Re: Re: [NetWits] Gently political

[Guest guest]

I respectfully disagree. Ballots can be confusing. I don't think someone

has to be stupid to over punch or punch in the wrong place. Some people have

learning disabilities and others may have visual problems undiagnosed. If

you look at the elderly population, this could very well happen. Others may

use English as a second language. Some could go in stressed out (long lines,

traffic problems, who knows??) which can contribute to their confusion. As

my grandmother got older, she became more nervous which led her to becoming

confused. We are happy that she only drove to church on Sundays and then to

the store on Tuesday. That was years before she developed alzheimers. Her

memory was intact and she maintained a great sense of humor. To this day,

even in her alzheimer state, she is no where near stupid. Impaired, yes..but

not stupid. Thankfully she breed years ago or I would not be here today

I don't think anyone can predict right now what will happen in Florida, but I

can bet that during the next elections, there will be more public awareness

and perhaps training on how to vote. I am also betting that we won't see

those ballots like Florida used anywhere in the US.

[Guest guest]

Okay, I can't be quiet ANY LONGER!!! I certainly agree with Granny - if the

voters don't know where to punch the hole, they shouldnt be voting!

BUT...the ballots ARE legal in the state of Florida. There are different

rules for " color in the oval " ballots and the " electronic " ballots. These

ballots were approved by the Democrats, the Republicans, and the proper state

officials - the lady in charge of the voting in the county in question is

Democrat!! There were fewer votes for Buchanan in that county this time than

there were in 1996. There were MORE ballots thrown out this time than there

were in 1996 more more people voting also. And do we know how many of the

ballots thrown out were thrown out because of a presidential mistake? could

there be some that were improperly punched for local elections as well as

improperly punched for state elections? Every county has ballots thrown out

because individuals don't take the time to acquaint themselves with the

ballot. In Florida, all sample ballots were printed in the newspapers PLUS

mailed to each individual registered voter!! I say - count the ballots that

were properly executed and let the world continue!! (getting off soapbox

now!)

[Guest guest]

Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:18:05 EST

>

> I never watch Letterman but this was on CBS news today. He said

>so

>neither Gore or Bush is president. Why don't we just leave it that way?

>Sounds good to me. Jessie

Have you thought about the alternative? The Speaker of the House is next in

line!! Bengie

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[Guest guest]

I never watch Letterman but this was on CBS news today. He said so

neither Gore or Bush is president. Why don't we just leave it that way?

Sounds good to me. Jessie

[Guest guest]

They were refused when they asked for another ballot. 19,000 votes.

Elaine

[NetWits] Gently political

>

>

> > I hope doesn't yell at me.. he's SCARY. I'll make this quick. If

> you

> > want to help get a revote in Florida due to the ballot fiasco, go to

this

> > link and send an email. Deadline is today.

> >

> >

> > http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=9237

> >

> >

> >

> > Editorial staff: http://www.thenetwits.com/contacts.shtml

> > The magazine Press Release is available at:

> http://www.thenetwits.com/press_release.shtml

> >

> > The Net Wits, because together we'll accomplish even less!

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But then Clinton is president for what--forever? Is that a case of two

wrongs not making a right? ;o)

Judi

Re: Re: [NetWits] Gently political

I never watch Letterman but this was on CBS news today. He said

so

neither Gore or Bush is president. Why don't we just leave it that way?

Sounds good to me. Jessie

[Guest guest]

We had a very interesting little piece on the news, thanks to NBC. They

showed the wide variety of voting methods used throughout the U.S. Some of

the ones pictured are almost absurd. They showed how punches can be

inaccurate if cards are not aligned properly ( and they showed how easy the

cards can be misaligned without the voter being aware of that) The state

of the art voting machines are touch screen computers and they were SIMPLE to

use!!

What was pointed out in the end of the piece was the quality of technology

we use to scan our groceries and the quality of technology we use to elect

our president.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/10/00 8:29:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Bonoratoe001@... writes:

<< They were refused when they asked for another ballot. 19,000 votes. >>

One of the good things to come from all of this is what we have learned from

this election concerning our voting system. I had NO IDEA so many votes are

discarded each year. I am very disappointed the officials did not choose to

consider all these mutilated ballots an indicator of a problem and work on

correcting it over the years, instead of just going along status quo. It is

a terrible thing to discard someone's vote.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/00 1:02:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,

mominabox@... writes:

<< I never watch Letterman but this was on CBS news today. He

said

>so

>neither Gore or Bush is president. Why don't we just leave it that way?

>Sounds good to me. Jessie

Have you thought about the alternative? The Speaker of the House is next in

line!! Bengie >>

I believe the current VP would step in .... Gore!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

I can guarantee you that 19,000 people in that county in Florida were NOT

denied another ballot on TUESDAY, the day of elections!! They only started

complaining when the news broke!! If the court orders that county to vote

again, the whole country should be allowed to vote again!! I'm positive that

that Florida county is not the only county in the nation that has a bunch of

" shouldn't be breeding " folks!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/00 8:23:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,

FWB@... writes:

<< I'm positive that

that Florida county is not the only county in the nation that has a bunch of

" shouldn't be breeding " folks!! >>

I have to say, for what should be obvious reasons to everyone here, I have

found this comment offensive each time it has been used. Could you please

add a note of some kind to the subject line so I can delete any further posts

that insult people's intelligence.

Thank you,

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

I apologize for the " insensitive " remark. BUT...folks that don't read their

mail or newspaper and that are not familiar with a ballot should not even be

going to the polls!! They obviously did not know why they were even there!!

And I'm not talking about only Palm Beach County in Florida!

[Guest guest]

Sounds good to me too, Jessie!!!! Maybe even let Clinton stay!!! Hee hee!

Jackie, Mom to 13ds

[Guest guest]

Thank goodness Newt is not in the picture!!!!!

Jackie, Mom to 13ds

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/00 7:23:14 AM Central Standard Time,

FWB@... writes:

> I can guarantee you that 19,000 people in that county in Florida were NOT

> denied another ballot on TUESDAY, the day of elections!! They only

started

> complaining when the news broke!! If the court orders that county to vote

> again, the whole country should be allowed to vote again!! I'm positive

> that

> that Florida county is not the only county in the nation that has a bunch

of

>

> " shouldn't be breeding " folks!!

HI

Truthfully not being that concerned with this election stuff.......(sorry) I

have to comment that many were denied the right to vote here. There was

trouble at the polls with folks who had moved recently or maybe moved a while

back. This delayed the voting process and many were sent home. The judges

decided NOT to extend the voting time. So yes folks can be denied and the

count can be that many.

Kathy mom to Sara 8

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/00 10:18:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,

mregit@... writes:

<< Historically, absentee ballots

in Florida favor Republicans more than Democrats, so the lead

is likely to grow. >>

Is that because most of the absentee ballots are military personnel who claim

Florida as their home state to avoid paying homeowner's taxes that most other

states have?

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/00 9:06:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,

bspyle@... writes:

<< I believe is right. If the President dies, is convicted on

impeachment, or unable to serve for some reason, then the Vice President

takes over. If a President is not chosen during an election, then I think

the Speaker of the House steps in until one is elected. >>

Here's an interesting site that discusses what happens in elections.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ELECTION_collegeguide.html

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

Re: Re: [NetWits] Gently political

> They were refused when they asked for another ballot. 19,000 votes.

> Elaine

Now that puts a whole 'nother slant on the thing, Elaine. I did not know

that. This one will have to be settled in the courts, I guess.

granny

---

God loves everyone, but probably prefers " fruits

of the spirit " over " religious nuts " .

http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

[Guest guest]

Re: Re: [NetWits] Gently political

> I never watch Letterman but this was on CBS news today. He said

so

> neither Gore or Bush is president. Why don't we just leave it that way?

> Sounds good to me. Jessie

Yeah. Let's try it without a President and see what happens, if anything.

:^)

granny

---

God loves everyone, but probably prefers " fruits

of the spirit " over " religious nuts " .

http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

[Guest guest]

Re: Re: [NetWits] Gently political

> No, Bengie was right, the Speaker of the House would take over as

President

> until a President was officially elected.

>

>

I believe is right. If the President dies, is convicted on

impeachment, or unable to serve for some reason, then the Vice President

takes over. If a President is not chosen during an election, then I think

the Speaker of the House steps in until one is elected.

granny

---

God loves everyone, but probably prefers " fruits

of the spirit " over " religious nuts " .

http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

[Guest guest]

With 66 of 67 counties reporting, and 71% of the absentee

ballots in, Bush officially leads Florida with 960 votes. Palm

Beach County is heavily Democrat, and is the only county not

officially reporting, as an injunction has been filed pending a

lawsuit filed by several PBC residents. The unofficial recount

places Bush ahead by 327 votes. Historically, absentee ballots

in Florida favor Republicans more than Democrats, so the lead

is likely to grow.

The news is reporting approximately 30,000 ballots were

rejected in Palm Beach County. Out of those 30,000 ballots,

19,000 were double punched, ie, the person voted for two

presidential candidates. An additional 10,000 ballots did

not contain any vote for a presidential candidate. The rest

were physically damaged and voided.

Butterfly ballots are used in several Florida counties, and

many other places in the US. The butterfly ballot is not hard

to understand if you read and write english. A second grade

teacher used Disney characters on the same ballot form to

give her 74 students a civics lesson. All 74 students filled

the ballot out correctly. Prof Herb Asher of Ohio State University

did a study on ballots and found that in lower literacy areas,

butterfly ballots have a rejection rate as high as one in four

because of overpunching. So clearly, people who are illiterate

or have difficulty reading, make a lot of mistakes. Palm Beach

County may have some of the wealthiest homes in the nation,

and lavish oceanfront hotels, but it also has a very large number

of illiterates who work in those wealthy homes and hotels.

19,000 double punched ballots represent a 5% rejection rate,

and although I agree it is a shame to waste even one vote,

these numbers are perfectly normal for the type of ballot

approved, and used, by the voters of Palm Beach County.

I have not heard any voter say they were refused a replacement

ballot BEFORE they voted. They are complaining that they

submitted their ballot, then realized they had voted incorrectly.

If they complained, they were refused a SECOND ballot and

were not allowed to retract their first vote or vote twice. One

of the residents filing a lawsuit said he marked his ballot wrong,

but when told he would have to wait in the long line again,

simply voted his double punched ballot.

The DNC feels voters were cheated. They intended to vote for

Gore, and for whatever reason, their vote was cast incorrectly

or rejected. They want to hand count all ballots and determine

what the INTENT of the voter was... they want votes for both

Gore and Buchanan to be counted for Gore, as well as a

count of ballots where there is an incomplete punch, indentation,

or mark by Gore that did not register in the voting machines.

Clearly, in a largely Democratic county where Gore had a strong

lead, forcing a determination on questionable ballots will put him

ahead of Bush.

The GOP says this is going too far. It is impossible to tell

how many people got a new ballot and completed a successful

vote, and how many people voted for the wrong person, both

candidates, or no presidential candidate. People make mistakes

all over the country. Revisiting rejected ballots *only* in PBC is

unfair and should not be allowed. The news is now reporting

the GOP may go ahead and get an injunction to stop a third

recount.

A Florida official has come out and said the ballots are legal, as

has every lawyer and law professor I saw interviewed. Yet

, several Democratic Congressmen, and angry protestors

are claiming thousands of Palm Beach voters were cheated out

of their vote by an " illegal " ballot. If Buchanan's votes are not

given to Gore, they demand a revote, and several residents have

filed a lawsuit to that effect. Meanwhile, the GOP is exposing

Democrat fraud in Milwaukee, New Mexico, St Louis, and other

areas, complaining about incorrect announcements that may

have discouraged Bush voters, and demanding recounts in other

areas where they suspect irregularities.

Can we all say President Strom Thurmond?

At 06:27 AM 11/11/00, B. S. Pyle wrote:

> Re: Re: [NetWits] Gently political

>

>

>> They were refused when they asked for another ballot. 19,000 votes.

>> Elaine

>

>Now that puts a whole 'nother slant on the thing, Elaine. I did not know

>that. This one will have to be settled in the courts, I guess.

>

>granny

>---

>God loves everyone, but probably prefers " fruits

>of the spirit " over " religious nuts " .

>http://home.earthlink.net/~bspyle

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/00 8:23:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,

FWB@... writes:

<< I can guarantee you that 19,000 people in that county in Florida were NOT

denied another ballot on TUESDAY, the day of elections!! They only started

complaining when the news broke!! If the court orders that county to vote

again, the whole country should be allowed to vote again!! I'm positive

that

that Florida county is not the only county in the nation that has a bunch of

" shouldn't be breeding " folks!! >>

This election stuff is not something we can solve or second guess. Perhaps it

is time to start seeking other topics to discuss, before this one starts

getting ugly.

thoroughly tired of this topic, nancy

[Guest guest]

> Have you thought about the alternative? The Speaker of the House is next

>in line!!

According to Cokie , the Speaker would pass by the chance to be

president because he would know it would be temporary, and he'd have to give

up the speaker position in the process. So the next person in line would be

Strom Thurmond, who is 98.

CK,

Mom to Ian (2/89),

(9/90),

and Rose (6/94)

[Guest guest]

Could also be the retirees. Older people tend to go more conservative.

Judi

Re: Re: [NetWits] Gently political

In a message dated 11/11/00 10:18:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,

mregit@... writes:

<< Historically, absentee ballots

in Florida favor Republicans more than Democrats, so the lead

is likely to grow. >>

Is that because most of the absentee ballots are military personnel who

claim

Florida as their home state to avoid paying homeowner's taxes that most

other

states have?

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

> watched those Q-tips play BINGO???

This is getting outlandish. Will everyone please think before you write?

CK,

Mom to Ian (2/89),

(9/90),

and Rose (6/94)