Re: aspirin versus NSAIDs etc

[Guest guest]

Oh dear another new thread (?)

My final thoughts on this are:-

TO summarise:-

Well Known Fact #1- LOW DOSE Aspirin is used worldwide to thin blood

to help potential heart attack victims etc (nothing new here Lori -

basic stuff)

Apparent fact #1- Some NSAIDs are bad for the heart but,

Apparent fact #2- no-one knows what HIGH DOSE aspirin regimes do to

the body (aside from GI upsets/ulcers,easy bruising = known facts)

My Valid Concern: - other NSAIDs cause 'damage' to hearts via

certain mechanisms, so are these mechanisms also involved in high

dose aspirin regimes? = problems for Samters sufferers maintaining

desensitisation on high dose aspirin.

Your claim #1- some people with Samters are using COX2 inhibs to

maintain desensitisation to aspirin - I look forward to read about

any such people on the Samters discussion group.

> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

>because it is proprietary information I received through my job,

>and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the

>only way I can get this information out without violating

>confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I

>say in this area.

Indeed YOU do need to be more careful, SOME of your posts to this

group that I have read in recent months have been medically ill-

informed, doubtful and/or misleading. Quite what your job &

qualifications are bewilder me but I would be amazed (and concerned)

if you were professionally involved in (Western) medicine in any way.

take more care y'all

Andy (UK)

>

> Andy,

>

> Perhaps you have misunderstood my response. I believe the reason

aspirin is not in the paper I posted is because it is not

cardiotoxic. It is GIVEN to heart patients and those preventing

myocardial infarctions and strokes. I'm sorry, perhaps I

misunderstood your original question.

>

> Aspirin can perhaps be toxic in other ways, especially to the GI

system, but I have never heard of it being toxic or poisonous to the

heart. And it is also known in other areas to possibly prevent some

cancers (such as one type of breast cancer and colon cancer) while

possibly increasing the risk for others (such as the type of breast

cancer that I had).

>

> Aspirin is an NSAID, yes, and certainly it is the first NSAID, but

I think it was only named that in retrospect. Generally people

say " aspirins and all NSAIDs " or something of the sort .... I don't

think it is always included in the category when people use the

category. Technically it is one, but it is unique, and usually (I

think) NSAIDs means all the " other " NSAIDs.

>

> For instance, when I put on my medical forms that I am allergic to

aspirin and NSAIDs, I don't just put NSAIDs, I have to put aspirin

specifically. I didn't say that aspirin was not an NSAID, or if I

did that is not what I meant. What I meant was that for the

purposes of this article, it is not included in the NSAIDs that they

are talking about.

>

> I have not looked up any information on aspirin causing heart

attacks because I thought it prevented them and it might be

difficult to find any information saying the opposite. Perhaps you

could do a PubMed search or something of the sort if you are

extremely concerned about this.

>

> This is just my opinion, but I think given the new data coming out

about the cardiotoxic effects of the specific NSAIDs/COX-2

inhibitors mentioned in the article, that to take any of these in

high doses to maintain desensitization would be foolish. As far as

I know there is no data on this, but some members have mentioned in

the past that they have tried it.

>

> Maybe this will help explain it: " Aspirin is a unique NSAID, not

only because of its many uses, but because it is the only NSAID that

is able to inhibit the clotting of blood for a prolonged period (4

to 7 days). This prolonged effect of aspirin makes it an ideal drug

for preventing the blood clots that cause heart attacks and strokes. "

>

> from

http://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/articl

e.htm

>

> Part of the problem with all of this is that the mechanism of

these cardiotoxic effects of the other NSAIDs besides aspirin is not

known.

>

> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

because it is proprietary information I received through my job, and

that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the only

way I can get this information out without violating confidentiality

agreements. So I have to be very careful what I say in this area.

>

> Lori

>

[Guest guest]

Andy,

Your concerns are valid and interesting, but it is almost impossible to have

a conversation with you because your tone is so harsh! Please try to keep

the dialog friendly.

Pam

On 9/25/06 9:23 AM, " andy_tash2 " <opal__fruit@...> wrote:

> Oh dear another new thread (?)

>

> My final thoughts on this are:-

>

> TO summarise:-

> Well Known Fact #1- LOW DOSE Aspirin is used worldwide to thin blood

> to help potential heart attack victims etc (nothing new here Lori -

> basic stuff)

>

> Apparent fact #1- Some NSAIDs are bad for the heart but,

> Apparent fact #2- no-one knows what HIGH DOSE aspirin regimes do to

> the body (aside from GI upsets/ulcers,easy bruising = known facts)

>

> My Valid Concern: - other NSAIDs cause 'damage' to hearts via

> certain mechanisms, so are these mechanisms also involved in high

> dose aspirin regimes? = problems for Samters sufferers maintaining

> desensitisation on high dose aspirin.

>

> Your claim #1- some people with Samters are using COX2 inhibs to

> maintain desensitisation to aspirin - I look forward to read about

> any such people on the Samters discussion group.

>

>> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

>> because it is proprietary information I received through my job,

>> and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the

>> only way I can get this information out without violating

>> confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I

>> say in this area.

>

> Indeed YOU do need to be more careful, SOME of your posts to this

> group that I have read in recent months have been medically ill-

> informed, doubtful and/or misleading. Quite what your job &

> qualifications are bewilder me but I would be amazed (and concerned)

> if you were professionally involved in (Western) medicine in any way.

>

> take more care y'all

> Andy (UK)

>

>

>>

>> Andy,

>>

>> Perhaps you have misunderstood my response. I believe the reason

> aspirin is not in the paper I posted is because it is not

> cardiotoxic. It is GIVEN to heart patients and those preventing

> myocardial infarctions and strokes. I'm sorry, perhaps I

> misunderstood your original question.

>>

>> Aspirin can perhaps be toxic in other ways, especially to the GI

> system, but I have never heard of it being toxic or poisonous to the

> heart. And it is also known in other areas to possibly prevent some

> cancers (such as one type of breast cancer and colon cancer) while

> possibly increasing the risk for others (such as the type of breast

> cancer that I had).

>>

>> Aspirin is an NSAID, yes, and certainly it is the first NSAID, but

> I think it was only named that in retrospect. Generally people

> say " aspirins and all NSAIDs " or something of the sort .... I don't

> think it is always included in the category when people use the

> category. Technically it is one, but it is unique, and usually (I

> think) NSAIDs means all the " other " NSAIDs.

>>

>> For instance, when I put on my medical forms that I am allergic to

> aspirin and NSAIDs, I don't just put NSAIDs, I have to put aspirin

> specifically. I didn't say that aspirin was not an NSAID, or if I

> did that is not what I meant. What I meant was that for the

> purposes of this article, it is not included in the NSAIDs that they

> are talking about.

>>

>> I have not looked up any information on aspirin causing heart

> attacks because I thought it prevented them and it might be

> difficult to find any information saying the opposite. Perhaps you

> could do a PubMed search or something of the sort if you are

> extremely concerned about this.

>>

>> This is just my opinion, but I think given the new data coming out

> about the cardiotoxic effects of the specific NSAIDs/COX-2

> inhibitors mentioned in the article, that to take any of these in

> high doses to maintain desensitization would be foolish. As far as

> I know there is no data on this, but some members have mentioned in

> the past that they have tried it.

>>

>> Maybe this will help explain it: " Aspirin is a unique NSAID, not

> only because of its many uses, but because it is the only NSAID that

> is able to inhibit the clotting of blood for a prolonged period (4

> to 7 days). This prolonged effect of aspirin makes it an ideal drug

> for preventing the blood clots that cause heart attacks and strokes. "

>>

>> from

> http://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/articl

> e.htm

>>

>> Part of the problem with all of this is that the mechanism of

> these cardiotoxic effects of the other NSAIDs besides aspirin is not

> known.

>>

>> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

> because it is proprietary information I received through my job, and

> that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the only

> way I can get this information out without violating confidentiality

> agreements. So I have to be very careful what I say in this area.

>>

>> Lori

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree Carol

Re: Re: aspirin versus NSAIDs etc

Andy,Your concerns are valid and interesting, but it is almost impossible to havea conversation with you because your tone is so harsh! Please try to keepthe dialog friendly.PamOn 9/25/06 9:23 AM, "andy_tash2" <opal__fruithotmail (DOT) co.uk> wrote:> Oh dear another new thread (?)> > My final thoughts on this are:-> > TO summarise:-> Well Known Fact #1- LOW DOSE Aspirin is used worldwide to thin blood> to help potential heart attack victims etc (nothing new here Lori -> basic stuff)> > Apparent fact #1- Some NSAIDs are bad for the heart but,> Apparent fact #2- no-one knows what HIGH DOSE aspirin regimes do to> the body (aside from GI upsets/ulcers,easy bruising = known facts)> > My Valid Concern: - other NSAIDs cause 'damage' to hearts via> certain mechanisms, so are these mechanisms also involved in high> dose aspirin regimes? = problems for Samters sufferers maintaining> desensitisation on high dose aspirin.> > Your claim #1- some people with Samters are using COX2 inhibs to> maintain desensitisation to aspirin - I look forward to read about> any such people on the Samters discussion group.> >> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about>> because it is proprietary information I received through my job,>> and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the>> only way I can get this information out without violating>> confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I>> say in this area.> > Indeed YOU do need to be more careful, SOME of your posts to this> group that I have read in recent months have been medically ill-> informed, doubtful and/or misleading. Quite what your job & > qualifications are bewilder me but I would be amazed (and concerned)> if you were professionally involved in (Western) medicine in any way.> > take more care y'all> Andy (UK)> > >> >> Andy,>> >> Perhaps you have misunderstood my response. I believe the reason> aspirin is not in the paper I posted is because it is not> cardiotoxic. It is GIVEN to heart patients and those preventing> myocardial infarctions and strokes. I'm sorry, perhaps I> misunderstood your original question.>> >> Aspirin can perhaps be toxic in other ways, especially to the GI> system, but I have never heard of it being toxic or poisonous to the> heart. And it is also known in other areas to possibly prevent some> cancers (such as one type of breast cancer and colon cancer) while> possibly increasing the risk for others (such as the type of breast> cancer that I had).>> >> Aspirin is an NSAID, yes, and certainly it is the first NSAID, but> I think it was only named that in retrospect. Generally people> say "aspirins and all NSAIDs" or something of the sort .... I don't> think it is always included in the category when people use the> category. Technically it is one, but it is unique, and usually (I> think) NSAIDs means all the "other" NSAIDs.>> >> For instance, when I put on my medical forms that I am allergic to> aspirin and NSAIDs, I don't just put NSAIDs, I have to put aspirin> specifically. I didn't say that aspirin was not an NSAID, or if I> did that is not what I meant. What I meant was that for the> purposes of this article, it is not included in the NSAIDs that they> are talking about.>> >> I have not looked up any information on aspirin causing heart> attacks because I thought it prevented them and it might be> difficult to find any information saying the opposite. Perhaps you> could do a PubMed search or something of the sort if you are> extremely concerned about this.>> >> This is just my opinion, but I think given the new data coming out> about the cardiotoxic effects of the specific NSAIDs/COX-2> inhibitors mentioned in the article, that to take any of these in> high doses to maintain desensitization would be foolish. As far as> I know there is no data on this, but some members have mentioned in> the past that they have tried it.>> >> Maybe this will help explain it: "Aspirin is a unique NSAID, not> only because of its many uses, but because it is the only NSAID that> is able to inhibit the clotting of blood for a prolonged period (4> to 7 days). This prolonged effect of aspirin makes it an ideal drug> for preventing the blood clots that cause heart attacks and strokes.">> >> from > http://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/articl> e.htm>> >> Part of the problem with all of this is that the mechanism of> these cardiotoxic effects of the other NSAIDs besides aspirin is not> known. >> >> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about> because it is proprietary information I received through my job, and> that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the only> way I can get this information out without violating confidentiality> agreements. So I have to be very careful what I say in this area.>> >> Lori>> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Andy.

I am really sorry to have upset you so much. I never claimed to be a practitioner of medicine. I am not.

I care a lot about this group, but I guess I need to take a break.

See you all

Lori

Re: aspirin versus NSAIDs etc

Oh dear another new thread (?)My final thoughts on this are:-TO summarise:-Well Known Fact #1- LOW DOSE Aspirin is used worldwide to thin blood to help potential heart attack victims etc (nothing new here Lori -basic stuff)Apparent fact #1- Some NSAIDs are bad for the heart but,Apparent fact #2- no-one knows what HIGH DOSE aspirin regimes do to the body (aside from GI upsets/ulcers,easy bruising = known facts)My Valid Concern: - other NSAIDs cause 'damage' to hearts via certain mechanisms, so are these mechanisms also involved in high dose aspirin regimes? = problems for Samters sufferers maintaining desensitisation on high dose aspirin.Your claim #1- some people with Samters are using COX2 inhibs to maintain desensitisation to aspirin - I look forward to read about any such people on the Samters discussion group.> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about >because it is proprietary information I received through my job, >and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the >only way I can get this information out without violating >confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I >say in this area.Indeed YOU do need to be more careful, SOME of your posts to this group that I have read in recent months have been medically ill-informed, doubtful and/or misleading. Quite what your job & qualifications are bewilder me but I would be amazed (and concerned) if you were professionally involved in (Western) medicine in any way.take more care y'allAndy (UK)>> Andy,> > Perhaps you have misunderstood my response. I believe the reason aspirin is not in the paper I posted is because it is not cardiotoxic. It is GIVEN to heart patients and those preventing myocardial infarctions and strokes. I'm sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your original question. > > Aspirin can perhaps be toxic in other ways, especially to the GI system, but I have never heard of it being toxic or poisonous to the heart. And it is also known in other areas to possibly prevent some cancers (such as one type of breast cancer and colon cancer) while possibly increasing the risk for others (such as the type of breast cancer that I had).> > Aspirin is an NSAID, yes, and certainly it is the first NSAID, but I think it was only named that in retrospect. Generally people say "aspirins and all NSAIDs" or something of the sort .... I don't think it is always included in the category when people use the category. Technically it is one, but it is unique, and usually (I think) NSAIDs means all the "other" NSAIDs. > > For instance, when I put on my medical forms that I am allergic to aspirin and NSAIDs, I don't just put NSAIDs, I have to put aspirin specifically. I didn't say that aspirin was not an NSAID, or if I did that is not what I meant. What I meant was that for the purposes of this article, it is not included in the NSAIDs that they are talking about. > > I have not looked up any information on aspirin causing heart attacks because I thought it prevented them and it might be difficult to find any information saying the opposite. Perhaps you could do a PubMed search or something of the sort if you are extremely concerned about this.> > This is just my opinion, but I think given the new data coming out about the cardiotoxic effects of the specific NSAIDs/COX-2 inhibitors mentioned in the article, that to take any of these in high doses to maintain desensitization would be foolish. As far as I know there is no data on this, but some members have mentioned in the past that they have tried it.> > Maybe this will help explain it: "Aspirin is a unique NSAID, not only because of its many uses, but because it is the only NSAID that is able to inhibit the clotting of blood for a prolonged period (4 to 7 days). This prolonged effect of aspirin makes it an ideal drug for preventing the blood clots that cause heart attacks and strokes."> > from http://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/article.htm> > Part of the problem with all of this is that the mechanism of these cardiotoxic effects of the other NSAIDs besides aspirin is not known. > > Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about because it is proprietary information I received through my job, and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the only way I can get this information out without violating confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I say in this area.> > Lori>

[Guest guest]

Stop Lori!

Don’t you do this, too. I understand that it is an emotional blow to receive a rude message from someone who does not understand your deep commitment to the health and well being of this group. There must be a better way of dealing with such flamers. Don’t be hurt. Just warn him that he will be blocked if he can’t behave himself.

Please?

Pam

On 9/25/06 4:48 PM, " Lori Baur " <lori@...> wrote:

Thanks, Andy.

I am really sorry to have upset you so much. I never claimed to be a practitioner of medicine. I am not.

I care a lot about this group, but I guess I need to take a break.

See you all

Lori

Re: aspirin versus NSAIDs etc

Oh dear another new thread (?)

My final thoughts on this are:-

TO summarise:-

Well Known Fact #1- LOW DOSE Aspirin is used worldwide to thin blood

to help potential heart attack victims etc (nothing new here Lori -

basic stuff)

Apparent fact #1- Some NSAIDs are bad for the heart but,

Apparent fact #2- no-one knows what HIGH DOSE aspirin regimes do to

the body (aside from GI upsets/ulcers,easy bruising = known facts)

My Valid Concern: - other NSAIDs cause 'damage' to hearts via

certain mechanisms, so are these mechanisms also involved in high

dose aspirin regimes? = problems for Samters sufferers maintaining

desensitisation on high dose aspirin.

Your claim #1- some people with Samters are using COX2 inhibs to

maintain desensitisation to aspirin - I look forward to read about

any such people on the Samters discussion group.

> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

>because it is proprietary information I received through my job,

>and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the

>only way I can get this information out without violating

>confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I

>say in this area.

Indeed YOU do need to be more careful, SOME of your posts to this

group that I have read in recent months have been medically ill-

informed, doubtful and/or misleading. Quite what your job &

qualifications are bewilder me but I would be amazed (and concerned)

if you were professionally involved in (Western) medicine in any way.

take more care y'all

Andy (UK)

>

> Andy,

>

> Perhaps you have misunderstood my response. I believe the reason

aspirin is not in the paper I posted is because it is not

cardiotoxic. It is GIVEN to heart patients and those preventing

myocardial infarctions and strokes. I'm sorry, perhaps I

misunderstood your original question.

>

> Aspirin can perhaps be toxic in other ways, especially to the GI

system, but I have never heard of it being toxic or poisonous to the

heart. And it is also known in other areas to possibly prevent some

cancers (such as one type of breast cancer and colon cancer) while

possibly increasing the risk for others (such as the type of breast

cancer that I had).

>

> Aspirin is an NSAID, yes, and certainly it is the first NSAID, but

I think it was only named that in retrospect. Generally people

say " aspirins and all NSAIDs " or something of the sort .... I don't

think it is always included in the category when people use the

category. Technically it is one, but it is unique, and usually (I

think) NSAIDs means all the " other " NSAIDs.

>

> For instance, when I put on my medical forms that I am allergic to

aspirin and NSAIDs, I don't just put NSAIDs, I have to put aspirin

specifically. I didn't say that aspirin was not an NSAID, or if I

did that is not what I meant. What I meant was that for the

purposes of this article, it is not included in the NSAIDs that they

are talking about.

>

> I have not looked up any information on aspirin causing heart

attacks because I thought it prevented them and it might be

difficult to find any information saying the opposite. Perhaps you

could do a PubMed search or something of the sort if you are

extremely concerned about this.

>

> This is just my opinion, but I think given the new data coming out

about the cardiotoxic effects of the specific NSAIDs/COX-2

inhibitors mentioned in the article, that to take any of these in

high doses to maintain desensitization would be foolish. As far as

I know there is no data on this, but some members have mentioned in

the past that they have tried it.

>

> Maybe this will help explain it: " Aspirin is a unique NSAID, not

only because of its many uses, but because it is the only NSAID that

is able to inhibit the clotting of blood for a prolonged period (4

to 7 days). This prolonged effect of aspirin makes it an ideal drug

for preventing the blood clots that cause heart attacks and strokes. "

>

> from

http://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/articl

e.htm

>

> Part of the problem with all of this is that the mechanism of

these cardiotoxic effects of the other NSAIDs besides aspirin is not

known.

>

> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

because it is proprietary information I received through my job, and

that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the only

way I can get this information out without violating confidentiality

agreements. So I have to be very careful what I say in this area.

>

> Lori

>

[Guest guest]

Lori please don’t be offended or

upset by Andy’s comments. Everyone here has gained so much valuable

information not only from this group but from you personally. I know I have.

Some of the information I’ve

learnt from here I’ve spoken to my GP about and he actually stated that I’d

probably learn more here than what he could tell me because so many people with

Samters can put forward what they’re using and experiencing from all

around the globe.

No, ‘we’ may not be doctors

but from speaking out about our own experiences, the drugs we use, the

operations we’ve had, etc. we can share with others in the safe knowledge

that we do know what we’re talking about because it’s what we’re

using or having to go through.

Lori please reconsider about taking a

break.

From: samters [mailto:samters ] On Behalf Of Lori Baur

Sent: Tuesday, 26 September 2006

6:49 AM

samters

Subject: Re: Re: aspirin

versus NSAIDs etc

Thanks, Andy.

I am really sorry to have upset you so much. I never claimed to

be a practitioner of medicine. I am not.

I care a lot about this group, but I guess I need to take a break.

See you all

Lori

Re:

aspirin versus NSAIDs etc

Oh dear another new thread (?)

My final thoughts on this are:-

TO summarise:-

Well Known Fact #1- LOW DOSE Aspirin is used worldwide to thin blood

to help potential heart attack victims etc (nothing new here Lori -

basic stuff)

Apparent fact #1- Some NSAIDs are bad for the heart but,

Apparent fact #2- no-one knows what HIGH DOSE aspirin regimes do to

the body (aside from GI upsets/ulcers,easy bruising = known facts)

My Valid Concern: - other NSAIDs cause 'damage' to hearts via

certain mechanisms, so are these mechanisms also involved in high

dose aspirin regimes? = problems for Samters sufferers maintaining

desensitisation on high dose aspirin.

Your claim #1- some people with Samters are using COX2 inhibs to

maintain desensitisation to aspirin - I look forward to read about

any such people on the Samters discussion group.

> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

>because it is proprietary information I received through my job,

>and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the

>only way I can get this information out without violating

>confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I

>say in this area.

Indeed YOU do need to be more careful, SOME of your posts to this

group that I have read in recent months have been medically ill-

informed, doubtful and/or misleading. Quite what your job &

qualifications are bewilder me but I would be amazed (and concerned)

if you were professionally involved in (Western) medicine in any way.

take more care y'all

Andy (UK)

>

> Andy,

>

> Perhaps you have misunderstood my response. I believe the reason

aspirin is not in the paper I posted is because it is not

cardiotoxic. It is GIVEN to heart patients and those preventing

myocardial infarctions and strokes. I'm sorry, perhaps I

misunderstood your original question.

>

> Aspirin can perhaps be toxic in other ways, especially to the GI

system, but I have never heard of it being toxic or poisonous to the

heart. And it is also known in other areas to possibly prevent some

cancers (such as one type of breast cancer and colon cancer) while

possibly increasing the risk for others (such as the type of breast

cancer that I had).

>

> Aspirin is an NSAID, yes, and certainly it is the first NSAID, but

I think it was only named that in retrospect. Generally people

say " aspirins and all NSAIDs " or something of the sort .... I don't

think it is always included in the category when people use the

category. Technically it is one, but it is unique, and usually (I

think) NSAIDs means all the " other " NSAIDs.

>

> For instance, when I put on my medical forms that I am allergic to

aspirin and NSAIDs, I don't just put NSAIDs, I have to put aspirin

specifically. I didn't say that aspirin was not an NSAID, or if I

did that is not what I meant. What I meant was that for the

purposes of this article, it is not included in the NSAIDs that they

are talking about.

>

> I have not looked up any information on aspirin causing heart

attacks because I thought it prevented them and it might be

difficult to find any information saying the opposite. Perhaps you

could do a PubMed search or something of the sort if you are

extremely concerned about this.

>

> This is just my opinion, but I think given the new data coming out

about the cardiotoxic effects of the specific NSAIDs/COX-2

inhibitors mentioned in the article, that to take any of these in

high doses to maintain desensitization would be foolish. As far as

I know there is no data on this, but some members have mentioned in

the past that they have tried it.

>

> Maybe this will help explain it: " Aspirin is a unique NSAID, not

only because of its many uses, but because it is the only NSAID that

is able to inhibit the clotting of blood for a prolonged period (4

to 7 days). This prolonged effect of aspirin makes it an ideal drug

for preventing the blood clots that cause heart attacks and strokes. "

>

> from

http://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/articl

e.htm

>

> Part of the problem with all of this is that the mechanism of

these cardiotoxic effects of the other NSAIDs besides aspirin is not

known.

>

> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

because it is proprietary information I received through my job, and

that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the only

way I can get this information out without violating confidentiality

agreements. So I have to be very careful what I say in this area.

>

> Lori

>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Andy who ever you are I'm sorry but I thank GOD for the support that I get from this group and when rude people like you come in and go off on our people then we are loosing out. I have a child who is 11 years old and I get so much info from here and support but I will not be able to continue to get help for my son because of people like you so please I'm sorry your upset but just get over it and let the rest of us get answers and the help that no one else can give to us.andy_tash2 <opal__fruit@...> wrote: Oh

dear another new thread (?)My final thoughts on this are:-TO summarise:-Well Known Fact #1- LOW DOSE Aspirin is used worldwide to thin blood to help potential heart attack victims etc (nothing new here Lori -basic stuff)Apparent fact #1- Some NSAIDs are bad for the heart but,Apparent fact #2- no-one knows what HIGH DOSE aspirin regimes do to the body (aside from GI upsets/ulcers,easy bruising = known facts)My Valid Concern: - other NSAIDs cause 'damage' to hearts via certain mechanisms, so are these mechanisms also involved in high dose aspirin regimes? = problems for Samters sufferers maintaining desensitisation on high dose aspirin.Your claim #1- some people with Samters are using COX2 inhibs to maintain desensitisation to aspirin - I look forward to read about any such people on the Samters discussion group.> Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

>because it is proprietary information I received through my job, >and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the >only way I can get this information out without violating >confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I >say in this area.Indeed YOU do need to be more careful, SOME of your posts to this group that I have read in recent months have been medically ill-informed, doubtful and/or misleading. Quite what your job & qualifications are bewilder me but I would be amazed (and concerned) if you were professionally involved in (Western) medicine in any way.take more care y'allAndy (UK)>> Andy,> > Perhaps you have misunderstood my response. I believe the reason aspirin is not in the paper I posted is

because it is not cardiotoxic. It is GIVEN to heart patients and those preventing myocardial infarctions and strokes. I'm sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your original question. > > Aspirin can perhaps be toxic in other ways, especially to the GI system, but I have never heard of it being toxic or poisonous to the heart. And it is also known in other areas to possibly prevent some cancers (such as one type of breast cancer and colon cancer) while possibly increasing the risk for others (such as the type of breast cancer that I had).> > Aspirin is an NSAID, yes, and certainly it is the first NSAID, but I think it was only named that in retrospect. Generally people say "aspirins and all NSAIDs" or something of the sort .... I don't think it is always included in the category when people use the category. Technically it is one, but it is unique, and usually (I think) NSAIDs means all the "other"

NSAIDs. > > For instance, when I put on my medical forms that I am allergic to aspirin and NSAIDs, I don't just put NSAIDs, I have to put aspirin specifically. I didn't say that aspirin was not an NSAID, or if I did that is not what I meant. What I meant was that for the purposes of this article, it is not included in the NSAIDs that they are talking about. > > I have not looked up any information on aspirin causing heart attacks because I thought it prevented them and it might be difficult to find any information saying the opposite. Perhaps you could do a PubMed search or something of the sort if you are extremely concerned about this.> > This is just my opinion, but I think given the new data coming out about the cardiotoxic effects of the specific NSAIDs/COX-2 inhibitors mentioned in the article, that to take any of these in high doses to maintain desensitization would be foolish.

As far as I know there is no data on this, but some members have mentioned in the past that they have tried it.> > Maybe this will help explain it: "Aspirin is a unique NSAID, not only because of its many uses, but because it is the only NSAID that is able to inhibit the clotting of blood for a prolonged period (4 to 7 days). This prolonged effect of aspirin makes it an ideal drug for preventing the blood clots that cause heart attacks and strokes."> > from http://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/article.htm> > Part of the problem with all of this is that the mechanism of these cardiotoxic effects of the other NSAIDs besides aspirin is not known. > > Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about because it is proprietary

information I received through my job, and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the only way I can get this information out without violating confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I say in this area.> > Lori> Have a great day __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Lori .I am always open to others points of views and I am happy for your

contributions. Andy if you have concerns please state them specifically and

if you can back yourself up with credible scientific papers please do so.

>From: head <adalynbrendan@...>

>Reply-samters

>samters

>Subject: Re: Re: aspirin versus NSAIDs etc

>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:17:57 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Dear Andy who ever you are I'm sorry but I thank GOD for the support that I

>get from this group and when rude people like you come in and go off on our

>people then we are loosing out. I have a child who is 11 years old and I

>get so much info from here and support but I will not be able to continue

>to get help for my son because of people like you so please I'm sorry your

>upset but just get over it and let the rest of us get answers and the help

>that no one else can give to us.

>

>andy_tash2 <opal__fruit@...> wrote: Oh dear another new

>thread (?)

>

>My final thoughts on this are:-

>

>TO summarise:-

>Well Known Fact #1- LOW DOSE Aspirin is used worldwide to thin blood

>to help potential heart attack victims etc (nothing new here Lori -

>basic stuff)

>

>Apparent fact #1- Some NSAIDs are bad for the heart but,

>Apparent fact #2- no-one knows what HIGH DOSE aspirin regimes do to

>the body (aside from GI upsets/ulcers,easy bruising = known facts)

>

>My Valid Concern: - other NSAIDs cause 'damage' to hearts via

>certain mechanisms, so are these mechanisms also involved in high

>dose aspirin regimes? = problems for Samters sufferers maintaining

>desensitisation on high dose aspirin.

>

>Your claim #1- some people with Samters are using COX2 inhibs to

>maintain desensitisation to aspirin - I look forward to read about

>any such people on the Samters discussion group.

>

> > Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

> >because it is proprietary information I received through my job,

> >and that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the

> >only way I can get this information out without violating

> >confidentiality agreements. So I have to be very careful what I

> >say in this area.

>

>Indeed YOU do need to be more careful, SOME of your posts to this

>group that I have read in recent months have been medically ill-

>informed, doubtful and/or misleading. Quite what your job &

>qualifications are bewilder me but I would be amazed (and concerned)

>if you were professionally involved in (Western) medicine in any way.

>

>take more care y'all

>Andy (UK)

>

>

> >

> > Andy,

> >

> > Perhaps you have misunderstood my response. I believe the reason

>aspirin is not in the paper I posted is because it is not

>cardiotoxic. It is GIVEN to heart patients and those preventing

>myocardial infarctions and strokes. I'm sorry, perhaps I

>misunderstood your original question.

> >

> > Aspirin can perhaps be toxic in other ways, especially to the GI

>system, but I have never heard of it being toxic or poisonous to the

>heart. And it is also known in other areas to possibly prevent some

>cancers (such as one type of breast cancer and colon cancer) while

>possibly increasing the risk for others (such as the type of breast

>cancer that I had).

> >

> > Aspirin is an NSAID, yes, and certainly it is the first NSAID, but

>I think it was only named that in retrospect. Generally people

>say " aspirins and all NSAIDs " or something of the sort .... I don't

>think it is always included in the category when people use the

>category. Technically it is one, but it is unique, and usually (I

>think) NSAIDs means all the " other " NSAIDs.

> >

> > For instance, when I put on my medical forms that I am allergic to

>aspirin and NSAIDs, I don't just put NSAIDs, I have to put aspirin

>specifically. I didn't say that aspirin was not an NSAID, or if I

>did that is not what I meant. What I meant was that for the

>purposes of this article, it is not included in the NSAIDs that they

>are talking about.

> >

> > I have not looked up any information on aspirin causing heart

>attacks because I thought it prevented them and it might be

>difficult to find any information saying the opposite. Perhaps you

>could do a PubMed search or something of the sort if you are

>extremely concerned about this.

> >

> > This is just my opinion, but I think given the new data coming out

>about the cardiotoxic effects of the specific NSAIDs/COX-2

>inhibitors mentioned in the article, that to take any of these in

>high doses to maintain desensitization would be foolish. As far as

>I know there is no data on this, but some members have mentioned in

>the past that they have tried it.

> >

> > Maybe this will help explain it: " Aspirin is a unique NSAID, not

>only because of its many uses, but because it is the only NSAID that

>is able to inhibit the clotting of blood for a prolonged period (4

>to 7 days). This prolonged effect of aspirin makes it an ideal drug

>for preventing the blood clots that cause heart attacks and strokes. "

> >

> > from

>http://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/articl

>e.htm

> >

> > Part of the problem with all of this is that the mechanism of

>these cardiotoxic effects of the other NSAIDs besides aspirin is not

>known.

> >

> > Unfortunately I know a lot more about this than I can talk about

>because it is proprietary information I received through my job, and

>that is another reason I posted the article, because it's the only

>way I can get this information out without violating confidentiality

>agreements. So I have to be very careful what I say in this area.

> >

> > Lori

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Have a great day

>

> __________________________________________________

>