down Syndrome Treatment [mailto:Down Syndrome Treatment ] On Behalf Of Hope

Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 9:50

PM

Down Syndrome Treatment

Subject:

Re: Off topic pro life article needed

Ps one little baby was saved this week just in case you were interested

!!!!

Praise the Lord! Yes I am interested and I agree with your rant. Well

stated!

http://www.geocities.com/stgeoprolife/advocate/arch071201b.htm

" Born Alive Infants Protection Act of 2001 "

July 12, 2001

This is heart wrenching and completely incomprehensible. How can this sort of

thing happen? There are some things that I simply cannot wrap my head around

and this is one of them.

Does anyone know the results of this hearing? Does this still continue or was a

law passed to protect victims of abortion who are born alive?

Hope

[Guest guest]

How can that Hospital have that name!

I was appalled after reading that letter!

Local ob doctors use Cytotec to " ripen the cervix " for preparation for

induction of babies. Where I work they DO NOT do live birth abortions~!

On Thursday, July 6, 2006, at 08:50 PM, Hope wrote:

>

>

> Ps one little baby was saved this week just in case you were

> interested !!!!

>

> Praise the Lord! Yes I am interested and I agree with your rant. Well

> stated!

>

>

> http://www.geocities.com/stgeoprolife/advocate/arch071201b.htm

>

> " Born Alive Infants Protection Act of 2001 "

> July 12, 2001

>

>

> This is heart wrenching and completely incomprehensible. How can this

> sort of thing happen? There are some things that I simply cannot wrap

> my head around and this is one of them.

>

> Does anyone know the results of this hearing? Does this still continue

> or was a law passed to protect victims of abortion who are born alive?

>

> Hope

>

[Guest guest]

You know what also grates on me regarding this?? Christ is where received some of her very best care and was the first staff I met that treated her not only with respect, but JOY. Go figure... How could the NICU be so good, while the other end of the hospital was killing kids?? While we were there protesters came every weekend too. They weren't well liked in the hospital, I can tell you that. I am happy 'your' little baby has been spared !!! That is cause to PTL. :-) Carol in IL Webber <hrw@...> wrote: How can that Hospital have that name!I was appalled after reading that letter!Local ob doctors use

Cytotec to "ripen the cervix" for preparation for induction of babies. Where I work they DO NOT do live birth abortions~!On Thursday, July 6, 2006, at 08:50 PM, Hope wrote:>>> Ps one little baby was saved this week just in case you were > interested !!!!>> Praise the Lord! Yes I am interested and I agree with your rant. Well > stated!>>> http://www.geocities.com/stgeoprolife/advocate/arch071201b.htm>> "Born Alive Infants Protection Act of 2001"> July 12, 2001>>> This is heart wrenching and completely incomprehensible. How can this > sort of thing happen? There are some things that I simply cannot wrap > my head around and this is one of them.>> Does anyone know the results of this hearing? Does this still continue > or was a law passed to protect victims of abortion who are born alive?>>

Hope>

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

--- Sims <csims@...> wrote:

> Thanks for all your help on this one . Very upsetting stuff. I am

> glad that abortion is not legal here in Ireland. We do have

> people who travel for abortions still though. Heartbreaking, I

> have to say I hate the definitions given or how things are

> qualified by saying the baby was perfectly healthy . Why should

> that matter ??

>

> Same way when people reply to articles in magazines like some

> of those recently posted on this list . Why do we go on so much

> about how " good " our kids are ?? As if we are trying to justify

> their lives somehow. I know that's not what it is but it can

> seem like that somehow. To me if does not matter how " good " or "

> low " functioning " a child is. Their right to life (and a happy

> fulfilled life at that ) is independent of ability or disability.

> That's the message we should be spreading not going on about

> milestones reached at such an age or indeed iq levels . None

> of that is relevant. I don't think we should filter or soften

> that message .

This is true but I think we hear so much junk about prenatal testing,

90% getting abortions when told their baby has down syndrome, etc.

that we feel like we need to defend our side. I feel like I have to

try to get folks to realize they are BABIES, they are HUMANS, they

HAVE FEELINGS, EMOTIONS, they are NORMAL, ETC. ETC. But you're

right, the real message is that all should have a basic right to life

no matter what. When you're battle fatigued though, you step into

defense mode.

Priscilla K

Not for one minute. We work on those things because

> we want to give our kids the best shot we can to live

> independent and fulfilled lives in a world ill equipped to meet

> their needs at times. We don't work on them to justify our kids

> existence to others. I Know we give these type of examples

> because we want to try to change false perceptions of children

> with Downs Syndrome. I have found however our kids do this all

> by themselves. Its just up to us to keep them " out there " and

> then they can show people that they are wonderful happy

> people who are usually a privilege to know and love !!! They do

> this just by living and working and going to school shopping

> swimming etc, same as everyone else!!!! That's the whole point

> really . They lead normal lives. Normal is not fixed and

> rigid . Its flexible and fluid !!!! We all know that !!!!

>

> Sorry about the rant !!! I am not being critical of anyone' any

> parent in particular here , I know we are all on the same

> journey and face many of the same difficulties. I know we all have

> different ways of coping. Who is to say which one is better ??

> Truth is , I if its right for you then its right !!! It does not

> mean we can't disagree and still wholeheartedly respect what the

> other has to say and their right to say it. We all want a better

> life for our kids , common goal!! No question at all about that

> !!!

>

> Thanks again ,

>

>

>

> Ps one little baby was saved this week just in case you were

> interested !!!!

Priscilla Kendrick, married 28 years to Darrel and parents of 9 kids including

Evan, 10, born with Down Syndrome and Spina Bifida

" My strength is made perfect in weakness. "

" My grace is sufficient. " II Corinthians 12:9 KJV

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Priscilla Kathy I understand that this is a very new battle for me and its easy for me to be idealistic. The reality is obviously as you suggest . I honestly don't mind parent to parent. I don't think that's an issue. We are just giving hope , dispelling myths in a way another parent will understand and want to hear . Its just for the public at large that I don't want the message changed or qualified . . I can completely understand how you can slip into defence mode . Your both right , this is just me being frustrated !! I suppose I will get "used" to it , sigh .....

Re: Re: Off topic pro life article needed

--- Sims <csims@...> wrote:> Thanks for all your help on this one . Very upsetting stuff. I am> glad that abortion is not legal here in Ireland. We do have> people who travel for abortions still though. Heartbreaking, I> have to say I hate the definitions given or how things are> qualified by saying the baby was perfectly healthy . Why should > that matter ?? > > Same way when people reply to articles in magazines like some> of those recently posted on this list . Why do we go on so much> about how "good" our kids are ?? As if we are trying to justify> their lives somehow. I know that's not what it is but it can > seem like that somehow. To me if does not matter how "good" or "> low" functioning "a child is. Their right to life (and a happy> fulfilled life at that ) is independent of ability or disability.> That's the message we should be spreading not going on about > milestones reached at such an age or indeed iq levels . None> of that is relevant. I don't think we should filter or soften> that message . This is true but I think we hear so much junk about prenatal testing,90% getting abortions when told their baby has down syndrome, etc.that we feel like we need to defend our side. I feel like I have totry to get folks to realize they are BABIES, they are HUMANS, theyHAVE FEELINGS, EMOTIONS, they are NORMAL, ETC. ETC. But you'reright, the real message is that all should have a basic right to lifeno matter what. When you're battle fatigued though, you step intodefense mode.Priscilla K Not for one minute. We work on those things because> we want to give our kids the best shot we can to live> independent and fulfilled lives in a world ill equipped to meet> their needs at times. We don't work on them to justify our kids> existence to others. I Know we give these type of examples > because we want to try to change false perceptions of children> with Downs Syndrome. I have found however our kids do this all> by themselves. Its just up to us to keep them "out there " and > then they can show people that they are wonderful happy > people who are usually a privilege to know and love !!! They do> this just by living and working and going to school shopping> swimming etc, same as everyone else!!!! That's the whole point> really . They lead normal lives. Normal is not fixed and> rigid . Its flexible and fluid !!!! We all know that !!!! > > Sorry about the rant !!! I am not being critical of anyone' any> parent in particular here , I know we are all on the same > journey and face many of the same difficulties. I know we all have> different ways of coping. Who is to say which one is better ??> Truth is , I if its right for you then its right !!! It does not> mean we can't disagree and still wholeheartedly respect what the> other has to say and their right to say it. We all want a better > life for our kids , common goal!! No question at all about that> !!!> > Thanks again ,> > > > Ps one little baby was saved this week just in case you were> interested !!!!Priscilla Kendrick, married 28 years to Darrel and parents of 9 kids including Evan, 10, born with Down Syndrome and Spina Bifida"My strength is made perfect in weakness." "My grace is sufficient." II Corinthians 12:9 KJV__________________________________________________