Re: Need Opinions Please

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/2/2005 11:42:12 PM US Mountain Standard Time, s_c_stevens@... writes:

I just ran across a product E3Live (a blue-green algae) that Iwas thinking of trying but it says that it is a natural COX-2inhibitor.

I'm not familiar with E3Live but it probably falls into the plant flavonoid group that has recently begun to market under the 2 inhibitor publicity banner. My experience with another "2" derived from hops has been disappointing and cost me $30 to find out. It is, however, believed that flavonoids can have up to 20 times the positive effect of vitamin "C" without the dangers, but may need around the daily RDA of "C" to become effective. With negative research on mega doses of "C" (Ascorbic acid), I would remain cautious on the flavonoids also. Some very recent research suggests that a daily glass of red wine may not be as good for you as previously thought. The reason relates to the grapes...and possibly the high level of flavonoids they contain.

As my own Guinea pig, on a strict food regimen that allows me to experiment, I personally experienced what mega "C" can do yesterday. After all the web hype of "C", I tried to see if mega dosing would have a positive impact on anosmia/breathing. Took a 500mg dose, 3 times, over the course of the day. Breathing was initially better, then by night had become much worse. Kept me up most of the night with relatively acute pain in the lower part of my bronchial tubes near the top of my lungs...likely an area already inflamed. Took an antihistamine this morning and it cleared up quickly.

This caused me to do further research on mega-"C" this morning that further confirmed what may have happened. Taking amounts much above the RDA of 60mg/day appears to cause the opposite effect than what was intended. That is, "C" changed from an anti-oxidizer to an oxidizer. While protective at low levels, it became toxic at high levels. That said, I'm going to detox for a while and acquire my "C" from a single glass of orange juice/day (93 mg) and a little from my Kellogg Smart Start cereal which gives me most of the vitamins necessary/day, except "C". I'm also going to stop my multivitamin that has 120 mg of "C", in favor of the foods.

One thing I may have missed in my food regimen was the "C" I was getting from eating a lot of Pineapple during the first two weeks. This was the period that I had experienced a progressively improved sense of smell, and may suggested a "C" deficency which can also be harmful. I ran out of Pineapple around the beginning of week 3, switched to veggies and that may have been a cause for losing my sense of smell again.

But I'm also now much more interested in "C". That an antihistamine corrected the discomfort suggests that histamines may have been involved. That there was pain/discomfort in my bronchial tubes suggests that bad fat prostaglandin's may have been involved...and possibly leukotrines too. Some of the research I referred to was based on lipids, or fats, to those of us who are less medically inclined. It appears normal "C" acts as an anti-inflammatory at low levels, but inflammatory at high. After I detox from the mega-dosing yesterday, I'll resume my food regimen with just a simple glass of orange juice to see if the positive effect of sense of smell returns. Maybe the terms antioxidant and free radical are code words that the pharmaceutical industry came up with so we wouldn't take antioxidants in favor of good prescription drugs. Or not.

This may prove useful to others who may be taking a higher than RDA dosage of "C" believing it was helpful, but may actually be harmful and causing more inflammation. Reduction of mega-doses should be gradual, however, as the body may continue to excrete the excess beyond the normal RDA, resulting in a "C" deficiency which could lead to Scurvy. Orange juice could avoid this.

Will let you know what happens after I detox and start again at a much, much lower dose.

Whatever. Just another $.02 looking for the cure.

(AZ)

Ps: Linus ing won a Nobel Prize for his early work and recommendation of mega dosing on Vitamin "C". He's dead now, you know.

Sources:

Emil et al, Principles of Biochemistry: Mammalian Biochemistry. Copyright 1983 by McGraw Hill, Inc. p. 666-668

W.C. McMurray. A Synopsis of Human Biochemistry: With Medical Applications. Copyright 1982. Harper % Row, Publishers, Inc. p. 82-86

A. Negre-Salvayre et al, "Protective effect of alpha-tocopherol, ascorbic acid and rutin against peroxidative stress induced by oxidized lipoproteins on lymphoid cell lines," Biochemical Pharmacology, 1991, 42(2):450-453.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm so sorry to hear that you have not been doing well. I hope you

find something that helps very soon. I don't feel qualified to answer

your question, but my general view is that it's better to try new

things when you are relatively stable, because you'll get a better idea

of whether they might help you or not. And if they would be harmful

this would not be the time to find out, when you're not doing well at

all.

but then again I understand you must feel more desperate right now. If

you do decide to take it I would do it under the doctor's supervision.

They may not like that you're taking it, but at least they will be

aware so if something bad does happen, you can have immediate

assistance and help them to pinpoint the problem.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing.

Lori

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for responding. I am digesting what you have written. This

being a natural food though, I am not sure that it would have the side

effects that taking a manufactured vitamin can. Since I cross react

with tylenol I am thinking that it could be like doing a type of

desense like a couple on here have done with Celebrex. I was astounded

to find out that it had a natural COX-2 inhibitor. Which plant

flavonoid group is marketing under the COX-2 inhibitor publicity banne?

Vitamin C competes with salicylic acid in the body for excretion and

vit C wins each time. High amounts vitamin C actually cause your body

to retain more salicylates. I have the reference on this somewhere but

at the moment, I can't remember where.

Ummm...old age will do that to you...>LOL<

New Mexico

> Ps: Linus ing won a Nobel Prize for his early work and

recommendation of

> mega dosing on Vitamin " C " . He's dead now, you know.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori,

Thanks...it is just the usual as you well know.

I tend to agree with you about waiting until I am a bit more stablized

before trying a new product. I was thinking of trying it until I came

to the part about the COX-2 inhibitor and came to a screeching halt.

It got me thinking if the amount of the natural COX-2 inhibitor in

this product is enough to be like doing a desense. I am remembering

that at least one on here was desensed on Celebrex. The way I react to

natural chemicals & salicylates in foods and stuff, and since I cross

react to Tylenol, I don't think this would be a good product for me.

The combination of all the natural compounds and the COX-2 inhibitor

is really enough to scare me away from it. I was just wondering is

anyone else would think the same after reading it or if perhaps I am

off in left field.

Thanks again,

New Mexico

> my general view is that it's better to try new

> things when you are relatively stable, because you'll get a better idea

> of whether they might help you or not. And if they would be harmful

> this would not be the time to find out, when you're not doing well at

> all.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Liz,

It's been really rougher than usual these past 3 years. I think I am

going through the change and wonder if that has anything to do with

this. It is almost like when I first became ill at 15. I surely hope

that it gets better after the change. Don't think my body or mind can

take much more.

Hope that you are doing well.

-NM

> Hi ,

>

> I am working many many hours and have not had time to respond to the

brain, character and information power of this powerful " trust. "

> Worse yet, I am unable to intelligibly respond to your query.

> What much you are coping with, you have my best thoughts and best

wishes for strength and recovery.

> Liz

[Guest guest]

IQ tests are a useful tool, but not the only tool. Trust your instincts,

Kym.

granny

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM, kym mac <mymacfamily@...> wrote:

>

>

> School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's three year

> re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room with pull

> outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am hoping

> that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in reg ed

> with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a good

> idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before a big

> transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas, opinions on

> the subject?

> Thanks SO much in advance,

> Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

>

>

[Guest guest]

If parents and district agree (brrrr!), triennial testing can be very minimal.

For IQ testing, it really makes a difference why the district wants to do the

testing and who is interpreting the results. If it’s being done to determine

better how to help the child, great. If it’s being done to track the kid and

do minimal work on educating, then not so much.

If a district is strongly motivated, it can be hard to stop them from testing.

If that’s the case, remember that the test itself can matter (UNIT or Leiter

or the new one from AZ v Stanford Binet, for example). And if you aren’t

liking the results or how they’re being used, remember you have the right to

ask the district to pay for an IEE at their expense but with your chosen

provider.

Judi

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

Loree5@...

Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:04 AM

mloomas@...; gem.bordages@...;

Subject: RE: Need opinions please

I didn't know you could refuse the tri testing. I know you can refuse a

particular test like the IQ and ask for a different one but I thought the tri

testing was sstte mandated!

Loree

Re: Need opinions please

& gt;

& gt; IQ tests are a useful tool, but not the only tool. Trust your instincts,

& gt; Kym.

& gt;

& gt; granny

& gt;

& gt; On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM, kym mac & lt;mymacfamily@...

<mailto:mymacfamily%40cox.net> & gt; wrote:

& gt;

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's three

year

& gt; & gt; re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room with

pull

& gt; & gt; outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am

hoping

& gt; & gt; that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in

reg ed

& gt; & gt; with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a

good

& gt; & gt; idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before

a big

& gt; & gt; transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas,

opinions on

& gt; & gt; the subject?

& gt; & gt; Thanks SO much in advance,

& gt; & gt; Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt;

[Guest guest]

has only had 1 Tri testing done and that was at age 6. My advocate thru

the ARC told me I could refuse any and all testing at any time. I've been using

the ARC for an advocate since he was 6 and they come to every IEP meeting since

Kindergarten when I had an issue with the school loosing and then blaming

me, I have had an advocate with me. It helps me when things get personal and

emotional to have someone there to let the school know what the laws are and to

explain things clearer to me that might come up. The ARC advocates are one

reason I've gone back to school to get my degree so I can help others navigate

thru the Federal and State laws to get the best for their child/children.

Marcia Freeman

mloomas@...; gem.bordages@...;

From: Loree5@...

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:04:10 -0400

Subject: RE: Need opinions please

I didn't know you could refuse the tri testing. I know you can refuse a

particular test like the IQ and ask for a different one but I thought the tri

testing was sstte mandated!

Loree

Re: Need opinions please

& gt;

& gt; IQ tests are a useful tool, but not the only tool. Trust your instincts,

& gt; Kym.

& gt;

& gt; granny

& gt;

& gt; On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM, kym mac & lt;mymacfamily@... & gt; wrote:

& gt;

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's three

year

& gt; & gt; re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room with

pull

& gt; & gt; outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am

hoping

& gt; & gt; that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in

reg ed

& gt; & gt; with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a

good

& gt; & gt; idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before

a big

& gt; & gt; transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas,

opinions on

& gt; & gt; the subject?

& gt; & gt; Thanks SO much in advance,

& gt; & gt; Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt;

[Guest guest]

I attended a seminar giving by a parent/lawyer advocate and he recommends

*never* allowing school to have or test for IQ.

The *only* reason they would need/want that number is to tell you what your

child can NOT do. That number means your child is not *able* to learn to

educators, despite the fact that the tes is not very accurate with out kids.

So I do not allow for it with my dd in school. It's not needed at all to

asses where your child is at with learning, nor does it help ( except to

prejudice everyone) with a child needs to learn.

All the typical assessment tests do that!

If your goal is asses present levels and chart out what is next on things to

learn, you do not need and IQ.

If you want to give your school ammunition to use against your child

learning, let them do an IQ test.

If you need an IQ for social services you can have it done privately and do

NOT give permission to share that with the school!

If school says you HAVE to have it for services, start asking questions!

Like WHY? Don't your current assessments give your accurate feedback? How

does knowing an IQ number help you know what and how to teach - the answer

to that questions in my district is finally what won that battle for us. ;-)

And the answer to that will also give you an idea as to how they 'view' your

child's potential.

*Club Layton* <http://clublayton.blogspot.com/>

Where games are played, and friends are made!

*A big THANK you to :*

Layton Athletics <http://laytonathletics.com/>

5402 Austin Court

Ringwood, IL 60072-9404

(815) 728-9700

*for their generous *donation* of their building for our activities!!*

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM, kym mac <mymacfamily@...> wrote:

>

>

> School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's three year

> re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room with pull

> outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am hoping

> that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in reg ed

> with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a good

> idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before a big

> transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas, opinions on

> the subject?

> Thanks SO much in advance,

> Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Micah's triennial was due this year and I had his neuropsych done privately. 

We did the IQ test because I wanted to see how it came out.  I knew I could

decide on whether to share the info or not.  In the end I did share it because

the report from the neuropsych said he felt it was on the lower end of the scale

in his actual abilities because he did not attend as well as he could have. 

It also showed some areas that were  great strengths mand how to use these

strengths to better teach him.  At this point in time I felt it was alright to

share the info because Micah has " proven " himself in many ways capable of

learning and so the fear of not " serviceing " him for lack of a better word, is

not as great.  The teachers have seen what he can do and have much higher

expectations for him now.  The neuropsych felt the IQ was not an accurate

picture of his potential and felt he needed to be retested at a later date.  If

all of this had not accompanied his testing I would not have shared it because

it would have given a skewed assesment.  Because we had it done privately by a

center of excellence that deals specifically with children with Developmental

delays was a good move on my part as they were able to more accurately assess

Micah.  I will go back in a few years for a new assesment and once again decide

what I will share with the school.  The nice thing is when you pay for it

yourself YOU get to control the info that is shared with the school.

 

Loree

Re: Need opinions please

& gt;

& gt; IQ tests are a useful tool, but not the only tool. Trust your instincts,

& gt; Kym.

& gt;

& gt; granny

& gt;

& gt; On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM, kym mac & lt;mymacfamily@... & gt; wrote:

& gt;

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt; School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's three

year

& gt; & gt; re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room with

pull

& gt; & gt; outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am

hoping

& gt; & gt; that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in

reg ed

& gt; & gt; with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a

good

& gt; & gt; idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before

a big

& gt; & gt; transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas,

opinions on

& gt; & gt; the subject?

& gt; & gt; Thanks SO much in advance,

& gt; & gt; Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

& gt; & gt;

& gt; & gt;

[Guest guest]

Bear in mind that giving school an IQ number is like losing your virginity-

you can never get it back.

And, they can not with hold services when a clear need is demonstrated

through other means. If they say that, they are trying to bully you into a

score.

On Sep 28, 2010 12:57pm, Loree5@... wrote:

> Micah's triennial was due this year and I had his neuropsych done

> privately. We did the IQ test because I wanted to see how it came out. I

> knew I could decide on whether to share the info or not. In the end I did

> share it because the report from the neuropsych said he felt it was on

> the lower end of the scale in his actual abilities because he did not

> attend as well as he could have. It also showed some areas that were

> great strengths mand how to use these strengths to better teach him. At

> this point in time I felt it was alright to share the info because Micah

> has " proven " himself in many ways capable of learning and so the fear of

> not " serviceing " him for lack of a better word, is not as great. The

> teachers have seen what he can do and have much higher expectations for

> him now. The neuropsych felt the IQ was not an accurate picture of his

> potential and felt he needed to be retested at a later date. If all of

> this had not accompanied his testing I would not have shared it because

> it would have given a skewed assesment. Because we had it done privately

> by a center of excellence that deals specifically with children with

> Developmental delays was a good move on my part as they were able to more

> accurately assess Micah. I will go back in a few years for a new

> assesment and once again decide what I will share with the school. The

> nice thing is when you pay for it yourself YOU get to control the info

> that is shared with the school.

> Loree

> Re: Need opinions please

> >

> > IQ tests are a useful tool, but not the only tool. Trust your instincts,

> > Kym.

> >

> > granny

> >

> > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM, kym mac <mymacfamily@...> wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's

> three year

> > > re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room

> with pull

> > > outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am

> hoping

> > > that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in

> reg ed

> > > with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a

> good

> > > idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before

> a big

> > > transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas,

> opinions on

> > > the subject?

> > > Thanks SO much in advance,

> > > Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

hasn't been tested since 2001, since we moved to a new state. We also

use IEP goals, objectives, and observation to see how she is doing. As long

as she is achieving, and we are writing new goals, etc., for her, we are

happy. And we no longer have the stress of listening to test results that

we never have believed gave a true picture of 's abilities.

Sharon

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:55 PM, kym mac <mymacfamily@...> wrote:

>

>

> School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's three year

> re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room with pull

> outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am hoping

> that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in reg ed

> with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a good

> idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before a big

> transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas, opinions on

> the subject?

> Thanks SO much in advance,

> Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kym,

In MY opinion, which you know I am ALWAYS so willing to give, an IQ is not

accurate nor fair and will be used AGAINST our kids whenever possible.

[Guest guest]

my daughter has never been tested for IQ, at least not to my knowledge. I've

always refused it. I don't think they can do any testing without your

permission. The trick is to know what the different tests are. They call

them other things other than IQ tests. , etc. Sorry can't remember

any others at this moment.

Re: Need opinions please

> hasn't been tested since 2001, since we moved to a new state. We

> also

> use IEP goals, objectives, and observation to see how she is doing. As

> long

> as she is achieving, and we are writing new goals, etc., for her, we are

> happy. And we no longer have the stress of listening to test results that

> we never have believed gave a true picture of 's abilities.

>

> Sharon

>

> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:55 PM, kym mac <mymacfamily@...> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's three

>> year

>> re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room with

>> pull

>> outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am

>> hoping

>> that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in reg

>> ed

>> with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a good

>> idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before a

>> big

>> transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas, opinions

>> on

>> the subject?

>> Thanks SO much in advance,

>> Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Yes.. other tests. I always tell them they can do tests that do not determine

a numerical IQ. One year the school did it.. one of the times they were being

really jerky. At the meeting the psy. kept saying.. " Well, his IQ shows.. " I

said.. we don't have an IQ that was completed on him since he was 3 yrs old (and

we were ignorant)... and she said.. yes it is.. and she kept waving it in my

face. I honestly blocked my face from her vision and said loudly, " JOHN! " ..

meaning.. help! He told her that we didn't want to know that IQ and that no

one working with him should know that IQ.

[Guest guest]

I agree. What I have found is if they want to do testing and you ask for the

result ranges for the test you can determine if they are using IQ testing ranges

for the results. Our school district tried really hard to get me to test last

year for 's Tri but they couldn't seem to understand why I wanted to see

the testing result ranges even though I told them the ranges, just happened, to

match the IQ ranges. They always act surprised, like they don't know the ranges.

The head of SPED in the district even called me to ask if we could meet to find

a test I would allow to be done, I said sure but I wasn't going to sign for

testing no matter what. Here they even want to know if your child can make a

grocery list, find all the items, pay for them, transport them home, unload, put

away, etc. Also can he ride the public transportation, I said he's just turned

12, he doesn't need to do those things and therefore I don't need to fill out

your assessment book. Their answer was the assessment was for 3-21yo. Whatever!

At least be smart enough to make the assessment match the kids age.

Marcia Freeman

mymacfamily@...; shughes813@...

CC:

From: lisa90@...

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:21:06 -0400

Subject: Re: Need opinions please

my daughter has never been tested for IQ, at least not to my knowledge. I've

always refused it. I don't think they can do any testing without your

permission. The trick is to know what the different tests are. They call

them other things other than IQ tests. , etc. Sorry can't remember

any others at this moment.

Re: Need opinions please

> hasn't been tested since 2001, since we moved to a new state. We

> also

> use IEP goals, objectives, and observation to see how she is doing. As

> long

> as she is achieving, and we are writing new goals, etc., for her, we are

> happy. And we no longer have the stress of listening to test results that

> we never have believed gave a true picture of 's abilities.

>

> Sharon

>

> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:55 PM, kym mac <mymacfamily@...> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> School psychologist called today and said it's time for 's three

>> year

>> re-eval. He is 13 and in 6th grade in a self contained class room with

>> pull

>> outs into reg ed science, social studies, music, and computers. I am

>> hoping

>> that next year he will go to Jr. High and have more changes to be in reg

>> ed

>> with typical peers. I am worried that being IQ tested may not be a good

>> idea, but then again, would it be helpful to see " where he is " before a

>> big

>> transition to Jr. High school? What are your experiences, ideas, opinions

>> on

>> the subject?

>> Thanks SO much in advance,

>> Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, everybody!!! After hearing your experiences and opinions (which I

value SO much), I am going to go with my gut. They have plenty of ways to

measure his success/current performance levels withOUT any IQ testing.

Thank you so very much,

Kym...mom to 5 including (13 w/ DS)