irrigation

March 9, 2006

In the Water Pik reservoir, which is 35 oz. I use 1 tsp of salt and 1/4 tsp

of baking soda. My tap water is well water so I use it hot from the tap.

On 3/9/06 8:45 PM, " eshippy2001 " <eshippy2001@...> wrote:

> What is the mix for the irrigation treatment

> water? salt? baking soda?

>

March 9, 2006

I know some prefer to mix their own for cost savings, but for me the

packets are much more convenient. Neil Med makes them in both

isotonic and hypertonic, and ENT-SOL also has hypertonic packets. I

do not find them to be that expensive, it's about 10 bucks for 100

packets for the Neil Med.

It is only 8 ounces of water that you use with one packet, and 8

ounces is more than enough for each irrigation.

Lori

>

> What is the mix for the irrigation treatment

> water? salt? baking soda?

>

March 9, 2006

Hi

Here are a few recipes I pulled off of the internet. Which one to use is personal preference and convenience. I have never used vinegar has anyboy else tried it?

Good Luck

Isotonic saline (salt water that is about as salty as your body fluids)

1 teaspoon salt (Kosher/Sea salt) 1 teaspoon baking soda (NOT baking powder!) 1 pint of water (use distilled or filtered water if you have any concerns about the quality of your tap water.) Comment: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) improves the mucus-solvent properties of the irrigant.

Hypertonic saline (salt water that is saltier than your body fluids)

2 teaspoons of salt 1 teaspoon of baking soda 1 pint of water Comment: this solution is well-tolerated as an oral rinse, but you will find it to be more irritating than isotonic saline if you use it as a nasal irrigant. Nevertheless, it is safe and very effective as a nasal irrigant. This hypertonic saline irrigant is a very crude (but effective) approximation of seawater.

A few More!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Recipe 1 (Added Nov. 6, 2002)

1 teaspoon "kosher" or "pickling" salt (table salt has additives...it's better to use a salt that has none)

1-2 teaspoons white vinegar

1 quart warm water (sterile)

Recipe 2 (Info updated Feb. 17, 2005)

Sterile normal saline

Sterile glacial acetic acid (Note from Kathy: Although vinegar is a form of acetic acid, Glacial Acetic Acid (GAA) is not vinegar. Vinegar is fermented and, as such, has a "starter" or "mother" in it. (If you ever have had a bottle of vinegar that sat around for quite a while after being opened, you may have seen a rather slimy substance floating in it. That is the "mother".) We definitely would not want to put that into our sinuses! I use only sterile GAA (in solution with sterile normal saline) for my irrigations. GAA is quite caustic and must be compounded by a pharmacist, using a laminar-flow hood. Also, you need a prescription in the US to get it.)

For quantities of those ingredients, and details on how to prepare this one, contact Kathy at pakaru@...

Recipe 3 (Added Mar. 18, 2003)

2 cups Sterile Water or Boiled Water

1/2 teaspoon non-iodized salt, like sea salt

Pinch of Baking Soda

Store in refrigerator, and warm up in separate container before use

Recipe 4 (Added Mar. 18, 2003)

1 quart boiled water

1-3 teaspoons of pickling or canning or kosher salt, not table salt because it contains additives, adjust salt to preference

1 teaspoon baking soda

Warm slightly in microwave before use

Recipe 5 (Added July 8, 2003)

Purchase an "ear syringe" (small rubber bulb syringe) from the drugstore

Preparation

Clean a 1-quart glass jar carefully then fill it with bottled water. You need not boil the water.

Add 2 to 3 heaping teaspoons of pickling or canning salt. DO NOT use table salt, because it contains additives.

Add 1 rounded teaspoon of baking soda (pure bicarbonate).

Store at room temperature and shake or stir before each use.

Mix a new batch weekly.

Use

Pour some of the mixture into a clean bowl; warming it to body temperature may help, but make sure it is NOT HOT.

Fill the syringe or bulb irrigator. To avoid contamination, DO NOT place bulb or syringe into jar.

Stand over the sink or in a shower and squirt the mixture into each side of the nose several times. Rinse the nose two to three times daily.

Recipe 6 (Added Dec. 5, 2005)

1 quart of water (distilled or boiled tap water)

1 teaspoon of salt (Kosher salt works best)

1 tablespoon of baking soda

Shake well before using. Discard the unused mixture after fourteen days. Boil the water in a Pyrex glass four cup measuring container in the microwave, then add the ingredients.

March 10, 2006

About how many ounces per nostril per day when irragating?

Re: irrigation

Hi Here are a few recipes I pulled off of the internet. Which one to use is personal preference and convenience. I have never used vinegar has anyboy else tried it? Good Luck

Isotonic saline (salt water that is about as salty as your body fluids)

1 teaspoon salt (Kosher/Sea salt) 1 teaspoon baking soda (NOT baking powder!) 1 pint of water (use distilled or filtered water if you have any concerns about the quality of your tap water.) Comment: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) improves the mucus-solvent properties of the irrigant.

Hypertonic saline (salt water that is saltier than your body fluids)

2 teaspoons of salt 1 teaspoon of baking soda 1 pint of water Comment: this solution is well-tolerated as an oral rinse, but you will find it to be more irritating than isotonic saline if you use it as a nasal irrigant. Nevertheless, it is safe and very effective as a nasal irrigant. This hypertonic saline irrigant is a very crude (but effective) approximation of seawater.A few More!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Recipe 1 (Added Nov. 6, 2002) 1 teaspoon "kosher" or "pickling" salt (table salt has additives...it's better to use a salt that has none) 1-2 teaspoons white vinegar 1 quart warm water (sterile) Recipe 2 (Info updated Feb. 17, 2005) Sterile normal saline Sterile glacial acetic acid (Note from Kathy: Although vinegar is a form of acetic acid, Glacial Acetic Acid (GAA) is not vinegar. Vinegar is fermented and, as such, has a "starter" or "mother" in it. (If you ever have had a bottle of vinegar that sat around for quite a while after being opened, you may have seen a rather slimy substance floating in it. That is the "mother".) We definitely would not want to put that into our sinuses! I use only sterile GAA (in solution with sterile normal saline) for my irrigations. GAA is quite caustic and must be compounded by a pharmacist, using a laminar-flow hood. Also, you need a prescription in the US to get it.) For quantities of those ingredients, and details on how to prepare this one, contact Kathy at pakaru@... Recipe 3 (Added Mar. 18, 2003) 2 cups Sterile Water or Boiled Water 1/2 teaspoon non-iodized salt, like sea salt Pinch of Baking Soda Store in refrigerator, and warm up in separate container before use Recipe 4 (Added Mar. 18, 2003) 1 quart boiled water 1-3 teaspoons of pickling or canning or kosher salt, not table salt because it contains additives, adjust salt to preference 1 teaspoon baking soda Warm slightly in microwave before use Recipe 5 (Added July 8, 2003) Purchase an "ear syringe" (small rubber bulb syringe) from the drugstore Preparation Clean a 1-quart glass jar carefully then fill it with bottled water. You need not boil the water. Add 2 to 3 heaping teaspoons of pickling or canning salt. DO NOT use table salt, because it contains additives. Add 1 rounded teaspoon of baking soda (pure bicarbonate). Store at room temperature and shake or stir before each use. Mix a new batch weekly. Use Pour some of the mixture into a clean bowl; warming it to body temperature may help, but make sure it is NOT HOT. Fill the syringe or bulb irrigator. To avoid contamination, DO NOT place bulb or syringe into jar. Stand over the sink or in a shower and squirt the mixture into each side of the nose several times. Rinse the nose two to three times daily. Recipe 6 (Added Dec. 5, 2005) 1 quart of water (distilled or boiled tap water) 1 teaspoon of salt (Kosher salt works best) 1 tablespoon of baking soda Shake well before using. Discard the unused mixture after fourteen days. Boil the water in a Pyrex glass four cup measuring container in the microwave, then add the ingredients.

March 10, 2006

On 3/10/06 4:57 PM, " s2french " <s2french@...> wrote:

About how many ounces per nostril per day when irragating?

--

I use the entire reservoir most times. I’ll get bored with it if there is nothing rinsing out and quit half way through. In short, until the water runs clear.

Pam

March 12, 2006

I use a full pint (two cups) each irrigation when using the Water-Pik, and it goes quickly. If using a syringe I need only about half a cup per irrigation.

I recommend Ringers solution: http://personal.ecu.edu/wuenschk/Nasal-Irrigation.htm

Cheers,

Karl W.

irrigation

What is the mix for the irrigation treatmentwater? salt? baking soda?

March 12, 2006

Wow, I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I use eight ounces (that

is what the commercial packets require) and it is almost always more

than enough for me. Sometimes I don't even use all that.

Lori

>

> About how many ounces per nostril per day when irragating?

> Re: irrigation

>

> Hi

>

> Here are a few recipes I pulled off of the internet. Which one

to use is personal preference and convenience. I have never used

vinegar has anyboy else tried it?

> Good Luck

>

> Isotonic saline (salt water that is about as salty as your

body fluids)

>

> 1 teaspoon salt (Kosher/Sea salt) 1 teaspoon baking soda

(NOT baking powder!) 1 pint of water (use distilled or filtered

water if you have any concerns about the quality of your tap water.)

Comment: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) improves the mucus-solvent

properties of the irrigant.

>

> Hypertonic saline (salt water that is saltier than your body

fluids)

>

> 2 teaspoons of salt 1 teaspoon of baking soda 1 pint of

water Comment: this solution is well-tolerated as an oral rinse, but

you will find it to be more irritating than isotonic saline if you

use it as a nasal irrigant. Nevertheless, it is safe and very

effective as a nasal irrigant. This hypertonic saline irrigant is a

very crude (but effective) approximation of seawater.

>

> A few More!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Recipe 1 (Added Nov. 6, 2002)

> 1 teaspoon " kosher " or " pickling " salt (table salt has

additives...it's better to use a salt that has none)

> 1-2 teaspoons white vinegar

> 1 quart warm water (sterile)

> Recipe 2 (Info updated Feb. 17, 2005)

> Sterile normal saline

> Sterile glacial acetic acid (Note from Kathy: Although vinegar

is a form of acetic acid, Glacial Acetic Acid (GAA) is not vinegar.

Vinegar is fermented and, as such, has a " starter " or " mother " in

it. (If you ever have had a bottle of vinegar that sat around for

quite a while after being opened, you may have seen a rather slimy

substance floating in it. That is the " mother " .) We definitely would

not want to put that into our sinuses! I use only sterile GAA (in

solution with sterile normal saline) for my irrigations. GAA is

quite caustic and must be compounded by a pharmacist, using a

laminar-flow hood. Also, you need a prescription in the US to get

it.)

> For quantities of those ingredients, and details on how to

prepare this one, contact Kathy at pakaru@...

> Recipe 3 (Added Mar. 18, 2003)

> 2 cups Sterile Water or Boiled Water

> 1/2 teaspoon non-iodized salt, like sea salt

> Pinch of Baking Soda

> Store in refrigerator, and warm up in separate container

before use

> Recipe 4 (Added Mar. 18, 2003)

> 1 quart boiled water

> 1-3 teaspoons of pickling or canning or kosher salt, not table

salt because it contains additives, adjust salt to preference

> 1 teaspoon baking soda

> Warm slightly in microwave before use

> Recipe 5 (Added July 8, 2003)

> Purchase an " ear syringe " (small rubber bulb syringe) from the

drugstore

> Preparation

> Clean a 1-quart glass jar carefully then fill it with bottled

water. You need not boil the water.

> Add 2 to 3 heaping teaspoons of pickling or canning salt. DO

NOT use table salt, because it contains additives.

> Add 1 rounded teaspoon of baking soda (pure bicarbonate).

> Store at room temperature and shake or stir before each use.

> Mix a new batch weekly.

> Use

> Pour some of the mixture into a clean bowl; warming it to body

temperature may help, but make sure it is NOT HOT.

> Fill the syringe or bulb irrigator. To avoid contamination, DO

NOT place bulb or syringe into jar.

> Stand over the sink or in a shower and squirt the mixture into

each side of the nose several times. Rinse the nose two to three

times daily.

> Recipe 6 (Added Dec. 5, 2005)

> 1 quart of water (distilled or boiled tap water)

> 1 teaspoon of salt (Kosher salt works best)

> 1 tablespoon of baking soda

> Shake well before using. Discard the unused mixture after

fourteen days. Boil the water in a Pyrex glass four cup measuring

container in the microwave, then add the ingredients.

>

September 8, 2006

After my surgury with Dr. Fenton I used saline irrigation using a

waterpik tip.I used 1 tsp sea salt to the reservoir filled with tap

water and later switched to a sterile solution .I was able to insert

the entire tip probably because of prior surgury.After several sinus

infections I was back to see DR. Fenton with the cephalometric and ct

scans (ie showing peripheral calcification of maxillary and also

involving sphenoid sinus).Last visit this spring we started using

NEILRINSE with the TOBRAMYCIN. A followup showed little inflamation so

the tobramycin was discontinued.Have done little irrigation since.

Symtoms usually worse in flu season.Lately things have gotten bad

again and I'll be honest I only irrigate when i have trouble.Also any

alcohol makes things worse probably due to its dehydrating effects as

well as vasomotor and samters reaction.Thanks Ken for your advice.

September 8, 2006

Your note below seems to indicate you are using the basic dental waterpik

tip.

If so, you need the Sinus Irrigator Tip adapter.

Check the Irrigation section in the links.

And, you need to do it religiously, always, not just when you have trouble.

FWIW, I use table salt and tap water. More recipes in the links.

Irrigation, like desensitization, is one of those things that the

professionals know less about than this group, collectively, does.

Yes, alcohol is probably a factor.

I drink.

I irrigate.

> From: " wayden72 " <wayner-d@...>

>

> After my surgury with Dr. Fenton I used saline irrigation using a

> waterpik tip.I used 1 tsp sea salt to the reservoir filled with tap

> water and later switched to a sterile solution .I was able to insert

> the entire tip probably because of prior surgury.After several sinus

> infections I was back to see DR. Fenton with the cephalometric and ct

> scans (ie showing peripheral calcification of maxillary and also

> involving sphenoid sinus).Last visit this spring we started using

> NEILRINSE with the TOBRAMYCIN. A followup showed little inflamation so

> the tobramycin was discontinued.Have done little irrigation since.

> Symtoms usually worse in flu season.Lately things have gotten bad

> again and I'll be honest I only irrigate when i have trouble.Also any

> alcohol makes things worse probably due to its dehydrating effects as

> well as vasomotor and samters reaction.Thanks Ken for your advice.

March 26, 2008

Wanted to pass on something that has been helpful for me when cleaning

out the sinuses. Maybe this has been covered previously or in the

archives, I am not sure, but here goes. One of the things I have

found to be very helpful in cleaning out my sinuses is making the

saline solution as hot as I can possibly stand it. My ENT has

a 'recipe' for homemade saline (too complicated) but I have cut that

down to 1 tbsp sea salt plus 1 tbsp baking soda in a quart saucepan of

water works just fine. Bring it to a boil, then let cool about 8-10

minutes. I test the water on the inside of my wrist; if it's OK there

it's going to be OK in the nose. Then, irrigate the entire saucepan

up there w/ the nasal syringe or whatever the technical term for the

rubber squeeze thing is. Like the rest of you I am always amazed at

all of the gunk that comes out but, if I do this 2x a day (not always

that diligent) as hot as I can stand it, I have found that I feel much

better and my sinuses are clearer. 3 1/2 months post surgery my sense

of smell is actually returning a little bit (that was surgery number

six). My 2c, hope it helps someone. WDP

March 26, 2008

>

> Wanted to pass on something that has been helpful for me when

cleaning

> out the sinuses. Maybe this has been covered previously or in the

> archives, I am not sure, but here goes. One of the things I have

> found to be very helpful in cleaning out my sinuses is making the

> saline solution as hot as I can possibly stand it. My ENT has

> a 'recipe' for homemade saline (too complicated) but I have cut

that

> down to 1 tbsp sea salt plus 1 tbsp baking soda in a quart

saucepan of

> water works just fine. Bring it to a boil, then let cool about 8-

10

> minutes. I test the water on the inside of my wrist; if it's OK

there

> it's going to be OK in the nose. Then, irrigate the entire

saucepan

> up there w/ the nasal syringe or whatever the technical term for

the

> rubber squeeze thing is. Like the rest of you I am always amazed

at

> all of the gunk that comes out but, if I do this 2x a day (not

always

> that diligent) as hot as I can stand it, I have found that I feel

much

> better and my sinuses are clearer. 3 1/2 months post surgery my

sense

> of smell is actually returning a little bit (that was surgery

number

> six). My 2c, hope it helps someone. WDP

>

I would feel better seeing some credible research regarding the

temperature and composition of this solution and its effects on in

vivo ciliary function.Its promising its worked for you but afraid to

try this myself.Close to body temperature makes the most sense for

me.Irrigating the sinuses can probably evolve further from a

ringer's solution at body temperature perhaps with xylitol in

it.Mayo clinic is looking at topical antifungals. Maybe some

biological detergent could be studied that would allow these agents

to be more effective?Or perhaps ways of interfering with the

March 26, 2008

1 Tbsp of salt to 1 Tbsp of baking soda seems to be a lot of soda. My formula is 1 Tbsp of sea salt to 1 tsp of soda per quart. I mix a gallon at a times and use it at room temperature. Seems to work fine. I would be interested in your ENT's formula.

Carl

Re: irrigation

>> Wanted to pass on something that has been helpful for me when cleaning > out the sinuses. Maybe this has been covered previously or in the > archives, I am not sure, but here goes. One of the things I have > found to be very helpful in cleaning out my sinuses is making the > saline solution as hot as I can possibly stand it. My ENT has > a 'recipe' for homemade saline (too complicated) but I have cut that > down to 1 tbsp sea salt plus 1 tbsp baking soda in a quart saucepan of > water works just fine. Bring it to a boil, then let cool about 8-10 > minutes. I test the water on the inside of my wrist; if it's OK there > it's going to be OK in the nose. Then, irrigate the entire saucepan > up there w/ the nasal syringe or whatever the technical term for the > rubber squeeze thing is. Like the rest of you I am always amazed at > all of the gunk that comes out but, if I do this 2x a day (not always > that diligent) as hot as I can stand it, I have found that I feel much > better and my sinuses are clearer. 3 1/2 months post surgery my sense > of smell is actually returning a little bit (that was surgery number > six). My 2c, hope it helps someone. WDP>I would feel better seeing some credible research regarding the temperature and composition of this solution and its effects on in vivo ciliary function.Its promising its worked for you but afraid to try this myself.Close to body temperature makes the most sense for me.Irrigating the sinuses can probably evolve further from a ringer's solution at body temperature perhaps with xylitol in it.Mayo clinic is looking at topical antifungals. Maybe some biological detergent could be studied that would allow these agents to be more effective?Or perhaps ways of interfering with the

March 27, 2008

Whenever I use saline solution that's on the hotter side, I ALWAYS get nosebleeds so I have to be VERY careful. There's an area up my nose or in my sinuses that seems to be very sensitive and probably the lining is very thin, so warmer water , and also cold water will make it bleed and this can take weeks to settle again. So, for me body temp or slightly cooler is the best option. Beckycondry <ondry@...> wrote: 1 Tbsp of salt to 1 Tbsp of baking soda seems to be a lot of

soda. My formula is 1 Tbsp of sea salt to 1 tsp of soda per quart. I mix a gallon at a times and use it at room temperature. Seems to work fine. I would be interested in your ENT's formula. Carl Re: irrigation >> Wanted to pass on something that has been helpful for me when cleaning > out the sinuses. Maybe this has been covered previously or in the > archives, I am not sure, but here goes. One of the things I have > found to be very helpful in cleaning out my sinuses is making the > saline solution as hot as I can possibly stand it. My ENT has > a 'recipe' for homemade saline (too complicated) but I have cut that > down to 1 tbsp sea salt plus 1 tbsp baking soda in a quart saucepan of > water works just fine. Bring it to a boil, then let cool about 8-10 > minutes. I test the water on the inside of my wrist; if it's OK there > it's going to be OK in the nose. Then, irrigate the entire saucepan > up there w/ the nasal syringe or whatever the technical term for the

> rubber squeeze thing is. Like the rest of you I am always amazed at > all of the gunk that comes out but, if I do this 2x a day (not always > that diligent) as hot as I can stand it, I have found that I feel much > better and my sinuses are clearer. 3 1/2 months post surgery my sense > of smell is actually returning a little bit (that was surgery number > six). My 2c, hope it helps someone. WDP>I would feel better seeing some credible research regarding the temperature and composition of this solution and its effects on in vivo ciliary function.Its promising its worked for you but afraid to try this myself.Close to body temperature makes the most sense for me.Irrigating the sinuses can probably evolve further from a ringer's solution at body temperature perhaps with xylitol in it.Mayo clinic is looking at topical antifungals. Maybe some biological detergent could be

studied that would allow these agents to be more effective?Or perhaps ways of interfering with the

Sent from .

More Ways to Keep in Touch.

March 27, 2008

My ENT also suggested warmer water when rinsing. I used a baby bottle

warmer, the neil med bottle fits perfectly in it.

March 28, 2008

I just boil water in the electric kettle the night before. And re-warm it in the morning.

Just finished my first two weeks of Neil-Med. I think it has made a difference.

Hope to start aspirin desens on Wednesday at UW in Madison.

Re: irrigation

My ENT also suggested warmer water when rinsing. I used a baby bottle

warmer, the neil med bottle fits perfectly in it.

Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

April 7, 2008

Lori,

I recently started using hte Sinucleanse and it does sting. I continue to use it because I can smell now. I am afraid to change because I may lose my sense of smell. I owe the ability to smell to the onion juice but I want to maintain it.

Re: irrigationActually NeilMed does not recommend sterile water; they recommend distilled water. The convenience of the NeilMed packets at a relatively low cost is well worth it for me -- I just think we should be more specific when we tell people things are expensive or not. It's about 10 bucks for 100 packets. I use 1-2 packets a day. Some may use more. So for me it's about $5-6 a month. If some find that expensive, then sure go ahead and mix your own. The other brand of packets I was using is called SinuCleanse, and I don't know, it must be a different ratio of the two ingredients, because it stings when I use it,

and I only use the NeilMed now.Lori> >> > I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what you are talking > about. > > I don't use the NeilMed bottle. I use a NetiPot.> > > > I don't know what you are talking about regarding scissors, funnels > > and sterile water. I also don't know what crusts are exactly -- I > > mean, I think I do, but I don't really know where you get them that > > they would need to be removed and that some other method could get > > rid of them. > > > > I don't think the NeilMed is that expensive, actually. But sure, > you > > can make your own. Some people do. I find

the particular mix to > > work very well for me. I don't like other brands, I have tried > > othres and I like the NeilMed the best. I find another, such as > > SinuRinse, I think it's called, too irritating and burning. The > > NeilMed is more soothing.> > > > I don't know why you would need more than one packet. I only use > one > > packet at a time. It's about 10 bucks for 100 packets, so if I use > 1-> > 2 a day, it lasts about two months. Five bucks a month doesn't > seem > > very expensive to me.> > > > I don't know what you mean by the sachet not being easy to fill, > > because quiet honestly I guess I don't know what a sachet is.> > > > Like I said, I use a NetiPot. It's very easy to fill. I use tap > > water.> >

> > Lori> > > > > > > > > Hello Again Truelori> > > My ENT asked me to trial the Neilmed and I have come up with the > > > (Pretty Lame,)following ;> > > > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo> > > NeilMed SinuRinse> > > > > > · Low-pressure squeeze bottle good for clearing pollutants from > > > nasal passages.> > > · Squeeze bottle flow not sustained enough for removing crusts.> > > · Squeeze bottle easy to use.> > > · Bottle not easy to fill.> > > · Sachet mix is not complex.> > > · Sachet mix is a fairly expensive solution.> > > · Sachet convenient if

only one is needed.> > > · Sachet is not so easy to fill.> > > > > > Conclusion;> > > Basic system which operates well for clearing pollutants, but > given > > > the need for sterile water, scissors, funnels, etc. is > > unnecessarily > > > complex in use.> > > > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo> > > > > > Does anyone agree/disagree, or have anything to add?> > > > > > Regards> > > B> > >> >>------------------------------------

April 7, 2008

If something stings, like SinuCleanse or Sinusbuster, then there must be

some irritation associated with that stinging.

That irritation probably causes the sinus passages to retract, and is a

component in making the rinse effective;

however,

I suspect that, just like bad nasal drops, eg., Otrivine

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100002956.html

this effectiveness is temporary and decreases over time.

So, while eg. onion juice or SinuCleanse may kick-start an irrigation

regime, from my own experience I truly believe that it is the irrigation

itself, just a simple saline solution, which provides the benefit over the

long term.

--

> From: gwenrafter@...

> I recently started using hte Sinucleanse and it does sting. I continue to use

> it because I can smell now. I am afraid to change because I may lose my sense

> of smell. I owe the ability to smell to the onion juice but I want to maintain

> it.

>> From: truelori <lori@...>

>>

>> The other brand of packets I was using is called SinuCleanse, and I

>> don't know, it must be a different ratio of the two ingredients,

>> because it stings when I use it, and I only use the NeilMed now.

April 15, 2008

Hi All, I posted on this earlier but reading Lori's reply I thought it was worth posting again. My experience w/ irrigation has been that: a) table salt is worthless and stings, always use sea salt; a ratio of 1.5 litres of water to 1 Tbsp sea salt and 1Tbsp baking soda works best; c) heat the mixture described in part for 10 min (maybe less on a gas burner, to a rolling boil, etc) then let cool for 15min; and d) test the mixture on the inside of your wrist and then irrigate the sinuses with it as warm as you can stand it. My belief is that the hotter, the better, as that helps to dislodge what we all have experienced, e.g. huge crusty nasty yellow things which we did not realize were up there. Believe me, I am an experienced Samters sufferer (six surgeries in 24 years) but after my last surgery in Dec '07 I have irrigated using this mixture at least 1x/day, and sometimes 3x/day,

and have never felt better. I am still hoping to recover a full sense of smell but after not having ANY smell for more than ten years, over the past few months following this aggressive irrigation routine I am starting to smell more than a few things. Also I have not been on antibiotics for a sinus infection since prior to the surgery, and this is very unusual. I urge you all to give this a try. Remember, no table salt, only sea salt - I believe all of the chemicals in table salt are causing the stinging. Sea salt is much more pure, and I feel much better using this... My 2c, hope it helps. truelori <lori@...> wrote: The onion juice doesn't sting when I use it, and it

still seemed to work. I don't know why it works, but it does. But I only have used it twice when I was developing infections. I don't use it normally.I just couldn't tolerate the Sinucleanse. Ken, Sinucleanse is nothing like Sinusbusters or anything like that, it's basically the same as irrigating with self-made solution or the NeilMed packets or whatever, it's just that it's a different ratio of the two ingredients (table salt and baking soda), and in my case it stung too much to use it at all. It just happened to be what came with my Neti-Pot. I don't know what the ratios are, but the Sinucleanse burns. The NeilMed says it's pH balanced, so maybe that's why it does not sting. I don't know. Anyway, they are both basically simple saline solution plus baking soda made from packets. Nothing fancy. I just find the convenience of the packets to work for

me.Lori------------------------------------

April 16, 2008

> From: WDP <lf_847@...>

> My experience w/ irrigation has been that: a) table salt is

> worthless and stings, always use sea salt; a ratio of 1.5 litres of water

> to 1 Tbsp sea salt and 1Tbsp baking soda works best;

This ratio is correct I think, although 1.5 litres sounds like a lot -- I am

happy with 500-600 ml.

I do not seem to need the basking soda.

>c) heat the mixture

> described in part for 10 min (maybe less on a gas burner, to a rolling

> boil, etc) then let cool for 15min; and d) test the mixture on the inside of

> your wrist and then irrigate the sinuses with it as warm as you can stand it.

>

I trust my tap-water, so I just put eg. 2 cups hot tap-water and 1 cup cold

tap-water (into the Waterpik reservoir), and that works fine every day. As

hot as I can stand it, with much less fuss.

> My belief is that the hotter, the better, as that helps to dislodge what we

> all have experienced, e.g. huge crusty nasty yellow things which we did not

> realize were up there.

Agreed. Stuff comes out that is not seen just by blowing. This was a big

revelation of irrigation. And, I often observe that some of the big stuff

comes out near the end of the process, and would otherwise still be up

there, causing grief. (Maybe 1.5L *is* a good idea!)

>Believe me, I am an experienced Samters sufferer (six

> surgeries in 24 years) but after my last surgery in Dec '07 I have irrigated

> using this mixture at least 1x/day, and sometimes 3x/day, and have never felt

> better.

My ENT was amazed to observe the reduction of polyps after 3 months of

regular irrigation.

> I am still hoping to recover a full sense of smell but after not

> having ANY smell for more than ten years, over the past few months following

> this aggressive irrigation routine I am starting to smell more than a few

> things.

Stick with it. In the 2 years since starting regular irrigation, my s-o-s

has come and gone, but I have had " perfect " s-o-s for the last 6 months now.

> Also I have not been on antibiotics for a sinus infection since prior

> to the surgery, and this is very unusual.

Yes, and although I continue to use a steroidal spray, I don't feel the need

for it all the time, and may go for days without it.

>

> I urge you all to give this a try. Remember, no table salt, only sea salt - I

> believe all of the chemicals in table salt are causing the stinging. Sea salt

> is much more pure, and I feel much better using this...

Is sea salt really pure? ie., just NaCl? The components of sea salt may

all be natural, but I would be surprised if it was " pure " . Table salt has

idodine added to it, but I am not aware of anything else. I have taken to

use Kosher salt, which I understand is the most pure.

Having said that, I have used all 3 without any noticable difference, and

without any stinging.

>

> My 2c, hope it helps.

Good post. (Any post about the benefits of irrigation is a good one.)

April 16, 2008

I recall

in the past that there was a huge discussion about types of salt. Sea salt is

not more pure. Table salt is essentially pure sodium chloride (assuming it is

non-iodized) with a tiny bit of additive to keep it from clumping and is therefore

essentially pure salt. Sea salt composition varies based on where it comes

from and contains various types of salts as well as trace minerals and possibly

other compounds such as clay. I would not recommend sea salt because you have

no good way of knowing what is in it but that is the chemist in me. I

personally use Kosher salt because it dissolves more easily than table salt and

is also pure sodium chloride. I use 2 teaspoons per 1L of water plus a ½ teaspoon

of baking soda in warm tap water.

The ultimate message here is that whatever

works for you and doesn’t burn but gets the nasty stuff out of your nose

is the way to go. The recipe varies.

K.

Re: Re:

irrigation

Hi All,

I posted on this earlier but reading Lori's reply I

thought it was worth posting again. My experience w/ irrigation has been

that: a) table salt is worthless and stings, always use sea salt; a

ratio of 1.5 litres of water to 1 Tbsp sea salt and 1Tbsp baking soda works

best; c) heat the mixture described in part for 10 min (maybe less on a

gas burner, to a rolling boil, etc) then let cool for 15min; and d) test the

mixture on the inside of your wrist and then irrigate the sinuses with it as

warm as you can stand it.

My belief is that the hotter, the better, as that

helps to dislodge what we all have experienced, e.g. huge crusty nasty yellow

things which we did not realize were up there. Believe me, I am an

experienced Samters sufferer (six surgeries in 24 years) but after my last

surgery in Dec '07 I have irrigated using this mixture at least 1x/day, and

sometimes 3x/day, and have never felt better. I am still hoping to

recover a full sense of smell but after not having ANY smell for more than ten

years, over the past few months following this aggressive irrigation routine I

am starting to smell more than a few things. Also I have not been on

antibiotics for a sinus infection since prior to the surgery, and this is very

unusual.

I urge you all to give this a try. Remember, no

table salt, only sea salt - I believe all of the chemicals in table salt are

causing the stinging. Sea salt is much more pure, and I feel much better

using this...

My 2c, hope it helps.

truelori

<loritruelori> wrote:

The

onion juice doesn't sting when I use it, and it still seemed to

work. I don't know why it works, but it does. But I only have used

it twice when I was developing infections. I don't use it normally.

I just couldn't tolerate the Sinucleanse. Ken, Sinucleanse is

nothing like Sinusbusters or anything like that, it's basically the

same as irrigating with self-made solution or the NeilMed packets or whatever,

it's just that it's a different ratio of the two

ingredients (table salt and baking soda), and in my case it stung too much to

use it at all.

It just happened to be what came with my Neti-Pot. I don't know what the ratios

are, but the Sinucleanse burns. The NeilMed says it's pH balanced, so maybe

that's why it does not sting. I don't know. Anyway, they are both basically

simple saline solution plus baking soda made from packets. Nothing fancy. I

just find the convenience of the packets to work for me.

Lori

------------------------------------

April 19, 2008

1.5litres is a lot, do you use it all in one go or store it for

a couple of days?

From: samters

[mailto:samters ] On Behalf Of WDP

Sent: 16 April, 2008 00:15

samters

Subject: Re: Re: irrigation

Hi All,

I posted on this earlier but reading Lori's reply I thought

it was worth posting again. My experience w/ irrigation has been

that: a) table salt is worthless and stings, always use sea salt; a

ratio of 1.5 litres of water to 1 Tbsp sea salt and 1Tbsp baking soda works

best; c) heat the mixture described in part for 10 min (maybe less on a

gas burner, to a rolling boil, etc) then let cool for 15min; and d) test the

mixture on the inside of your wrist and then irrigate the sinuses with it as

warm as you can stand it.

My belief is that the hotter, the better, as that helps to

dislodge what we all have experienced, e.g. huge crusty nasty yellow things

which we did not realize were up there. Believe me, I am an experienced

Samters sufferer (six surgeries in 24 years) but after my last surgery in Dec

'07 I have irrigated using this mixture at least 1x/day, and sometimes 3x/day,

and have never felt better. I am still hoping to recover a full sense of

smell but after not having ANY smell for more than ten years, over the past few

months following this aggressive irrigation routine I am starting to smell more

than a few things. Also I have not been on antibiotics for a sinus

infection since prior to the surgery, and this is very unusual.

I urge you all to give this a try. Remember, no table

salt, only sea salt - I believe all of the chemicals in table salt are causing

the stinging. Sea salt is much more pure, and I feel much better using

this...

My 2c, hope it helps.

truelori <lori@...> wrote:

The onion juice doesn't sting when

I use it, and it still seemed to

work. I don't know why it works, but it does. But I only have used

it twice when I was developing infections. I don't use it normally.

I just couldn't tolerate the Sinucleanse. Ken, Sinucleanse is

nothing like Sinusbusters or anything like that, it's basically the

same as irrigating with self-made solution or the NeilMed packets or whatever,

it's just that it's a different ratio of the two

ingredients (table salt and baking soda), and in my case it stung too much to

use it at all.

It just happened to be what came with my Neti-Pot. I don't know what the ratios

are, but the Sinucleanse burns. The NeilMed says it's pH balanced, so maybe

that's why it does not sting. I don't know. Anyway, they are both basically

simple saline solution plus baking soda made from packets. Nothing fancy. I

just find the convenience of the packets to work for me.

Lori

------------------------------------

April 19, 2008

Does most people use Nasonex alongside irrigation? Someone

mentioned it damages the nasal receptors after time. I have been something or

another for 10 years.

April 19, 2008

I personally

use 1liter 2 times per day… every day.