Re: Soymilk is not really milk

June 1, 1999

Oh yes please I am very interested as I do what I can to boost immune system

of my unvaccinated children. I have one thought on animal milk, where we

intended to drink any animal milk when we were created?

Fax # 319-476-4360, you will get a recording most times just push your send

button as this is also phone #. Thank You!

Dawn

Soymilk is not really " milk "

> From: Cmermer@...

>

> Before I start ranting about Soy Formula, let me first say that soy and

soy

> products are probably generally very healthy foods. We use some Soy

" milk "

> in our home.

>

> However, it is not really a " milk " . It is just a beverage made from

soybeans

> that kind of looks and tastes a little like cow's milk. Real " milk " can

only

> be produced by a lactating animal, specifically a mammal. Although cow's

> milk is far inferior to human milk, it is miles and miles closer to human

> milk than soy " milk " .

>

> I recently heard a scientist say that a monkey's DNA is about 99%

identical

> to human DNA. Certainly, a cow is much less similiar to a human than a

> monkey, but is it most definitely closer to a human than is a soybean,

which

> is obviously not even part of the animal kingdom.

>

> I'm not saying that kids can't drink soymilk, just that it is not an

adequate

> replacement for human milk. Most experts agree that children need to

drink

> milk for about the first 2 years of life. Preferably, this should be

human

> milk. If this is not possible, it should be some other milk-based

formula.

>

> Goat's milk is much more appropriate than Soy, but also has some

drawbacks.

> For example, I don't know of any available goatmilk based infant formula.

At

> least in the formulas they make an attempt to replicate human milk by

adding

> vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc.

>

> As an example, if you look at any cow's milk based formula, you will see

that

> Taurine is one of the ingredients. This is because this amino acid is

> abundant in human milk, but is almost non-existing in cow's milk. I don't

> know about goat's milk, but I would suspect that there are many examples

of

> missing nutrients as well. Also, if the goats milk is pastuerized, it

loses

> a great deal of nutritional value as all the enzymes are destroyed in the

> process. If it is not pastuerized, you are risking infection. Either way

is

> not an ideal situation.

>

> As for the aluminum-soymilk situation, I will have to search for some

> articles which mentioned this. I will try to e-mail them to you in the

> have a weaker immune response. Do you have a fax (in the USA)? I have at

> least one hard copy of a study I can fax to you.

>

> Cory

>

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June 2, 1999

In a message dated 6/1/99 10:44:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cmermer@...

writes:

<< However, it is not really a " milk " . It is just a beverage made from

soybeans

that kind of looks and tastes a little like cow's milk. Real " milk " can

only

be produced by a lactating animal, specifically a mammal. Although cow's

milk is far inferior to human milk, it is miles and miles closer to human

milk than soy " milk " .

>>

Hi. We were very fortunate in that our son nursed for about 2 years, so I

never had to decide on formulas. He had what was the most beneficial and

natural drink. We did have trouble initially with nursing, and had a

lactation consultant come in to help. After that, it was a piece of cake.

My " kneejerk " reaction to the feeling that cow's milk is better for a baby

than soy milk is this:

First off, are there organic brands of cow's milk-based formulas? If not, I

would be HUGELY concerned with the growth hormones, steroids and antibiotics

that our dairy cattle are fed. For some more info, try www.mercola.com -

he's got a link on why we shouldn't drink milk.

Second, this statement has always stayed with me " the only reason to drink

cow's milk is to turn a calf into a 600 lb cow in 6 months. " Of course, this

is geared towards why we, in general, should not drink cow's milk. Obviously

up to 2 years of age, fat content is of NO concern to a child. Perhaps it

doesn't apply in this discussion?

Third, as it relates to the soybean not being a real milk - if you want to

dissect that, a true milk in that sense would mean from a lactating animal.

And a lactating animal is meant to nurse her young. Would you consider

drinking monkey milk or pig's milk? I'm not sure I follow the difference

there. So soy milk is made from soybeans, if it is good for you and there

are added nutrients (just as there would be to cow's milk formula), why not?

I don't mean to be confrontational on this - I am truly interested in why soy

milk would not be good for a child in terms other than it not being a " real "

milk?

Thanks for any insight!

Cathi

June 2, 1999

Cory and group,

Thanks again for this information. I feel really bad right now. First I

was unable to nurse, and then I used soy formula, and vaccinated. My

poor son.....no wonder he is such a mess! I am starting to switch my

daughter over to milk based. I hope the damage I did to them can be

reversed. I will send you my husbands fax number.

Thanks,

June 2, 1999

The hormones ,steroids and antibiotics are the very reason I stayed away

from milk based formulas in the beginning. (due to pressure I would try

milk based again, but my kids always got congested and I went back to

soy.) I know 'breast is best' but I couldn't do it for many reasons.

(medication I was on being one) I guess when a mother does not nurse she

has to accept the fact that milk or soy formula will not be as good for

her child. I wish organic milk based formula was available. That would

help a little!

June 2, 1999

In a message dated 6/2/99 3:42:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

JSUENICK@... writes:

<< (Is it too late to get MY milk back?!) SIGH

>>

Maybe that's not as far-fetched as it sounds? I know that they have ways to

enable adoptive moms to breastfeed.... If you are really interested, it

might be worth contacting LLL to see?

Did you find the soy info at mercola too? I didn't notice it. Perhaps that

is what I was remembering (vaguely) as the " negative " soy info. Such a

dilemma....

Cathi

June 2, 1999

Well......I just went into the

http://www.mercola.com

site. He does have a link on milk, explaining how bad it is. I found

this on soy.

" Avoid soy unless it is fermented or sprouted. Most soy is NOT a health

food. Although it has many beneficial properties, it also has digestive

enzymes inhibitors that will bind minerals. Fermented soy and soybean

sprouts will remove these items and allow the soy to be utilized. You

should avoid tofu, soy protein products, soy milk and ESPECIALLY soy

baby formula which is a disaster and should never be used for infants. "

I wonder if my sons digestive problems are due to the soy milk? . I now

have a very difficult choice for my 10 month old daugher. Soy or milk!

(Is it too late to get MY milk back?!) SIGH

June 3, 1999

Cathi,

Yes the soy info was on the Mercola site.

I am going to call LLL. I tried yesterday but could not find their

number in the phone book or callng information. I thought that was odd!

Yes it is such a dilemma. I wish I had learned all this info before. I

was a 30 year old workaholic afraid to have kids. Look at me now......

a stay at home mom totally in love and devoted to my kds. My life sure

changed for the better!

June 3, 1999

In a message dated 6/2/99 8:56:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Cvroth@...

writes:

> First off, are there organic brands of cow's milk-based formulas? If not,

I

>

> would be HUGELY concerned with the growth hormones, steroids and

antibiotics

>

> that our dairy cattle are fed. For some more info, try www.mercola.com -

> he's got a link on why we shouldn't drink milk.

>

> Second, this statement has always stayed with me " the only reason to drink

> cow's milk is to turn a calf into a 600 lb cow in 6 months. " Of course,

> this

> is geared towards why we, in general, should not drink cow's milk.

> Obviously

> up to 2 years of age, fat content is of NO concern to a child. Perhaps

it

> doesn't apply in this discussion?

>

> Third, as it relates to the soybean not being a real milk - if you want to

> dissect that, a true milk in that sense would mean from a lactating

animal.

>

> And a lactating animal is meant to nurse her young. Would you consider

> drinking monkey milk or pig's milk? I'm not sure I follow the difference

> there. So soy milk is made from soybeans, if it is good for you and there

> are added nutrients (just as there would be to cow's milk formula), why

not?

>

> I don't mean to be confrontational on this - I am truly interested in why

> soy

> milk would not be good for a child in terms other than it not being a

" real "

>

> milk?

>

> Thanks for any insight!

>

> Cathi

>

Don't worry about being confrontational. I agree that cow's milk formulas

have all the drawbacks you mention. However, I think infants need

nourishment from an animal source. Preferably, the same species (human) as

the infant. If this is not possible, than you must settle for what else is

available.

The fat content of cow's milk is not what makes the calfs grow so big. The

fat content of human milk is similair (percentage).

As far as your mention of monkey milk, I would find it preferable to cow's

milk since monkeys are much closer to humans. However, after infancy I think

human, like all other animals were meant to drink only WATER! Nothing else.

I did not say that soy milk is not good for kids. Only that it is not best

for INFANTS, who need real MILK. Notice that soy milk containers do not

mention the word MILK, because they are not. Also large quantities of it for

adults or kids is not so great.

Take care.

Cory

June 5, 1999

Here's a whole lot of links on relaction - that is getting your milk back.

http://www.fourfriends.com/abrw/

http://www.lalecheleague.org/bfadopt.html

http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/FAQadopt.html

http://www.erols.com/cindyrn/drjack0.htm

http://www.prismnet.com/~naomi/abrw/

http://www.enscript.com/pump/

http://www.surrogacy.com/medres/article/lac.html

http://www.pathfinder.com/ParentTime/Growing/alatest.html

http://www.pathfinder.com/ParentTime/Growing/nursadb.html

http://www.who.dk/tech/nutemg.htm

http://www.medela.com/solutions/adoptfaq.htm

http://www.lact-aid.com/la_links.htm#Adoptive Nursing

http://lact-aid.com/faqad001.html

http://lact-aid.com/onlinepubs.htm

http://www.tcbs.com/pers/abnis.htm

http://www.phillynews.com/sunmag/712/feature2.shtml

http://www.bodyprofile.com/bf-adopted-education.html

http://www.storknet.org/cubbies/breast/relac.htm

http://www.who.dk/tech/nutemg.htm

http://rainforest.parentsplace.com/dialog/get/newadoptionandnursing.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/3490/low-supply.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/3490/herbal-rem.html

http://www.parentsplace.com/readroom/articles/syndrome.html

>From: Cvroth@...

>

>In a message dated 6/2/99 3:42:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>JSUENICK@... writes:

>

><< (Is it too late to get MY milk back?!) SIGH

>

> >>

>

>Maybe that's not as far-fetched as it sounds? I know that they have ways

to

>enable adoptive moms to breastfeed.... If you are really interested, it

>might be worth contacting LLL to see?

>

>Did you find the soy info at mercola too? I didn't notice it. Perhaps

that

>is what I was remembering (vaguely) as the " negative " soy info. Such a

>dilemma....

>

>Cathi

>

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June 5, 1999

Thanks to everyone for their tips and advice on relaction. Right now I

am working on my husbands support.

June 7, 1999

-

Why don't you try goat milk? My daughter was supplemented with it since

she was TWO WEEKS old. This is now the only type of milk she drinks.

It definately provides more nutrients than soy. The nutrients it

misses, as I posted before the only one I have heard it lacks is Iron,

can be supplemented if necessary. It comes in powder form (like

formula), aesept containers, evaporated or just like regular milk in the

dairy case. Soy or regular milk are not the ONLY choices. Just my

thoughts. Goat milk is not perfect but it IS closer to human breastmilk

according to my naturopathic dr then Cow milk and more nutritious then

soy. My daughter had serious colic problems (I believe as a result of a

vaccine) formula, soy, etc. etc. caused more gas, etc. Goat milk she

digested very easily.

in CT

" A. " wrote:

>

> From: JSUENICK@... ( A.)

>

> Well......I just went into the

> http://www.mercola.com

> site. He does have a link on milk, explaining how bad it is. I found

> this on soy.

>

> " Avoid soy unless it is fermented or sprouted. Most soy is NOT a health

> food. Although it has many beneficial properties, it also has digestive

> enzymes inhibitors that will bind minerals. Fermented soy and soybean

> sprouts will remove these items and allow the soy to be utilized. You

> should avoid tofu, soy protein products, soy milk and ESPECIALLY soy

> baby formula which is a disaster and should never be used for infants. "

>

> I wonder if my sons digestive problems are due to the soy milk? . I now

> have a very difficult choice for my 10 month old daugher. Soy or milk!

> (Is it too late to get MY milk back?!) SIGH

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Give back to your community through " Grow to Give. "

>

> Deadline is June 19. See homepage for details.

--

@...

***************************************************************

We Must Have The Freedom To Choose & Respect Everyone's Choice

***************************************************************

Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical

OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you

implement that decision is yours and yours alone.

June 7, 1999

,

I've not seen powdered goats milk before. Is that common? My dd is 11

months old and I'm still breastfeeding but on occasion (mostly on car trips)

I have given her formula or diluted fruit juice. I've gotten myself into a

situation that she really wants that bottle in the car now. I would love to

find a healthy/convenient alternative such as powered goats milk. I really

disliked pumping is why she has not gotten that. I know this is a bit off

subject but I would love any suggestions.

Thanks

Celeste

Re: Soymilk is not really " milk "

>From: Reiss <lisa@...>

>

>-

>Why don't you try goat milk? My daughter was supplemented with it since

>she was TWO WEEKS old. This is now the only type of milk she drinks.

>It definately provides more nutrients than soy. The nutrients it

>misses, as I posted before the only one I have heard it lacks is Iron,

>can be supplemented if necessary. It comes in powder form (like

>formula), aesept containers, evaporated or just like regular milk in the

>dairy case. Soy or regular milk are not the ONLY choices. Just my

>thoughts. Goat milk is not perfect but it IS closer to human breastmilk

>according to my naturopathic dr then Cow milk and more nutritious then

>soy. My daughter had serious colic problems (I believe as a result of a

>vaccine) formula, soy, etc. etc. caused more gas, etc. Goat milk she

>digested very easily.

> in CT

>

> " A. " wrote:

>>

>> From: JSUENICK@... ( A.)

>>

>> Well......I just went into the

>> http://www.mercola.com

>> site. He does have a link on milk, explaining how bad it is. I found

>> this on soy.

>>

>> " Avoid soy unless it is fermented or sprouted. Most soy is NOT a health

>> food. Although it has many beneficial properties, it also has digestive

>> enzymes inhibitors that will bind minerals. Fermented soy and soybean

>> sprouts will remove these items and allow the soy to be utilized. You

>> should avoid tofu, soy protein products, soy milk and ESPECIALLY soy

>> baby formula which is a disaster and should never be used for infants. "

>>

>> I wonder if my sons digestive problems are due to the soy milk? . I now

>> have a very difficult choice for my 10 month old daugher. Soy or milk!

>> (Is it too late to get MY milk back?!) SIGH

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Give back to your community through " Grow to Give. "

>>

>> Deadline is June 19. See homepage for details.

>

>--

>@...

>***************************************************************

>We Must Have The Freedom To Choose & Respect Everyone's Choice

>***************************************************************

>Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical

>OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you

>implement that decision is yours and yours alone.

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Have you entered ONElist's " Grow to Give " program?

>

>Deadline is June 19. Join now to win $5000 for your charity of choice.

>

June 8, 1999

if you really want to know the truth about milk and goats milk it should be

consumed raw. we moved from south florida to a mini farm and just bought a

dairy goat for my grandson to have goat's milk. he drinks it raw one day

old. pasteurization and heating of anything that is raw kills the enzymes

once it starts going above 107 degrees. this means veggies too. rhoda