Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

[Guest guest]

I think this is a great question, but I would suggest that it really should

be addressed to " low-salicylate diet converts " .

--

Ken West

Check the library . . .

samters/links

> From: " Belbin " <stoneywood@...>

> Aspirin is a salicylate.

> Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with gradually

> increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug

> without reaction.

> Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of food

> which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction and

> with the suggestion that they should be avoided.

> Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise the

> consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?

> In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open to

> accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic

> reaction?

>

[Guest guest]

> I think this is a great question, but I would suggest that it

really should

> be addressed to " low-salicylate diet converts " .

> --

> Ken West

> Check the library . . .

> samters/links

>

I think I've made a break through Ken.

Just think of it... " The Belbin Desensitisation method " ... Drink as

much beer as you like....It could net me my second Million!

Regards .

> >

[Guest guest]

Its my humble opinion that a diet rich in Salicylates will not desensitise to aspirin or NSAIDS.

Desensitising to asprin could desensitise to other forms of salicylates but dont know-Why do

polyps grow in desensitised patients eventually?

There are many different types of salicylates

Sodium salicylate in foods

methyl salicylate or Beta hydroxy acid

and Aspirin made of acetylated salicilic acid.

The last is a man made derivative drug of benzoic acid.

It is worth becoming accustomed to all the synonyms of these different salicylates and become accustomed to them,like Analget or Flucarmit IS methyl salicylate or O-hydroxybenzoic acid,Octisalate,rowasa,Mesalazine ,o-carboxyphenol IS Salicilic acid.They are all listed on the Guai support site I beleive in our group library.Beleive me they are not so easy to avoid in drugs,toiletries etc

To test whether one would react the same to salicylates in foods is either through elimination

diet which is hard because there could be a built up,or doing the cast 2000 test which is

so far the most appropriate test for a Sodium salicylate reaction-I mean appropriately because were talking

of leukotrine release and not an Ige mediated reaction,and that tests deals with Leukotrine

release.(I am ready to fly overseas for this as I am on a low salicylate diet and is not easy and

might or not be relevant with long regrowth of polyps).

I do however appear to react to peppermint/menthol which is acetylated form of methyl salicylate.Whether it is because the salicylate is actually is methyl form or acetylated

is another issue,but I would definetely stear clear methylated salicylates until proven wrong.

Great subject but shame I have to live with it on daily basis

Belbin <stoneywood@...> wrote:

Aspirin is a salicylate.Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with gradually increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug without reaction.Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of food which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction and with the suggestion that they should be avoided.Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise the consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open to accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic reaction?__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Aspirin is a salicylate.

> Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with

gradually

> increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug

> without reaction.

> Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of food

> which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction

and

> with the suggestion that they should be avoided.

> Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise the

> consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?

> In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open to

> accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic

> reaction?

I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject of salicylates

and apologise for my " tongue-in-cheek " posts. It is

possible that I have an aversion to diets, as I enjoy my food and

drink, without restrictions. I am however, still allergic to herbs,

curry, mouthwash?? and lotions, most noticeably at night. I have

managed to avoid the accidental ingestion of aspirin for over 10

years now, so cannot judge in which direction my reaction is heading.

.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Only 4 or 5 times since my onset of Samters in 1997 have I

experienced an acute, overt reaction to a food substance. Each and

every time it was a German Weiss beer or Belgian Ale. I assume it

may have been the salicylates since I've been tested 3X for

yeast/mold allergy and was negative each time. But with eating

raspberries, fresh spinich, using mouthwash, etc. I've never known

an acute reaction.

However, I do have to wonder if due to the fact that salicylates are

cleared from the body so slowly if possibly they can accumulate over

time (a few days or so) and cause just a very minor isolated

reaction involving nasal/sinus polyps only? Just enough to swell

them up a bit to cause one to become anosmic again.

I resist going on a salicylate free diet because of the absence of

any acute noticeable reactions, but wonder if the low levels

accumulating are still enough to affect someone negatively?

Just kinda fishing here. Any thoughts???

Thanks!

Mike

> >

> >

> > Aspirin is a salicylate.

> > Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with

> gradually

> > increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug

> > without reaction.

> > Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of

food

> > which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction

> and

> > with the suggestion that they should be avoided.

> > Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise

the

> > consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?

> > In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open

to

> > accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic

> > reaction?

>

> I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject of salicylates

> and apologise for my " tongue-in-cheek " posts. It is

> possible that I have an aversion to diets, as I enjoy my food and

> drink, without restrictions. I am however, still allergic to

herbs,

> curry, mouthwash?? and lotions, most noticeably at night. I have

> managed to avoid the accidental ingestion of aspirin for over 10

> years now, so cannot judge in which direction my reaction is

heading.

>

> .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Mike,

Yes, I have a thought. My name is . I recieved an Elissa Act

test back in 97 and it tested for delayed response food

allergies. As you put it, not all reactions are sudden and noticable

immediately. Also they can have slow accumulating effects.

It determined, interestingly, that rasberries and mint and some other

known hi salicylate foods as well as gluten (of wheat and barley) were

substances I reacted to in that delayed way. It did not, on the other

hand say that I was allergic in this way to aspirin. I believe that is

because my allergy to aspirin was more acute...an immediate

response. Anyway, it took me until a month and a half ago (7 years)

to give the test results the benefit of the doubt and actually stop

eating Gluten (the hardest thing for me to give up). Tons of things

are made using wheat and barley. The results have been great! I feel

as though my system isn't working nearly as hard to digest and absorb

the nutrients from the food that I eat now, so I have much more energy

and I just had the flu (a severe one) that I got through in a 24 hour

period. Normally such a flu would result for me in a bronchial and or

sinus infection. Instead I am breathing great through my nose and

lungs, though I still can't smell, and am blowing my nose practically

not at all.

I think, like that other group member, that there are differences in

the chemical make-up of different forms of salicylates and that they

effect us in different ways. I am very pleased with the results of

this gluten-free experiment and I honestly have not felt this empowered

around my health in a long time. I am really enjoying eating Thai and

Indian food as well as more potatoes, rice, and corn (to replace breads

and other wheat based products). Restricting my diet in this way has

only opened me up to eating new and exciting foods which I otherwise

wouldn't think to enjoy. I stay away from most curries, but that is

easy enough. I already avoid all mint/menthol/wintergreen products as

well as cinnomon oil (I use strawberry toothpaste), as I figured out

when I was 12 years old that I got a bit asthmatic when I brushed with

mint toothpaste or ate mint candies. So the gluten thing is just one

more thing to eliminate from my diet, and the results seem to be

GREAT! You might want to look into getting the Elissa test done or

just avoid alcoholic drinks with sulfites at least. There are some

that are made without them. You could also consider trying no gluten

like myself if the sulfite avoidance isn't sufficient. I find that I

have to avoid both, sulfites and gluten to be in my version of optimal

health.

I am desensitized to aspirin as well and I take 4 aspirin tablets each

day which helps with my asthma most of all. So I am a believer in that

too. I haven't had an asthma attack since I got desensitized in

January of 2002 (at which point I was functioning at 60% lung capacity

for my age and hight while on IV cortizone)--I had asthma bad. The

only drug I take for asthma at this point other than the aspirin is

singulair once every night...no inhaled steroids or anything. I also

haven't needed surgery or antibiotics or prednisone sense the

desensitization. It, combined with allergy shots and dietary changes

and daily antihistamines have ended my dependance on prednisone and

given me a new lease on life. I still have polyps, but I can breath

through my nose and to me that is what matters most! When I lowered my

aspirin intake at one point my polyps got worse...that was a bad idea

for me.

from California

Mike McNeil wrote:

Only 4 or 5 times since my onset of Samters in 1997 have I

experienced an acute, overt reaction to a food substance. Each and

every time it was a German Weiss beer or Belgian Ale. I assume it

may have been the salicylates since I've been tested 3X for

yeast/mold allergy and was negative each time. But with eating

raspberries, fresh spinich, using mouthwash, etc. I've never known

an acute reaction.

However, I do have to wonder if due to the fact that salicylates are

cleared from the body so slowly if possibly they can accumulate over

time (a few days or so) and cause just a very minor isolated

reaction involving nasal/sinus polyps only? Just enough to swell

them up a bit to cause one to become anosmic again.

I resist going on a salicylate free diet because of the absence of

any acute noticeable reactions, but wonder if the low levels

accumulating are still enough to affect someone negatively?

Just kinda fishing here. Any thoughts???

Thanks!

Mike

> >

> >

> > Aspirin is a salicylate.

> > Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with

> gradually

> > increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the

drug

> > without reaction.

> > Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of

food

> > which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic

reaction

> and

> > with the suggestion that they should be avoided.

> > Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods

desensitise

the

> > consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic

drug?

> > In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves

open

to

> > accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent

asthmatic

> > reaction?

>

> I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject of salicylates

> and apologise for my "tongue-in-cheek" posts. It is

> possible that I have an aversion to diets, as I enjoy my food and

> drink, without restrictions. I am however, still allergic to

herbs,

> curry, mouthwash?? and lotions, most noticeably at night. I have

> managed to avoid the accidental ingestion of aspirin for over 10

> years now, so cannot judge in which direction my reaction is

heading.

>

> .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike, How's the Fishin'? ))

My 2 cents worth. This is a long read.

I am on a salicylate free diet or at least as much of one as I can

be. The studies & lists from Australia are wonderful if you live over

there but since a lot of the specifice foods used for the studies are

a different variety than what we have available in the US, it isn't

an easy undertaking. The Royal Prince Alfred Hospital lists, Sue

Dengate's and Sharla Rice's lists are the most accurate at this time

IMO (Feingold has improved much over the years and if you follow his

strictest list, it is along the lines of the above lists). For

instance, these lists say that thickly peeled potatoes are basically

salicylate free. Myself and others in the US/Canada who follow these

lists have a lot of problems with potatoes. In the US we have the

Russet varieties which everyone over here calls a white dirty potato.

In the studies it was the old line Sebago variety called a white

dirty potato that was used. I did find one reference to the russet

potato about 2 years ago on a list from a Canadian that had the

russet listed at .50 mg. per 1/2 cup serving which is quite a lot as

an unpeeled sebago potato has .12 mg. per 1/2 cup serving and the

unpeeled is listed as a moderate salicylate amount. Even with the

lists, there are accidental ingestions and you have to be very

diligent.

As to build up...YES!! Most definitely. You see not being a true IgE

rsesponse for most of us (there are a few who do have an IgE response

to aspirin) the nature of the beast is a slow build up until the body

cannot tolerate anymore. I do think that when you are consuming the

foods that are moderately low to very high in sals, that you will

have the annoying swelling of the polyps, drainage, etc...possibly

for some, asthma. In my case, I have all the above even on a daily

regime of 20 mg. prednisone. I do know that when I wasn't on this

particlar list of foods, I was 10 x's worse than I am now. I have

been on some type of low salicylate diet throughout this disease but

they seemed to help for a while, then kaput. Now I know why, the

lists weren't accurate and I thought I wasn't ingesting salicylates

when in reality I was. As to being a cure all...definitely not. It is

just another tool to help us deal and survive this disease. When a

person is so bad that their quality of life is non-exsistent, most

will try just about anything. For those who are desensed, it isn't a

cure all either. If it was, they wouldn't be having to take the

medicines they do to keep it all under control along with the aspirin

but perhaps the aspirin is a better alternative solution for them

than cortisone. I am still not sure about desense for myself. I think

desense is a lot like homeopathy...like to like gets rid of the

sumptoms. In homeopathy, you take a diluted amount of what is

bothering you and it stops the symptoms but it usually doesn't cure

it.

If you could get a hold of the book Fed Up by Sue Dengate, a lot of

libraries have it, there is a lot of information about salicylates

and other chemicals. Her website also gives a lot of information.

Also, Sharla Race has an e book or CD that you can purchase with the

lists and her experiences with salicylates. Well worth the money in

my opinion. (I purchased the e book for 10.00 but I believe that is

no longer an option and that she has most of her information on a CD

now)

I also posted a year or so ago about one of the drawbacks to the low

salicylate diet is that you become even more sensitive to salicylates

and that even one little mistake will mess you up with symptoms

returning. Over time, the sensitivity is suppose to decrease where

you can slowly reintroduce the salicylate foods and build up a

tolerance. In Samterites, I am not sure that this will ever be

possible. We have a lot of the same mechanisms at work that the

austic, ADHD and IBS, Crohns, etc...people do but there are

differences too. It is interesting to note that most of these

diseases have a prostaglandin connection. So far, I have been on the

Fed Up diet for over 3 years and haven't been able to increase my

tolerance. In fact, if I ingest just a small amount of any given food

that is low to moderate, my nasal polyps swell within hours, I start

the post nasal drip and asthma sets in...and I get a hacking cough.

This diet just gives me more days where the symptoms aren't as bsd

and not living in the hospital all the time and building new ones

with the amount of money they get when I am in there. >LOL<

The low accumulative levels of sals on the diet can cause problems,

at least they do in case. I try to counter that by having a water

fast only day, once a week. It appears to be helping but there is

even another wrench to throw in the equation. Most who have problems

with sals have problems with the other zillion natural/man made

chemicals. Like amines, msg, colorings, preservatives to name a few.

I have found that just following a low salicylate diet wasn't enough.

I had to remove most of the other man made/synthetic chemicals too.

It is very hard to follow the Fed Up diet in the US. We have so many

genetically altered foods, chemicals added to them, flavor enhancers,

preservatives, etc...which all have a relationship to salicylates.

Then on top of that organic foods have a higher salicylate/natural

chemical content due to the making of salicylates that the plant

makes to protect itself from predators. Plants grown with pesticides

are lower, so you have a catch 22 in effect. I usually pick the non-

genetically altered plant that has been sprayed, then I thickly peel

the skin or take off the outer leaves and use a spray/wash that helps

remove the rest.

I also follow the Zone principals of eating because you can control a

lot of the eicosanoid production cascade with it. I can tell you that

it isn't easy to do all of this but I have cut my prednisone down

from bursts and am on 20 mg. daily instead of 40 mg. daily like I was

pre Fed Up (Failsafe) and the Zone eating principals.

If anyone decides to try the low sal/chemical diet...my advice is to

join one of the support groups because they have a wealth of

knowledge on what is acceptable.

I belong to:

Failsafe (Fed Up) - the original group

Failsafe Basic

Failsafe USA

I am including direct links to a couple of the lists and group lists

that I referenced to for those who are interested.

Sue Dengate's website addy where you can find links to many resources

and links to join her group lists. You can also e mail her and tell

her what you are trying to accomplish and she will suggest which

lists would be the most helpful for you.

http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/

Sharla Race's website with books and CD's:

http://www.foodcanmakeyouill.co.uk/

Like many have said on here...what works for one may not work for

another. All I know is what I have experienced, what I have read and

what appears to be working for me at the moment. No, I am not cured

by a long shot and I have more bad days than good days but I do know

that if I wasn't on this diet, I would be a heck of lot worse since I

respond so dramatically to all salicylates whether they are man made

or natural. Lori brought up the non & acetylated salicylate

connection which I am trying to find out more information on.

Sorry for the long ramble. Hope that it helps with your fishin'!! ))

Stephane in New Mexico

Fed Up

> However, I do have to wonder if due to the fact that salicylates

are

> cleared from the body so slowly if possibly they can accumulate

over

> time (a few days or so) and cause just a very minor isolated

> reaction involving nasal/sinus polyps only? Just enough to swell

> them up a bit to cause one to become anosmic again.

>

> I resist going on a salicylate free diet because of the absence of

> any acute noticeable reactions, but wonder if the low levels

> accumulating are still enough to affect someone negatively?

>

> Just kinda fishing here. Any thoughts???

>

> Thanks!

>

> Mike

[Guest guest]

:

Thanks so much for your kind reply. Seems like a lot of good

infomation for me to consider. It's awfully tough trying to figure

this disease out.

Best Regards,

Mike

>

[Guest guest]

Stephane:

Thanks so much for the informative reply. A lot of great information

for me to condsider for sure. It does become quite a challange

trying to figure this disease out.

Best Regaards,

Mike

> > However, I do have to wonder if due to the fact that salicylates

> are

> > cleared from the body so slowly if possibly they can accumulate

> over

> > time (a few days or so) and cause just a very minor isolated

> > reaction involving nasal/sinus polyps only? Just enough to swell

> > them up a bit to cause one to become anosmic again.

> >

> > I resist going on a salicylate free diet because of the absence

of

> > any acute noticeable reactions, but wonder if the low levels

> > accumulating are still enough to affect someone negatively?

> >

> > Just kinda fishing here. Any thoughts???

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > Mike

[Guest guest]

Mike

Perhaps even if we dont have delayed allergy to salicylates in foods the salicylate compounds

affect the acidity/alkalinity over time in the body(acidosis).Methylated Alcohol does immediate.

To be honest there are so many phenolic substances around that would also be a built up.

Difficult to know to densitisation works with acidosis.

Mike the polyps also may be due to beclamethasone,if the preservative benzalkonium chloride

is in it,because dont forget aspirin is a derivative of benzoic acid.

Or It could be corticosteroid alone doesnt help with when there is a beginning sinus fungus/ bacterial infection it just proliferates.

Mike McNeil <mcneil7353@...> wrote:

Only 4 or 5 times since my onset of Samters in 1997 have I experienced an acute, overt reaction to a food substance. Each and every time it was a German Weiss beer or Belgian Ale. I assume it may have been the salicylates since I've been tested 3X for yeast/mold allergy and was negative each time. But with eating raspberries, fresh spinich, using mouthwash, etc. I've never known an acute reaction.However, I do have to wonder if due to the fact that salicylates are cleared from the body so slowly if possibly they can accumulate over time (a few days or so) and cause just a very minor isolated reaction involving nasal/sinus polyps only? Just enough to swell them up a bit to cause one to become anosmic again. I resist going on a salicylate free diet because of the absence of any acute noticeable reactions, but wonder if

the low levels accumulating are still enough to affect someone negatively?Just kinda fishing here. Any thoughts???Thanks!Mike> > > > > > Aspirin is a salicylate.> > Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with > gradually > > increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug > > without

reaction.> > Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of food > > which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction > and > > with the suggestion that they should be avoided.> > Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise the > > consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?> > In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open to > > accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic > > reaction?> > I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject of salicylates > and apologise for my "tongue-in-cheek" posts. It is > possible that I have an aversion to diets, as I enjoy my food and > drink, without restrictions. I am however, still allergic to herbs, > curry, mouthwash?? and lotions, most noticeably at

night. I have > managed to avoid the accidental ingestion of aspirin for over 10 > years now, so cannot judge in which direction my reaction is heading.> > . > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The only thing that has changed with Feingold is that Aspartame was added this past summer. "His" list of salicylates was based on information known back in the 60's, 70's from German studies done in the 30's. The Swain study was published in 1985 (3 years after Dr. Feingold's death). Since then the Feingold Association has kept the original list as it was but added the information from the Swain papers to its membership materials and website.

http://www.feingold.org/sas.html

http://www.feingold.org/Bluebook/page-15-pst.pdf

Markey

www.feingold.org

(Feingold has improved much over the years and if you follow his strictest list, it is along the lines of the above lists).

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. A question for desensitisation converts.

From: " Belbin " <stoneywood@...>

2. Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: Ken West <kenwest@...>

3. surgery vs steroids

From: " bmv1966 " <bmv1966@...>

4. Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: " Belbin " <stoneywood@...>

5. Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: christine alexandrou <christinealexandrou@...>

6. FW: Re: Safe Frequency of Steroid Use?

From: Ken West <kenwest@...>

7. Fwd: Toxicants that Cause Acidosis(Includes aspirin)

From: christine alexandrou <christinealexandrou@...>

8. Steroid Pounding

From: " Karl L. Wuensch " <WuenschK@...>

9. FW: Re: Safe Frequency of Steroid Use?

From: " Mike McNeil " <mcneil7353@...>

10. Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: " Belbin " <stoneywood@...>

11. Re: Re: Desensitzation with Alka-Seltzer

From: Mjetd@...

12. Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: " Mike McNeil " <mcneil7353@...>

13. Re: Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: Beldon <abeldon@...>

14. Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: " s " <s_c_stevens@...>

15. Re: Steroid Pounding

From: Boston <elizabethboston@...>

16. Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: " Mike McNeil " <mcneil7353@...>

17. Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: " Mike McNeil " <mcneil7353@...>

18. Re: Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

From: christine alexandrou <christinealexandrou@...>

19. Re: Fwd: Toxicants that Cause Acidosis(Includes aspirin)

From: " truelori " <lori@...>

20. Re: Desensitzation with Alka-Seltzer

From: " Belbin " <stoneywood@...>

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1

Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 14:11:34 -0000

From: " Belbin " <stoneywood@...>

Subject: A question for desensitisation converts.

Aspirin is a salicylate.

Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with gradually

increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug

without reaction.

Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of food

which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction and

with the suggestion that they should be avoided.

Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise the

consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?

In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open to

accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic

reaction?

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2

Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 12:00:55 -0500

From: Ken West <kenwest@...>

Subject: Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

I think this is a great question, but I would suggest that it really should

be addressed to " low-salicylate diet converts " .

--

Ken West

Check the library . . .

samters/links

> From: " Belbin " <stoneywood@...>

> Aspirin is a salicylate.

> Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with gradually

> increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug

> without reaction.

> Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of food

> which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction and

> with the suggestion that they should be avoided.

> Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise the

> consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?

> In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open to

> accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic

> reaction?

>

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3

Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 17:05:42 -0000

From: " bmv1966 " <bmv1966@...>

Subject: surgery vs steroids

Ken-

Reguarding the surgery prior to desensitization question, I would

highly recommend the surgery. If you recall I had desensitization

at s Hopkins without surgery prior and I had a terrible time

getting through the titration of ASA. Now at Scripps in April of

2004, I did arrive in a " pristine " nasal state thanks to Dr. Kennedy

at PENN, and it made for a much better titration.

My polyps are extremely steroid responsive. Like you mentioned, I

can get the same response from a high dose steroid taper and some of

my ENT doctors along the way have relied on that instead of

operating. As time went on the minimum effective dose of prednisone

required to keep the polyps at bay crept upwards. I do suffer some

of the nasty side effects of the steroids. But as others have

mentioned, and after enough scares, my husband swears by the

motto, " Breathing is GOOD! " .

I have had Kenalog 10mg injected directly into my sinus tissues.

Not a pleasant procedure but it does seem to work for me as long as

the polyps are concentrated in a specific area.

I was doing very well following my second ASA desenstization but I

have had some setbacks since September. I can't really smell right

now, and I do miss it especially at this time of year. I do feel my

other senses compensate for the loss in smell as I can hear so well

now. I developed this condition right after the birth of my second

and last child. She has the most amazing sense of smell so we

always joke she took that from me. You just have to find the humor

in this condition.

I can relate to having a doctor named Dr. Hacker as the name of my

street is " Synnott Ave. " pronounced " snot " with a stress on

the " N " . I always get a comment from the doctors about that when

they read my chart.

I do hope you feel better and good luck with your decision about how

to proceed.

Take care-

Barb V NJ

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4

Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 17:33:39 -0000

From: " Belbin " <stoneywood@...>

Subject: Re: A question for desensitisation converts.

Aspirin is a salicylate.

Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with gradually

increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug

without reaction.

Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of food

which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction and

with the suggestion that they should be avoided.

Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise the

consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?

In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open to

accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic

reaction?

[Guest guest]

, do you know which spice in the mix which is called curry

causes your allergic reaction? I too have been told to avoid curry

(and peppermint, licorice and Worcestershire sauce). Since curry is

not a single spice, but a combination of spices, I was wondering

which it is we really need to avoid or could it be an additive effect

of them all together?

> >

> >

> > Aspirin is a salicylate.

> > Desensitisation works by challenging the immune system with

> gradually

> > increasing doses of aspirin, until the body will accept the drug

> > without reaction.

> > Our links page gives access to many sites that give lists of food

> > which contain salicylates, which may cause an asthmatic reaction

> and

> > with the suggestion that they should be avoided.

> > Could continual use of these salicylate rich foods desensitise

the

> > consumer from these foods and also from the main allergic drug?

> > In avoiding these foods, are we perhaps leaving ourselves open to

> > accidental ingestion of salicylates and the consequent asthmatic

> > reaction?

>

> I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject of salicylates

> and apologise for my " tongue-in-cheek " posts. It is

> possible that I have an aversion to diets, as I enjoy my food and

> drink, without restrictions. I am however, still allergic to

herbs,

> curry, mouthwash?? and lotions, most noticeably at night. I have

> managed to avoid the accidental ingestion of aspirin for over 10

> years now, so cannot judge in which direction my reaction is

heading.

>

> .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I used his diet back in the early 80's with no improvement. I

probably still have a copy of his book with the original lists

somewhere. I haven't followed his list for years but someone sent me

an updated list about a year ago and I was under the impression that

he had updated the original lists. I guess what they sent me was the

information he added from the Swain list. Sorry if I was

incorrect ))

Did you know that Samter used these lists too and before he died he

declared that the diet didn't work. I think the reason it didn't work

in his trials is because the list was so archaic and only took into

account salicylates and not the relationship between salicylates and

other chemicals. I wonder what the trials would have shown if they

had used the Swain lists.

Steohanie in New Mexico

>

> The only thing that has changed with Feingold is that Aspartame

was added

> this past summer. " His " list of salicylates was based on

information known

> back in the 60's, 70's from German studies done in the 30's. The

Swain study was

> published in 1985 (3 years after Dr. Feingold's death). Since then

the

> Feingold Association has kept the original list as it was but added

the

> information from the Swain papers to its membership materials and

website.

[Guest guest]

I did not know that Samter used these lists, too, and I find this

extremely interesting.

I don't know about the Swain list. Will have to look that up.

I tend to agree that the Feingold diet by itself probably will not

work, but it's just my opinion and if it works for some people that

is wonderful. I am also not sure how much I would enjoy life on it

quite honestly. <g>

Lori

[Guest guest]

> >

I am however, still allergic to

> herbs,curry, mouthwash?? and lotions, most noticeably at night. I

>have managed to avoid the accidental ingestion of aspirin for over

10 years now, so cannot judge in which direction my reaction is

> heading.

> >

> > .

Hi Gisele

I have to admit that I do not really know. One bad asthma spasm

attack was on leaving a Chinese resturant, another was after a

hospital staff meal, (Italian food). I approached the chef on the

latter occasion, but was treated with suspicion, and do'nt think that

I got a complete list.

I do not think that cumulative challenges effect me greatly.

It seems to start and finish suddenly. You might think that this

would make the cause easier to identify, but no.

I mentioned here a year ago of a situation where I had a very hot

bath, applied Arnica Gel to a sore/infected? ankle and had probably

the worst fever of my life. Shivering, clutching the blanket, I was

afraid to try and get up. In the morning I felt " washed out " , but

otherwise OK. I have since decided that many creams affect me to

some degree, even prescribed cortisone ointment, but are not a

problem when applied during the day.

Complicated old illness - Yes/No?

.

[Guest guest]

Complicated indeed! And making it no easier to suss out is how

different we all are. This would be a fascinating illness for a

medical researcher to pursue (though so make research difficult!

> I do not think that cumulative challenges effect me greatly.

> It seems to start and finish suddenly. You might think that this

> would make the cause easier to identify, but no.

> I mentioned here a year ago of a situation where I had a very hot

> bath, applied Arnica Gel to a sore/infected? ankle and had probably

> the worst fever of my life. Shivering, clutching the blanket, I was

> afraid to try and get up. In the morning I felt " washed out " , but

> otherwise OK. I have since decided that many creams affect me to

> some degree, even prescribed cortisone ointment, but are not a

> problem when applied during the day.

> Complicated old illness - Yes/No?

> .

[Guest guest]

> Giselle it could be colors/additives

> -If you want to test for yellow coloring in Curry( very

standard apparently),Monosodium glutamate in Chinese restaurant foods

( standard apparently)

> and sulphites in restaurant,sodium salicylates in foods and spices,

the cast 2000 test is available across the Channel. A bit dear

but could make life easier long term.

>

>

>

That is a good point, (I love that name -- named my

youngest daughter as she was born 4 days before

Christmas!). I was told to also avoid yellow dye #5. Curry

certainly is yellow!

[Guest guest]

Here is what I found out about Curry Powder:

Salicyalte content: 218* (in milligrams * per 100 grams or l per 100

milliliters) and that is without any added coloring.

Curry powder is largely composed of turmeric which is where most of

it's yellow color comes from but I have seen curry with artificial

coloring added. Curry can also have the following spices in the mix.

black pepper

cardamom

celery seed

chillies

cinnamon

cloves

coriander

cumin seeds

fennel

garlic

ginger

mace

mustard

red pepper

turmeric

All of these spices are high in salicylates except garlic

An interesting article

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc97/10_18_97/food.htm

in New Mexico

> Giselle it could be colors/additives

> -If you want to test for yellow coloring in Curry( very

standard apparently),Monosodium glutamate in Chinese restaurant foods

( standard apparently)

> and sulphites in restaurant,sodium salicylates in foods and spices,

the cast 2000 test is available across the Channel. A bit dear

but could make life easier long term.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I thought that article was very interesting too. Raises a lot of

possibilities.

in New Mexico

>

>

> Thanks!

>

> The one about adding vinegar (acid)to minty,oregano etc salads

potentially turning the high injested salicylates into acetylated

salicilic acid (aspirin) in the stomach is a breakthrough.

>

>

> Yes perhaps we should think about food combinations and this week

food acidity has been on my mind.Perticularly avoiding acid/acidified

salicylates combination may be the answer.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wines

Beer

Aged Cheeses

Fresh Orange Juice

Vinegar

Pickles

Salad Dressings

Soy Sauce

There are probably more.

> Sorry I mean vinegar beiing acetic acid.What other foodstuff

is /contain acetic acid ?

>

[Guest guest]

, thanks! That was a really interesting article! It is

obvious why curry is off my list! And so much for my dh's idea of

maybe tinkering with the mix so that it is better. Most of what it

is comprised of is high. Oh well. Good thing I like garlic! lol

I appreciate your sharing that article!

>

> Here is what I found out about Curry Powder:

>

> Salicyalte content: 218* (in milligrams * per 100 grams or l per

100

> milliliters) and that is without any added coloring.

>

> Curry powder is largely composed of turmeric which is where most of

> it's yellow color comes from but I have seen curry with artificial

> coloring added. Curry can also have the following spices in the

mix.

> black pepper

> cardamom

> celery seed

> chillies

> cinnamon

> cloves

> coriander

> cumin seeds

> fennel

> garlic

> ginger

> mace

> mustard

> red pepper

> turmeric

>

> All of these spices are high in salicylates except garlic

>

> An interesting article

> http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc97/10_18_97/food.htm

>

> in New Mexico

>