Guest guest Posted April 2, 1999 Report Share Posted April 2, 1999 Anyone who wants to avoid any standard procedure MUST have a signed birth plan on file at the hospital. The hospital and doctor don't have to agree 100% with it, but they should be aware of it. Cory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 1999 Report Share Posted April 2, 1999 Great information. Unfortunately, my doctor (OB) and hospital would not accept one. They were concerned about flexibility. After being knocked out with a headache from hell for 4 1/2 hours of my labor (from medication that was just suppose to " take the edge off the cramps " ), ending up with an epidural, etc, etc. it is now clear why they did not want a birth plan in writing. Next time, the whole experience will be different and I will definately TRUST my instinct. God did not make moms or dads dumb, even for their first child. Next time, I will be much more inquisitive, insistant about what we want and if we don't get our way....Life will be VERY difficult for them. This list is great with the information and support. You just have to wonder if everyone on this list populated one town...how many colds, flu, cancer,ADD, etc, would there be? Cmermer@... wrote: > > From: Cmermer@... > > Anyone who wants to avoid any standard procedure MUST have a signed birth > plan on file at the hospital. The hospital and doctor don't have to agree > 100% with it, but they should be aware of it. > > Cory > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We have a new web site! > > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 1999 Report Share Posted April 2, 1999 In a message dated 99-04-02 17:44:20 EST, you write: > From: Reiss <lisa@...> > > Great information. Unfortunately, my doctor (OB) and hospital would not > accept one. They were concerned about flexibility. That is outrageous!! The birth plan is yours and nobody has to " accept it " . Our MD had no problem but one of his partners wasn't wild about it. Why would you stay with a MD who did not want to respect yor wishes. As long as he has a signed copy, it should relieve him of any liability in case something happens. As far as the hospiatal goes, they can't do ANYTHING without your consent. It is also a good idea to follow all special requests with " unless medically contraindicated " . Cory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 1999 Report Share Posted April 3, 1999 Cmermer@... wrote: > From: Cmermer@... > > In a message dated 99-04-02 17:44:20 EST, you write: > > It is also a good idea to follow all special requests > with " unless medically contraindicated " . > > Cory > What's the point of having a birth plan if you're going to use the phrase " unless medically contraindicated " ? Doesn't this put every decision right back into the hands of the medical facility, physician, etc.? My experience with physicians is that their perception is such that every procedure regularly performed has medical significance, making any deviation from their normal practices fall into this category. For instance, we refused the IV for several reasons, and had I used this phrase in my birth plan I feel certain that the doctor would have taken the opportunity to tell me that because my blood pressure was elevated when I was admitted to Labor and Delivery, that there was a medical contraindication for not having the IV, and I would have been immediately plugged up. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 1999 Report Share Posted April 3, 1999 I did not change doctors because of a medical history from when I was born. I was afraid of having my baby be born outside a hospital. My daughter was born in a hospital with a neonatal unit, just in case. Unfortunately, it was my first child and I did not fully understand all the aspects of birth (ie. right to refuse treatment, vaccines, vit K, eyedrops, etc etc,). nor what really happened at my birth until it was almost time for my daughter to be born. As someone said, Knowledge is power and as I said before the next child/dr/pediatrician/birth experience will be different. In regard to saying unless it is " medically contraindicated " I'd like to share a recent experience. As many of you know I have been desperately looking for a MD. One of the pediatrician's I spoke with recently said he had never had parents who completely refused vaccines. He said he wanted her to get HiB. I explained she is not in daycare, almost 15 months old, it is now spring, blah, blah. He agreed. Then he said she needed the measles shot. I briefly explained that there is a family history of allergies to eggs, (my husband, myself, my mom, my sister, and my grandmother all allergic) and that as far as I understood that an allergy to eggs was a contraindication to getting the measles shot.....Get this...this was his response....Well, that is true but I have spoken with many allergists across the US (yeah right) and according to them this contraindication is not really warranted because it is such a small amount. I then explained my daughter's family history re: eggs. Guess what his response was....Well, she can always receive the measles vaccine in a hospital just in case she has a reaction! Am I the only one that had a brain in that conversation? I told him she was not getting the vaccine and that we are not going to risk my daughter's life. That if she got measles then she would pull through just fine. My suggestion is simply write that every procedure must get prior approval from the parent. Of course, they will find some way around it... Tammy Pritchard wrote: > > From: noshots@... (Tammy Pritchard) > > Cmermer@... wrote: > > > From: Cmermer@... > > > > In a message dated 99-04-02 17:44:20 EST, you write: > > > > It is also a good idea to follow all special requests > > with " unless medically contraindicated " . > > > > Cory > > > > What's the point of having a birth plan if you're going to use the phrase > " unless medically contraindicated " ? Doesn't this put every decision right back > into the hands of the medical facility, physician, etc.? My experience with > physicians is that their perception is such that every procedure regularly > performed has medical significance, making any deviation from their normal > practices fall into this category. For instance, we refused the IV for several > reasons, and had I used this phrase in my birth plan I feel certain that the > doctor would have taken the opportunity to tell me that because my blood > pressure was elevated when I was admitted to Labor and Delivery, that there was > a medical contraindication for not having the IV, and I would have been > immediately plugged up. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? > Tammy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site! > > Onelist: ing connections and information exchange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 1999 Report Share Posted April 3, 1999 I am still gettign used to this one list thing and I wrote to 'Kerin' thinking it was her. Sorry to single you out. the birth plan thing is Tricky. In the States I htnk it is an important communication tool for the woman/ family and care givers. I am not sure how it works in the States ( been here four years) but research has proven that knowing your caregiver the same caregiver for the whole experience has better outcomes. My suggestion ( and excuse ignorance if I don't get somethings right) is if you are plannig a hosptial birth then research the hospital take tours, ask about 'protocols' and routine procedures and your right to refuse. The routine pocedures should be medicly indicated.i.e IV., walking aroung in labour useing the spa, shoower, and the 'monitor' is it continuous or intermittent. ASk WHY if you are unsure. Continuous has replaced human monitoring. I stay with a women the entire labor checking her baby through out no matter what position and where she is. I we need a monitor then it is because her babe needs to be watched closely. Like I said I am not sure how it works 'back home' but it is really hard if you have different 'caregivers' throughout. There is miscommunnication and bullying. Labor is not the time to negotiate. Woman are vulnerable and the the babies 'saftety' is sometimes used as a tool to bully women. Make sure your caregiver has your best interest in mind. YOu are the consumer..literally. IN New ZEaland maternity care is paid for except if you choose a specialist. If you need a specialist that too is free and you always have a midwife. Ideally the same one through out. I only saw the one women up till my six week check. Even her the system is not ideal and the politics are are hairy but women have a choice. Ask about all aspects of the birth. Freedom to choose your birthingpositon etc. What are there episiotomy rates. There is no way to tell if a women needs an episotomy before the actual birth. if they say 'ALL FIRST MOMS GET THEM' or IF YOU HAD ONE BEFORE.... then you need to ask why and maybe think of birthig somewhere else. Ask about the care after the babe is born cord cutting? That is all part of third stage. If they activly manage third stage or let it happen naturaly. I tgets really tricky. I wish all women had midiwves and or carers who trusted womens bodies adn wanted to empower the women. I hope this helped. From a cargivers perspective Birthplans can be a pain' if the women says I DON " T WANT THIS AND THIS AND THIS!!! It is impossible to know how things will be. Use it as a tool to understand protocols and practice procedures and gt to know you caregiver. If its your OB then get to know them and ask why if you don't understand. Blah blah. I actulayy wrote an 2000 word essay on the subject when i was getting my degree. it can complicated but it is used diffferntly in this part of the world. Lots of litigation in the states. ---------- > From: Tammy Pritchard <noshots@...> > Vaccinationsonelist > Subject: Re: birth plan > Date: Sunday, 4 April 1999 02:00 > > From: noshots@... (Tammy Pritchard) > > > > Cmermer@... wrote: > > > From: Cmermer@... > > > > In a message dated 99-04-02 17:44:20 EST, you write: > > > > It is also a good idea to follow all special requests > > with " unless medically contraindicated " . > > > > Cory > > > > What's the point of having a birth plan if you're going to use the phrase > " unless medically contraindicated " ? Doesn't this put every decision right back > into the hands of the medical facility, physician, etc.? My experience with > physicians is that their perception is such that every procedure regularly > performed has medical significance, making any deviation from their normal > practices fall into this category. For instance, we refused the IV for several > reasons, and had I used this phrase in my birth plan I feel certain that the > doctor would have taken the opportunity to tell me that because my blood > pressure was elevated when I was admitted to Labor and Delivery, that there was > a medical contraindication for not having the IV, and I would have been > immediately plugged up. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? > Tammy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site! > > Onelist: ing connections and information exchange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 1999 Report Share Posted April 3, 1999 In a message dated 99-04-03 11:12:51 EST, you write: > From: Reiss <lisa@...> > > I did not change doctors because of a medical history from when I was > born. I was afraid of having my baby be born outside a hospital. Nobody said anything about not giving birth in a hospital. A birth plan is much more important in a hospital birth due to all the interventions. Cory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 1999 Report Share Posted April 3, 1999 In a message dated 99-04-03 08:59:23 EST, you write: > What's the point of having a birth plan if you're going to use the phrase > " unless medically contraindicated " ? Doesn't this put every decision right > back > into the hands of the medical facility, physician, etc.? My experience with > physicians is that their perception is such that every procedure regularly > performed has medical significance, making any deviation from their normal > practices fall into this category. For instance, we refused the IV for > several > reasons, and had I used this phrase in my birth plan I feel certain that the > doctor would have taken the opportunity to tell me that because my blood > pressure was elevated when I was admitted to Labor and Delivery, that there > was > a medical contraindication for not having the IV, and I would have been > immediately plugged up. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? > Tammy > You apparently had a doctor you could not trust to follow your wishes, yet you trusted him to bring your son or daughter into this world, as well as with both of your lives. There has to be a lot of discussion between you and the docs (both OB/GYN and pediatrician) before you deliver. If we didn't trust ours pretty well, we would have gotten another one. In addition, we had many discussions, as well as written communication with the hospital about our birth plan. It is important to find out from your doctor who the proper person to speak to at the hospital is. We never really trusted the hospital in the same way we trusted our doctor, but they did begrudgingly agree to everything we wanted, as long as they had a copy of our signed birth plan and we signed special waivers for anything that was mandated by the state (vit k and eye drops). The part about " " unless medically contraindicated " was suggested to me by someone who was very experienced with these types of situations. She said that without it, most doctors will not agree to sign or follow it. Although it could concievably be used against you, it never was with us or anyone else I know of. With your example of the IV,you always have the right to refuse anything you don't want. I would be more concerned about what is done to the baby when they take her away (or try to) since she can't speak up for herself. Having your doctor back you up makes every thing much easier. The hospital never pressured us to do anything we didn't want to do. Of course, some of the staff was still obnoxious, but they're probaly that way with everyone Cory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 1999 Report Share Posted April 3, 1999 Re: birth plan >From: Cmermer@... > >In a message dated 99-04-03 08:59:23 EST, you write: > >> What's the point of having a birth plan if you're going to use the phrase >> " unless medically contraindicated " ? Doesn't this put every decision right >> back >> into the hands of the medical facility, physician, etc.? My experience with >> physicians is that their perception is such that every procedure regularly >> performed has medical significance, making any deviation from their normal >> practices fall into this category. Besides needing a doctor you can trust, I think you need to make sure that you are at least somewhat like minded. A doctor who has always gives episiotomies I'm sure thinks they are always needed. I didn\t refuse drops (didn't know about them) but I did want as natural a delivery as possible. The second time around, that's what I had. The first time I was induced (35 hours of decent contractions after my water broke and NOTHING seemed to be happening), I was on the monitor steadily, with an IV and 2-3 doses of antibiotics, plus a massive episiotomy when my son decided to come into the world face first. All of these things were discussed with me in detail and I made the decisions (except for the episiotomy, which I feel saved my son a bruise or 2, certainly worth it to me). I felt very good about the whole experience both times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 1999 Report Share Posted April 5, 1999 RE VitK and research: Would like to read the research article and learn a bit more. Sounds pretty scary doing such invasive procedures on tiny babes. Re IV: In a nut shell: Everybody feels different about them. Comming form a perspective that pregnancy and birth are not illnesses ...then why t he IV? Unless indicated IV's are invasive, limits movements and are annoying and can be painful especially if the clinician has made several attempts at cannulating. On a psycological level it may make the women feel more like a patient and this goes into a whole bunch of power dynamics that exists with in the instituion already. I have attended many births where an IV was indicated and highly recommended. It comes down to personal choice? How did you feel when you had one in? I am from NYC and if I was still there when my dd was born I would SERIOUSLY look into a birthing center. The Maternity Center is famous and been around for YONKS. I volunteered there about six years ago before I left. Pretty cool place. Re: Demerol @ 10cm???? Interesting. I don't know the whole story but first I want to say WELL DONE for getting to 10cm. HOw and why it was offered when you were fully dilated seems a bit odd unless you asked for relief which is totally undestandable. Perhaps a bath or gas would of been more suitable because your babes birthdate was comming soon. Narcotic analgesics do cross the placenta. How much time passed from receiving the drug and the birth? Sorry it is so rough in NYC. that is why I left, to become a midwife. Good luck hope this helped. ---------- > From: Alba <alicia@...> > Vaccinationsonelist > Subject: Birth Plan > Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999 04:02 > > From: Alba <alicia@...> > > Hi-- > > > I would like to make a comment on having a birthing plan and not being able > to trust you OB. When I got pregnant I had a very hard time even finding > ab OB/GYN. I could not find an OB/GYN in my insurance plan was taking my > insurance anymore or they were not accepting any new patients. And Mdwives > were not even covered in my plan unfortunately . This is in NYC so I can > imagine if you live in a more rural environment that there may not be as > many options available. > > When I finally found a Dr I was already a couple of months pregnant. I was > hoping that I could establish a good relatinship, so I would feel more > relaxed during my labor. But i felt like I should go to the hospital at > the last possible second so I would not be tempted by having in > unneccessary medical intervention. Unfortunately I did not wait long > enough and I was given demoral at 10 cm when I was completely on schedule > for a normal delivery. I felt like I was kind of talked into it. When I > really did nto want it. I now think that this could have caused some kind > of birth trauma to my son and the DPaT vaccine out him over the edge. > > > Rocky's MOM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 1999 Report Share Posted April 5, 1999 In a message dated 99-04-05 00:04:14 EDT, you write: > And Mdwives > were not even covered in my plan unfortunately . I think it is illegal to not cover midwives. A NY midwife told me this. Did you call the insurance co and ask? Where in NY are you? Cory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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