ELISA test

[Guest guest]

> From: Stern <stern@...>

>

> The only thing is point 12: I cannot believe that they did not standardize

> their ELISA.

While the authors did use the same ELISA from the same manufacturer, it is

very possible that they used multiple kits. When people do ELISA's, they

will usually buy commercially available kits. Each kit is good for a

certain number of tests. If you have to do more tests than what the kit can

do, then you need to buy multiple kits. If you do not buy kits from the

same lot, the results from one kit to the next might differ, even though

they are from the same manufacturer. I wouldn't be surprised if these

researchers did not pay attention to this, mainly just for the reason that I

bet that many researchers don't even know about this. My major professor,

whose research interest is exercise immunology, did not find out about this

until just this last week. A 50% variation between lots is quite a large

amount of variability.

JK

[Guest guest]

Rather than my giving it second hand, please let me refer everyone to what

I feel is an excellent and most pertinent article in the September, 2000 issue

of Scientific American, entitled " Muscles, Genes and Athletic Performance " ,

beginning on p. 48 (in case it's on-line). It's very readable as it should be,

certainly appropriate for the interested non-expert, which covers almost

everyone I know, certainly including me!

In brief, satellite cells, also known as stem cells, play an apparently key

and newly-observed role in muscle hypertrophy. Their importance lies in the fact

that for the most part, muscles cells cannot divide in the mature adult; they

are called " terminally differentiated " . So, aside from the well-established

response of training-induced thickening of existing myofibrils via

stress-activation of signaling pathways, which turn on the genes which code for

these structural proteins (primarily actin and myosin), there exists a pathway

involving satellite cells.

The evidence is that in response to the microtrauma associated with

training, satellite cells (so-called because of their close proximity to the

muscle) are attracted to the sites of muscle damage. (As an aside, maybe THIS is

the major role for the immune system: attracting satellite cells, but that is

personal speculation, and I know of no evidence, pro or con). Next, the newly

attracted satellite cells appear to fuse with the damaged muscle cells, turning

on muscle (and other) protein synthesis, and in the process, undergoing nuclear

division, so that one nucleus is " donated " to the muscle, and the other serves

to sustain the pool of satellite cells. The final result is the challenged

muscle now having more nuclei, which in time allows the cell to achieve greater

volume and fiber content.

Many questions come to my mind in this new light. How do these two pathways

compare in importance? What is the optimal stimulus for activating each of these

pathways? Do we have a limited supply of satellite cells ? (as a parallel, in

cancer chemotherapy, there is a state in heavily-treated patients termed an

" exhausted " bone marrow, wherein the ability of the marrow to recover and

provide the usual cellular components to the blood is in jeopardy) Does training

affect the pool of satellite cells as we age? If inflammation attracts satellite

cells, is that an argument against using anti-inflammatories in training?

Please let us all know if any of you come across more research in this

area!

Thanks,

Jim

[Guest guest]

....here is a link to tell you about the test. Trudy.

http://www.medicomm.net/Consumer%20Site/tp/tp_e7.htm

> Hi,

>

> What's this ellisa act test you had? I've never heard of it. Been

thinking of doing a gluten free diet myself to see if that works. Just

need to find a list of things I can't eat.

>

> Great to hear you're doing so well..

[Guest guest]

Trudy. For some reason I think I'd have to be desensitized to the "thought" of being desensitized to dust mites before I could actually consider it. May be a good feature for Fear Factor. I don't know a lot about those critters, but do understand that a dead mite is as bad as a living one. Guess when you walk into a room, they just keep getting kicked up into the air. But they love warm, humid conditions to multiply so I'm sure your air conditioning costs are up there. At least there's a benefit to being an Eskimo. Just don't try gasoline.

I'll try to keep the rest simple, but it really does get very complex, which is why doctors get paid big bucks.

The RAST test (Allergen-specific IgE Antibody test) measures IgE response to specific allergens, as the name implies. Ig stands for immunoglobulin which is found in our immune system. The E is a specific class that is associated with and triggers an immune reaction. It appears early in the immune response/reaction process. For example, if you have an allergy to cat dander, you'll now it shortly after the cat jumps on to your lap. The IgE antibodies for cats in your blood with trigger histamines etc. and you'll sneeze. Or maybe the cat drags in dust mites.

The ELISA test measures IgG, which is another class found in the immune system. It appears later in the immune response process and is often associated with intolerance to a substance, toxin, food etc. that may not manifest itself quickly but may start cooking sometime later. With food, the time of reaction is largely dependent on how fast your digestive system is working and will vary in people. The ELISA test is now widely used to test for various specific antibodies although it was developed in the late '80's as a test for just HIV. For salicylic acid intolerance, the ELISA test would provide quick results and should clearly diagnose both the intolerance and the degree of intolerance. If your reaction is quick, it should be picked up in an IgE test (RAST, pin prick). But the ELISA test is often discarded by the medical community as it relates to full food panel testing because it doesn't provide a definite diagnosis, but rather provides an indicator of a disturbance in your immune system (not definitive because development of antibodies from foods may be nonspecific and/or your system may be developing antibodies as a protective measure against future problems/allergies). This is the reason why those who use it in the field ask you to discontinue a wide variety of foods for a while, then add back foods to see what happens. Again, the test shows an "indication".

Since IgG appears in food intolerance, it's often not picked up in tests for IgE (Rast or pin prick). IgG also increases up during desens., and some of it acts as a block to the IgE antibodies that were causing a problem. It gets a lot more complicated, but for those who might like a career in Immunology, I'll attach a good article.

I'm finding it difficult to locate a source for this test that would cover an entire panel of food, but it seems to be a good money maker for the more homeopathic doctor set. There is a mail order lab (York Labs) that offers it for $300+ and tests blood using a pin prick sample you send them. I'll keep looking for something more local that doesn't require a doctor visit and a one year contract.

Below are some sites I've found useful to understanding this area a little better:

Sample ELISA test

If you click on the sample, it'll show what the results could look like for a full food panel . It measures both IgE and IgG, often with results that don't match.

York Nutritional Laboratories... Optimum health is at the tip of your finger w

This is the mail order group I found. Can't recommend them, but can add to the understanding.

Antibody activity of IgG subclasses

Shows why doctors get paid big bucks, but good if you're in your last year of med school. Complex but I'm getting to the point that I understand a few of the words. Good scan through for information that'll cause your doctor to storm out of the room.

Genentech: Products - Product Information - Xolair

Interesting new treatment concept (2003) that perhaps some on this board have been prescribed. Now I'm starting to understand it. Might be worthwhile to inquire with your doctor. In theory, this should eliminate the need for multiple products (Singulair, Antihistamines, aspirin) since it activates a block before prostaglandin's, leukotrienes and histamines are produced.

What do dust mites taste like?

in Arizona

Ps: If anyone can't open the links, and is interested, I'll forward back the complete web site address.

AOL spellcheck is much nicer to me than MS Word. Has a problem with IgE, but I'm sure I can get it to learn...or I'll never type it again.

[Guest guest]

Ps:

Darn it !!! Now I'm thinking about a bunch of Eskimos. Years ago someone did a study of Eskimos because they had a very, very low incidence of heart disease, believed to largely be caused by inflammation of the arteries. They found, duh, that they ate a lot of fish. They concluded that fish contain Omega fatty acids, so a whole new industry was born selling more fish and more pills as a cure to future heart disease. Clever.

But Omega's synthesize in the body down to prostaglandin's and luekotrines, which are 2 of the three inflammatory mediators (short of histamines).

Anybody ever consider that maybe they were heart healthy because all they ate were fish? Fish, fish, fish!!! Breakfast, lunch and dinner. Fish! Anybody ever consider that they may have started the desens. process for fish oil shortly after birth and were totally desensitived to the inflammatory effects of the Omega's by the time they were 3?

Not only that, they stayed free of grasses, weeds, trees, cats and dust mites. Move an Eskimo to Chicago and see how long he'll/she'll live.

This board is making me nuts !!! Think I'll grab a lawn chair and head down to the big tailgate party on the border.

Whatever,

in Arizona

[Guest guest]

I'm starting to think this board is turning into excellent fodder for a great fiction novel (or maybe non-fiction). Have you ever thought that medical schools created enough specialties years ago so no one doctor would know enough about what the other doctor is thinking and learning? And every time a doctor figures it all out, he disappears. But the reason had less to do with complexity than with money, careers, fear of over population and fear of a bankrupt social security system. It seems like every specialty only treats a piece of a much bigger puzzle rather than the whole picture. The book would end with a long line of people, all wearing grey clothes, moving forward to get their daily paper cup of pills. If the lines got too long, the pills started to change. If someone got too old and slowed the line down, they got a special pill. Pills, of course, would be handed out by a ghostly Orwell look alike. No one was allowed to use the Google search engine to help figure things out.

I'm going to ask my allergist about Xolair (Zolair?). It comes in the form of an injection, so that gives me a little pause. What gives me more pause is that it's the first biotech product developed for asthma (and I would assume rhinitis, anosmia from inflammation etc.), but comes from a suspension of Chinese hamster ovary cells. As a male, I have a couple of concerns about side effects. On the other hand, the money people are certainly watching this so we should expect Hamster pills to be the next big push in the health food stores. Then I'll have to read the label to make sure they're not Rocky Mountain hamsters. Maybe the tobacco companies will start spraying their cigarettes with hamster ovaries and we'll all live to be 150 if we hang out in bowling alleys.

I'm going to take another walk. One subjective side effect of avoiding milk, egg yokes, meat and fish is that your brains fall out of your head. But at least I can smell the roses a little now, even though I now worry about all the mites that the quail are dusting off of their feathers out in my garden. I think I'll drown them...the mites, that is.

Sunny, dry and 78.

in Arizona

[Guest guest]

Not sure if you were sending the info to me or someone else, I found

a link for to try too. As for myself I majored in Microbiology

and Lab Sciences so I already knew what it was! The Xolair item is

interesting. My ENT and I decided to wait on it for a bit, kind of

like using the big gun antibiotics...only when extreme circumstances

arise. I hate the idea of dust mites but I know we breath them in by

the millions everyday...gives me the heebie-jeebies just thinking

about it. I could look at a zillion bugs, bacteria, virus, fungus

under the scope...but in my respiratory system...ahhhhhg. You are

right about them being just as bothersome dead or alive. I lived in

Kodiak, Alaska for six years and they had cockroaches galore there.

When they would spray to kill them my allergist would say to leave

the island for a while because their carcasses were much more

dangerous than their living bodies. Trudy.

In samters , RulonKB@a... wrote:

> Trudy. For some reason I think I'd have to be desensitized to

the " thought "

> of being desensitized to dust mites before I could actually

consider it. May

> be a good feature for Fear Factor. I don't know a lot about those

critters,

> but do understand that a dead mite is as bad as a living one.

Guess when you

> walk into a room, they just keep getting kicked up into the air.

But they love

> warm, humid conditions to multiply so I'm sure your air

conditioning costs

> are up there. At least there's a benefit to being an Eskimo.

Just don't try

> gasoline.

>

> I'll try to keep the rest simple, but it really does get very

complex, which

> is why doctors get paid big bucks.

>

> The RAST test (Allergen-specific IgE Antibody test) measures IgE

response to

> specific allergens, as the name implies. Ig stands for

immunoglobulin which

> is found in our immune system. The E is a specific class that is

associated

> with and triggers an immune reaction. It appears early in the

immune

> response/reaction process. For example, if you have an allergy to

cat dander, you'll

> now it shortly after the cat jumps on to your lap. The IgE

antibodies for cats

> in your blood with trigger histamines etc. and you'll sneeze. Or

maybe the

> cat drags in dust mites.

>

> The ELISA test measures IgG, which is another class found in the

immune

> system. It appears later in the immune response process and is

often associated

> with intolerance to a substance, toxin, food etc. that may not

manifest itself

> quickly but may start cooking sometime later. With food, the time

of reaction

> is largely dependent on how fast your digestive system is working

and will

> vary in people. The ELISA test is now widely used to test for

various specific

> antibodies although it was developed in the late '80's as a test

for just HIV.

> For salicylic acid intolerance, the ELISA test would provide quick

results

> and should clearly diagnose both the intolerance and the degree of

intolerance.

> If your reaction is quick, it should be picked up in an IgE test

(RAST, pin

> prick). But the ELISA test is often discarded by the medical

community as it

> relates to full food panel testing because it doesn't provide a

definite

> diagnosis, but rather provides an indicator of a disturbance in

your immune system

> (not definitive because development of antibodies from foods may

be

> nonspecific and/or your system may be developing antibodies as a

protective measure

> against future problems/allergies). This is the reason why those

who use it in

> the field ask you to discontinue a wide variety of foods for a

while, then add

> back foods to see what happens. Again, the test shows

an " indication " .

>

> Since IgG appears in food intolerance, it's often not picked up in

tests for

> IgE (Rast or pin prick). IgG also increases up during desens.,

and some of it

> acts as a block to the IgE antibodies that were causing a

problem. It gets a

> lot more complicated, but for those who might like a career in

Immunology,

> I'll attach a good article.

>

> I'm finding it difficult to locate a source for this test that

would cover an

> entire panel of food, but it seems to be a good money maker for

the more

> homeopathic doctor set. There is a mail order lab (York Labs)

that offers it for

> $300+ and tests blood using a pin prick sample you send them.

I'll keep

> looking for something more local that doesn't require a doctor

visit and a one year

> contract.

>

> Below are some sites I've found useful to understanding this area

a little

> better:

>

> Sample ELISA test

>

> If you click on the sample, it'll show what the results could

look like for

> a full food panel . It measures both IgE and IgG, often with

results that

> don't match.

>

> York Nutritional Laboratories... Optimum health is at the tip of

your finger w

>

> This is the mail order group I found. Can't recommend them, but

can add to

> the understanding.

>

> Antibody activity of IgG subclasses

>

> Shows why doctors get paid big bucks, but good if you're in your

last year of

> med school. Complex but I'm getting to the point that I

understand a few of

> the words. Good scan through for information that'll cause your

doctor to

> storm out of the room.

>

> Genentech: Products - Product Information - Xolair

>

> Interesting new treatment concept (2003) that perhaps some on this

board have

> been prescribed. Now I'm starting to understand it. Might be

worthwhile to

> inquire with your doctor. In theory, this should eliminate the

need for

> multiple products (Singulair, Antihistamines, aspirin) since it

activates a block

> before prostaglandin's, leukotrienes and histamines are produced.

>

> What do dust mites taste like?

>

> in Arizona

>

> Ps: If anyone can't open the links, and is interested, I'll

forward back the

> complete web site address.

>

> AOL spellcheck is much nicer to me than MS Word. Has a problem

with IgE, but

> I'm sure I can get it to learn...or I'll never type it again.

[Guest guest]

Trudy: I would urge you to rething the Zolair thing. There seem to be no

negative effects and it takes the allergy component right out of the

picture. My sinuses look awesome for the first time in 12 years on it.

Especially for someone who has samters and CSs. My allergist says it seems

to have other effects in terms of down regulating an overactive immune

system ( besides just blocking allergies) Carol

Re: ELISA test

>

>

> Not sure if you were sending the info to me or someone else, I found

> a link for to try too. As for myself I majored in Microbiology

> and Lab Sciences so I already knew what it was! The Xolair item is

> interesting. My ENT and I decided to wait on it for a bit, kind of

> like using the big gun antibiotics...only when extreme circumstances

> arise. I hate the idea of dust mites but I know we breath them in by

> the millions everyday...gives me the heebie-jeebies just thinking

> about it. I could look at a zillion bugs, bacteria, virus, fungus

> under the scope...but in my respiratory system...ahhhhhg. You are

> right about them being just as bothersome dead or alive. I lived in

> Kodiak, Alaska for six years and they had cockroaches galore there.

> When they would spray to kill them my allergist would say to leave

> the island for a while because their carcasses were much more

> dangerous than their living bodies. Trudy.

>

> In samters , RulonKB@a... wrote:

>> Trudy. For some reason I think I'd have to be desensitized to

> the " thought "

>> of being desensitized to dust mites before I could actually

> consider it. May

>> be a good feature for Fear Factor. I don't know a lot about those

> critters,

>> but do understand that a dead mite is as bad as a living one.

> Guess when you

>> walk into a room, they just keep getting kicked up into the air.

> But they love

>> warm, humid conditions to multiply so I'm sure your air

> conditioning costs

>> are up there. At least there's a benefit to being an Eskimo.

> Just don't try

>> gasoline.

>>

>> I'll try to keep the rest simple, but it really does get very

> complex, which

>> is why doctors get paid big bucks.

>>

>> The RAST test (Allergen-specific IgE Antibody test) measures IgE

> response to

>> specific allergens, as the name implies. Ig stands for

> immunoglobulin which

>> is found in our immune system. The E is a specific class that is

> associated

>> with and triggers an immune reaction. It appears early in the

> immune

>> response/reaction process. For example, if you have an allergy to

> cat dander, you'll

>> now it shortly after the cat jumps on to your lap. The IgE

> antibodies for cats

>> in your blood with trigger histamines etc. and you'll sneeze. Or

> maybe the

>> cat drags in dust mites.

>>

>> The ELISA test measures IgG, which is another class found in the

> immune

>> system. It appears later in the immune response process and is

> often associated

>> with intolerance to a substance, toxin, food etc. that may not

> manifest itself

>> quickly but may start cooking sometime later. With food, the time

> of reaction

>> is largely dependent on how fast your digestive system is working

> and will

>> vary in people. The ELISA test is now widely used to test for

> various specific

>> antibodies although it was developed in the late '80's as a test

> for just HIV.

>> For salicylic acid intolerance, the ELISA test would provide quick

> results

>> and should clearly diagnose both the intolerance and the degree of

> intolerance.

>> If your reaction is quick, it should be picked up in an IgE test

> (RAST, pin

>> prick). But the ELISA test is often discarded by the medical

> community as it

>> relates to full food panel testing because it doesn't provide a

> definite

>> diagnosis, but rather provides an indicator of a disturbance in

> your immune system

>> (not definitive because development of antibodies from foods may

> be

>> nonspecific and/or your system may be developing antibodies as a

> protective measure

>> against future problems/allergies). This is the reason why those

> who use it in

>> the field ask you to discontinue a wide variety of foods for a

> while, then add

>> back foods to see what happens. Again, the test shows

> an " indication " .

>>

>> Since IgG appears in food intolerance, it's often not picked up in

> tests for

>> IgE (Rast or pin prick). IgG also increases up during desens.,

> and some of it

>> acts as a block to the IgE antibodies that were causing a

> problem. It gets a

>> lot more complicated, but for those who might like a career in

> Immunology,

>> I'll attach a good article.

>>

>> I'm finding it difficult to locate a source for this test that

> would cover an

>> entire panel of food, but it seems to be a good money maker for

> the more

>> homeopathic doctor set. There is a mail order lab (York Labs)

> that offers it for

>> $300+ and tests blood using a pin prick sample you send them.

> I'll keep

>> looking for something more local that doesn't require a doctor

> visit and a one year

>> contract.

>>

>> Below are some sites I've found useful to understanding this area

> a little

>> better:

>>

>> Sample ELISA test

>>

>> If you click on the sample, it'll show what the results could

> look like for

>> a full food panel . It measures both IgE and IgG, often with

> results that

>> don't match.

>>

>> York Nutritional Laboratories... Optimum health is at the tip of

> your finger w

>>

>> This is the mail order group I found. Can't recommend them, but

> can add to

>> the understanding.

>>

>> Antibody activity of IgG subclasses

>>

>> Shows why doctors get paid big bucks, but good if you're in your

> last year of

>> med school. Complex but I'm getting to the point that I

> understand a few of

>> the words. Good scan through for information that'll cause your

> doctor to

>> storm out of the room.

>>

>> Genentech: Products - Product Information - Xolair

>>

>> Interesting new treatment concept (2003) that perhaps some on this

> board have

>> been prescribed. Now I'm starting to understand it. Might be

> worthwhile to

>> inquire with your doctor. In theory, this should eliminate the

> need for

>> multiple products (Singulair, Antihistamines, aspirin) since it

> activates a block

>> before prostaglandin's, leukotrienes and histamines are produced.

>>

>> What do dust mites taste like?

>>

>> in Arizona

>>

>> Ps: If anyone can't open the links, and is interested, I'll

> forward back the

>> complete web site address.

>>

>> AOL spellcheck is much nicer to me than MS Word. Has a problem

> with IgE, but

>> I'm sure I can get it to learn...or I'll never type it again.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do you ever wonder who thinks this stuff up? Hmmmmm...there is a

Chinese Hamster, I wonder if her ovaries have any medicinal properties,

well let's just find out. I am peri-menopausal (46) and have been

noticing the premarin commercials more since finding out it is pregnant-

mare-urine. What the heck? Yeah, that is something I want in my body.

Trudy.

What gives me more

pause is that it's the first biotech product developed for asthma (and

I would assume rhinitis, anosmia from inflammation etc.), but comes

from a suspension of Chinese hamster ovary cells.