Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I was doing a little research on pain levels and found a chart... http://www.scinfo.org/PAINN2002/sld017.htm It seems very accurate. I can't believe that most of us live with a level of 5 or more. Most people just don't understand that at all. I'd say I'm usually a 6 but, I treat it like a 5. I remember the doctor used to ask me if it was sharp shooting or dull aching. I told her that it was sometimes shooting - at about a 8-9 and the dull aching is a 5-6. She looked at me like I was exaggerating. Do you think we underestimate our pain at times because of how chronic it is? LOL...I'm going to go lay down. My back is hurting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I FEEL IT DEPENDS ON HOW ACTIVE WE ARE BEFORE AND SINCE THE SURGERY. MY DOCS Told me to do exercises, and I tried them. Guess what 13 years later. I regret to tell you I should have stayed with them -exercises. PS I prior to surgerys in 89 and 92 I had 3 heart surgeries and After my third one, in 86 I stopped taking ballet. I wish I would have taken Jazz, til adulthood, do you know why? I hated my mom and sister's pasion of horses. and also Jazz would have helped me in the sexual experiences since my sister has had a few boyfriends and I know the riding horses helped her with keeping her man over the years. (her latest love after 6 years just broke up). --- frottola <frottola@...> wrote: > I was doing a little research on pain levels and > found a chart... > http://www.scinfo.org/PAINN2002/sld017.htm > It seems very accurate. I can't believe that most > of us live with a > level of 5 or more. Most people just don't > understand that at all. > I'd say I'm usually a 6 but, I treat it like a 5. > > I remember the doctor used to ask me if it was sharp > shooting or dull > aching. I told her that it was sometimes shooting - > at about a 8-9 > and the dull aching is a 5-6. She looked at me like > I was exaggerating. > > Do you think we underestimate our pain at times > because of how chronic > it is? > > LOL...I'm going to go lay down. My back is hurting! > > > > > > > > > Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with > Harrington Rod Malalignment Syndrome. Not medical > advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any > advertised products. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 " Do you think we underestimate our pain at times > because of how chronic > it is? > > Good Question. My answer is yes. I know I try not to bother people with my pain dilemma. I am definitely at 6 and often higher. I try to keep it to myself because I think they will just get tired of hearing it and not take you seriously after a while. Plus, I hate to sound old before my time. I am thinking though that this is counter productive. Then others really don't understand what you are going through and won't offer you the help that you require. Carol On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:33:50 -0800 (PST) Ellen Kear <ellen_kear@...> writes: > I FEEL IT DEPENDS ON HOW ACTIVE WE ARE BEFORE AND > SINCE THE SURGERY. > MY DOCS Told me to do exercises, and I tried them. > Guess what 13 years later. I regret to tell you I > should have stayed with them -exercises. PS I prior to > surgerys in 89 and 92 I had 3 heart surgeries and > After my third one, in 86 I stopped taking ballet. > > I wish I would have taken Jazz, til adulthood, do you > know why? > I hated my mom and sister's pasion of horses. and > also Jazz would have helped me in the sexual > experiences since my sister has had a few boyfriends > and I know the riding horses helped her with keeping > her man over the years. (her latest love after 6 years > just broke up). > > --- frottola <frottola@...> wrote: > > > I was doing a little research on pain levels and > > found a chart... > > http://www.scinfo.org/PAINN2002/sld017.htm > > It seems very accurate. I can't believe that most > > of us live with a > > level of 5 or more. Most people just don't > > understand that at all. > > I'd say I'm usually a 6 but, I treat it like a 5. > > > > I remember the doctor used to ask me if it was sharp > > shooting or dull > > aching. I told her that it was sometimes shooting - > > at about a 8-9 > > and the dull aching is a 5-6. She looked at me like > > I was exaggerating. > > > > Do you think we underestimate our pain at times > > because of how chronic > > it is? > > > > LOL...I'm going to go lay down. My back is hurting! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with > > Harrington Rod Malalignment Syndrome. Not medical > > advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any > > advertised products. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Apart from how we consciously underestimating our pain, research has shown that people with chronic pain learn to suppress the whole unbearable experience, keeping it somewhat apart from their own awareness. Thus, while they are in severe pain at one level of consciousness, they have learned through long experience to walk around looking more "normal" than they feel. In my experience, this is a semi- "automatic" process that the patient herself may not even realize is operative in her brain and body. Because of it, though, some health providers may observe us and discount our pain or our honest reports of its severity because we "do not look like we're in pain." Irish539@... wrote: " Do you think we underestimate our pain at times> because of how chronic> it is? > > Good Question. My answer is yes. I know I try not to bother people withmy pain dilemma. I am definitely at 6 and often higher. I try to keep itto myself because I think they will just get tired of hearing it and nottake you seriously after a while. Plus, I hate to sound old before mytime. I am thinking though that this is counter productive. Then othersreally don't understand what you are going through and won't offer youthe help that you require. CarolOn Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:33:50 -0800 (PST) Ellen Kear <ellen_kear@...>writes:> I FEEL IT DEPENDS ON HOW ACTIVE WE ARE BEFORE AND> SINCE THE SURGERY.> MY DOCS Told me to do exercises, and I tried them.> Guess what 13 years later. I regret to tell you I> should have stayed with them -exercises. PS I prior to> surgerys in 89 and 92 I had 3 heart surgeries and> After my third one, in 86 I stopped taking ballet. > > I wish I would have taken Jazz, til adulthood, do you> know why?> I hated my mom and sister's pasion of horses. and> also Jazz would have helped me in the sexual> experiences since my sister has had a few boyfriends> and I know the riding horses helped her with keeping> her man over the years. (her latest love after 6 years> just broke up).> > --- frottola <frottola@...> wrote:> > > I was doing a little research on pain levels and> > found a chart...> > http://www.scinfo.org/PAINN2002/sld017.htm> > It seems very accurate. I can't believe that most> > of us live with a> > level of 5 or more. Most people just don't> > understand that at all. > > I'd say I'm usually a 6 but, I treat it like a 5. > > > > I remember the doctor used to ask me if it was sharp> > shooting or dull> > aching. I told her that it was sometimes shooting -> > at about a 8-9> > and the dull aching is a 5-6. She looked at me like> > I was exaggerating.> > > > Do you think we underestimate our pain at times> > because of how chronic> > it is? > > > > LOL...I'm going to go lay down. My back is hurting!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with> > Harrington Rod Malalignment Syndrome. Not medical> > advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any> > advertised products. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Wow! That was very, very helpful. I'd say I'm a consistant 6.frottola <frottola@...> wrote: I was doing a little research on pain levels and found a chart...http://www.scinfo.org/PAINN2002/sld017.htmIt seems very accurate. I can't believe that most of us live with alevel of 5 or more. Most people just don't understand that at all. I'd say I'm usually a 6 but, I treat it like a 5. I remember the doctor used to ask me if it was sharp shooting or dullaching. I told her that it was sometimes shooting - at about a 8-9and the dull aching is a 5-6. She looked at me like I was exaggerating.Do you think we underestimate our pain at times because of how chronicit is? LOL...I'm going to go lay down. My back is hurting! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Certainly some of us will do better with more exercise, but this is a HIGHLY individual situation, and the exercise must be specifically tailored to one's own unique situation.. If you talk to some of the "earliest-online" veterans of flatback revision surgery -- women who are incredibly knowledgeable in all aspects of fixed sagittal imbalance and who have written extensively on the subject for the benefit of others -- you will hear some say that years of very active physical activity were a major factor in more rapid deterioration and progression of their flatback deformities. Most of us were told little or nothing about what we could or could not do once "cured" by an initial fusion. Many of us overdid things for years -- bending, twisting, lifting, skiing, and riding ourselves into big trouble! I have learned that it is dangerous even to depend on the exercise-advice of a physical therapist who is not highly trained in the specifics of flatback syndrome per se. One PT tried to get me to do leg-lifts -- a major no-no and an incredible agony -- shortly before my first revision procedure. I now rely on as much brisk aerobic walking as possible and will probably enroll in cautious aquatics program when my pain is under better control and I am more mobile once again. My dream for some years has been to find a suitable yoga program, but so far I have not found any such program (even within Iyengar yoga) that would be safe and manageable for someone with multiple osteotomies, diverse hardware, and fusion from T3-S1 (not to mention an implanted SynchroMed infusion system which currently seems to be malfunctioning due to catheter breakage or kinking -- which can result from the wrong kind of physical motion or activity). I'm not sure what connection you were making between certain types of exercise and sexual functioning. To my knowledge, the best thing a woman can do to maintain tone in that area is regular pelvic isometrics, notably the Kegel exercises. Ellen Kear <ellen_kear@...> wrote: I FEEL IT DEPENDS ON HOW ACTIVE WE ARE BEFORE ANDSINCE THE SURGERY.MY DOCS Told me to do exercises, and I tried them.Guess what 13 years later. I regret to tell you Ishould have stayed with them -exercises. PS I prior tosurgerys in 89 and 92 I had 3 heart surgeries andAfter my third one, in 86 I stopped taking ballet. I wish I would have taken Jazz, til adulthood, do youknow why?I hated my mom and sister's pasion of horses. andalso Jazz would have helped me in the sexualexperiences since my sister has had a few boyfriendsand I know the riding horses helped her with keepingher man over the years. (her latest love after 6 yearsjust broke up).--- frottola <frottola@...> wrote:> I was doing a little research on pain levels and> found a chart...> http://www.scinfo.org/PAINN2002/sld017.htm> It seems very accurate. I can't believe that most> of us live with a> level of 5 or more. Most people just don't> understand that at all. > I'd say I'm usually a 6 but, I treat it like a 5. > > I remember the doctor used to ask me if it was sharp> shooting or dull> aching. I told her that it was sometimes shooting -> at about a 8-9> and the dull aching is a 5-6. She looked at me like> I was exaggerating.> > Do you think we underestimate our pain at times> because of how chronic> it is? > > LOL...I'm going to go lay down. My back is hurting!> > > > > > > > > Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with> Harrington Rod Malalignment Syndrome. Not medical> advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any> advertised products. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 , I'm not sure I understand part of your post. Are you saying that leg lifts are a general no no for those with flatback, or that they were/are a no no for you? And what type of leg lifts? Am asking as I am doing some as part of my rehab for hip replacement (and as you know I have been diagnosed with " classic " flatback syndrome). Thanks for any clarification you can give, loriann > > Certainly some of us will do better with more exercise, but this is a HIGHLY individual situation, and the exercise must be specifically tailored to one's own unique situation.. > > If you talk to some of the " earliest-online " veterans of flatback revision surgery -- women who are incredibly knowledgeable in all aspects of fixed sagittal imbalance and who have written extensively on the subject for the benefit of others -- you will hear some say that years of very active physical activity were a major factor in more rapid deterioration and progression of their flatback deformities. Most of us were told little or nothing about what we could or could not do once " cured " by an initial fusion. Many of us overdid things for years -- bending, twisting, lifting, skiing, and riding ourselves into big trouble! > > I have learned that it is dangerous even to depend on the exercise-advice of a physical therapist who is not highly trained in the specifics of flatback syndrome per se. One PT tried to get me to do leg-lifts -- a major no-no and an incredible agony -- shortly before my first revision procedure. > > I now rely on as much brisk aerobic walking as possible and will probably enroll in cautious aquatics program when my pain is under better control and I am more mobile once again. My dream for some years has been to find a suitable yoga program, but so far I have not found any such program (even within Iyengar yoga) that would be safe and manageable for someone with multiple osteotomies, diverse hardware, and fusion from T3-S1 (not to mention an implanted SynchroMed infusion system which currently seems to be malfunctioning due to catheter breakage or kinking -- which can result from the wrong kind of physical motion or activity). > > I'm not sure what connection you were making between certain types of exercise and sexual functioning. To my knowledge, the best thing a woman can do to maintain tone in that area is regular pelvic isometrics, notably the Kegel exercises. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 You know, I may be misguided on this one . . . at my stage of flatback, the specific exercise this therapist wanted me to do would have cause me agonizing, +10 pain, which was really my only grounds for calling her request inappropriate. She wanted me to lie flat on my back and repeatedly raise my straightened legs at an angle of at least 45 degrees. Given my condition at the time, including chronic excruciating lumbosacral and posterior iliac pain with interemittent severe sciatica, I could probably have cooperated only while screaming bloody murder for the entire duration of the leg-lifting . . . Also, come to think of it, I do not even know how she expected me to assume a supine position, since at that point I had long since given up on lying flat and was spending my life in a reclining chair adjusted to the twistings and turnings of my rapidly deteriorating sagittal-plane anomaly. Best, loriann262000 <lcmelko@...> wrote: ,I'm not sure I understand part of your post. Are you saying that leglifts are a general no no for those with flatback, or that theywere/are a no no for you? And what type of leg lifts? Am asking as Iam doing some as part of my rehab for hip replacement (and as you knowI have been diagnosed with "classic" flatback syndrome). Thanks for any clarification you can give,loriann >> Certainly some of us will do better with more exercise, but this isa HIGHLY individual situation, and the exercise must be specificallytailored to one's own unique situation.. > > If you talk to some of the "earliest-online" veterans of flatbackrevision surgery -- women who are incredibly knowledgeable in allaspects of fixed sagittal imbalance and who have written extensivelyon the subject for the benefit of others -- you will hear some saythat years of very active physical activity were a major factor inmore rapid deterioration and progression of their flatbackdeformities. Most of us were told little or nothing about what wecould or could not do once "cured" by an initial fusion. Many of usoverdid things for years -- bending, twisting, lifting, skiing, andriding ourselves into big trouble!> > I have learned that it is dangerous even to depend on theexercise-advice of a physical therapist who is not highly trained inthe specifics of flatback syndrome per se. One PT tried to get me todo leg-lifts -- a major no-no and an incredible agony -- shortlybefore my first revision procedure.> > I now rely on as much brisk aerobic walking as possible and willprobably enroll in cautious aquatics program when my pain is underbetter control and I am more mobile once again. My dream for someyears has been to find a suitable yoga program, but so far I have notfound any such program (even within Iyengar yoga) that would be safeand manageable for someone with multiple osteotomies, diversehardware, and fusion from T3-S1 (not to mention an implantedSynchroMed infusion system which currently seems to be malfunctioningdue to catheter breakage or kinking -- which can result from the wrongkind of physical motion or activity).> > I'm not sure what connection you were making between certain typesof exercise and sexual functioning. To my knowledge, the best thing awoman can do to maintain tone in that area is regular pelvicisometrics, notably the Kegel exercises.> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I generally don't post, but have been following the forum for several years. So many that have posted on this forum have given me good advise and information. I was diagnosed with flatback over 3 years ago, but have not had revision surgery. When I was diagnosed, I felt great relief at finally knowing what was wrong with me. I was 42 and beginning to feel like a disabled person. The revision surgeon referred me to a good PT (he would have rather operated) that I have been seeing ever since. Although my condition continues to worsen in some respects, the PT has helped both lumbar pain and posture significantly. I do alot of stretching, although some stretching is definately bad - especially involving both legs at once. Exercises are primarilly core stabilization, and include one legged leg-lifts to build the hip flexor muscles. (I also stretch the hip flexors everyday - it helps with standing upright.) Using both legs would be very stressful on my back. While nothing is a cure, I had to learn my limits and forbidden activities - and stick to it. It's hard given that I (like most of you) was shipped off with new rods and told that I could do anything anyone else was doing. No bouncing, running, sports that use one side of the body primarilly (golf and tennis), skiing, etc. Going to a PT that truly understands your body dynamics is so important - or you could wing up worse, rather than improved. We need to stand up to PTs and others that encorage us to push too hard or do exercises/postures that hurt. Inflamation makes pain worse, so I keep my exercise/stretching " slow and steady " . Manual therapy by the PT has been critical to my pain relief. I have muscle spasms and knots all over that keep reoccuring (probably because they are being pulled at unnatuaral angles and many haven't been used due to a long fusion for 30 years), and cause alot of pain. Sometimes osteopaths can do this and it is more likely to be covered by insurance. Just like exercising, going to someone who is certified in manually therapy and realy understands your body dynamics is key. PT has been far from a miracle cure. I've also had steroid injections, and take medication to manage, but it has helped significantly with lumbar weakness, posture and pain. Its been far less effective with thoracic muscle spasms and cervical/trapezious spasms and pain, but the manual therapy still helped with those. > > > > Certainly some of us will do better with more exercise, but this is > a HIGHLY individual situation, and the exercise must be specifically > tailored to one's own unique situation.. > > > > If you talk to some of the " earliest-online " veterans of flatback > revision surgery -- women who are incredibly knowledgeable in all > aspects of fixed sagittal imbalance and who have written extensively > on the subject for the benefit of others -- you will hear some say > that years of very active physical activity were a major factor in > more rapid deterioration and progression of their flatback > deformities. Most of us were told little or nothing about what we > could or could not do once " cured " by an initial fusion. Many of us > overdid things for years -- bending, twisting, lifting, skiing, and > riding ourselves into big trouble! > > > > I have learned that it is dangerous even to depend on the > exercise-advice of a physical therapist who is not highly trained in > the specifics of flatback syndrome per se. One PT tried to get me to > do leg-lifts -- a major no-no and an incredible agony -- shortly > before my first revision procedure. > > > > I now rely on as much brisk aerobic walking as possible and will > probably enroll in cautious aquatics program when my pain is under > better control and I am more mobile once again. My dream for some > years has been to find a suitable yoga program, but so far I have not > found any such program (even within Iyengar yoga) that would be safe > and manageable for someone with multiple osteotomies, diverse > hardware, and fusion from T3-S1 (not to mention an implanted > SynchroMed infusion system which currently seems to be malfunctioning > due to catheter breakage or kinking -- which can result from the wrong > kind of physical motion or activity). > > > > I'm not sure what connection you were making between certain types > of exercise and sexual functioning. To my knowledge, the best thing a > woman can do to maintain tone in that area is regular pelvic > isometrics, notably the Kegel exercises. > > > > > > > > > > > > Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any advertised products. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 At any large and minimally moderated group like this one, people are likely to write dubious posts from time to time. I wish I could correct all the misinformation or appropriately qualify all the questionable opinions people sometimes post so confidently at this group. Generally I just have to trust that most of us are sufficiently Web-savvy to know that we can not necessarily rely on every statement we read here. I do try, whenever possible, to thank people who send in exceptionally helpful, informative, and medically responsible posts. Yours is one of these. I am very grateful for your comments and strongly urge other members to read and heed your post. I wish you the best in resolving your revision-surgery dilemma. I have been there. I can imagine how hard this must be for you. Take care, and thanks again for writing. "Jane S." <jane434@...> wrote: I generally don't post, but have been following the forum for several years. So many that have posted on this forum have given me good advise and information. I was diagnosed with flatback over 3 years ago, but have not had revision surgery. When I was diagnosed, I felt great relief at finally knowing what was wrong with me. I was 42 and beginning to feel like a disabled person. The revision surgeon referred me to a good PT (he would have rather operated) that I have been seeing ever since. Although my condition continues to worsen in some respects, the PT has helped both lumbar pain and posture significantly. I do alot of stretching, although some stretching is definately bad -especially involving both legs at once. Exercises are primarilly core stabilization, and include one legged leg-lifts to build the hip flexor muscles. (I also stretch the hip flexors everyday - it helps with standing upright.) Using both legs would be very stressful on my back. While nothing is a cure, I had to learn my limits and forbidden activities - and stick to it. It's hard given that I (like most of you) was shipped off with new rods and told that I could do anything anyone else was doing. No bouncing, running, sports that use one side of the body primarilly (golf and tennis), skiing, etc. Going to a PT that truly understands your body dynamics is so important - or you could wing up worse, rather than improved. We need to stand up to PTs and others that encorage us to push too hard or do exercises/postures that hurt. Inflamation makes pain worse, so I keep my exercise/stretching "slow and steady". Manual therapy by the PT has been critical to my pain relief. I have muscle spasms and knots all over that keep reoccuring (probably because they are being pulled at unnatuaral angles and many haven't been used due to a long fusion for 30 years), and cause alot of pain. Sometimes osteopaths can do this and it is more likely to be covered by insurance. Just like exercising, going to someone who is certified in manually therapy and realy understands your body dynamics is key. PT has been far from a miracle cure. I've also had steroid injections, and take medication to manage, but it has helped significantly with lumbar weakness, posture and pain. Its been far less effective with thoracic muscle spasms and cervical/trapezious spasms and pain, but the manual therapy still helped with those.> >> > Certainly some of us will do better with more exercise, but this is> a HIGHLY individual situation, and the exercise must be specifically> tailored to one's own unique situation.. > > > > If you talk to some of the "earliest-online" veterans of flatback> revision surgery -- women who are incredibly knowledgeable in all> aspects of fixed sagittal imbalance and who have written extensively> on the subject for the benefit of others -- you will hear some say> that years of very active physical activity were a major factor in> more rapid deterioration and progression of their flatback> deformities. Most of us were told little or nothing about what we> could or could not do once "cured" by an initial fusion. Many of us> overdid things for years -- bending, twisting, lifting, skiing, and> riding ourselves into big trouble!> > > > I have learned that it is dangerous even to depend on the> exercise-advice of a physical therapist who is not highly trained in> the specifics of flatback syndrome per se. One PT tried to get me to> do leg-lifts -- a major no-no and an incredible agony -- shortly> before my first revision procedure.> > > > I now rely on as much brisk aerobic walking as possible and will> probably enroll in cautious aquatics program when my pain is under> better control and I am more mobile once again. My dream for some> years has been to find a suitable yoga program, but so far I have not> found any such program (even within Iyengar yoga) that would be safe> and manageable for someone with multiple osteotomies, diverse> hardware, and fusion from T3-S1 (not to mention an implanted> SynchroMed infusion system which currently seems to be malfunctioning> due to catheter breakage or kinking -- which can result from the wrong> kind of physical motion or activity).> > > > I'm not sure what connection you were making between certain types> of exercise and sexual functioning. To my knowledge, the best thing a> woman can do to maintain tone in that area is regular pelvic> isometrics, notably the Kegel exercises.> > > > > > > > > > > > Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any advertised products. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Jane,I, too, don't post very often, but do read when I have time. Your description of how you've treated your flatback sounded so familiar, I had to reply. Fortunately, when I had my surgeries in 1981 and 1983, my doctor was reading about the potential problems this surgery might cause and gave me the following advice. Everything you do on one side, do on the other (ex. If you bowl, switch hands each turn). Do not high dive, parachute, or engage in any other activity that might suddenly jolt your spine. Stick to walking; running is a bad idea.Except for Tae Bo, which I modified to some extent, I followed these rules pretty well. I still snow skied, rappelled, completed ropes courses, and lots of other things that pushed the envelope, but I am grateful for my very active, healthy life. While it likely led me to surgery earlier than if I had avoided these activities, I wouldn't go back for anything.One very important detail (that seems to be inadvertently overlooked on this forum) is that flatback shows up in many, many different forms. I have more than one diagnosis of flatback and yet, I do not have sagittal imbalance. That being said, I have MANY of the symptoms shared by so many on this board. When I first found this place, I truly doubted that I had flatback because I had no signs of kyphosis - in fact, I have no lordosis or kyphosis in my thoracic or lumbar spine (two doctors have used the word 'broomstick' to describe what I do have). I had to ask A LOT of questions and then ultimately read it in my medical records, which were requested from every orthopaedic surgeon I had ever seen. I do, indeed, have a flatback diagnosis.The major sources of pain for me have been lumbar stenosis and degenerative disc disease. Two years ago, I walked five miles several times/week in addition to doing Tae Bo and other workout videos. Then, I gradually got to the point that even walking a mile was not worth the consequences. For the record, I am only 34. Like you, I have gone through lots of aggressive physical therapy over the years, including manual therapy. My results have been better with physical therapists than with osteopaths, but I believe this is largely due to experience with spinal fusion. Both PTs and DOs have significantly increased my pain when trying to help and I have learned what is "safe" and what is not and now speak up immediately when that line seems to be threatened.While I have struggled with pain management since high school, I didn't know of my options until April of last year. My revision surgeries were December 13 and 20, 2005, and as a result of a screw that decided to find a nerve, I will undergo a delayed stage II on January 26. I have already experienced COMPLETE relief from the stenosis pain and count my surgeries 100% worth the unpleasantries that accompany such an endeavor.The only 'complaint' that I might have would be this...Since my sagittal balance is great (most likely due to high fitness levels and an effort to maintain core strength and flexibility over the years), osteotomies were not necessary. Therefore, I will not gain much of a back waist post-op and my minimal visible deformity is virtually unchanged. I still have somewhat of an adolescent figure (just call me Skipper). While I do feel ever so slightly jealous when I look at the beautiful lordosis gained by some post-revision, I am amazed and in awe at the skill of my brilliant surgeon, Dr. Bridwell, for giving me a shot at a pain-free life. If and when you get to the point where surgery is your choice, I wish you equal or greater success.To all who deal with the infirmity of flatback, please take care of your spine. Someone posted the other day that our spines are not designed to be fused and that we will all naturally have issues when that mobility is removed. I agree wholeheartedly and I am grateful to the person that brought this up. At the same time, mindfulness of this fact will alter my activities, hopefully, to the extent that I can adequately preserve the rest of my skeleton. It will be far easier to do the best I can with what I've got in the absence of pain!Thank you for posting!kam>> I generally don't post, but have been following the forum for > several years. So many that have posted on this forum have given me > good advise and information. I was diagnosed with flatback over 3 > years ago, but have not had revision surgery. When I was diagnosed, > I felt great relief at finally knowing what was wrong with me. I > was 42 and beginning to feel like a disabled person. The revision > surgeon referred me to a good PT (he would have rather operated) > that I have been seeing ever since. Although my condition continues > to worsen in some respects, the PT has helped both lumbar pain and > posture significantly. > > I do alot of stretching, although some stretching is definately bad -> especially involving both legs at once. Exercises are primarilly > core stabilization, and include one legged leg-lifts to build the > hip flexor muscles. (I also stretch the hip flexors everyday - it > helps with standing upright.) Using both legs would be very > stressful on my back. While nothing is a cure, I had to learn my > limits and forbidden activities - and stick to it. It's hard given > that I (like most of you) was shipped off with new rods and told > that I could do anything anyone else was doing. No bouncing, > running, sports that use one side of the body primarilly (golf and > tennis), skiing, etc. Going to a PT that truly understands your > body dynamics is so important - or you could wing up worse, rather > than improved. We need to stand up to PTs and others that encorage > us to push too hard or do exercises/postures that hurt. Inflamation > makes pain worse, so I keep my exercise/stretching "slow and > steady". > > Manual therapy by the PT has been critical to my pain relief. I > have muscle spasms and knots all over that keep reoccuring (probably > because they are being pulled at unnatuaral angles and many haven't > been used due to a long fusion for 30 years), and cause alot of > pain. Sometimes osteopaths can do this and it is more likely to be > covered by insurance. Just like exercising, going to someone who is > certified in manually therapy and realy understands your body > dynamics is key. > > PT has been far from a miracle cure. I've also had steroid > injections, and take medication to manage, but it has helped > significantly with lumbar weakness, posture and pain. Its been far > less effective with thoracic muscle spasms and cervical/trapezious > spasms and pain, but the manual therapy still helped with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hi, Kam -- I enjoyed your letter. You raise some worthwhile and thoughful points. You are certainly in good hands with Dr. Bridwell, from everything I have heard. I must admit I am a little hazy on your definition of flatback syndrome. Medically, this term is synonymous with fixed sagittal imbalance or loss of lumbar lordosis. Best, advokam <advokam@...> wrote: Jane, I, too, don't post very often, but do read when I have time. Your description of how you've treated your flatback sounded so familiar, I had to reply. Fortunately, when I had my surgeries in 1981 and 1983, my doctor was reading about the potential problems this surgery might cause and gave me the following advice. Everything you do on one side, do on the other (ex. If you bowl, switch hands each turn). Do not high dive, parachute, or engage in any other activity that might suddenly jolt your spine. Stick to walking; running is a bad idea. Except for Tae Bo, which I modified to some extent, I followed these rules pretty well. I still snow skied, rappelled, completed ropes courses, and lots of other things that pushed the envelope, but I am grateful for my very active, healthy life. While it likely led me to surgery earlier than if I had avoided these activities, I wouldn't go back for anything. One very important detail (that seems to be inadvertently overlooked on this forum) is that flatback shows up in many, many different forms. I have more than one diagnosis of flatback and yet, I do not have sagittal imbalance. That being said, I have MANY of the symptoms shared by so many on this board. When I first found this place, I truly doubted that I had flatback because I had no signs of kyphosis - in fact, I have no lordosis or kyphosis in my thoracic or lumbar spine (two doctors have used the word 'broomstick' to describe what I do have). I had to ask A LOT of questions and then ultimately read it in my medical records, which were requested from every orthopaedic surgeon I had ever seen. I do, indeed, have a flatback diagnosis. The major sources of pain for me have been lumbar stenosis and degenerative disc disease. Two years ago, I walked five miles several times/week in addition to doing Tae Bo and other workout videos. Then, I gradually got to the point that even walking a mile was not worth the consequences. For the record, I am only 34. Like you, I have gone through lots of aggressive physical therapy over the years, including manual therapy. My results have been better with physical therapists than with osteopaths, but I believe this is largely due to experience with spinal fusion. Both PTs and DOs have significantly increased my pain when trying to help and I have learned what is "safe" and what is not and now speak up immediately when that line seems to be threatened. While I have struggled with pain management since high school, I didn't know of my options until April of last year. My revision surgeries were December 13 and 20, 2005, and as a result of a screw that decided to find a nerve, I will undergo a delayed stage II on January 26. I have already experienced COMPLETE relief from the stenosis pain and count my surgeries 100% worth the unpleasantries that accompany such an endeavor. The only 'complaint' that I might have would be this...Since my sagittal balance is great (most likely due to high fitness levels and an effort to maintain core strength and flexibility over the years), osteotomies were not necessary. Therefore, I will not gain much of a back waist post-op and my minimal visible deformity is virtually unchanged. I still have somewhat of an adolescent figure (just call me Skipper). While I do feel ever so slightly jealous when I look at the beautiful lordosis gained by some post-revision, I am amazed and in awe at the skill of my brilliant surgeon, Dr. Bridwell, for giving me a shot at a pain-free life. If and when you get to the point where surgery is your choice, I wish you equal or ! greater success. To all who deal with the infirmity of flatback, please take care of your spine. Someone posted the other day that our spines are not designed to be fused and that we will all naturally have issues when that mobility is removed. I agree wholeheartedly and I am grateful to the person that brought this up. At the same time, mindfulness of this fact will alter my activities, hopefully, to the extent that I can adequately preserve the rest of my skeleton. It will be far easier to do the best I can with what I've got in the absence of pain! Thank you for posting! kam >> I generally don't post, but have been following the forum for > several years. So many that have posted on this forum have given me > good advise and information. I was diagnosed with flatback over 3 > years ago, but have not had revision surgery. When I was diagnosed, > I felt great relief at finally knowing what was wrong with me. I > was 42 and beginning to feel like a disabled person. The revision > surgeon referred me to a good PT (he would have rather operated) > that I have been seeing ever since. Although my condition continues > to worsen in some respects, the PT has helped both lumbar pain and > posture significantly. > > I do alot of stretching, although some stretching is definately bad -> especially involving both legs at once. Exercises are primarilly > core stabilization, and include one legged leg-lifts to build the > hip flexor muscles. (I also stretch the hip flexors everyday - it > helps with standing upright.) Using both legs would b! e very < br>> stressful on my back. While nothing is a cure, I had to learn my > limits and forbidden activities - and stick to it. It's hard given > that I (like most of you) was shipped off with new rods and told > that I could do anything anyone else was doing. No bouncing, > running, sports that use one side of the body primarilly (golf and > tennis), skiing, etc. Going to a PT that truly understands your > body dynamics is so important - or you could wing up worse, rather > than improved. We need to stand up to PTs and others that encorage > us to push too hard or do exercises/postures that hurt. Inflamation > makes pain worse, so I keep my exercise/stretching "slow and > steady". > > Manual therapy by the PT has been critical to my pain relief. I > have muscle spasms and knots all over that keep reoccuring (probably > because they are being pulled at unnatuaral angles and many haven't > been used due to a long fusion for 30 years), and cause alot of > pain. Sometimes osteopaths can do this and it is more likely to be > covered by insurance. Just like exercising, going to someone who is > certified in manually therapy and realy understands your body > dynamics is key. > > PT has been far from a miracle cure. I've also had steroid > injections, and take medication to manage, but it has helped > significantly with lumbar weakness, posture and pain. Its been far > less effective with thoracic muscle spasms and cervical/trapezious > spasms and pain, but the manual therapy still helped with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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