Re: Hydrogen peroxide nasal irrigation?

[Guest guest]

Becca,

Hydrogen peroxyde is a very good disinfectant, but it may be too strong

a thing to irrigate with. Or, at least, it has to be handled with care.

Too much might hurt your mucosa, and there is even a risk that it may

hurt your optical nerve over time. Of course, you can dilute it enough

so that no side effects happen, but then the solution becomes less

antiseptic. I can't remember if you have had surgery, but if you

haven't, your sinuses are not accessible, and therefore adding

disinfectants to your irrigation solution will not disinfect the sinuses

themselves, but rather only the nasal fossa.

What are our symptoms during sinusitis? What colour is your mucus? Do

you experience remission between two sinusitis, and for how long? Does

the nasal discharge remain clear between episodes ? When you take

antibiotics, do they have effect, or does the sinusitis go away on its

own regardless of whether you take antibiotics or not ? Have you ever

had a sinus CT scan performed ? What does your ENT think about these

recurrent infections?

> >

> > Desens works great for most patients, but as discussed in an earlier

> > post, it works not by suppressing leukotrienes, but rather by

> > under-regulating leukotriene receptors " CysLT1 " ; it does help

reduce

> > leukotrienes, but indirectly. However, it may increase eosinophil

> > counts, which may be problematic for individuals susceptible to

high

> > eosinophil levels. As long as desens does not create collateral

> > problems, it is fine, but blood analysis every once in a while is

> > recommended.

> >

> > As for FD, I have no idea ; it contains many compounds that are not

only

> > antifungal but also antibacterial as well ; feeling better on FD

does

> > not necessarily mean one has fungi. It also contains enzymes, garlic

> > juice, etc. Personally, I would not take it before studying it more

> > precisely, and also because I find probiotics softer on the stomach,

but

> > that is not a definitive opinion.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Asfyso,

In all of the anecdotal accounts of irrigation with H2O2 that I read, the

strongest solution diluted 3% H2O2 by half. Other solutions were much weaker

(such as in the link I sent, the website is put up by MDs, but I'm not sure what

their agenda is). All accounts stated that their use of H2O2 in

spray/irrigation was not daily, but rather only during flare-ups.

I have not had surgery, so you make a valid point about the irrigant not

reaching the sinuses. Your other questions are all items I will be bringing to

the ENT on Wednesday--she's treated a few others in our group. I do have

remission between episodes of sinusitis, but the remissions are brought on by

prednisone and/or antibiotics. Currently I have cloudy/yellow mucus, and

yesterday my sinuses hurt, which made my teeth hurt too! That was a new

experience, and fun. I used some OTC meds to reduce congestion yesterday and

last night, and am somewhat improved today.

I really wish surgery and desens weren't the only option for me, as I'm a

teacher, and can't take that much time off work until Spring break. I was

really hoping the pulmicort would allow me to get through until Spring, but I

should be so lucky.

Cheers,

Becca

>

> Becca,

> Hydrogen peroxyde is a very good disinfectant, but it may be too strong

> a thing to irrigate with. Or, at least, it has to be handled with care.

> Too much might hurt your mucosa, and there is even a risk that it may

> hurt your optical nerve over time. Of course, you can dilute it enough

> so that no side effects happen, but then the solution becomes less

> antiseptic. I can't remember if you have had surgery, but if you

> haven't, your sinuses are not accessible, and therefore adding

> disinfectants to your irrigation solution will not disinfect the sinuses

> themselves, but rather only the nasal fossa.

> What are our symptoms during sinusitis? What colour is your mucus? Do

> you experience remission between two sinusitis, and for how long? Does

> the nasal discharge remain clear between episodes ? When you take

> antibiotics, do they have effect, or does the sinusitis go away on its

> own regardless of whether you take antibiotics or not ? Have you ever

> had a sinus CT scan performed ? What does your ENT think about these

> recurrent infections?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I swear by Hydrogen Peroxide!! We spray it on our poultry then wipe dry, we wash

our veggies with it to remove pesticides.  We gargle with it, we even (after

Hurricane Ike) used it to remove MOLD (black/green/white/pink).  Hydrogen

Peroxide was the ONLY thing that removed the mold 100%.  It removes fungi,

bacteria effectively regardless whether it's for nasal irrigation, mouth rinse

or for the health and safety of your food.

If anyone wants a copy of my 100 proven uses for Hydrogen Peroxide (which also

includes the various grades, please let me know in a separate email and I'll be

more than happy to send it on over.

From: rebeebit <rebeebit@...>

Subject: Hydrogen peroxide nasal irrigation?

samters

Received: Friday, September 18, 2009, 10:05 PM

 

Thanks for the knowledgeable reply, Asfyso. I'm fearful of FD because it made my

polyps literally jump out of my nose (ok, almost) when I tried it.

I have an appointment with a new ENT next week, and unfortunately I have another

sinus infection. I stumbled across some information about using hydrogen

peroxide in one's irrigation solution (link below), and wondered if anyone had

tried it. Sounds painful, but I'm at the end of my rope with these sinus

infections. Let me know.

Here's the link:

http://www.onlineal lergycenter. com/articles/ nasal_irrigation .htm

Michele, you are the first person to have the same symptoms as I do with

wheat/gluten. I've been laying off the dairy lately, but not completely. I might

go dairy-free for a month and see what happens.

Cheers,

Becca

>

> Desens works great for most patients, but as discussed in an earlier

> post, it works not by suppressing leukotrienes, but rather by

> under-regulating leukotriene receptors " CysLT1 " ; it does help reduce

> leukotrienes, but indirectly. However, it may increase eosinophil

> counts, which may be problematic for individuals susceptible to high

> eosinophil levels. As long as desens does not create collateral

> problems, it is fine, but blood analysis every once in a while is

> recommended.

>

> As for FD, I have no idea ; it contains many compounds that are not only

> antifungal but also antibacterial as well ; feeling better on FD does

> not necessarily mean one

has fungi. It also contains enzymes, garlic

> juice, etc. Personally, I would not take it before studying it more

> precisely, and also because I find probiotics softer on the stomach, but

> that is not a definitive opinion.

>

__________________________________________________________________

Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to

Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.

[Guest guest]

Becca,In my opinion, it is clear that if you have not had surgery, H2O2 irrigation will not help beyond some initial cleaning of the nasal fossa (unless you start with sterile, cured sinuses, but that is not the case, and then it is not even sure that it would help the sinuses stay clean if they are not accessible). If the sinusitis is practically unceasing and if antibiotics have a positive effect during the periods when they are taken, the most likely diagnosis is bacterial sinusitis. At this point, if the sinusitis has been ongoing for some time, an ENT will perform an office endoscopy of the nasal fossa (simply meaning looking behind the nose, and hopefully looking if the sinus openings are visible, looking for mucus, evaluating the state of the mucosa), and order a CT scan to see what it looks like inside. Since the bacterial origin is the most likely hypothesis, an endoscopic swab and germ culture should be done (endoscopic swab is important, to get as close as possible to the source of infection, otherwise, a simple nose swab may yield any wrong germ or even none at all), so agressive antibiotic treatment can begin (by this time, the germs are likely to be partially resistant since they have already been subjected to several antibiotic courses).Other origins have to be explored and treated or ruled out : decayed teeth, fungi (not likely since the sinusitis responds partially to antibiotics, but still), allergies, etc.If you irrigate, disinfect the irrigation device after use, with H2O2 or dilute bleach (I use 1 drop in 50 ml).If you still want to try H2O2 irrigation, be aware of the risk, which is proportional to concentration and duration. For instance : Ophthalmology. 2004 Aug;111(8):1546-9. Links

Corneal and conjunctival toxicity from hydrogen peroxide: a patient with chronic self-induced injury.

Memarzadeh F, Shamie N, Gaster RN, Chuck RS.

Department of Ophthalmology, University of California, Irvine, 92697, USA.

PURPOSE:

To report a patient with severe corneal and conjunctival toxicity from

long-term, habitual use of hydrogen peroxide as an eye wash. DESIGN:

Observational case report. INTERVENTION AND TESTING: Serial

examinations of the cornea, conjunctiva, and ocular adnexa were done.

Penetrating keratoplasty with amniotic membrane transplantation was

performed. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Ocular inflammation, pain, and visual

acuity outcome. RESULTS: Bilateral corneal and conjunctival

inflammation and scarring mimicking ocular-cicatricial pemphigoid were

noted. Formation of a descemetocele after starting treatment with

low-dose topical steroids required emergent penetrating keratoplasty

with amniotic membrane transplantation. CONCLUSIONS: This is the first

reported case of ocular surface toxicity in a patient after deliberate

chronic use of high-dose hydrogen peroxide. It highlights the value of

obtaining a thorough medical and social history and the importance of

direct questioning about the use of any medications or agents on the

eyes before making a diagnosis or initiating therapy.So, stop the irrigation at the first sign of trouble. If your sinuses were wide open, you would have to check for optical nerve damage.Independantly of irrigation, you definitely cannot go on until Spring without a better idea of the cause and, if it is a bug, indeed, killing it. Harboring the bacteria until Spring is sure to seriously worsen the status of your mucosa. > >> > Becca,> > Hydrogen peroxyde is a very good disinfectant, but it may be too strong> > a thing to irrigate with. Or, at least, it has to be handled with care.> > Too much might hurt your mucosa, and there is even a risk that it may> > hurt your optical nerve over time. Of course, you can dilute it enough> > so that no side effects happen, but then the solution becomes less> > antiseptic. I can't remember if you have had surgery, but if you> > haven't, your sinuses are not accessible, and therefore adding> > disinfectants to your irrigation solution will not disinfect the sinuses> > themselves, but rather only the nasal fossa.> > What are our symptoms during sinusitis? What colour is your mucus? Do> > you experience remission between two sinusitis, and for how long? Does> > the nasal discharge remain clear between episodes ? When you take> > antibiotics, do they have effect, or does the sinusitis go away on its> > own regardless of whether you take antibiotics or not ? Have you ever> > had a sinus CT scan performed ? What does your ENT think about these> > recurrent infections?> > > >>

[Guest guest]

There is no doubt that hydrogen peroxide is great. It's just that strong

caution is required in the case of internal use, and even more caution

in the case of the sinuses, because the eyes are not far away.

> >

> > Desens works great for most patients, but as discussed in an earlier

> > post, it works not by suppressing leukotrienes, but rather by

> > under-regulating leukotriene receptors " CysLT1 " ; it does help

reduce

> > leukotrienes, but indirectly. However, it may increase eosinophil

> > counts, which may be problematic for individuals susceptible to high

> > eosinophil levels. As long as desens does not create collateral

> > problems, it is fine, but blood analysis every once in a while is

> > recommended.

> >

> > As for FD, I have no idea ; it contains many compounds that are not

only

> > antifungal but also antibacterial as well ; feeling better on FD

does

> > not necessarily mean one

> has fungi. It also contains enzymes, garlic

> > juice, etc. Personally, I would not take it before studying it more

> > precisely, and also because I find probiotics softer on the stomach,

but

> > that is not a definitive opinion.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________________________

> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to

Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. I've never had an endoscopic swab done. My doctors literally have asked

me if I want antibiotics, or if I think I need antibiotics. I was so irritated

the last time this happened, I asked the doctor if he shouldn't be telling me

whether I should have them or not. It's very irritating to have bachelor's in

Biology and feel like your MD is making poor decisions about prescribing

antibiotics.

This is such good information, I really appreciate your thoughtful and

researched replies. I will proceed with caution with the H2O2 in my irrigation

solution, as I plan to try it for a few days to see if there is an improvement,

but stop after a few days regardless.

I realize I won't make it until Spring without doing anything about my sinuses.

The ENT I'm seeing on Wednesday is highly recommended by several members of this

group, so I'm optimistic that she will have some good, productive ideas about

what we can do while I'm waiting to have time for surgery. My allergist has

really scared me off prednisone, so I will try to avoid another round of

prednisone for as long as possible.

Thanks again for your thorough replies!

Becca

> > >

> > > Becca,

> > > Hydrogen peroxyde is a very good disinfectant, but it may be too

> strong

> > > a thing to irrigate with. Or, at least, it has to be handled with

> care.

> > > Too much might hurt your mucosa, and there is even a risk that it

> may

> > > hurt your optical nerve over time. Of course, you can dilute it

> enough

> > > so that no side effects happen, but then the solution becomes less

> > > antiseptic. I can't remember if you have had surgery, but if you

> > > haven't, your sinuses are not accessible, and therefore adding

> > > disinfectants to your irrigation solution will not disinfect the

> sinuses

> > > themselves, but rather only the nasal fossa.

> > > What are our symptoms during sinusitis? What colour is your mucus?

> Do

> > > you experience remission between two sinusitis, and for how long?

> Does

> > > the nasal discharge remain clear between episodes ? When you take

> > > antibiotics, do they have effect, or does the sinusitis go away on

> its

> > > own regardless of whether you take antibiotics or not ? Have you

> ever

> > > had a sinus CT scan performed ? What does your ENT think about these

> > > recurrent infections?

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If you have a degree in biology, I recommend this book :

http://www.amazon.com/Rhinosinusitis-Diagnosis-Management-a-Thaler/d\

p/0387730613/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1253390868 & sr=1-1

I also recommend it to everyone who has a scientific background and is

motivated to learn more about sinusitis. It is expensive, but highly

readable (ie reading slowly with a marker pen makes it very easy), and

will pay for itself if it helps avoid some sinusitis episodes or helps

in case of surgery, or just makes it easier to discuss treatment options

with your ENT.

There is a chapter on Samter's, but it does not say anything new on the

matter. Of course, it offers no miracle cures, but this what serious GPs

read to stay up-to-date on sinusitis, so if you would like to know how

doctors reason...

> > > >

> > > > Becca,

> > > > Hydrogen peroxyde is a very good disinfectant, but it may be too

> > strong

> > > > a thing to irrigate with. Or, at least, it has to be handled

with

> > care.

> > > > Too much might hurt your mucosa, and there is even a risk that

it

> > may

> > > > hurt your optical nerve over time. Of course, you can dilute it

> > enough

> > > > so that no side effects happen, but then the solution becomes

less

> > > > antiseptic. I can't remember if you have had surgery, but if you

> > > > haven't, your sinuses are not accessible, and therefore adding

> > > > disinfectants to your irrigation solution will not disinfect the

> > sinuses

> > > > themselves, but rather only the nasal fossa.

> > > > What are our symptoms during sinusitis? What colour is your

mucus?

> > Do

> > > > you experience remission between two sinusitis, and for how

long?

> > Does

> > > > the nasal discharge remain clear between episodes ? When you

take

> > > > antibiotics, do they have effect, or does the sinusitis go away

on

> > its

> > > > own regardless of whether you take antibiotics or not ? Have you

> > ever

> > > > had a sinus CT scan performed ? What does your ENT think about

these

> > > > recurrent infections?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Have tried the hydrogen peroxide rinse and honestly it did very little besides

aggravate my already irritated sinuses. I only did a few times but didn't notice

any major changes - so I wasn't really willing to risk it - but I figured i'd

try it for a week - and for me - no success.

> >

> > Desens works great for most patients, but as discussed in an earlier

> > post, it works not by suppressing leukotrienes, but rather by

> > under-regulating leukotriene receptors " CysLT1 " ; it does help reduce

> > leukotrienes, but indirectly. However, it may increase eosinophil

> > counts, which may be problematic for individuals susceptible to high

> > eosinophil levels. As long as desens does not create collateral

> > problems, it is fine, but blood analysis every once in a while is

> > recommended.

> >

> > As for FD, I have no idea ; it contains many compounds that are not only

> > antifungal but also antibacterial as well ; feeling better on FD does

> > not necessarily mean one has fungi. It also contains enzymes, garlic

> > juice, etc. Personally, I would not take it before studying it more

> > precisely, and also because I find probiotics softer on the stomach, but

> > that is not a definitive opinion.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ditto. Maybe it cleaned out gunk a little better, but my sinus infection is

going strong!

> > >

> > > Desens works great for most patients, but as discussed in an earlier

> > > post, it works not by suppressing leukotrienes, but rather by

> > > under-regulating leukotriene receptors " CysLT1 " ; it does help reduce

> > > leukotrienes, but indirectly. However, it may increase eosinophil

> > > counts, which may be problematic for individuals susceptible to high

> > > eosinophil levels. As long as desens does not create collateral

> > > problems, it is fine, but blood analysis every once in a while is

> > > recommended.

> > >

> > > As for FD, I have no idea ; it contains many compounds that are not only

> > > antifungal but also antibacterial as well ; feeling better on FD does

> > > not necessarily mean one has fungi. It also contains enzymes, garlic

> > > juice, etc. Personally, I would not take it before studying it more

> > > precisely, and also because I find probiotics softer on the stomach, but

> > > that is not a definitive opinion.

> > >

> >

>