Re: My vent of the month......

[Guest guest]

,

Do you think any of the behaviors....like working well in one area and not in

another and resisting going to speech has to do with the changing of classes?

What do you think would happen if speech came to him in the reg ed room?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/28/00 10:45:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

c1ndysue1@... writes:

<< For now, they are redirecting him by removing him from the situation,

taking him for a walk and then returning him to the classroom. >>

I'd advise them to reconsider this approach, !! This sounds an awful

lot like getting to go for a nice walk with his aide whenever he doesn't feel

like doing what's going on in class. I'm sure that they definitely don't

want to REWARD inappropriate behavior, which is what they may very well be

doing.

It sounds to me like there are lots and lots of people on the list having

behavioral problems with their kids at school. I know that people have

advised having behavioral assessments done over and over again - in my mind,

this is the ONLY way that you're going to get past " GO " . And make sure that

the behavioral consultant is a good one!! We had all kinds of problems with

Jimmy in 1st grade (age 7). When a good behavior plan was put in place, ALL

problems disappeared!!

I'd be happy to share Jimmy's behavioral plan (I've offered this before on

the list, but maybe there are some newcomers to behavioral issues!). Just

e-mail me privately if you want a copy to use as an example of a good plan.

(IMHO)

Good luck!

[Guest guest]

's behavior sounds a lot like what we were seeing from Sheila when she

was around 8 years old. In her case her lack of verbal language and her

ability to recognize her capabilities and compare them to her classmates was

at the bottom of her trouble. We started addressing this by giving her more

choices about where she would do certain things. She really liked having her

ST in the classroom with her. So, if she worked well for the ST she would

push in services. If she resisted working than she would pull Sheila out.

Sheila was particularly " Chuckie like " when it was Language Arts time. So,

her sped teacher and I decided to try pulling her out to a small LA group she

had in the resource room. This went so well that we decided to start giving

Sheila more say in where she would learn things. It meant giving up the idea

of full inclusion for Sheila, but it also meant letting Sheila have more

control of her environment, more say in the decision making process and

ultimately that is what we want Sheila to be able to do.

Sorry you are losing the afterschool worker you like. it's hard when this

happens.

nancy

[Guest guest]

I've heard things like this before, , and have witnessed it with alot of

learning support kids and life skills kids. Our children will let us know in

one way or another, and mostly non-verbal ways when then can't handle things.

Inclusion is great and I am all for it, but I know with , he is much

more comfortable academically in the resource room. Luckily he never acted

out behaviorally, but little things that I observed in the earlier grades

such as: twisting his shoe strings, talking very quietly to himself, yawning

a whole lot : ) , playing with his pencil, were clues to me that the regular

ed room wasn't where he wanted to be. We get much better results in the

resource room for . We're blessed with wonder special ed teachers in our

district.

Jackie, Mom to 12ds

[Guest guest]

>I may go and get a box of calgon, wrap it up and send it to her tomorrow!!

, this is a great idea! I am sure she will get a chuckle out of it,

and also appreciate that you are thinking of her.

R.

Mom to (6, ds) and Grace (3)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/00 1:45:59 PM Central Daylight Time, jbocci55@...

writes:

<<

I've heard things like this before, , and have witnessed it with alot

of

learning support kids and life skills kids. Our children will let us know

in

one way or another, and mostly non-verbal ways when then can't handle

things.

Inclusion is great and I am all for it, but I know with , he is much

more comfortable academically in the resource room. Luckily he never acted

out behaviorally, but little things that I observed in the earlier grades

such as: twisting his shoe strings, talking very quietly to himself, yawning

a whole lot : ) , playing with his pencil, were clues to me that the regular

ed room wasn't where he wanted to be. We get much better results in the

resource room for . We're blessed with wonder special ed teachers in

our

district.

Jackie, Mom to 12ds

>>

Jackie,

That is interesting. We had major issues with my foster son in second and

third grade in a reg. ed. classroom so he spent most of his time in the

special ed. room. For fourth grade we just assumed that was where he should

be but then he started up with the behaviors in the special ed. room. Now

this year we are trying a reg. ed. room again and he is doing well.

I must say though that this year we chose a room with lots of structure, not

a bunch of movement and very quiet. We also made sure that none of the other

special ed. kids that he is used to being with are in there. They all got the

fun teachers.LOL!!

This is working so far and even if it falls apart down the road at least he

was successful this long.

I guess I " m for constant evaluation and creativity.

Karyn

[Guest guest]

I agree wholeheartedly with constant assessment of the environments our

children are placed in. Their needs are constantly changing, so I think that

it is our responsibility to get into the classrooms several times a year to

observe them and help in the academic planning.

Jackie, Mom to 12ds

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/00 2:47:35 PM Central Daylight Time, jbocci55@...

writes:

> I agree wholeheartedly with constant assessment of the environments our

> children are placed in. Their needs are constantly changing, so I think

> that

> it is our responsibility to get into the classrooms several times a year

to

> observe them and help in the academic planning.

>

> Jackie, Mom to 12ds

HI

My problem is when I go to observe everything is picture perfect lololol even

my daughter sooooooo I know something's have to be staged also there is

no more popping in, we too have to be escorted in by an administrator. I

havepopped in when bringing something but then again all are on their best

behavior.

I wrote a little snippy note this morning, asking why I have NOT heard

anything in Sara's communication book about Social Studies or Science. Heehee

wonder if they will even acknowledge it lololol

Kathy mom to Sara 8

[Guest guest]

So true, Kathy. I have been fortunate enough to be able to pop in whenever I

choose, scheduled and unscheduled. I wish the schools could see we are there

to help, not to hinder.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/00 2:47:33 PM Central Daylight Time, jbocci55@...

writes:

<< I agree wholeheartedly with constant assessment of the environments our

children are placed in. Their needs are constantly changing, so I think

that

it is our responsibility to get into the classrooms several times a year to

observe them and help in the academic planning.

Jackie, Mom to 12ds

>>

Jackie,

I must say that I'm very fortunate to have a school that keeps trying with

this child and never gives up on trying diffferent things for him. I dread

junior high when all of this will be up to me to initiate, like it is for so

many of you at all levels.

Karyn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/00 3:27:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

KVanRyzin@... writes:

<< I guess I " m for constant evaluation and creativity. >>

We believe that by listening to and watching our daughter's behavior

we will be able to find the best match for her.

nancy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/00 6:26:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

KVanRyzin@... writes:

<< I must say that I'm very fortunate to have a school that keeps trying with

this child and never gives up on trying diffferent things for him. I dread

junior high when all of this will be up to me to initiate, like it is for so

many of you at all levels. >>

One year ago I could have written these sentences, but we have made the

transition. Okay, so maybe we are in the honeymoon period, but I will take

it. It is clear that Sheila is viewed as a welcome addition to the jr/sr high

building. It has not been as bad as I feared and the new team is willing to

make the effort to work with us as her former team did. I do think that all

the planning the former team put into her transtional IEP's (the last one at

the elementary building and her current one) have helped. I'm sure there is

still some team building that we will have to do and I do wonder how the next

IEP planning time will be handled, but I feel much more relaxed about it.

nancy

[Guest guest]

I only have one question, Jena....Would an administrator accompany a parent

observing a regular ed student? In our school district, I think NOT. The

rules should not change for a special ed student's parents.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/00 9:06:17 PM Central Daylight Time,

eudora@... writes:

> As for administrators accompanying parents, there are many valid reasons for

> this. Most parents are just concerned about their children and want to see

> their child in the classroom environment. But there are those who will

> confront the teacher in front of the students, even become verbally or

> physically assaultive. The administrator is there to see that this doesn't

> happen. Would you want your child to see a classmate's parent yell and

curse

> at a teacher in front of the class? The presence of the administrator is

> there to assure the safety of your child and protect your child's right to

a

> safe, hassle-free learning environment as much as possible.

Ooooooh Jena, I never thought about it this way lol I thought all parents

were as gentle as I am Heehee my only problem with being escorted in, is not

getting an appointment right away, I mean here they make parents wait up to

2-3 weeks. A stall as I see it

Kathy mom to Sara 8

[Guest guest]

I've wanted to give the other side of parent visits, but haven't had time

until now. Usually, I don't mind if parents come by. But I do like to know

in advance because I can prepare my more distractible kids for the visit so

they'll stay focused on their work. And I have had students who become

anxious when people they don't know come into the room, or if they don't

know why they're coming. I tell parents and anybody else that might see

Teacher of the Year, or they might see my worst day! I make no promises!

I have had hostile parents who would show up at the door and disrupt my

class by demanding I talk to them right then. I've also had parents who come

in " just to take a look " and wind up walking around, opening cupboards and

storage areas, asking kids what they're doing, in general disrupting the

lesson going on.

I don't have to tell you how important structure is to our students and how

unsettling a change in routine can be. When an unexpected visitor comes in,

it can throw the structured environment out of kilter and upset routines.

And sometimes it even embarrasses the student whose parent it is! This is

especially true in junior high and high school. Now, this is the age when

I'd love more parents to drop in and visit!

Don't feel our unease or reluctance to have you visit is always because we

have something to hide. It's more often because we know how distracting this

can be for some of the students and how it can affect the other students.

As for administrators accompanying parents, there are many valid reasons for

this. Most parents are just concerned about their children and want to see

their child in the classroom environment. But there are those who will

confront the teacher in front of the students, even become verbally or

physically assaultive. The administrator is there to see that this doesn't

happen. Would you want your child to see a classmate's parent yell and curse

at a teacher in front of the class? The presence of the administrator is

there to assure the safety of your child and protect your child's right to a

safe, hassle-free learning environment as much as possible.

You can generally tell when a school is being evasive. They never want you

to come in or will tell you your time to visit is several days down the

road. And when you do show up, there's a sub there! ))

Jena, Full Moon Warrior Princess

Re: My vent of the month......

>So true, Kathy. I have been fortunate enough to be able to pop in whenever

I

>choose, scheduled and unscheduled. I wish the schools could see we are

there

>to help, not to hinder.

>

>Jackie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<I only have one question, Jena....Would an administrator accompany a

parent

observing a regular ed student? In our school district, I think NOT.

The

rules should not change for a special ed student's parents.

Jackie>>

I agree Jackie,

It feels bad to me to *need* supervision by a principal. I feel it is

all designed to keep me in my _place_. Ted won't ever go to a place

that needs to hide this much!

Gail

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/00 6:57:56 PM Central Daylight Time, NEHolroyd writes:

<<

One year ago I could have written these sentences, but we have made the

transition. Okay, so maybe we are in the honeymoon period, but I will take

it. It is clear that Sheila is viewed as a welcome addition to the jr/sr high

building. It has not been as bad as I feared and the new team is willing to

make the effort to work with us as her former team did. I do think that all

the planning the former team put into her transtional IEP's (the last one at

the elementary building and her current one) have helped. I'm sure there is

still some team building that we will have to do and I do wonder how the next

IEP planning time will be handled, but I feel much more relaxed about it.

nancy >>

Unless something drastic changes in our district in the next year I'm quite

certain that this will not be the scenario, at least at the administrative

level, when my foster son is ready to transition. Right now a young lady is

attending the elem. school as her parents have called into effect the " stay

put " clause until they can get their case settled. They want her to attend

the middle school that is the home school. The district wants her on the

other side of town. I also supported a young man with severe autism that we

successfully fought to attend that neighborhood middle school and know how

much turmoil there was in addressing his needs.

I hope things improve by then but am not holding my breath.

Karyn

[Guest guest]

I know my situation might be a slightly different than a classroom teacher, I'm

a family day care provider. I have cared for as many as 8 babies and children

(age 6wks-12yrs) at a time by myself. It often gets very busy, messy, and hectic

around here. I actually LOVE it if a parent comes in to observe or spend time

with the kids in my daycare. I have a greater respect for the parents that do. I

think it shows how much they care about their children and where their

priorities are. I think it's especially important for those parents whose

children are not able to communicate yet to stop in to see what's going on,

which is the case with lots of kids and parents on this list. The older kids can

tell parents what's going on, but the babies, toddlers, and children with

special needs cannot. Some parents don't give a hoot what I do with their kids

during the day (there's a difference between child care provider and babysitter

and they'd be happy with just a babysitter), and it's really nice having parents

who do really care. They all know that if they walk in unannounced, the kids

could all be napping, it could be total chaos, or anywhere in between. No

guarantees, but they can see what it's really like. I state it in my

policy/procedure handbook that they're allowed to stop in ANYTIME for lunch or

for a visit, and if they would like to spend the entire day with us that would

be great but a day or two's notice would be appreciated. I don't have a video

camera or one way mirror, but it also says in my handbook that they can wait

outside the door to listen as long as they want before they leave or come in.

That really helps them know that separation anxiety stops quickly after they

leave and sometimes how different their child acts when they're not there. Yes,

when parents come in, it is very disruptive, inconvenient, and more work, but I

think that the most important thing is that the parent feel comfortable with who

is providing care and what kind of care they're getting for their children

during the day when they're not with them. I've had parents stop in and come

early to pick up their children, then not come for a long time because they feel

comfortable. Lots of time it's just the point that they're allowed to stop in

when they want. Parents really don't stop in or come early that often, so it's

not even a big deal. I think they don't make many surprise visits because either

they've done it before and know I do a good job or they know they can anytime so

I am on my " best behavior " at ALL times anyway. JMHO.

(wife of Rob and mom of 9 month old twins (DS/cleft lip & palate) and

)

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[Guest guest]

Under those circumstances I would have the parent accompanied too. But I

have never been, and frankly, would be very offended if I ever was, not to

mention suspicious, if I was escorted by another person.

I have had a very good relationship with our district. I should mention that

I have rarely popped in, and usually do let them know ahead of time when I'm

coming.

Jackie, Mom to 12ds

[Guest guest]

Any parent going to a classroom is usually accompanied by a parent. In my

school, it's usually a regular ed parent that gets accompanied! I can think

of only a couple of special ed parents that were usually accompanied and

they were ones that had confronted the teacher in front of the students. I

did know of one parent that was not allowed to visit the classroom and it

was my classroom! She had a history of being verbally abusive, using

profanity, etc. to her children's teachers. After one incident with me (my

first year in the district and my first time in 14 years of teaching to have

this happen!) where she came to my room and when I stepped out in the hall,

started yelling at me, she was told that if she wanted to talk to any

teacher, make an appointment. She was so ugly that the male teacher across

the hall came out to " protect " me!

Jena, Full Moon Warrior Princess

Re: My vent of the month......

><<I only have one question, Jena....Would an administrator accompany a

>parent

>observing a regular ed student? In our school district, I think NOT.

>The

>rules should not change for a special ed student's parents.

>

>Jackie>>

>

>I agree Jackie,

> It feels bad to me to *need* supervision by a principal. I feel it is

>all designed to keep me in my _place_. Ted won't ever go to a place

>that needs to hide this much!

>Gail

[Guest guest]

I am never accompanied when I go to my children's classroom. However, I also

never confront the teacher during class room time. If there is something I

really need to talk to the teacher about, during instructional time is not

the time to do it. Most of my children's teachers are very good at calling

me at home or catching me at school since I am there 3 or 4 times a week,

(not ALWAYS in the classroom, BTW) and everyone knows where to find me, I

live right across the street!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/02/2000 6:28:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

Dawn.Shaw@... writes:

<< The two way mirror on the window allows you to see all and the

headset allows you to hear but there is no disruption to the class. >>

They do this in all the classrooms or just the sp ed classes?

[Guest guest]

Whenever I have observed , my intention was never to interupt the teacher

to ask questions.....that's what note taking is for. I sit quietly in the

back of the room. How much preparation does a teacher need for this if she

or he has nothing to hide?

Jackie, Mom to 12ds

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with Jena on this one. My son's school does this really

neat! You let them know when you are coming and they supply you with a

headset. The two way mirror on the window allows you to see all and the

headset allows you to hear but there is no disruption to the class. If my

son saw me at school there would be no work going on :-0. This way I can

stand in the hallway listening for as long as I want. Also, if a parent

wants to talk to the teacher, they should make an appointment. It really

isn't fair to the teacher to expect her/him to answer questions and such

while they are trying to teach and cannot give you their full attention.

JMHO

Dawn (Mom to 7ds)

Re: My vent of the month......

>So true, Kathy. I have been fortunate enough to be able to pop in whenever

I

>choose, scheduled and unscheduled. I wish the schools could see we are

there

>to help, not to hinder.

>

>Jackie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I should have explained better. My son goes to a private school that

the district pays for of my choice. Great place!!!!! He is doing so well

there.

Dawn

Re: My vent of the month......

In a message dated 10/02/2000 6:28:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

Dawn.Shaw@... writes:

<< The two way mirror on the window allows you to see all and the

headset allows you to hear but there is no disruption to the class. >>

They do this in all the classrooms or just the sp ed classes?