Guest guest Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hello Mals, I sounds to me that you should try to up your irrigation schedule to three times a day or what ever it takes to clear out the green goo. It's hard because you live in Las Vegas and are breathing that dry air. I have smaller dried stuff in the morning. I read that you said irrigate, irrigate, irrigate, but what does that mean. Try filling up the sinus, pinching your nose and turning your head around and upside down to make sure that it gets every where and has a chance to soften the stickers. I empathize with you, it sounds difficult. Pam On 1/14/09 9:29 PM, " malsyopal " <MalsYoPal@...> wrote: > Hello All! > > Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have had Samter's > for the past > 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. After the > second, my > polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not need another > surgery for > another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery I was placed > on > antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal steroids, > allergy/asthma > meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, I was on and > off a series > of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I broke out > into hives and > diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin). > > Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds) my polyps > are already > growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely not like > before I got Samter's > but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell things are > getting worse. My > ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them at least > once a month) > he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. Prior to this > last > appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings and often at > home > when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my nasal passages > and irrigate > the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm successful, > sometimes not > so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he cleaned my > frontal lobes > (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found surrounding the > polyps was > the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and harder (to the > point you > can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after my last > cleaning, my ENT was > speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): " Have you ever > thought about > going to a research institute? " > > The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford School of > Medicine > and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The reasoning my > ENT would > like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, " I am humbled by the fact > that I can not > fix you. " My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by far, I am > the most > unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL). > > Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and met with Dr. > Hwang > and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found that he is > indeed the > director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS Stanford!) > > Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus things coming > out their > nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my nose he can > see this > hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and believes I > may have a > mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an irrigation > regimen (I can't > survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I have two!) > and allergist > (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard gobs before, > until > they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how unusual my > symptoms > are. > > I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to be? LOL! > > Best to you all and breathe easy! > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I have these too- although the very hard mucus like big blobs of chewing gum are more yellowy/orange in colour - I guess it depends on what is growing in it. I have all sorts of other stuff growing in there too, which I irrigate twice a day, the way Pam suggests. I agree these are very hard to get out - mine only comes out with a course of sterooids which opens up my sinuses, otherwise, it's stuck up there and the only stuff I can irrigate out is the looser mucus. Good luck, BeckyPam <pam@...> wrote: Hello Mals,I sounds to me that you should try to up your irrigation schedule to threetimes a day or what ever it takes to clear out the green goo. It's hardbecause you live in Las Vegas and are breathing that dry air. I havesmaller dried stuff in the morning. I read that you said irrigate,irrigate, irrigate, but what does that mean. Try filling up the sinus,pinching your nose and turning your head around and upside down to make surethat it gets every where and has a chance to soften the stickers.I empathize with you, it sounds difficult.PamOn 1/14/09 9:29 PM, "malsyopal" <MalsYoPalhotmail> wrote:> Hello All!> > Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have had Samter's> for the past > 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. After the> second, my > polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not need another> surgery for > another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery I was placed> on > antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal steroids,> allergy/asthma > meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, I was on and> off a series > of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I broke out> into hives and > diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin).> > Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds) my polyps> are already > growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely not like> before I got Samter's> but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell things are> getting worse. My> ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them at least> once a month) > he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. Prior to this> last > appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings and often at> home > when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my nasal passages> and irrigate > the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm successful,> sometimes not > so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he cleaned my> frontal lobes > (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found surrounding the> polyps was > the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and harder (to the> point you > can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after my last> cleaning, my ENT was> speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): "Have you ever> thought about > going to a research institute?"> > The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford School of> Medicine > and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The reasoning my> ENT would > like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, "I am humbled by the fact> that I can not > fix you." My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by far, I am> the most > unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL).> > Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and met with Dr.> Hwang > and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found that he is> indeed the > director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS Stanford!)> > Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus things coming> out their > nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my nose he can> see this > hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and believes I> may have a > mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an irrigation> regimen (I can't > survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I have two!)> and allergist > (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard gobs before,> until > they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how unusual my> symptoms > are.> > I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to be? LOL!> > Best to you all and breathe easy!> > > ------------------------------------> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Thanks for responding! What I meant by irrigating was to do it as often as I can, which I do. I irrigate at least three times a day, sometimes more. And things keep coming out. I'll definitely try your suggestion Pam! Thanks for both your's and 's support! Mal > > > Hello All! > > > > Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have had Samter's > > for the past > > 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. After the > > second, my > > polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not need another > > surgery for > > another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery I was placed > > on > > antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal steroids, > > allergy/asthma > > meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, I was on and > > off a series > > of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I broke out > > into hives and > > diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin). > > > > Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds) my polyps > > are already > > growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely not like > > before I got Samter's > > but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell things are > > getting worse. My > > ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them at least > > once a month) > > he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. Prior to this > > last > > appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings and often at > > home > > when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my nasal passages > > and irrigate > > the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm successful, > > sometimes not > > so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he cleaned my > > frontal lobes > > (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found surrounding the > > polyps was > > the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and harder (to the > > point you > > can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after my last > > cleaning, my ENT was > > speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): " Have you ever > > thought about > > going to a research institute? " > > > > The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford School of > > Medicine > > and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The reasoning my > > ENT would > > like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, " I am humbled by the fact > > that I can not > > fix you. " My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by far, I am > > the most > > unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL). > > > > Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and met with Dr. > > Hwang > > and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found that he is > > indeed the > > director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS Stanford!) > > > > Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus things coming > > out their > > nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my nose he can > > see this > > hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and believes I > > may have a > > mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an irrigation > > regimen (I can't > > survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I have two!) > > and allergist > > (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard gobs before, > > until > > they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how unusual my > > symptoms > > are. > > > > I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to be? LOL! > > > > Best to you all and breathe easy! > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Yeah, I've seen this before - just not as frequently as you. I would say you are a " special " case. I usually get the hard green stuff after surgery, I figured it was a scab gone bad - 'cause they would come out about 3 weeks after surgery, when the doctor was doing his follow-up tinkering. However, rarely, after a course of antibiotics and prednisone I have had the orange/yellow/green hard glop come out too. If your Doc recommends this Dr. Hwang, he must have done something interesting with our special group of sufferers. If you do see him, please let us know what his suggestions/recommendations for your healing are. Thanks! Hey does anyone know of a narcotic/pain reliever other than tylenol that is real good about getting rid of the facial pain/headache? (I really don't want to go through ASA desens at this time in my life.) Even being on prednisone & antibiotics I still experience the pain. Hope everyone's new year is a good one! > > Hello All! > > Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have had Samter's for the past > 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. After the second, my > polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not need another surgery for > another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery I was placed on > antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal steroids, allergy/asthma > meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, I was on and off a series > of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I broke out into hives and > diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin). > > Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds) my polyps are already > growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely not like before I got Samter's > but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell things are getting worse. My > ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them at least once a month) > he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. Prior to this last > appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings and often at home > when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my nasal passages and irrigate > the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not > so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he cleaned my frontal lobes > (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found surrounding the polyps was > the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and harder (to the point you > can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after my last cleaning, my ENT was > speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): " Have you ever thought about > going to a research institute? " > > The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford School of Medicine > and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The reasoning my ENT would > like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, " I am humbled by the fact that I can not > fix you. " My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by far, I am the most > unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL). > > Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and met with Dr. Hwang > and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found that he is indeed the > director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS Stanford!) > > Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus things coming out their > nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my nose he can see this > hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and believes I may have a > mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an irrigation regimen (I can't > survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I have two!) and allergist > (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard gobs before, until > they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how unusual my symptoms > are. > > I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to be? LOL! > > Best to you all and breathe easy! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 , I get these scabs (mouldy cornflake looking things too - I get these more frequently than the gloppy stuff, as that is just after steroids. It's all delightful reallly, isn't it?! Beckycurrinbrat <currinbrat@...> wrote: Yeah, I've seen this before - just not as frequently as you. I would say you are a "special" case. :)I usually get the hard green stuff after surgery, I figured it was a scab gone bad - 'cause they would come out about 3 weeks after surgery, when the doctor was doing his follow-up tinkering. However, rarely, after a course of antibiotics and prednisone I have had the orange/yellow/green hard glop come out too. If your Doc recommends this Dr. Hwang, he must have done something interesting with our special group of sufferers. If you do see him, please let us know what his suggestions/recommendations for your healing are. Thanks!Hey does anyone know of a narcotic/pain reliever other than tylenol that is real good about getting rid of the facial pain/headache? (I really don't want to go through ASA desens at this time in my life.) Even being on prednisone & antibiotics I still experience the pain.Hope everyone's new year is a good one!>> Hello All!> > Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have had Samter's for the past > 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. After the second, my > polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not need another surgery for > another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery I was placed on > antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal steroids, allergy/asthma > meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, I was on and off a series > of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I broke out into hives and > diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin). > > Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds) my polyps are already > growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely not like before I got Samter's > but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell things are getting worse. My > ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them at least once a month) > he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. Prior to this last > appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings and often at home > when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my nasal passages and irrigate > the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not > so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he cleaned my frontal lobes > (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found surrounding the polyps was > the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and harder (to the point you > can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after my last cleaning, my ENT was > speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): "Have you ever thought about > going to a research institute?"> > The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford School of Medicine > and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The reasoning my ENT would > like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, "I am humbled by the fact that I can not > fix you." My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by far, I am the most > unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL). > > Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and met with Dr. Hwang > and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found that he is indeed the > director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS Stanford!) > > Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus things coming out their > nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my nose he can see this > hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and believes I may have a > mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an irrigation regimen (I can't > survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I have two!) and allergist > (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard gobs before, until > they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how unusual my symptoms > are.> > I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to be? LOL!> > Best to you all and breathe easy!> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I've been seeing more hard, green crusty things coming out of my sinuses in the last week or so and I have atttributed it to the very dry weather we have been having lately here in New England. Even our humidifier is struggling! Do you humidify your house? I did notice once we got the humidifier (when we realized winter up here was a lot drier than what we were used to in NC!) that my sinuses felt better. But the last week or so I have been getting both gooey green stuff (that sometimes smells nasty) and hard green crusties. They look kind of like scabs to me though what is scabbing up there I have no idea. I've been fortunate in that my polyps do not seem to be growing back (or at least not quickly) and it has been several years (I can't remember if it was 2003 or 2004...) since my 2 surgeries. Otherwise it sounds like what you are doing should help! I do know how you feel when your ENT lets you know you are a special case! My poor ENT back in NC will probably be glad to never see me again, I used to come up with things that would just make him shake his head and laugh because I think he'd go insane otherwise. My favorite was when I asked why sometimes I can only smell when I blow my nose. I can sniff in and not smell anything but I blow my nose, I can smell things. Go figure. Fortunately I haven't been that bad other than very short term for a long time. If you see the research dr let us know! Good luck, K. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 9:29 PM, malsyopal <MalsYoPal@...> wrote: Hello All!Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have had Samter's for the past 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. After the second, my polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not need another surgery for another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery I was placed on antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, I was on and off a series of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I broke out into hives and diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin). Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds) my polyps are already growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely not like before I got Samter's but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell things are getting worse. My ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them at least once a month) he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. Prior to this last appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings and often at home when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my nasal passages and irrigate the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he cleaned my frontal lobes (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found surrounding the polyps was the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and harder (to the point you can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after my last cleaning, my ENT was speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): " Have you ever thought about going to a research institute? " The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford School of Medicine and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The reasoning my ENT would like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, " I am humbled by the fact that I can not fix you. " My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by far, I am the most unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL). Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and met with Dr. Hwang and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found that he is indeed the director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS Stanford!) Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus things coming out their nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my nose he can see this hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and believes I may have a mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an irrigation regimen (I can't survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I have two!) and allergist (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard gobs before, until they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how unusual my symptoms are.I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to be? LOL!Best to you all and breathe easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 As said by , there may be a lack of moisture inside your sinuses, that causes mucus to dry on the spot. If the air is dry and if your natural ciliae function is impaired, mucus is produced but cannot be rolled out, and it therefore dries where it is produced, evenually piling up. Depending on the quantity of mucus produced and on the level of ciliary function impairment, these gobs could have any size. And if they form inside the sinuses and cannot be washed out by irrigation, they may end up filling the sinuses and causing pain and infection. They may already be somewhat more or less infected, because mucus that is not evacuated is a good place for bacteria to reproduce.All this might contribute to tissue inflammation, which in turn is a factor of polyp formation in polyp patients.Things that may help are :- drinking enough (lukewarm) fluids throughout the day, especially in the morning (after the night, when mucus stagnates), - irrigating with lukewarm (not cold) saline, several times a day to soften the cruds enough so they eventually detach ; it may take a long time to soften them layer by layer,- anatomical draining (ie bend over forward for a few minutes after each irrigation, to drain everything away),- drinking some fluidifier like Mucomyst (N-acetylcysteine) for a few days to see what happens ; normally, it is quite a good fluidifier ;- if you are brave enough to ask your ENT, Mucomyst also comes in ampules for nebulization, and you could irrigate with them in saline, but warm saline alone should do the trick, given time, if all your sinus openings have been widened enough,- once you get rid of all crusts and gobs, repeat the above regularly except for the Mucomyst (unless necessary).Also, you mention that you irrigate with 's solution. According to google, it is gentamycine in saline. Gentamycine being an antibiotic, I guess this has been prescribed by your ENT. I don't know how long you have been irrigating with dilute gentamycin nor how long your prescription is, but, as with all antibiotics, you should be aware that it must not be carried on indefinitely. There is the usual risk of germ resistance on the long term, and also, if you irrigate or nebulize for long, there is a risk of ear damage (gentamycin by IV is well known for causing ear and kidney damage as side effects ; certainly less so by irrigation, but still, the ear is not far away). Steroids are supposed to give protection from gentamycin toxicity, but I wouldn't go on irrigating with it indefinitely.Anyway, it looks like some examination is in order to understand what happens. Dr Hwang at Stanford has written articles about ciliary function and is therefore very knowledgeable in the matter. Maybe a germ culture will be necessary to see what germ is still in there, if any, and before germ culture, stopping gentamycin irrigation is absolutely required at least several days in advance, otherwise the culture will turn out negative even if there are germs (ask your ENT about this). Be sure to tell him of all the treatments /medications you have been following and for how long.Once any germ is eradicated, the basic anti-crud treatment is moistening and drainage with saline, plus steroid spray if required, and in the minimal dosage that is sufficient (in addition to all that applies to allergy and Samter's).--------------------http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentamicin---------------------from http://www.docflash.com/sinuses.html----------------------SINUSES You need a sinus like you need a hole in the head. In fact, that's all a sinus is. The only place you've got sinuses is in your face. You've got a pair under your eyes in your cheeks: a pair just behind the bridge of your nose; a pair in your forehead above your eyes: if you put your hands flat over your face, they'll cover all your sinuses. There are spaces left in the bones of the face when they form. All these spaces open into your nose, high up. They make the skull lighter; they help your voice resonate; and, importantly, provide a "crumple zone" that can protect your brain. When your face hits something (or something hits you) very hard, the sinuses break first, absorbing some of the impact and perhaps preventing lethal damage to the brain. Sinuses are lined with the same kind of skin that's inside the nose and lungs. Like them, it has cells that line it, produce mucus (which is designed to catch dust and germs, like flypaper) and sweep the mucus to the sinus opening, which is about as big as a letter /o/. People's sinus drainage varies. For some reason, people with long, narrow faces tend to have more sinus problems -- people with the "Prince " type face. People who look like Nanook the Eskimo don't get their sinuses blocked as often, in my experience. Sinuses get blocked when the mucus doesn't drain as fast as it's produced. Anything that causes your nose to run probably causes your sinuses to make more mucus, too. Allergies can do it, as can a cold or even chronic exposure to irritants like cigarette smoke or other chemicals. If your sinuses can't empty drain through the tiny hole to the nose, you've got a problem. If allergies are your problem, there are now some new allergy treatments that can really help. Some of the new antihistamines don't make you sleepy, and there are topical steroid nasal sprays that can eliminate allergy symptoms in many people. Elastic strips that help hold your nose open help a lot, too. Two things that commonly keep the sinus from draining well are tobacco smoke and dryness. Nicotine paralyzes the cells that sweep out the dust and germ-laden mucus, and dryness makes that mucus drier and stickier. When you're outside in a hot and dry place, the mucus in your nose turns dry, hard, and sticky. Your sinuses are designed to move moist, liquid mucus; not rocks. If the opening to the sinus is blocked by one of these chunks of dried mucus, the problems get worse quickly. Cells that produce mucus keep on doing so, even when the sinus doesn't drain normally. This increases pressure, and the pressure causes pain. And, a pool of stagnant mucus in your sinus is ripe for infection. There's nothing more appetizing to a germ than a pool of stagnant mucus. Yum! The real trouble starts once your sinus is infected. If the pressure gets high enough, it impairs the blood flow to the area. The body then can't get white blood cells there to fight the infection. The germs grow unopposed, and you can find yourself in a medical emergency. People can die from a bad sinus infection that doesn't get proper treatment. Badly infected sinuses hurt. They're tender if you tap on the forehead or face over the sinus; the skin may be warm or red; and often you'll have a fever. This is a medical emergency: contact your doctor. When a sinus gets a bacterial infection, antibiotics can be life-saving. Two things are necessary in treatment: drain the sinus, and kill the germs. Of the two, drainage is the most important. Remember the dried mucus that can plug the sinus opening? This may be contributing to the problem. To moisten it, you must drink lots of extra fluids (try to drink enough to make your urine clear) and get more moisture in the air you're breathing. Taking a hot shower with the doors and windows closed and the fan off can help; so can putting your face over a steaming hot pan of water with a towel over your head. If you moisten a piece of dried mucus that's blocking the tiny sinus opening, you might make it slippery enough to slip out. Swollen mucus membranes can block the sinuses. If you nose is stuffy and it's hard to breath, the opening to your sinuses may be swollen causing problems draining. One of the few times that I recommend decongestants is when a sinus is blocked. If you do take them, take extra fluids! I also recommend a 12-hour nasal spray containing oxymetozaline to shrink swollen membranes. It's important to use nasal sprays correctly. First, try not to use them for more than about 5 days, or you might get rebound congestion when you stop. When actually using the spray, you need to decongest your nose all the way up to the sinus opening. Since your nose has little "shelves" of bone (called turbinates) that make the air you breath swirl and drop its dust on the lining, you must decongest it a stage at a time. Blow your nose well, and clean out whatever you can. Then, close the other nostril with a finger: breath in sharply; and spray the decongestant into each nostril; wait three minutes and repeat. This will hopefully open your nose all the way back to the sinus opening, and the decongestant may shrink the tissues around the hole itself, hopefully relieving the blockage. Remember that decongestants should not be used by people with high blood pressure or heart disease without checking with your doctor first. Once your nose is open, it would be a good time to breath in the steam mentioned earlier. If one side of your face is more congested than the other, sleep with the bad side up since it's easier for a sinus to drain downhill. A hot water bottle or heating pad may helps, too, and ice bags can be a great help in stopping a sinus headache. Remember: tobacco smoke paralyzes your sinus linings, as well as your lungs. So: if you've got a sinus problem, you need cigarettes like a hole in the head. 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Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re-reading your post, I add that I see you have been on antibiotics for a long time, both orally and by irrigation, and that gobs started at the same time than gentamycin irrigation. That is just a total hypothesis, but maybe one cannot rule out that the gentamycin irrigation has irritated your mucosa or the polyps and that this creates a vicious inflammatory circle. Or maybe you have an infection, and the gentamycin barely contains it, and that also feeds the polyps' growth. Either way, a properly done endoscopic germ culture is in order, after stopping all antibiotics. > > Hello All! > > Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have had Samter's for the past > 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. After the second, my > polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not need another surgery for > another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery I was placed on > antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal steroids, allergy/asthma > meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, I was on and off a series > of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I broke out into hives and > diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin). > > Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds) my polyps are already > growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely not like before I got Samter's > but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell things are getting worse. My > ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them at least once a month) > he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. Prior to this last > appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings and often at home > when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my nasal passages and irrigate > the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not > so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he cleaned my frontal lobes > (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found surrounding the polyps was > the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and harder (to the point you > can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after my last cleaning, my ENT was > speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): " Have you ever thought about > going to a research institute? " > > The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford School of Medicine > and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The reasoning my ENT would > like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, " I am humbled by the fact that I can not > fix you. " My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by far, I am the most > unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL). > > Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and met with Dr. Hwang > and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found that he is indeed the > director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS Stanford!) > > Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus things coming out their > nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my nose he can see this > hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and believes I may have a > mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an irrigation regimen (I can't > survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I have two!) and allergist > (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard gobs before, until > they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how unusual my symptoms > are. > > I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to be? LOL! > > Best to you all and breathe easy! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Maybe he has already tried, but if this is not the case, your doctor should go after the cause of the headache in the first place. As you know, NSAIDS are off limits. Except maybe for COX-2-specific inhibitors, which are allowed for a majority of Samter patients, but may cause shock in a minority, so there is a possibility and a risk, and that is a matter to discuss with a knowledgeable doctor. > > > > Hello All! > > > > Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have > had Samter's for the past > > 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. > After the second, my > > polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not > need another surgery for > > another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery > I was placed on > > antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal > steroids, allergy/asthma > > meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, > I was on and off a series > > of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I > broke out into hives and > > diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin). > > > > Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma > meds) my polyps are already > > growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely > not like before I got Samter's > > but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell > things are getting worse. My > > ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them > at least once a month) > > he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. > Prior to this last > > appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings > and often at home > > when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my > nasal passages and irrigate > > the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm > successful, sometimes not > > so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he > cleaned my frontal lobes > > (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found > surrounding the polyps was > > the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and > harder (to the point you > > can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after > my last cleaning, my ENT was > > speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): " Have > you ever thought about > > going to a research institute? " > > > > The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford > School of Medicine > > and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The > reasoning my ENT would > > like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, " I am humbled > by the fact that I can not > > fix you. " My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by > far, I am the most > > unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL). > > > > Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and > met with Dr. Hwang > > and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found > that he is indeed the > > director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS > Stanford!) > > > > Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus > things coming out their > > nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my > nose he can see this > > hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and > believes I may have a > > mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an > irrigation regimen (I can't > > survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I > have two!) and allergist > > (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard > gobs before, until > > they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how > unusual my symptoms > > are. > > > > I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to > be? LOL! > > > > Best to you all and breathe easy! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 You make a good point about “anatomical draining.” I have found I breathe much better and my sinuses are clearer when I do a certain set of yoga exercises for 5 mins every day in the morning after irrigating. They are specific ones that get my head down low so my sinuses can drain and if I don’t do them, I notice it! K. From: samters [mailto:samters ] On Behalf Of asfyso Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:24 PM samters Subject: Re: Hard Green Mucus As said by , there may be a lack of moisture inside your sinuses, that causes mucus to dry on the spot. If the air is dry and if your natural ciliae function is impaired, mucus is produced but cannot be rolled out, and it therefore dries where it is produced, evenually piling up. Depending on the quantity of mucus produced and on the level of ciliary function impairment, these gobs could have any size. And if they form inside the sinuses and cannot be washed out by irrigation, they may end up filling the sinuses and causing pain and infection. They may already be somewhat more or less infected, because mucus that is not evacuated is a good place for bacteria to reproduce. All this might contribute to tissue inflammation, which in turn is a factor of polyp formation in polyp patients. Things that may help are : - drinking enough (lukewarm) fluids throughout the day, especially in the morning (after the night, when mucus stagnates), - irrigating with lukewarm (not cold) saline, several times a day to soften the cruds enough so they eventually detach ; it may take a long time to soften them layer by layer, - anatomical draining (ie bend over forward for a few minutes after each irrigation, to drain everything away), - drinking some fluidifier like Mucomyst (N-acetylcysteine) for a few days to see what happens ; normally, it is quite a good fluidifier ; - if you are brave enough to ask your ENT, Mucomyst also comes in ampules for nebulization, and you could irrigate with them in saline, but warm saline alone should do the trick, given time, if all your sinus openings have been widened enough, - once you get rid of all crusts and gobs, repeat the above regularly except for the Mucomyst (unless necessary). Also, you mention that you irrigate with 's solution. According to google, it is gentamycine in saline. Gentamycine being an antibiotic, I guess this has been prescribed by your ENT. I don't know how long you have been irrigating with dilute gentamycin nor how long your prescription is, but, as with all antibiotics, you should be aware that it must not be carried on indefinitely. There is the usual risk of germ resistance on the long term, and also, if you irrigate or nebulize for long, there is a risk of ear damage (gentamycin by IV is well known for causing ear and kidney damage as side effects ; certainly less so by irrigation, but still, the ear is not far away). Steroids are supposed to give protection from gentamycin toxicity, but I wouldn't go on irrigating with it indefinitely. Anyway, it looks like some examination is in order to understand what happens. Dr Hwang at Stanford has written articles about ciliary function and is therefore very knowledgeable in the matter. Maybe a germ culture will be necessary to see what germ is still in there, if any, and before germ culture, stopping gentamycin irrigation is absolutely required at least several days in advance, otherwise the culture will turn out negative even if there are germs (ask your ENT about this). Be sure to tell him of all the treatments /medications you have been following and for how long. Once any germ is eradicated, the basic anti-crud treatment is moistening and drainage with saline, plus steroid spray if required, and in the minimal dosage that is sufficient (in addition to all that applies to allergy and Samter's). -------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentamicin --------------------- from http://www.docflash.com/sinuses.html ---------------------- SINUSES You need a sinus like you need a hole in the head. In fact, that's all a sinus is. The only place you've got sinuses is in your face. You've got a pair under your eyes in your cheeks: a pair just behind the bridge of your nose; a pair in your forehead above your eyes: if you put your hands flat over your face, they'll cover all your sinuses. There are spaces left in the bones of the face when they form. All these spaces open into your nose, high up. They make the skull lighter; they help your voice resonate; and, importantly, provide a " crumple zone " that can protect your brain. When your face hits something (or something hits you) very hard, the sinuses break first, absorbing some of the impact and perhaps preventing lethal damage to the brain. Sinuses are lined with the same kind of skin that's inside the nose and lungs. Like them, it has cells that line it, produce mucus (which is designed to catch dust and germs, like flypaper) and sweep the mucus to the sinus opening, which is about as big as a letter /o/. People's sinus drainage varies. For some reason, people with long, narrow faces tend to have more sinus problems -- people with the " Prince " type face. People who look like Nanook the Eskimo don't get their sinuses blocked as often, in my experience. Sinuses get blocked when the mucus doesn't drain as fast as it's produced. Anything that causes your nose to run probably causes your sinuses to make more mucus, too. Allergies can do it, as can a cold or even chronic exposure to irritants like cigarette smoke or other chemicals. If your sinuses can't empty drain through the tiny hole to the nose, you've got a problem. If allergies are your problem, there are now some new allergy treatments that can really help. Some of the new antihistamines don't make you sleepy, and there are topical steroid nasal sprays that can eliminate allergy symptoms in many people. Elastic strips that help hold your nose open help a lot, too. Two things that commonly keep the sinus from draining well are tobacco smoke and dryness. Nicotine paralyzes the cells that sweep out the dust and germ-laden mucus, and dryness makes that mucus drier and stickier. When you're outside in a hot and dry place, the mucus in your nose turns dry, hard, and sticky. Your sinuses are designed to move moist, liquid mucus; not rocks. If the opening to the sinus is blocked by one of these chunks of dried mucus, the problems get worse quickly. Cells that produce mucus keep on doing so, even when the sinus doesn't drain normally. This increases pressure, and the pressure causes pain. And, a pool of stagnant mucus in your sinus is ripe for infection. There's nothing more appetizing to a germ than a pool of stagnant mucus. Yum! The real trouble starts once your sinus is infected. If the pressure gets high enough, it impairs the blood flow to the area. The body then can't get white blood cells there to fight the infection. The germs grow unopposed, and you can find yourself in a medical emergency. People can die from a bad sinus infection that doesn't get proper treatment. Badly infected sinuses hurt. They're tender if you tap on the forehead or face over the sinus; the skin may be warm or red; and often you'll have a fever. This is a medical emergency: contact your doctor. When a sinus gets a bacterial infection, antibiotics can be life-saving. Two things are necessary in treatment: drain the sinus, and kill the germs. Of the two, drainage is the most important. Remember the dried mucus that can plug the sinus opening? This may be contributing to the problem. To moisten it, you must drink lots of extra fluids (try to drink enough to make your urine clear) and get more moisture in the air you're breathing. Taking a hot shower with the doors and windows closed and the fan off can help; so can putting your face over a steaming hot pan of water with a towel over your head. If you moisten a piece of dried mucus that's blocking the tiny sinus opening, you might make it slippery enough to slip out. Swollen mucus membranes can block the sinuses. If you nose is stuffy and it's hard to breath, the opening to your sinuses may be swollen causing problems draining. One of the few times that I recommend decongestants is when a sinus is blocked. If you do take them, take extra fluids! I also recommend a 12-hour nasal spray containing oxymetozaline to shrink swollen membranes. It's important to use nasal sprays correctly. First, try not to use them for more than about 5 days, or you might get rebound congestion when you stop. When actually using the spray, you need to decongest your nose all the way up to the sinus opening. Since your nose has little " shelves " of bone (called turbinates) that make the air you breath swirl and drop its dust on the lining, you must decongest it a stage at a time. Blow your nose well, and clean out whatever you can. Then, close the other nostril with a finger: breath in sharply; and spray the decongestant into each nostril; wait three minutes and repeat. This will hopefully open your nose all the way back to the sinus opening, and the decongestant may shrink the tissues around the hole itself, hopefully relieving the blockage. Remember that decongestants should not be used by people with high blood pressure or heart disease without checking with your doctor first. Once your nose is open, it would be a good time to breath in the steam mentioned earlier. If one side of your face is more congested than the other, sleep with the bad side up since it's easier for a sinus to drain downhill. A hot water bottle or heating pad may helps, too, and ice bags can be a great help in stopping a sinus headache. Remember: tobacco smoke paralyzes your sinus linings, as well as your lungs. So: if you've got a sinus problem, you need cigarettes like a hole in the head. 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Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hello Everyone! Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You seem to be very knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit to see Dr. Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to my last surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor changes in my frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I look just like from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes, polyps galore. I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed (surprise, surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose but did not expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6 months later appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing my patient history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery since the May 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help and therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my case with him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step, however in order to be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be pointless to fly up to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery, I also reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me they can't help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford Hospital at Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple opinion won't hurt. I don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm still feeling somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out and under some control. Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts, especially regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics since January and my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I absolutely HATE. (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes me not to sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While using it for the past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as the 's. I will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper) since I need something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive thoughts and good breathing! > > > > Hello All! > > > > Just a quick background: I'm 24, live in Las Vegas, NV, and have had > Samter's for the past > > 3 years. I had my first surgery Dec 2007, the second Aug 2008. After > the second, my > > polyps were already growing back but I was told that I may not need > another surgery for > > another year to three years. To prolong the time between surgery I > was placed on > > antibiotics, prednisone, and told to continue my regimen of nasal > steroids, allergy/asthma > > meds, and irrigate, irrigate, irrigate. From August to December, I > was on and off a series > > of different antibiotics at different times, until in December I broke > out into hives and > > diarrhea from Augmentin XR (stronger than regular Augmentin). > > > > Coming off all of that (except nasal steroids, allergy/asthma meds) my > polyps are already > > growing back in full force. While I'm feeling fine (definitely not > like before I got Samter's > > but better than before the first surgery) I can certainly tell things > are getting worse. My > > ENT confirmed this to me while at my last nasal cleaning (get them at > least once a month) > > he pulled out large, one-inch long, hard, green, gobs of mucus. Prior > to this last > > appointment these hard pieces would come out during my cleanings and > often at home > > when I would irrigate. Usually I can feel them far up past my nasal > passages and irrigate > > the hell out of my nose to try to get them out. Sometimes I'm > successful, sometimes not > > so much. During my last surgery, my ENT told me that when he cleaned > my frontal lobes > > (basically my forehead) the majority of the mucus he found surrounding > the polyps was > > the hard green mucus. The gobs have since gotten larger and harder > (to the point you > > can't tear it in half without cutting it with scissors). So after my > last cleaning, my ENT was > > speechless, to which he did say (when he did finally speak): " Have you > ever thought about > > going to a research institute? " > > > > The institute in which he recommends for me to see is the Stanford > School of Medicine > > and he would like me to see their director, Dr. Hwang. The > reasoning my ENT would > > like me to visit Dr. Hwang is because, and I quote, " I am humbled by > the fact that I can not > > fix you. " My ENT sees two other Samter's patients, and he says by > far, I am the most > > unusual and interesting, i.e. the worst. (LOL). > > > > Essentially my question is twofold: Has anyone ever visited and met > with Dr. Hwang > > and/or the Stanford School of Medicine? I've googled him and found > that he is indeed the > > director and the institution certainly looks legit (it IS Stanford!) > > > > Also, does anyone else experience these huge, green, hard mucus things > coming out their > > nose? My ENT hasn't ever seen them before. He mentioned in my nose > he can see this > > hard mucus surrounds where my polyps are continually growing and > believes I may have a > > mucosa problem. They have been occurring since I started an > irrigation regimen (I can't > > survive without 's Solution), and both my other ENT (yes I have > two!) and allergist > > (best in Nevada) have never seen such abnormally large and hard gobs > before, until > > they've seen mine. Whenever I do see any of them, they say how > unusual my symptoms > > are. > > > > I guess I want to know if I'm as special as they make me out to be? > LOL! > > > > Best to you all and breathe easy! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Re: Hard Green Mucus " My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am growing back so quickly " Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds. Hello Everyone! Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You seem to be very knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit to see Dr. Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to my last surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor changes in my frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I look just like from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes, polyps galore. I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed (surprise, surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose but did not expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6 months later appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing my patient history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery since the May 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help and therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my case with him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step, however in order to be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be pointless to fly up to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery, I also reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me they can't help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford Hospital at Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple opinion won't hurt. I don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm still feeling somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out and under some control. Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts, especially regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics since January and my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I absolutely HATE. (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes me not to sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While using it for the past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as the 's. I will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper) since I need something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive thoughts and good breathing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I also had this gross experience, and my doctor said the hard green stuff had been there a long time and that was why it was like that. I questioned it because my nasal culture tested positive for pseudomonas bacteria about a year ago following polyp surgery. I've been on Levaquin 10 days a month for about six months. The main thing is I'm not getting bronchitis as often. Trying to look on the bright side. Take care! Ruann From: Ekren <ekren@...>Subject: RE: Re: Hard Green Mucussamters Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 1:55 PM Re: Hard Green Mucus"My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I amgrowing back so quickly"Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused bybacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds.Hello Everyone!Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! Youseem to be veryknowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer?Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visitto see Dr. Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior tomy lastsurgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minorchanges in myfrontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially Ilook just likefrom last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes,polyps galore.I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed(surprise,surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nosebut did notexpect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6months laterappearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too.The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowingmy patienthistory other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgerysince the May2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does notknow why I amgrowing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to helpandtherefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang.My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed mycase withhim and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step,however in order tobe a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery.I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would bepointless to fly upto San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery,I alsoreminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told methey can'thelp. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at StanfordHospital atStanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simpleopinion won't hurt. Idon't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'mstill feelingsomewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this outand undersome control.Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts,especiallyregarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibioticssince January andmy ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which Iabsolutely HATE.(With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causesme not tosleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. Whileusing it for thepast 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good asthe 's. Iwill ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper)since I needsomething to help break down this nasty hard mucus.I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positivethoughts andgood breathing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hello All! Just wanted to keep you updated my endless sinus journey as it has been sometime... After visiting with Dr. Hwang at Stanford Univ. back in February, like my local ENT, he suggested a third surgery however believed that would only be a temporary fix seeing I have needed one every year for the past three years. He pressed that he wanted to find what the underlying cause of my conditions were before surgery. He then took some cultures of mucus and it was found I had a nice case of a bacterial infection called pseudomonas. Promptly I was given a prescription for Cirpofloaxcin, a commonly used antibiotic for pseudomonas, but was cautioned to watch out for any muscle pains, aches, and spasms. When my back started hurting two days after taking it, I alerted the nurse at Stanford and she then informed me there were only three other type of antibiotics that I could take to fight the infection. Most recently finding I am allergic to penicillin, two of the three antibiotics were automatically ruled out which left me to with Tobramycin, which could only be given to me intravenously, leading me to get a nice PICC line in the beginning of April. Soon after receiving Tobramycin, I noticed I was feeling a lot better: my mucus no longer was hard, green, but more clear and yellow, my asthma cleared, congestion gone. The PICC line was removed 6 weeks later (mid-May). I followed up with a visit with my local ENT and reiterated to him how I didn't want to repeat the past 2-3 years and what were the next steps we should take. While he still suggested a surgery to clean me up, he asked me if I felt alright to come back to see him in 6-8 weeks to see if my good health lasted, if the pseudomonas would return, or if any other problems would arise. About 3 weeks ago, congestion started building back up in my chest and nose, and the green little monsters were back in full force. After seeing my local ENT today, he took some cultures from my nose and ordered a full biopsy and test to see if the bacteria was indeed back. I then asked him what should be our course of plan and he suggested surgery but said he felt more comfortable to have Dr. Hwang perform it in hopes of testing and finding any other underlying problems that he may not be familiar with. He also said he could place me on antibiotics, prednisone, etc., but he knew that would only be temporary and I objected to the prednisone, as usual, due to the terrible insomnia they cause. So here I am, over 6 months later, and almost a year from my last surgery, almost at the same point. While it was great to find out that pseudomonas was a major culprit of my problems, I'm worried it is not the complete evil. Also, Dr. Hwang is hesitant to say I am completely Samter's at this point although it hasn't been fully ruled out. He even told me that he'd never seen any type of mucus consistency like mine and was amazed I was breathing. So, only time will tell at this point. Also, was wondering, does anyone know if having polyps for long term can hair to grow slowly or even hair loss? I pretty much have polyps in all my sinus cavities (minus my right and left cheeks, allowing me some minimal relief). My hairdresser and I have noticed that over the course of a year, the top of my hair has grown noticeably slower than the back. It isn't necessarily thinning, just slower and not as much as the back. I was wondering if this was due to having polyps in this area, as I do, and if anyone else found this happening. Thanks for all the support and I hope we all find relief someday! Mal > > > > Re: Hard Green Mucus > > " My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am > growing back so quickly " > > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by > bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds. > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone! > > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You > seem to be very > knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? > > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit > to see Dr. > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to > my last > surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor > changes in my > frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I > look just like > from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes, > polyps galore. > > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed > (surprise, > surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose > but did not > expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6 > months later > appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. > > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing > my patient > history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery > since the May > 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not > know why I am > growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help > and > therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. > > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my > case with > him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step, > however in order to > be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. > > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be > pointless to fly up > to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery, > I also > reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me > they can't > help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford > Hospital at > Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple > opinion won't hurt. I > don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm > still feeling > somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out > and under > some control. > > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts, > especially > regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics > since January and > my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I > absolutely HATE. > (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes > me not to > sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While > using it for the > past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as > the 's. I > will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper) > since I need > something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. > > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive > thoughts and > good breathing! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hi Mal, This hrad green mucuc sounds very familiar, as does the rest of your history! As for the hair slowing/loss.. I'm not sure whether polyps have anything to do with it, but I know that prednisolone causes some hair loss. Becky From: malsyopal <MalsYoPal@...>samters@...Sent: Tuesday, 21 July, 2009 7:48:43Subject: Re: Hard Green Mucus Hello All!Just wanted to keep you updated my endless sinus journey as it has been sometime...After visiting with Dr. Hwang at Stanford Univ. back in February, like my local ENT, he suggested a third surgery however believed that would only be a temporary fix seeing I have needed one every year for the past three years. He pressed that he wanted to find what the underlying cause of my conditions were before surgery.. He then took some cultures of mucus and it was found I had a nice case of a bacterial infection called pseudomonas. Promptly I was given a prescription for Cirpofloaxcin, a commonly used antibiotic for pseudomonas, but was cautioned to watch out for any muscle pains, aches, and spasms. When my back started hurting two days after taking it, I alerted the nurse at Stanford and she then informed me there were only three other type of antibiotics that I could take to fight the infection. Most recently finding I am allergic to penicillin, two of the three antibiotics were automatically ruled out which left me to with Tobramycin, which could only be given to me intravenously, leading me to get a nice PICC line in the beginning of April. Soon after receiving Tobramycin, I noticed I was feeling a lot better: my mucus no longer was hard, green, but more clear and yellow, my asthma cleared, congestion gone. The PICC line was removed 6 weeks later (mid-May). I followed up with a visit with my local ENT and reiterated to him how I didn't want to repeat the past 2-3 years and what were the next steps we should take. While he still suggested a surgery to clean me up, he asked me if I felt alright to come back to see him in 6-8 weeks to see if my good health lasted, if the pseudomonas would return, or if any other problems would arise. About 3 weeks ago, congestion started building back up in my chest and nose, and the green little monsters were back in full force. After seeing my local ENT today, he took some cultures from my nose and ordered a full biopsy and test to see if the bacteria was indeed back. I then asked him what should be our course of plan and he suggested surgery but said he felt more comfortable to have Dr. Hwang perform it in hopes of testing and finding any other underlying problems that he may not be familiar with. He also said he could place me on antibiotics, prednisone, etc., but he knew that would only be temporary and I objected to the prednisone, as usual, due to the terrible insomnia they cause.So here I am, over 6 months later, and almost a year from my last surgery, almost at the same point. While it was great to find out that pseudomonas was a major culprit of my problems, I'm worried it is not the complete evil. Also, Dr. Hwang is hesitant to say I am completely Samter's at this point although it hasn't been fully ruled out. He even told me that he'd never seen any type of mucus consistency like mine and was amazed I was breathing. So, only time will tell at this point. Also, was wondering, does anyone know if having polyps for long term can hair to grow slowly or even hair loss? I pretty much have polyps in all my sinus cavities (minus my right and left cheeks, allowing me some minimal relief). My hairdresser and I have noticed that over the course of a year, the top of my hair has grown noticeably slower than the back. It isn't necessarily thinning, just slower and not as much as the back. I was wondering if this was due to having polyps in this area, as I do, and if anyone else found this happening.Thanks for all the support and I hope we all find relief someday!Mal>> > > Re: Hard Green Mucus> > "My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am> growing back so quickly"> > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by> bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds.> > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone!> > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You> seem to be very> knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer?> > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit> to see Dr. > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to> my last> surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor> changes in my> frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I> look just like> from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes,> polyps galore.> > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed> (surprise,> surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose> but did not> expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6> months later> appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too.> > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing> my patient> history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery> since the May> 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not> know why I am> growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help> and> therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang.> > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my> case with> him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step,> however in order to> be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery.> > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be> pointless to fly up> to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery,> I also> reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me> they can't> help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford> Hospital at> Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple> opinion won't hurt. I> don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm> still feeling> somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out> and under> some control.> > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts,> especially> regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics> since January and> my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I> absolutely HATE.> (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes> me not to> sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While> using it for the> past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as> the 's. I> will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper)> since I need> something to help break down this nasty hard mucus.> > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive> thoughts and> good breathing!> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Yes all very familiar indeed but for the hair loss but then as we’ve all learned through here, everyone differs. I’ve never had a problem with hair loss despite a high amount of prednisone so I guess I’m one of the luckier ones. From: Bannister [mailto:beckyb256@...] Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2009 7:22 PM samters Subject: Re: Re: Hard Green Mucus Hi Mal, This hrad green mucuc sounds very familiar, as does the rest of your history! As for the hair slowing/loss.. I'm not sure whether polyps have anything to do with it, but I know that prednisolone causes some hair loss. Becky From: malsyopal <MalsYoPal@...> samters@... Sent: Tuesday, 21 July, 2009 7:48:43 Subject: Re: Hard Green Mucus Hello All! Just wanted to keep you updated my endless sinus journey as it has been sometime... After visiting with Dr. Hwang at Stanford Univ. back in February, like my local ENT, he suggested a third surgery however believed that would only be a temporary fix seeing I have needed one every year for the past three years. He pressed that he wanted to find what the underlying cause of my conditions were before surgery.. He then took some cultures of mucus and it was found I had a nice case of a bacterial infection called pseudomonas. Promptly I was given a prescription for Cirpofloaxcin, a commonly used antibiotic for pseudomonas, but was cautioned to watch out for any muscle pains, aches, and spasms. When my back started hurting two days after taking it, I alerted the nurse at Stanford and she then informed me there were only three other type of antibiotics that I could take to fight the infection. Most recently finding I am allergic to penicillin, two of the three antibiotics were automatically ruled out which left me to with Tobramycin, which could only be given to me intravenously, leading me to get a nice PICC line in the beginning of April. Soon after receiving Tobramycin, I noticed I was feeling a lot better: my mucus no longer was hard, green, but more clear and yellow, my asthma cleared, congestion gone. The PICC line was removed 6 weeks later (mid-May). I followed up with a visit with my local ENT and reiterated to him how I didn't want to repeat the past 2-3 years and what were the next steps we should take. While he still suggested a surgery to clean me up, he asked me if I felt alright to come back to see him in 6-8 weeks to see if my good health lasted, if the pseudomonas would return, or if any other problems would arise. About 3 weeks ago, congestion started building back up in my chest and nose, and the green little monsters were back in full force. After seeing my local ENT today, he took some cultures from my nose and ordered a full biopsy and test to see if the bacteria was indeed back. I then asked him what should be our course of plan and he suggested surgery but said he felt more comfortable to have Dr. Hwang perform it in hopes of testing and finding any other underlying problems that he may not be familiar with. He also said he could place me on antibiotics, prednisone, etc., but he knew that would only be temporary and I objected to the prednisone, as usual, due to the terrible insomnia they cause. So here I am, over 6 months later, and almost a year from my last surgery, almost at the same point. While it was great to find out that pseudomonas was a major culprit of my problems, I'm worried it is not the complete evil. Also, Dr. Hwang is hesitant to say I am completely Samter's at this point although it hasn't been fully ruled out. He even told me that he'd never seen any type of mucus consistency like mine and was amazed I was breathing. So, only time will tell at this point. Also, was wondering, does anyone know if having polyps for long term can hair to grow slowly or even hair loss? I pretty much have polyps in all my sinus cavities (minus my right and left cheeks, allowing me some minimal relief). My hairdresser and I have noticed that over the course of a year, the top of my hair has grown noticeably slower than the back. It isn't necessarily thinning, just slower and not as much as the back. I was wondering if this was due to having polyps in this area, as I do, and if anyone else found this happening. Thanks for all the support and I hope we all find relief someday! Mal > > > > Re: Hard Green Mucus > > " My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am > growing back so quickly " > > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by > bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds. > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone! > > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You > seem to be very > knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? > > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit > to see Dr. > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to > my last > surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor > changes in my > frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I > look just like > from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes, > polyps galore. > > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed > (surprise, > surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose > but did not > expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6 > months later > appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. > > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing > my patient > history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery > since the May > 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not > know why I am > growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help > and > therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. > > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my > case with > him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step, > however in order to > be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. > > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be > pointless to fly up > to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery, > I also > reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me > they can't > help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford > Hospital at > Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple > opinion won't hurt. I > don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm > still feeling > somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out > and under > some control. > > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts, > especially > regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics > since January and > my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I > absolutely HATE. > (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes > me not to > sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While > using it for the > past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as > the 's. I > will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper) > since I need > something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. > > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive > thoughts and > good breathing! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 It's refreshing to see that your Doctors are not just focusing on the effects (polyps), but are actually investigating to determine a cause. I hope that they are able to find a good solution. Thanks for including the medication details. Re: Hard Green Mucus > > " My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am > growing back so quickly " > > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by > bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds. > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone! > > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You > seem to be very > knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? > > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit > to see Dr. > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to > my last > surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor > changes in my > frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I > look just like > from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes, > polyps galore. > > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed > (surprise, > surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose > but did not > expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6 > months later > appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. > > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing > my patient > history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery > since the May > 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not > know why I am > growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help > and > therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. > > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my > case with > him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step, > however in order to > be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. > > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be > pointless to fly up > to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery, > I also > reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me > they can't > help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford > Hospital at > Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple > opinion won't hurt. I > don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm > still feeling > somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out > and under > some control. > > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts, > especially > regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics > since January and > my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I > absolutely HATE. > (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes > me not to > sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While > using it for the > past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as > the 's. I > will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper) > since I need > something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. > > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive > thoughts and > good breathing! > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I believe all of my sinuses were infected, however, I also had had many previous polyp surgeries so all of my sinus cavities had been surgically opened up making it easier for nasal sprays to reach them. But I would think that if you are super infected and greatly blocked, the nasal sprays may not reach all areas of your sinuses. The way I see it, it's worth a try to get some relief. Jane From: malsyopal <MalsYoPalhotmail (DOT) com>Subject: Re: Hard Green Mucussamters@groups .comDate: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 12:48 AM Hello All!Just wanted to keep you updated my endless sinus journey as it has been sometime...After visiting with Dr. Hwang at Stanford Univ. back in February, like my local ENT, he suggested a third surgery however believed that would only be a temporary fix seeing I have needed one every year for the past three years. He pressed that he wanted to find what the underlying cause of my conditions were before surgery. He then took some cultures of mucus and it was found I had a nice case of a bacterial infection called pseudomonas. Promptly I was given a prescription for Cirpofloaxcin, a commonly used antibiotic for pseudomonas, but was cautioned to watch out for any muscle pains, aches, and spasms. When my back started hurting two days after taking it, I alerted the nurse at Stanford and she then informed me there were only three other type of antibiotics that I could take to fight the infection. Most recently finding I am allergic to penicillin, two of the three antibiotics were automatically ruled out which left me to with Tobramycin, which could only be given to me intravenously, leading me to get a nice PICC line in the beginning of April. Soon after receiving Tobramycin, I noticed I was feeling a lot better: my mucus no longer was hard, green, but more clear and yellow, my asthma cleared, congestion gone. The PICC line was removed 6 weeks later (mid-May). I followed up with a visit with my local ENT and reiterated to him how I didn't want to repeat the past 2-3 years and what were the next steps we should take. While he still suggested a surgery to clean me up, he asked me if I felt alright to come back to see him in 6-8 weeks to see if my good health lasted, if the pseudomonas would return, or if any other problems would arise. About 3 weeks ago, congestion started building back up in my chest and nose, and the green little monsters were back in full force. After seeing my local ENT today, he took some cultures from my nose and ordered a full biopsy and test to see if the bacteria was indeed back. I then asked him what should be our course of plan and he suggested surgery but said he felt more comfortable to have Dr. Hwang perform it in hopes of testing and finding any other underlying problems that he may not be familiar with. He also said he could place me on antibiotics, prednisone, etc., but he knew that would only be temporary and I objected to the prednisone, as usual, due to the terrible insomnia they cause.So here I am, over 6 months later, and almost a year from my last surgery, almost at the same point. While it was great to find out that pseudomonas was a major culprit of my problems, I'm worried it is not the complete evil. Also, Dr. Hwang is hesitant to say I am completely Samter's at this point although it hasn't been fully ruled out. He even told me that he'd never seen any type of mucus consistency like mine and was amazed I was breathing. So, only time will tell at this point. Also, was wondering, does anyone know if having polyps for long term can hair to grow slowly or even hair loss? I pretty much have polyps in all my sinus cavities (minus my right and left cheeks, allowing me some minimal relief). My hairdresser and I have noticed that over the course of a year, the top of my hair has grown noticeably slower than the back. It isn't necessarily thinning, just slower and not as much as the back. I was wondering if this was due to having polyps in this area, as I do, and if anyone else found this happening.Thanks for all the support and I hope we all find relief someday!Mal>> > > Re: Hard Green Mucus> > "My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am> growing back so quickly"> > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by> bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds.> > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone!> > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You> seem to be very> knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer?> > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit> to see Dr. > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to> my last> surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor> changes in my> frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I> look just like> from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes,> polyps galore.> > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed> (surprise,> surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose> but did not> expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6> months later> appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too.> > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing> my patient> history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery> since the May> 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not> know why I am> growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help> and> therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang.> > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my> case with> him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step,> however in order to> be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery.> > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be> pointless to fly up> to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery,> I also> reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me> they can't> help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford> Hospital at> Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple> opinion won't hurt. I> don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm> still feeling> somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out> and under> some control.> > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts,> especially> regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics> since January and> my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I> absolutely HATE.> (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes> me not to> sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While> using it for the> past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as> the 's. I> will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper)> since I need> something to help break down this nasty hard mucus.> > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive> thoughts and> good breathing!> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I don’t put a lot of faith in sinus cultures. Even my ENT admitted they were shaky at best. The main reason why I don’t is because two years in a row, at exactly the same time of year, I went to my ENT with what I thought was an infection. He did a culture, first year it was H. Flu, second year it was pseudomonas. Both times I was on several different antibiotics and both times the “infection” lasted about 6 weeks. It occured to me it might be allergies instead, since it happened at the same time of the year. Well, I then moved to CT and figured that if it was allergies it would kick in about 4-6 weeks earlier and sure enough, I got the icky green goo about a month earlier in CT than I did in NC. I did not bother seeing a doctor and it went away on its own. I wish I could remember which antibiotic he ended up giving me for the pseudomonas. It was in a powder form and you added water and drank it. He just gave me enough samples for 10 days so I never bought any. I’m allergic to Avelox so Cipro wasn’t an option. It might have been one of those ones you couldn’t take due to your penicillin allergy. Anyway, have you been allergy tested? Could some of your issues be allergies? What meds do you take regularly? Do you irrigate? Good luck! K. From: samters [mailto:samters ] On Behalf Of malsyopal Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 2:49 AM samters Subject: Re: Hard Green Mucus Hello All! Just wanted to keep you updated my endless sinus journey as it has been sometime... After visiting with Dr. Hwang at Stanford Univ. back in February, like my local ENT, he suggested a third surgery however believed that would only be a temporary fix seeing I have needed one every year for the past three years. He pressed that he wanted to find what the underlying cause of my conditions were before surgery. He then took some cultures of mucus and it was found I had a nice case of a bacterial infection called pseudomonas. Promptly I was given a prescription for Cirpofloaxcin, a commonly used antibiotic for pseudomonas, but was cautioned to watch out for any muscle pains, aches, and spasms. When my back started hurting two days after taking it, I alerted the nurse at Stanford and she then informed me there were only three other type of antibiotics that I could take to fight the infection. Most recently finding I am allergic to penicillin, two of the three antibiotics were automatically ruled out which left me to with Tobramycin, which could only be given to me intravenously, leading me to get a nice PICC line in the beginning of April. Soon after receiving Tobramycin, I noticed I was feeling a lot better: my mucus no longer was hard, green, but more clear and yellow, my asthma cleared, congestion gone. The PICC line was removed 6 weeks later (mid-May). I followed up with a visit with my local ENT and reiterated to him how I didn't want to repeat the past 2-3 years and what were the next steps we should take. While he still suggested a surgery to clean me up, he asked me if I felt alright to come back to see him in 6-8 weeks to see if my good health lasted, if the pseudomonas would return, or if any other problems would arise. About 3 weeks ago, congestion started building back up in my chest and nose, and the green little monsters were back in full force. After seeing my local ENT today, he took some cultures from my nose and ordered a full biopsy and test to see if the bacteria was indeed back. I then asked him what should be our course of plan and he suggested surgery but said he felt more comfortable to have Dr. Hwang perform it in hopes of testing and finding any other underlying problems that he may not be familiar with. He also said he could place me on antibiotics, prednisone, etc., but he knew that would only be temporary and I objected to the prednisone, as usual, due to the terrible insomnia they cause. So here I am, over 6 months later, and almost a year from my last surgery, almost at the same point. While it was great to find out that pseudomonas was a major culprit of my problems, I'm worried it is not the complete evil. Also, Dr. Hwang is hesitant to say I am completely Samter's at this point although it hasn't been fully ruled out. He even told me that he'd never seen any type of mucus consistency like mine and was amazed I was breathing. So, only time will tell at this point. Also, was wondering, does anyone know if having polyps for long term can hair to grow slowly or even hair loss? I pretty much have polyps in all my sinus cavities (minus my right and left cheeks, allowing me some minimal relief). My hairdresser and I have noticed that over the course of a year, the top of my hair has grown noticeably slower than the back. It isn't necessarily thinning, just slower and not as much as the back. I was wondering if this was due to having polyps in this area, as I do, and if anyone else found this happening. Thanks for all the support and I hope we all find relief someday! Mal > > > > Re: Hard Green Mucus > > " My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am > growing back so quickly " > > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by > bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds. > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone! > > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You > seem to be very > knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? > > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit > to see Dr. > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to > my last > surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor > changes in my > frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I > look just like > from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes, > polyps galore. > > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed > (surprise, > surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose > but did not > expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6 > months later > appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. > > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing > my patient > history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery > since the May > 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not > know why I am > growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help > and > therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. > > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my > case with > him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step, > however in order to > be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. > > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be > pointless to fly up > to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery, > I also > reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me > they can't > help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford > Hospital at > Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple > opinion won't hurt. I > don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm > still feeling > somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out > and under > some control. > > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts, > especially > regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics > since January and > my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I > absolutely HATE. > (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes > me not to > sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While > using it for the > past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as > the 's. I > will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper) > since I need > something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. > > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive > thoughts and > good breathing! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hi , I've never heard sinus cultures could be " shaky at best " . And while I can somewhat understand why you felt this way due to your infection occurring the same time each year, I which I could say my situation has been just a seasonal allergy thing! I was allergy tested three years ago when all of my symptoms started, stemming from a pneumonia episode during summer. Wondering why I couldn't find complete relief after treatment, my allergy test indicated I was allergic to 56 plants (I can't even keep track!), peanuts, soy, corn, cantaloupe, dogs, cats, rabbits (weird) and a few other things I can't remember. So when I started this journey three years ago it was always assumed it was due to me being allergic to everything under the sun. I've had two surgeries within the past three years, Dec 2007, August 2008, and now another coming soon in August of this year (3 surgeries in 3 years, I'm amazed). After my Aug 2008 surgery through January of this year I have been on various bouts of different types of antibiotics, Augmentin, Augmentin XR, Clindamycin, to help relieve me of my persistent symptoms reemerging (all of them did nothing). Medications on the regular for the past two years have included: Nasonex or Nasacort Mucinex (nasal spray) Allegra D or Zyrtec (depends whats blooming) Singulair Advair 250 or 500 (depends on severity of asthma) Albuterol when needed NeilMed Sinus Rinse used 3Xs (or more) a day. (A MUST otherwise the crap just builds up) (Note: I have only been using since February when Dr. Hwang introduced to me and told me to stop using Solution to irrigate.) So in all, my symptoms are definitely allergy related but not necessarily the complete cause of my symptoms. This is easily figured out because symptoms have been year-round during seasons when there's nothing blooming (I live in Las Vegas, NV i.e. the desert, and nothing grows in the winter). Summer seems to be the worse: with intense 100+ degree summers, day and night, my already inflamed polyps thrive off the heat causing intense migraines, pressure, and pain. So (taking a breath!) in all, I don't know what's going on, even worse, neither does my doctor. We just all know for someone even with my type of allergies it is abnormal that they have not been controlled and its gone on too long. Even Dr. Hwang agrees this is beyond allergy related due to the consistency of my mucus (almost sap-like if its wet, otherwise hard, and always green). And it scares the crap out of me that he said he'd never seen mucus like it before and he's supposed to be the sinus messiah! (Maybe I'm giving him too much credit! LOL!) We all hoped the pseudomonas was the culprit. I'm still waiting on the culture to see if it's still lurking. If it is, I'll be a bit relieved, but on another hand still wondering if its something else. Thanks everyone for the kind thoughts, support, and empathy, which the latter is hardest to find. Most just don't get " it " but it's nice to meet those who live " it " and understand. Still breathing (more like sniffling)... Mal > > > > > > > > Re: Hard Green Mucus > > > > " My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am > > growing back so quickly " > > > > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by > > bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone! > > > > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You > > seem to be very > > knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? > > > > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit > > to see Dr. > > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to > > my last > > surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor > > changes in my > > frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I > > look just like > > from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes, > > polyps galore. > > > > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly > alarmed > > (surprise, > > surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose > > but did not > > expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6 > > months later > > appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. > > > > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without > knowing > > my patient > > history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had > surgery > > since the May > > 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not > > know why I am > > growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to > help > > and > > therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. > > > > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my > > case with > > him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step, > > however in order to > > be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. > > > > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be > > pointless to fly up > > to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER > surgery, > > I also > > reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told > me > > they can't > > help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford > > Hospital at > > Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple > > opinion won't hurt. I > > don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while > I'm > > still feeling > > somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this > out > > and under > > some control. > > > > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts, > > especially > > regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics > > since January and > > my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I > > absolutely HATE. > > (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes > > me not to > > sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While > > using it for the > > past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good > as > > the 's. I > > will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper) > > since I need > > something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. > > > > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive > > thoughts and > > good breathing! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Maybe the cultures your doc did were different than mine. I had many other cultures and those were the only 2 that ever even gave a result, most came back “inconclusive” but I was put on some antibiotic or another anyway. I’m half convinced those things live in our noses anyway and the doc just happened to grab one with that tiny little thing he put up there. The antibiotics never seemed to help and once I had the joy of getting colitis so I had to go on yet another antibiotic to fix the effects from the first antibiotic! I do totally sympathize with your situation. I had 2 surgeries 8 months apart in 2005. I had known for 5 years I was allergic to everything under the sun and considering my dad has the same allergies and polyps, it was no real surprise I had them too. I am just lucky enough to add the asthma and aspirin allergy into the mix, which my dad does not share. My docs really didn’t know what the cause was and didn’t really think it was the Samter’s though they thought it played a role. It didn’t help that through all this I lived in NC where grass pollinates 10 out of 12 months and happens to be my worst allergen. I must say CT has been better, I actually had more than 6 weeks this winter where I felt halfway normal but it hasn’t lasted! Anyway, the second surgery the doc opened everything up (removed part of the turbinates) to help with the irrigation and to get the sprays up there better (I seem to recall they did this to you too??). The biggest things that have helped me since then are using a Waterpik instead of a bottle to do my irrigation and to use the Flonase 2 sprays twice a day. I also take Allegra (but not D because those make me sick), Singulair, and Asmanex (can’t take Advair anymore either – I have sinus tachycardia and those meds can screw with that). At times I get nasty green snot out though I don’t think I would describe it as hard but I certainly have to poke at it to get it to go down the drain! And last week at the ENT’s the semi-solid gunk kept clogging his little vacuum thing he was using to get it out. That was fun! So please don’t think I don’t sympathize!! I just had bad luck with those cultures and it is frustrating to not know what is wrong with you and to question what the docs say. I hope you do find what is wrong or at least find something that keeps the symptoms under control. I know I will need another surgery at some point as the nasty little polyps are growing back but in the meantime I am going to fight to keep them from growing too fast! Good luck! This group is invaluable because y’all do get how miserable this disease is. And where else can I talk about snot and not offend people or gross them out completely!?! K. From: samters [mailto:samters ] On Behalf Of malsyopal Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:45 PM samters Subject: Re: Hard Green Mucus Hi , I've never heard sinus cultures could be " shaky at best " . And while I can somewhat understand why you felt this way due to your infection occurring the same time each year, I which I could say my situation has been just a seasonal allergy thing! I was allergy tested three years ago when all of my symptoms started, stemming from a pneumonia episode during summer. Wondering why I couldn't find complete relief after treatment, my allergy test indicated I was allergic to 56 plants (I can't even keep track!), peanuts, soy, corn, cantaloupe, dogs, cats, rabbits (weird) and a few other things I can't remember. So when I started this journey three years ago it was always assumed it was due to me being allergic to everything under the sun. I've had two surgeries within the past three years, Dec 2007, August 2008, and now another coming soon in August of this year (3 surgeries in 3 years, I'm amazed). After my Aug 2008 surgery through January of this year I have been on various bouts of different types of antibiotics, Augmentin, Augmentin XR, Clindamycin, to help relieve me of my persistent symptoms reemerging (all of them did nothing). Medications on the regular for the past two years have included: Nasonex or Nasacort Mucinex (nasal spray) Allegra D or Zyrtec (depends whats blooming) Singulair Advair 250 or 500 (depends on severity of asthma) Albuterol when needed NeilMed Sinus Rinse used 3Xs (or more) a day. (A MUST otherwise the crap just builds up) (Note: I have only been using since February when Dr. Hwang introduced to me and told me to stop using Solution to irrigate.) So in all, my symptoms are definitely allergy related but not necessarily the complete cause of my symptoms. This is easily figured out because symptoms have been year-round during seasons when there's nothing blooming (I live in Las Vegas, NV i.e. the desert, and nothing grows in the winter). Summer seems to be the worse: with intense 100+ degree summers, day and night, my already inflamed polyps thrive off the heat causing intense migraines, pressure, and pain. So (taking a breath!) in all, I don't know what's going on, even worse, neither does my doctor. We just all know for someone even with my type of allergies it is abnormal that they have not been controlled and its gone on too long. Even Dr. Hwang agrees this is beyond allergy related due to the consistency of my mucus (almost sap-like if its wet, otherwise hard, and always green). And it scares the crap out of me that he said he'd never seen mucus like it before and he's supposed to be the sinus messiah! (Maybe I'm giving him too much credit! LOL!) We all hoped the pseudomonas was the culprit. I'm still waiting on the culture to see if it's still lurking. If it is, I'll be a bit relieved, but on another hand still wondering if its something else. Thanks everyone for the kind thoughts, support, and empathy, which the latter is hardest to find. Most just don't get " it " but it's nice to meet those who live " it " and understand. Still breathing (more like sniffling)... Mal > > I don't put a lot of faith in sinus cultures. Even my ENT admitted they > were shaky at best. The main reason why I don't is because two years in a > row, at exactly the same time of year, I went to my ENT with what I thought > was an infection. He did a culture, first year it was H. Flu, second year > it was pseudomonas. Both times I was on several different antibiotics and > both times the " infection " lasted about 6 weeks. It occured to me it might > be allergies instead, since it happened at the same time of the year. Well, > I then moved to CT and figured that if it was allergies it would kick in > about 4-6 weeks earlier and sure enough, I got the icky green goo about a > month earlier in CT than I did in NC. I did not bother seeing a doctor and > it went away on its own. > > > > I wish I could remember which antibiotic he ended up giving me for the > pseudomonas. It was in a powder form and you added water and drank it. He > just gave me enough samples for 10 days so I never bought any. I'm allergic > to Avelox so Cipro wasn't an option. It might have been one of those ones > you couldn't take due to your penicillin allergy. Anyway, have you been > allergy tested? Could some of your issues be allergies? What meds do you > take regularly? Do you irrigate? > > > > Good luck! > > > > K. > > > > From: samters [mailto:samters ] On Behalf Of > malsyopal > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 2:49 AM > samters > Subject: Re: Hard Green Mucus > > > > > > Hello All! > > Just wanted to keep you updated my endless sinus journey as it has been > sometime... > > After visiting with Dr. Hwang at Stanford Univ. back in February, like > my local ENT, he suggested a third surgery however believed that would only > be a temporary fix seeing I have needed one every year for the past three > years. He pressed that he wanted to find what the underlying cause of my > conditions were before surgery. > > He then took some cultures of mucus and it was found I had a nice case of a > bacterial infection called pseudomonas. Promptly I was given a prescription > for Cirpofloaxcin, a commonly used antibiotic for pseudomonas, but was > cautioned to watch out for any muscle pains, aches, and spasms. When my back > started hurting two days after taking it, I alerted the nurse at Stanford > and she then informed me there were only three other type of antibiotics > that I could take to fight the infection. Most recently finding I am > allergic to penicillin, two of the three antibiotics were automatically > ruled out which left me to with Tobramycin, which could only be given to me > intravenously, leading me to get a nice PICC line in the beginning of April. > > > Soon after receiving Tobramycin, I noticed I was feeling a lot better: my > mucus no longer was hard, green, but more clear and yellow, my asthma > cleared, congestion gone. The PICC line was removed 6 weeks later (mid-May). > I followed up with a visit with my local ENT and reiterated to him how I > didn't want to repeat the past 2-3 years and what were the next steps we > should take. While he still suggested a surgery to clean me up, he asked me > if I felt alright to come back to see him in 6-8 weeks to see if my good > health lasted, if the pseudomonas would return, or if any other problems > would arise. About 3 weeks ago, congestion started building back up in my > chest and nose, and the green little monsters were back in full force. After > seeing my local ENT today, he took some cultures from my nose and ordered a > full biopsy and test to see if the bacteria was indeed back. I then asked > him what should be our course of plan and he suggested surgery but said he > felt more comfortable to have Dr. Hwang perform it in hopes of testing and > finding any other underlying problems that he may not be familiar with. He > also said he could place me on antibiotics, prednisone, etc., but he knew > that would only be temporary and I objected to the prednisone, as usual, due > to the terrible insomnia they cause. > > So here I am, over 6 months later, and almost a year from my last surgery, > almost at the same point. While it was great to find out that pseudomonas > was a major culprit of my problems, I'm worried it is not the complete evil. > Also, Dr. Hwang is hesitant to say I am completely Samter's at this point > although it hasn't been fully ruled out. He even told me that he'd never > seen any type of mucus consistency like mine and was amazed I was breathing. > > > So, only time will tell at this point. > > Also, was wondering, does anyone know if having polyps for long term can > hair to grow slowly or even hair loss? I pretty much have polyps in all my > sinus cavities (minus my right and left cheeks, allowing me some minimal > relief). My hairdresser and I have noticed that over the course of a year, > the top of my hair has grown noticeably slower than the back. It isn't > necessarily thinning, just slower and not as much as the back. I was > wondering if this was due to having polyps in this area, as I do, and if > anyone else found this happening. > > Thanks for all the support and I hope we all find relief someday! > > Mal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 > > > > > > > > Re: Hard Green Mucus > > > > " My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am > > growing back so quickly " > > > > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused by > > bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone! > > > > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially asfyso! You > > seem to be very > > knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? > > > > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to my visit > > to see Dr. > > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months prior to > > my last > > surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some minor > > changes in my > > frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but essentially I > > look just like > > from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the eyes, > > polyps galore. > > > > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was incredibly alarmed > > (surprise, > > surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in my nose > > but did not > > expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, and 6 > > months later > > appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. > > > > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently without knowing > > my patient > > history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I had surgery > > since the May > > 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he does not > > know why I am > > growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or how to help > > and > > therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. > > > > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already discussed my > > case with > > him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next step, > > however in order to > > be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. > > > > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it would be > > pointless to fly up > > to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need ANOTHER surgery, > > I also > > reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) have told me > > they can't > > help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at Stanford > > Hospital at > > Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a simple > > opinion won't hurt. I > > don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I while I'm > > still feeling > > somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try figuring this out > > and under > > some control. > > > > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your thoughts, > > especially > > regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral antibiotics > > since January and > > my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I > > absolutely HATE. > > (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; prednisone causes > > me not to > > sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's solution. While > > using it for the > > past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief as good as > > the 's. I > > will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully cheaper) > > since I need > > something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. > > > > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me positive > > thoughts and > > good breathing! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 : First off, I appreciate your sympathy and empathy and did never think otherwise beforehand! And without knowing the full spectrum of your conditions, I didn't realize you and I have a lot of similarities when it comes to our symptoms as well as the things we've both been through. My dad also has terrible allergies and sinuses, minus the asthma that you and I share. I'm happy to hear you've found some sort of relief since moving to CT but unfortunately will have to get another surgery sooner or later. And believe me: I totally understand the frustration of not knowing what is wrong with you and having your docs not knowing either. It's beyond frustration for me at this point: a mixture of sadness, aloofness, anger, and kinda funny at the same time. And your definitely right about this group being the greatest: the fact that we can openly describe our snot and have other's understand without being disgusted is wonderful! LOL! > > > > I don't put a lot of faith in sinus cultures. Even my ENT admitted they > > were shaky at best. The main reason why I don't is because two years in a > > row, at exactly the same time of year, I went to my ENT with what I > thought > > was an infection. He did a culture, first year it was H. Flu, second year > > it was pseudomonas. Both times I was on several different antibiotics and > > both times the " infection " lasted about 6 weeks. It occured to me it might > > be allergies instead, since it happened at the same time of the year. > Well, > > I then moved to CT and figured that if it was allergies it would kick in > > about 4-6 weeks earlier and sure enough, I got the icky green goo about a > > month earlier in CT than I did in NC. I did not bother seeing a doctor and > > it went away on its own. > > > > > > > > I wish I could remember which antibiotic he ended up giving me for the > > pseudomonas. It was in a powder form and you added water and drank it. He > > just gave me enough samples for 10 days so I never bought any. I'm > allergic > > to Avelox so Cipro wasn't an option. It might have been one of those ones > > you couldn't take due to your penicillin allergy. Anyway, have you been > > allergy tested? Could some of your issues be allergies? What meds do you > > take regularly? Do you irrigate? > > > > > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > K. > > > > > > > > From: samters <mailto:samters%40> > [mailto:samters <mailto:samters%40> ] On > Behalf Of > > malsyopal > > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 2:49 AM > > samters <mailto:samters%40> > > Subject: Re: Hard Green Mucus > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello All! > > > > Just wanted to keep you updated my endless sinus journey as it has been > > sometime... > > > > After visiting with Dr. Hwang at Stanford Univ. back in February, > like > > my local ENT, he suggested a third surgery however believed that would > only > > be a temporary fix seeing I have needed one every year for the past three > > years. He pressed that he wanted to find what the underlying cause of my > > conditions were before surgery. > > > > He then took some cultures of mucus and it was found I had a nice case of > a > > bacterial infection called pseudomonas. Promptly I was given a > prescription > > for Cirpofloaxcin, a commonly used antibiotic for pseudomonas, but was > > cautioned to watch out for any muscle pains, aches, and spasms. When my > back > > started hurting two days after taking it, I alerted the nurse at Stanford > > and she then informed me there were only three other type of antibiotics > > that I could take to fight the infection. Most recently finding I am > > allergic to penicillin, two of the three antibiotics were automatically > > ruled out which left me to with Tobramycin, which could only be given to > me > > intravenously, leading me to get a nice PICC line in the beginning of > April. > > > > > > Soon after receiving Tobramycin, I noticed I was feeling a lot better: my > > mucus no longer was hard, green, but more clear and yellow, my asthma > > cleared, congestion gone. The PICC line was removed 6 weeks later > (mid-May). > > I followed up with a visit with my local ENT and reiterated to him how I > > didn't want to repeat the past 2-3 years and what were the next steps we > > should take. While he still suggested a surgery to clean me up, he asked > me > > if I felt alright to come back to see him in 6-8 weeks to see if my good > > health lasted, if the pseudomonas would return, or if any other problems > > would arise. About 3 weeks ago, congestion started building back up in my > > chest and nose, and the green little monsters were back in full force. > After > > seeing my local ENT today, he took some cultures from my nose and ordered > a > > full biopsy and test to see if the bacteria was indeed back. I then asked > > him what should be our course of plan and he suggested surgery but said he > > felt more comfortable to have Dr. Hwang perform it in hopes of testing and > > finding any other underlying problems that he may not be familiar with. He > > also said he could place me on antibiotics, prednisone, etc., but he knew > > that would only be temporary and I objected to the prednisone, as usual, > due > > to the terrible insomnia they cause. > > > > So here I am, over 6 months later, and almost a year from my last surgery, > > almost at the same point. While it was great to find out that pseudomonas > > was a major culprit of my problems, I'm worried it is not the complete > evil. > > Also, Dr. Hwang is hesitant to say I am completely Samter's at this point > > although it hasn't been fully ruled out. He even told me that he'd never > > seen any type of mucus consistency like mine and was amazed I was > breathing. > > > > > > So, only time will tell at this point. > > > > Also, was wondering, does anyone know if having polyps for long term can > > hair to grow slowly or even hair loss? I pretty much have polyps in all my > > sinus cavities (minus my right and left cheeks, allowing me some minimal > > relief). My hairdresser and I have noticed that over the course of a year, > > the top of my hair has grown noticeably slower than the back. It isn't > > necessarily thinning, just slower and not as much as the back. I was > > wondering if this was due to having polyps in this area, as I do, and if > > anyone else found this happening. > > > > Thanks for all the support and I hope we all find relief someday! > > > > Mal > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Thanks for being impressed with my allergies! ;-) I have always wondered about biofilms and while the site you listed didn't pertain to them in regards to the sinuses it did put into perspective what they are and how they could be a contributor. I am surely going to ask my ENT as well as Dr. Hwang about this and if there are any leading treatments, remedies, etc that can fight against this. I'm also interested to hear what your idea is! Mal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Hard Green Mucus > > > > > > > > " My ENT reiterated to me that he does not know why I am > > > > growing back so quickly " > > > > > > > > Based on my experience and research the rapid regrowth is caused > by > > > > bacterial biofilm infecting the unhealed surgical wounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone! > > > > > > > > Thank you all for your support and for responding, especially > asfyso! You > > > > seem to be very > > > > knowledgeable about the sinuses. Are you too a Samter's sufferer? > > > > > > > > Also, just as an update, I was required to get a CT scan prior to > my visit > > > > to see Dr. > > > > Hwang at Stanford. I also have a CT scan from May 2008, 4 months > prior to > > > > my last > > > > surgery in August. When I place the two side by side, I see some > minor > > > > changes in my > > > > frontal sinuses and my cheeks have opened up a bit more, but > essentially I > > > > look just like > > > > from last May: full. of. polyps. My frontals, cheeks, behind the > eyes, > > > > polyps galore. > > > > > > > > I pointed this out to my ENT here in Las Vegas and he was > incredibly > > > alarmed > > > > (surprise, > > > > surprise). He expected I had polyp regrowth and could see some in > my nose > > > > but did not > > > > expect such rapid regrowth. With having a surgery back in August, > and 6 > > > > months later > > > > appearing exactly the same as I was presurgery, I was alarmed too. > > > > > > > > The report from the diagnostics (which is done independently > without > > > knowing > > > > my patient > > > > history other than my May 2008 scan) said while it is evident I > had > > > surgery > > > > since the May > > > > 2008 scan, I need surgery again. My ENT reiterated to me that he > does not > > > > know why I am > > > > growing back so quickly and that he does not know what to do or > how to > > > help > > > > and > > > > therefore encourages me to see Dr. Hwang. > > > > > > > > My appointment with Dr. Hwang is on 02/25. My ENT has already > discussed my > > > > case with > > > > him and they both agree aspirin desentization would be the next > step, > > > > however in order to > > > > be a candidate, I need to be cleaned out, i.e. another surgery. > > > > > > > > I am SO over surgeries every 6 to 9 months. After thinking it > would be > > > > pointless to fly up > > > > to San Francisco just to hear some other guy tell me I need > ANOTHER > > > surgery, > > > > I also > > > > reminded myself that my ENT (and many others within this city) > have told > > > me > > > > they can't > > > > help. Also, Dr. Hwang IS a director of the sinus department at > Stanford > > > > Hospital at > > > > Stanford University (plus, I LOVE San Fran! LOL!) so getting a > simple > > > > opinion won't hurt. I > > > > don't have to get surgery tomorrow, next week, or next month but I > while > > > I'm > > > > still feeling > > > > somewhat good and positive, this is the time for me to try > figuring this > > > out > > > > and under > > > > some control. > > > > > > > > Asfyso, I am going to bring up to both my ENT and Dr. Hwang your > thoughts, > > > > especially > > > > regarding the 's Solution. I have been taken off oral > antibiotics > > > > since January and > > > > my ENT refuses to prescribe me more as well as prednisone, which I > > > > absolutely HATE. > > > > (With my breathing issues I already have sleep problems; > prednisone causes > > > > me not to > > > > sleep for days). But I am continuing to take the wilson's > solution. While > > > > using it for the > > > > past 2 years, I have tried regular saline solution with no relief > as good > > > as > > > > the 's. I > > > > will ask my docs for a much healthier alternative (and hopefully > cheaper) > > > > since I need > > > > something to help break down this nasty hard mucus. > > > > > > > > I'll keep everyone updated on my console with Dr. Hwang. Wish me > positive > > > > thoughts and > > > > good breathing! > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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