Re(2): Fw: Bob Rees - Honolulu Weekly 9/20/2000

[Guest guest]

JB66111@... writes:

> It has been my experience that principals are generally there to

>protect

>the teachers. When my older daughter and some others had a problem with

>a

>teacher in Junior Hi, a couple of us went to talk to the principal and

>even

>tho the teacher was obviously wrong the principal supported him. I

>talked to

>other parents at that time who had similar experiences. J.

Hi!

I think there are four dynamics at work here. 1) Principals do need to on

some level support their teachers or they risk a complete loss of

authority from those they supervise. The big question is to what extent

do you support the teacher. 2) The teacher's union is a very powerful

entity and believe you me, right or wrong, if a teacher is fired the union

will fight the firing which will cost the school system a good deal of

time and money. 3) there is a shortage of special ed teachers (and to a

lesser extent, regular ed. teachers) so, better a bad or abusive one than

no teacher and 4) the kids are " retards " we can get away with this crap

with them because they and their parents are too damn stupid to know

anybetter. There is no way they would try this crap even given dynamics 1

& 2 if the problem had occurred in a regular ed. class. This is where the

arrogance of the administration really shines through.

In my humble opinion of course. :-)

Take Care,

Kent

[Guest guest]

Kent, you said very eloquently what I would have said, but not as well! I

have personally witnessed a principal seem to back up a teacher with a

parent, but out of the ear shot of the parent, tell that teacher what would

happen to them if something like that happened again. We teachers get

accused of a lot, and it's often not true. At our school this past year, a

teacher was accused of sexually harassing a student but this was not true

(if you knew this teacher, you would know how wrong this was!) and the

teacher was exonerated. Now, this teacher is not a fit teacher for other

reasons, but would never be guilty of this type of act.

I strongly feel that keeping bad teachers is due to the laziness of the

administrators. They don't take the time (or sometimes have the time) to

observe and see what's going on. And some feel if they keep a marginal

teacher, they can salvage him or her. But once that teacher gets tenure (two

years in our district), it takes a huge amount of documentation to remove

them. What they do is move the teacher around in hopes they'll get fed up

and resign. We lost two of our not so good and terrible special ed teachers

this year, one in a trade for another not so good and the other was given

his third change in teaching assignment in 4 years. The one we got is not

going to do better here and the principal and I are meeting with him this

week to make sure he knows his duties on the secondary level. Then I'm

hoping the principal will begin documenting the man's poor performance. My

fear is this man will turn the regular ed teachers against us, after we've

worked hard to have a very good relationship and collaborate and include

where appropriate.

I'm a very strong believer in the union, because it protects teachers

against the politics of the school board and the parents. Otherwise, we

could be dismissed for things like political views, sexual orientation,

religious beliefs, etc., without any recourse. And this happens where there

is not a strong association backing teachers. But, like the First Amendment

to the Constitution, we don't always like who it protects, but know that's

the price we pay. I'm hoping for a better way to identify and help, then

dismiss poor teachers. Many districts and unions have already worked out

contract language that does this. We're working on it now but are making

little progress. The district wants teachers to judge teachers, and we're

not for this, feeling that administrators need to do this.

Unfortunately, you're right about how people feel about special ed students.

And this is not just the retarded students, either. I don't think

administrators and other teachers, as well as the general public, realize

that special education teaching is pretty demanding, above and beyond the

paper work. Presenting concepts to junior high kids who read at a first or

second grade level without insulting them with " baby stuff " isn't easy! And

working on several different levels within the same classroom with an IEP

with different goals for each one isn't that simple, either! We had a

psychologist in the district (she retired finally, hooray!) who said in IEP

meetings that special day classes (my self-contained classes) were just

baby-sitting classes and no learning took place.

One of the best things parents can do is to support their special ed

teachers, if they're doing the job, or to let the administrators know if

they're not. And tell your friends what a great job they do! There needs to

be a big campaign to let folks know what a great teaching field this is,

even with the paper work. And you parents can spread the word better than

anyone. Your children have the right to the best teachers available, as part

of their right to an appropriate education. Don't put up with a warm body

using up oxygen!

(The Warrior Princess seems to be back, folks <G>)

Jena, Full Moon Warrior Princess

Re(2): Fw: Bob Rees - Honolulu Weekly 9/20/2000

>

>JB66111@... writes:

>> It has been my experience that principals are generally there to

>>protect

>>the teachers. When my older daughter and some others had a problem with

>>a

>>teacher in Junior Hi, a couple of us went to talk to the principal and

>>even

>>tho the teacher was obviously wrong the principal supported him. I

>>talked to

>>other parents at that time who had similar experiences. J.

>

>

>Hi!

>

>I think there are four dynamics at work here. 1) Principals do need to on

>some level support their teachers or they risk a complete loss of

>authority from those they supervise. The big question is to what extent

>do you support the teacher. 2) The teacher's union is a very powerful

>entity and believe you me, right or wrong, if a teacher is fired the union

>will fight the firing which will cost the school system a good deal of

>time and money. 3) there is a shortage of special ed teachers (and to a

>lesser extent, regular ed. teachers) so, better a bad or abusive one than

>no teacher and 4) the kids are " retards " we can get away with this crap

>with them because they and their parents are too damn stupid to know

>anybetter. There is no way they would try this crap even given dynamics 1

> & 2 if the problem had occurred in a regular ed. class. This is where the

>arrogance of the administration really shines through.

>

>In my humble opinion of course. :-)

>

>

>

>Take Care,

>

>

>Kent

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/24/00 1:41:40 PM Central Daylight Time,

eudora@... writes:

<<

I strongly feel that keeping bad teachers is due to the laziness of the

administrators. They don't take the time (or sometimes have the time) to

observe and see what's going on. And some feel if they keep a marginal

teacher, they can salvage him or her. But once that teacher gets tenure (two

years in our district), it takes a huge amount of documentation to remove

them. What they do is move the teacher around in hopes they'll get fed up

and resign. We lost two of our not so good and terrible special ed teachers

this year, one in a trade for another not so good and the other was given

his third change in teaching assignment in 4 years. The one we got is not

going to do better here and the principal and I are meeting with him this

week to make sure he knows his duties on the secondary level. Then I'm

hoping the principal will begin documenting the man's poor performance. My

fear is this man will turn the regular ed teachers against us, after we've

worked hard to have a very good relationship and collaborate and include

where appropriate.

I'm a very strong believer in the union, because it protects teachers

against the politics of the school board and the parents. Otherwise, we

could be dismissed for things like political views, sexual orientation,

religious beliefs, etc., without any recourse. And this happens where there

is not a strong association backing teachers. But, like the First Amendment

to the Constitution, we don't always like who it protects, but know that's

the price we pay. I'm hoping for a better way to identify and help, then

dismiss poor teachers. Many districts and unions have already worked out

contract language that does this. We're working on it now but are making

little progress. The district wants teachers to judge teachers, and we're

not for this, feeling that administrators need to do this.

>>

Jena,

Unfortunately in our district it seems that the unions (one for teaching

assistants, one for teachers, and one for subs) have gained so much power

that it holds the district hostage. Teachers select their positions by

seniority. The district has no say over where teachers are placed. The same

is true with Teaching Assistants. We've had numerous situations where kids

had to suffer through changes in staff because someone with more seniority

had a position that was no longer needed so they bumped someone else with

less seniority instead of placing that staff person in a position that was

empty already.

I'm not against the teacher's union. I know that they have done important

things and in our state help to keep our over zealous governor in check but

in our case it isn't always in the best interest of the kids.

Karyn

[Guest guest]

In our district, the district still has to the right to move teachers

around. The same with our aides. Seniority decides some things but not who

gets what job. If a teacher or an aide wants a vacant position (these are

posted, with present employees getting first crack at them) they must apply

and interview. This means that we have protection but the district still

retains some control over things. I got my best aide back this year because

of her seniority and mine, in a shuffling of aides when the new teacher

would have an aide that would be a major personality conflict. It would have

been fun to watch, but the kids would have suffered, although it might have

hastened this guy's departure.

Jena, Full Moon Warrior Princess

Re: Re(2): Fw: Bob Rees - Honolulu Weekly 9/20/2000

>Jena,

>Unfortunately in our district it seems that the unions (one for teaching

>assistants, one for teachers, and one for subs) have gained so much power

>that it holds the district hostage. Teachers select their positions by

>seniority. The district has no say over where teachers are placed. The same

>is true with Teaching Assistants. We've had numerous situations where kids

>had to suffer through changes in staff because someone with more seniority

>had a position that was no longer needed so they bumped someone else with

>less seniority instead of placing that staff person in a position that was

>empty already.

>I'm not against the teacher's union. I know that they have done important

>things and in our state help to keep our over zealous governor in check but

>in our case it isn't always in the best interest of the kids.

>

>Karyn

>