Re: How does one become a named patient for natural dessicated thyroid?

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky,

The way to phrase the question is:-

Can you prescribe a thyroid hormone tablet that represents the correct

physiological composition approximating either human or a close mammalian

(analogue) physiology?

Levothyrosine is precisely the wrong composition ~ it contains absolutely no

tri-iodothyronine whatsoever.

Prescribing the wrong hormone is both immoral and illegal since it is an attack

on your autonomy to have prescribed a medication that you need and cannot live

without.

Furthermore, the prescribing of the wrong medication against your wishes is an

assault upon you (the patient), and a battery if it causes you not to recover

your good health....

best wishes

Bob

>

> Please can anyone tell me whether, or not, one has a right to request natural

dessicated thyroid rather than Levothyroxin within the NHS? Does one have to

demonstrate that Levothyroxin cannot be tolerated, or that one is unable to

convert T4 to T3? Is there any allowance for personal preferences?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Vicky H

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky - yes, you certainly DO have a right to request a trial

of natural desiccated thyroid extract, especially when levothyroxine is not

giving you back your normal health. Thyroxine is only 1 hormone and this

hormone is mainly inactive. It has to convert to the active hormone

Triiodothyronine (T3) for your body and brain to function. Without T3 you die.

Before levothyroxine was manufactured and came into use, the ONLY treatment within

the NHS for ALL sufferers of hypothyroidism was natural desiccated thyroid

extract and this was used safely and effectively for over 50 years. It has now

been used safely and effectively for well over 100 years and is the best and

most natural thyroid hormone replacement you could take.

Doctors will argue that it has had potency problems in the past,

or that the T4 and T3 cannot be standardised in every batch - and therefore

could be dangerous. This is a load of twaddle. However, you may need to

convince an uneducated doctor on the true facts.

Read the response I wrote to the British Thyroid Association's

Statements on Armour Thyroid and on Synthetic T3 (Liothyronine) Therapy http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/tpa_responds1.php.

Their statements are both misleading, and in parts, downright incorrect.

I have asked them to amend their Statements, but they don't even acknowledge

receipt of my responses, or acknowledge the medical/scientific evidence that I

cited.

Sadly, persuading doctors to prescribe thyroid extract can be

hard work - they know that other doctors who work outside the RCP, BTA

guidelines have been reported to the GMC for daring to do this - and they will

not run the risk of losing their career and livelihood - so will only prescribe

you the mainly inactive hormone thyroxine.

Some can be persuaded, some have been persuaded, and there are

some brave doctors who have found their patients do much better on thyroid

extract - and like my endocrinologist, have carried on recommending it for many

of their patients.

TPA is about persuading the NHS to change its present diagnostic

and treatment protocol - but we know the fight will be difficult.

The NHS doctors will recommend testing for Free T3 and Free T4,

but it seems the NHSD laboratories have been told by the powers that be NOT to

test for these if the TSH is within the normal reference range. If they don't

test your free T3, then they cannot tell you that your level is low. It is only

be checking your free T3 level that would show whether you are converting or

not. The only thing to do is to get your T3 tested elsewhere, and demand that

the NHS doctors acknowledge your results. It can be done, but you need to be

assertive and let your doctors know you will not accept T4 only. All patients

should be allowed a CHOICE of treatment, but the RCP and BTA are doing

everything they can to take that choice away.

Just to end on a light note - I had an endocrinologist who

refused to prescribe Armour Thyroid for me, for the usual WRONG reasons. I did

my research, gave it to him, asked him to read it, and he then called me in to

tell me he had read everything, and that he would now recommend Armour for me. That

was 7 years ago. That was the start, and other endocrinologists in this area

(West Yorkshire) have also taken thyroid extract on board and are recommending

it for their patients too. This is the reason I opened TPA knowing that as I

had persuaded just one endo. to change his prescribing habits, I could

hopefully persuade others to do this too.

We are getting there, but very slowly.

Luv - Sheila

Please can anyone tell me whether, or not, one

has a right to request natural dessicated thyroid rather than Levothyroxin

within the NHS? Does one have to demonstrate that Levothyroxin cannot be

tolerated, or that one is unable to convert T4 to T3? Is there any allowance

for personal preferences?

Thanks,

Vicky H

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2815 - Release Date: 04/16/10

18:31:00

[Guest guest]

Well said Bob - Thank you.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Vicky,

The way to phrase the question is:-

Can you prescribe a thyroid hormone tablet that represents the correct

physiological composition approximating either human or a close mammalian

(analogue) physiology?

Levothyrosine is precisely the wrong composition ~ it contains absolutely no

tri-iodothyronine whatsoever.

Prescribing the wrong hormone is both immoral and illegal since it is an attack

on your autonomy to have prescribed a medication that you need and cannot live

without.

Furthermore, the prescribing of the wrong medication against your wishes is an

assault upon you (the patient), and a battery if it causes you not to recover

your good health....

best wishes

Bob

>

> Please can anyone tell me whether, or not, one has a right to request

natural dessicated thyroid rather than Levothyroxin within the NHS? Does one

have to demonstrate that Levothyroxin cannot be tolerated, or that one is

unable to convert T4 to T3? Is there any allowance for personal preferences?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Vicky H

>

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2815 - Release Date: 04/16/10

18:31:00

[Guest guest]

hi Bob,

You made me laugh! I am not sure whether I would win out on this basis - I need

to know whether I have a right to have my request accepted or whether i have to

argue a medical case for it (I might be able to do this on the basis of aches

and pains that could be attributed to possible T4-T3 conversion problems...) My

GP is actually vey willing and helpful, but young and probably has limited

ability to step outside the practice protocols which will be determined to some

degree by the senior practitioners there as well as by NHS guidelines. [i agree

with your sentiments - I just need to find a way of putting things that is

likely to be productive without getting anyones back up...having a reasonable

relationship with my GP is important for me and I am very lucky to have one that

does listen to me, albeit that she is constrained somewhat by " the system " , like

most GPs.]

If I do try this, I am not sure which natural dessicated thyroid product is most

likely to be both suitable and prescribable within the NHS - I haven't managed

to work out the current status quo with regard to Armour ... any ideas

Vicky

>

> Hi Vicky,

>

> The way to phrase the question is:-

>

> Can you prescribe a thyroid hormone tablet that represents the correct

physiological composition approximating either human or a close mammalian

(analogue) physiology?

>

> Levothyrosine is precisely the wrong composition ~ it contains absolutely no

tri-iodothyronine whatsoever.

>

> Prescribing the wrong hormone is both immoral and illegal since it is an

attack on your autonomy to have prescribed a medication that you need and cannot

live without.

>

> Furthermore, the prescribing of the wrong medication against your wishes is an

assault upon you (the patient), and a battery if it causes you not to recover

your good health....

>

>

> best wishes

> Bob

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I think the medical profession knows precisely how it has attained their

position of misguided trust.

They know where the ice is so thin that they will fall through, eventually.

You cannot jam drugs down a patient's unwilling throat...it is illegal.

Non-consenting adults of full decision-making capacity have a basic right to

refuse the wrong medication even if the doctor tries to persuade you that it is

the right medication.

If a doctor tries to persuade you that there is a protocol to follow, there is

also a court of law to protect you from bad medicine. More importantly, the

Humand Rigts Act either means that you retain autonomy over your own body or it

does not, it cannot have it both ways.

The Human Rights Act is a half-hearted attempt to avoid giving the individual

the rights guaranteed under both the European Convention on Human Rights and

indeed the United Nations equivalent the Declaration on Human Rights which we

ratified and is in force ~ an International Treaty obligation....not empty

words.

all b.....cks? as Tony Blair's press spokesman would say.

best wishes

Bob

>

> Well said Bob - Thank you.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

> Hi Vicky,

>

> The way to phrase the question is:-

>

> Can you prescribe a thyroid hormone tablet that represents the correct

> physiological composition approximating either human or a close mammalian

> (analogue) physiology?

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sheila, this is a very comprehensive reply and is much as I imagined.

Given the witch hunt currently being conducted against practitioners who

prescribe armour, it seems a little hard to expect anyone to prescribe it for

me.

I think that you are right to say I should get a test done to see if I am

converting T4 to T3. I am somewhat concerned however that i have just stopped

the Levo and started Nutri adrenal extra ... . Perhaps I should stop this,

return to Levothyroxine and get a T4-T3 conversion test done - seems to me that

the more I try to resolve the problem by supplements etc the less likely I am to

eventually arrive at a situation where the NHS is funding appropriate medication

that i am likely to need in the longer term.

I have been struggling to see if I could afford to see someone privately and at

the moment I cannot see how. It is not just the cost of one consultation as once

one follows that route there is no way of knowing how many tests they may want

to do and what additional consultations would be needed. It would be real

stretch for me to afford one consultation, without the unpredictable add ons of

lab test fees.

In terms of long term end results I need to get to an end point where costs of

prescriptions etc are met within the NHS and not privately, as I will in due

course be living solely on the state pension.

I am not clear whether my GP is duty bound to prescribe whatever is recommended

by another GP or Endo. I imagine, the NHS being as hierarchical as it is, that

they would be obliged to follow the recommendations of an NHS endo but not

necessarily to follow the recommendations of a private doctor .. I am not sure

about their responsibilities to accept the recommendations of a private endo

(many work privately and within the NHS).

Ideally I guess that I need to find an NHS endo who is known to prescribe Armour

by choice, but I have my doubts that they exist in the current climate!?

Unfortunately there is no way of telling (from your list) what kind of treatment

protocols the endos on the list tend to adopt. I wondered about Dr M. K. in

central london.....? I have done some internet browsing to see what I can find

out about individual practitioners, but the results are somewhat limited. (Sorry

I don't know how much I can say online!). Maybe I should come and see your endo!

I have the impression from other situations that it can sometimes be productive

to have at least one private appointment with an NHS specialist to create an

initial contact as sometimes this can later be followed through under the

NHS....where if one is referred initially through the NHS the results can

sometimes be profoundly different.

You can see how confused I am!

Vicky

>

> Hi Vicky - yes, you certainly DO have a right to request a trial of natural

> desiccated thyroid extract, especially when levothyroxine is not giving you

> back your normal health. Thyroxine is only 1 hormone and this hormone is

> mainly inactive. It has to convert to the active hormone Triiodothyronine

> (T3) for your body and brain to function. Without T3 you die.

>

[Guest guest]

Given the witch hunt currently being conducted

against practitioners who prescribe armour, it seems a little hard to expect

anyone to prescribe it for me.

Actually

Vicky, you might think that, but the fact is that I am seeing  more doctors

starting to break away from the BTA, RCP " guideline " and prescribe

either thyroid extract or synthetic T3 for their patients who don't do well on

levothyroxine. I do believe doctors are becoming more aware that the RCP has created a “guideline” that has not

put the interest of patients foremost and taken away the right for medical

practitioners to exercise their professional clinical judgement. According to

the Medicines and Healthcare Regulatory Agency (MHRA) Review of Unlicensed

Medicines, they make the point that: “Clinicians should

have the ability in appropriate circumstances to exercise their professional

judgement to commission the supply of an unlicensed medicine to meet the

special needs of an individual patient”.

I think that you are right to say I should get

a test done to see if I am converting T4 to T3. I am somewhat concerned however

that i have just stopped the Levo and started Nutri adrenal extra ... . Perhaps

I should stop this, return to Levothyroxine and get a T4-T3 conversion test

done - seems to me that the more I try to resolve the problem by supplements

etc the less likely I am to eventually arrive at a situation where the NHS is

funding appropriate medication that i am likely to need in the longer term.

          You should only stop the levothyroxine for 7 days when

starting Nutri Adrenal Extra. This is to give your adrenals a rest from trying

to help convert the T4 into T3 and allows them time to get boosted sufficiently

to take on this role again. Levothyroxine has a long half life of 7 days, but takes

up to 6 weeks to be fully utilised by the body. If your GP will test y our TSH

and Free T4, the only test you will need to get done is Free T3 and this will

cost you £17.00 using Lab21 http://www.lab21.com/healthcare/thyroid.php

.. If the lab test shows your free T3 is low, we can take it from there.

I have been struggling to see if I could afford to see someone privately and at

the moment I cannot see how. It is not just the cost of one consultation as

once one follows that route there is no way of knowing how many tests they may

want to do and what additional consultations would be needed. It would be real

stretch for me to afford one consultation, without the unpredictable add ons of

lab test fees.

Often, with doctors such as Dr Peatfield, you only need to see him

for an initial consultation, as you can have up to three follow up telephone conversations

and he gives you a diary which you keep and send to him at 6 weekly intervals.

He then recommends the medication he feels you would benefit from, and it is up

to you whether you can persuade your medical practitioner to prescribe. There

are many questionnaires you can complete or home tests you can do that do not

cost any money (see the information I posted to Bunny this morning about

adrenal fatigue). Also, we have negotiated with Genova Diagnostics and other

organisations to get excellent discounts on tests and supplements (i.e. 30% on

adrenal and thyroid supplements from Nutri Ltd).

In terms of long term end results I need to get

to an end point where costs of prescriptions etc are met within the NHS and not

privately, as I will in due course be living solely on the state pension.

The NHS will NOT treat adrenal fatigue, only 's disease.

You may have to hunt around to find a doctor that will give you the thyroid

hormone replacement you need. There ARE doctors out there, so keep on looking.

Post the area you live in the UK and who knows, we may well have a member who

comes from that area and who is able to recommend such a good doctor.

I am not clear whether my GP is duty bound to

prescribe whatever is recommended by another GP or Endo. I imagine, the NHS

being as hierarchical as it is, that they would be obliged to follow the

recommendations of an NHS endo but not necessarily to follow the

recommendations of a private doctor .. I am not sure about their

responsibilities to accept the recommendations of a private endo (many work

privately and within the NHS).

See my first response above. Doctors are NOT duty bound to

prescribe whatever is recommended by another GP or Endo. Because of the RCP, BTA

et al Statement on the Diagnosis and Management of Primary Hypothyroidism, many

GP's are afraid they will be reported to the GMC if they dare to prescribe

either synthetic T3 or natural thyroid extract. A matter of fact is that NO

DOCTOR HAS EVER BEEN REPORTED TO THE GMC FOR PRESCRIBING EITHER - a point you

might need to get over to your doctor if this is one of his/her concerns. If a

doctor decides that you should be seen by a specialist, then usually, they

follow that specialists recommendations. However, if it is you that has pressed

for such a referral, it is up to a GP whether he takes on board that Specialists

recommendations. However, always remember that you, the patient, have a right

to a choice of treatments. You have a basic right to refuse what you

consider to be a wrong medication, which levothyroxine is, for a large minority

of sufferers of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Ideally I guess that I need to find an NHS endo who is known to prescribe

Armour by choice, but I have my doubts that they exist in the current climate!?

They DO exist - this is why I sent you my list of doctors and I

have written NHS against those I know who work within the NHS.

Unfortunately there is no way of telling (from

your list) what kind of treatment protocols the endos on the list tend to

adopt. I wondered about Dr M. K. in central london.....? I have done some

internet browsing to see what I can find out about individual practitioners,

but the results are somewhat limited. (Sorry I don't know how much I can say

online!). Maybe I should come and see your endo!

My list of doctors consists of those doctors who will prescribe

synthetic triiodothyronine (T3) alone, or in combination with levothyroxine.

Some of them also will prescribe natural thyroid extract - this is the whole

idea of this specific list. However, what I do not know is anything regarding

their bedside manner. That is something you will have to risk, if you wish to

be referred to any of them. Dr MK has an excellent reputation. If you see my

Endo. it will have to be through a private consultation. He is no longer taking

on any more NHS patients. However, you could always telephone his secretary to

find out.

I have the impression from other situations

that it can sometimes be productive to have at least one private appointment

with an NHS specialist to create an initial contact as sometimes this can later

be followed through under the NHS....where if one is referred initially through

the NHS the results can sometimes be profoundly different.

This is something you could try. The one thing I have learned

with all this business is that you have to be 100% positive and assertive if

you want to get anywhere. Fight the good fight - it really does work.

Luv - Sheila

You can see how confused I am!

Vicky

[Guest guest]

Hi vicky, This may not be quite what you want, but you may have a better chance of persuading you GP to prescribe T3 than Armour ( or other NDT) as to date no doc has been attacked by the GMC for prescribing it when the patienthad been diagnosed with hypo by TSH. Armour is currently available, but not in all sizes. > thyroid treatment > From: hobbsvic@...> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:29:04 +0000> Subject: Re: How does one become a "named patient" for natural dessicated thyroid?> > hi Bob,> > You made me laugh! I am not sure whether I would win out on this basis - I need to know whether I have a right to have my request accepted or whether i have to argue a medical case for it (I might be able to do this on the basis of aches and pains that could be attributed to possible T4-T3 conversion problems...) My GP is actually vey willing and helpful, but young and probably has limited ability to step outside the practice protocols which will be determined to some degree by the senior practitioners there as well as by NHS guidelines. [i agree with your sentiments - I just need to find a way of putting things that is likely to be productive without getting anyones back up...having a reasonable relationship with my GP is important for me and I am very lucky to have one that does listen to me, albeit that she is constrained somewhat by "the system", like most GPs.]> > If I do try this, I am not sure which natural dessicated thyroid product is most likely to be both suitable and prescribable within the NHS - I haven't managed to work out the current status quo with regard to Armour ... any ideas> > Vicky> > > >> > Hi Vicky,> > > > The way to phrase the question is:-> > > > Can you prescribe a thyroid hormone tablet that represents the correct physiological composition approximating either human or a close mammalian (analogue) physiology?> > > > Levothyrosine is precisely the wrong composition ~ it contains absolutely no tri-iodothyronine whatsoever.> > > > Prescribing the wrong hormone is both immoral and illegal since it is an attack on your autonomy to have prescribed a medication that you need and cannot live without.> > > > Furthermore, the prescribing of the wrong medication against your wishes is an assault upon you (the patient), and a battery if it causes you not to recover your good health....> > > > > > best wishes> > Bob> > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >