Re: How to cut the cost of crucial supplements?

[Guest guest]

Fiona This topic has been on my mind the last few days and I have been

wondering if there is a list somewhere that could tell us what can and cannot be

prescribed in terms of supplements anyway.

As to medications per se I would imagine the National Formulary would contain

all the relevant information for that side of things.

But surely there must be a document SOMEWHERE that we could access so that as

individual patients we do not have to go begging bowl in hand to individual and

v often unhelpful/ignorant GPs????

I get absolutely nothing from my GP, zilch, zero, nada...

It is a serious struggle to even get thyroid testing as they have disputed Dr

P's diagnosis from the off...

They are of absolutely no use to me and it would be good to find a way of being

able, at the v least, to get them to prescribe some of my many supplements.

But then they have little or no education in nutrition so how would they kn ow

what to p[rescribe and for what?

Mo

>

> Selenium is the only one I have ever been prescribed on the NHS. This saves me

a grand forune of £2.80 a month or something like that, so can the NHS spare it?

LOL

>

> I have Calcichew D3 Forte prescribed on the NHS.

>

> I recently calculated that the current cost of supplements is approx £53 a

month. Plus a hell of a lot of stuff to swallow.

>

> Adreno-Lyph-Plus 4 a day and that's the expensive one at approx £36. Dr P told

me to take this having had the saliva tests done you see.

>

> The rest are less expensive but collectively add up

>

> Co Q 10

> High dose Vit C 4 tablets a day to take 4000 as recommended in the past by Dr

P too.

> Iron one a day for now but I am aware to keep an eye on it, in case it's not

enough.

> Zinc

> Siberian Ginseng and Liquroce Tincture - from Nutri.

>

> I buy things from Natures Best and find them reasonable.

>

> If I make the assumption that all this is crucial for my long-term functioning

and there is nothing I can cut back on eg Adreno-Lyph-Plus or Vit C. For example

I know Vit C is important for the Iron and it's important to have an adrenal

supplement. So I assume there isn't anything I can reduce. Clearly to gain

benefit you have to take stuff on an ongoing basis, rather than some days and

not others or whatever.

>

> Dr Peatfield never suggested taking an alternative adrenal supplement, in

terms of needing anything stronger. Going off my history, I am more thyroid than

adrenal with my symptoms.

>

> Is there an alternative adrenal supplement that's cheaper? There's a Bio Care

manufacturer, but I don't know anything about it.

>

> I am wondering if there is a way of getting anything else on the NHS i.e. the

Vit C or CoQ10?

>

> Failing that, I wonder what other people do, to optimise their doses of

nutritional tablets in a more cost-effective way?

>

> I have learnt that unless your Feritin is out of range, you won't get Iron

prescribed, even if you are at the low end of the range. So as per my other

recent topic getting Iron on the NHS is a no no.

>

> This is why I want to get what I can on the NHS in terms of appropriate T4/T3

combination if possible because it's expensive enough as it is.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> From Fiona.

>

[Guest guest]

Have a look in our FILES section which you can access from this

forum Home Page, and click on the FOLDER ' DISCOUONTS' and you can see that we

get 33% discount from Nutri Ltd  and other discounts from other pharmacies,

including discounts on tests 9adrenal and thyroid) by Genova Diagnostics - you

have to be a TPA-UK member to get these discounts, so follow the instructions

carefully..

luv - Sheila

As you know I have recently been talking about

supplements and have been told to take Iron and Selenium.

Selenium is the only one I have ever been prescribed on the NHS. This saves me

a grand forune of £2.80 a month or something like that, so can the NHS spare

it? LOL

I have Calcichew D3 Forte prescribed on the NHS.

I recently calculated that the current cost of supplements is approx £53 a

month. Plus a hell of a lot of stuff to swallow.

Adreno-Lyph-Plus 4 a day and that's the expensive one at approx £36. Dr P told

me to take this having had the saliva tests done you see.

The rest are less expensive but collectively add up

Co Q 10

High dose Vit C 4 tablets a day to take 4000 as recommended in the past by Dr P

too.

Iron one a day for now but I am aware to keep an eye on it, in case it's not

enough.

Zinc

Siberian Ginseng and Liquroce Tincture - from Nutri.

I buy things from Natures Best and find them reasonable.

If I make the assumption that all this is crucial for my long-term functioning

and there is nothing I can cut back on eg Adreno-Lyph-Plus or Vit C. For

example I know Vit C is important for the Iron and it's important to have an

adrenal supplement. So I assume there isn't anything I can reduce. Clearly to

gain benefit you have to take stuff on an ongoing basis, rather than some days

and not others or whatever.

Dr Peatfield never suggested taking an alternative adrenal supplement, in terms

of needing anything stronger. Going off my history, I am more thyroid than

adrenal with my symptoms.

Is there an alternative adrenal supplement that's cheaper? There's a Bio Care

manufacturer, but I don't know anything about it.

I am wondering if there is a way of getting anything else on the NHS i.e. the

Vit C or CoQ10?

Failing that, I wonder what other people do, to optimise their doses of

nutritional tablets in a more cost-effective way?

I have learnt that unless your Feritin is out of range, you won't get Iron

prescribed, even if you are at the low end of the range. So as per my other

recent topic getting Iron on the NHS is a no no.

This is why I want to get what I can on the NHS in terms of appropriate T4/T3

combination if possible because it's expensive enough as it is.

Any thoughts?

From Fiona.

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19:35:00

[Guest guest]

Q10 is prescribably as Ubiquitone (I think thats right or upiqui- something!) but only for mitochondrial disorders - not sure what they mean by this but recent studies into fibromyalgia seem to be saying that it involves mitochondrial disorders so a specialist might be persuaded to prescribe it - doubt your common and garden GP concerned about his prescribing budget would though!

Vitamin D should be prescribable but this would depend on blood tests and many GPs wont be up to speed on this - people with darker skins will likely have more success with this as the evidence for deficiency is more well known for example in south asian populations.

Gill I am wondering if there is a way of getting anything else on the NHS i.e. the Vit C or CoQ10?

[Guest guest]

on the recommendation of Dr M, my daughter is prescribed by her GP, Q10 (she was

tested for mitochondria function) Vitamin B12 and magnesium injections, Creon

(Pancreatic digestive enzyme)Prednisolone and a sleeping tablet.

This certainly helps towards the cost of her supplements.

judy

>

> Q10 is prescribably as Ubiquitone (I think thats right or upiqui-

> something!) but only for mitochondrial disorders -

[Guest guest]

> Fiona This topic has been on my mind the last few days and I have been

wondering if there is a list somewhere that could tell us what can and cannot be

prescribed in terms of supplements anyway.

....

> But surely there must be a document SOMEWHERE that we could access so that as

individual patients we do not have to go begging bowl in hand to individual and

v often unhelpful/ignorant GPs????

> I get absolutely nothing from my GP, zilch, zero, nada...

> It is a serious struggle to even get thyroid testing as they have disputed Dr

P's diagnosis from the off...

> They are of absolutely no use to me and it would be good to find a way of

being able, at the v least, to get them to prescribe some of my many

supplements.

I figured it cannot be only me with this on my mind. To be honest I have an

appointment in March with DR W and am hoping that he will have a view on such

matters. Of course he's private and to do with ME/CFS but he is known for

writing to GPs to recommend certain things to be prescribed. At the end of the

day I am going to see what he makes of my situation generally and if there is

anything he can do that I have not done before.

I know where you are coming from with getting no help from the GPs so it would

be the least they can do to monitor my feritin and prescribe what they can if

it's possible in any way.

Apparently at my surgery they don't have " a magic wand " and I get a funny look

as they don't know what to do with me and wonder how it's possible to be as ill

as I was. So like you I have seen Dr P in the past and am currently trying to

challenge as much help off the NHS as possible. Basically going off the NHS

advice I went more and more ill every year, until I saw Dr P.

Fiona

[Guest guest]

> Q10 is prescribably as Ubiquitone (I think thats right or upiqui-

> something!) but only for mitochondrial disorders - not sure what they mean

> by this but recent studies into fibromyalgia seem to be saying that it

> involves mitochondrial disorders so a specialist might be persuaded to

> prescribe it - doubt your common and garden GP concerned about his

> prescribing budget would though!

>

This is one of the reasons why I have an appointment with DR W in March, so I

can get the Mitochondria ATP blood test. I am convinced there is an issue with

how I have a problem in producing energy in the body and how my muscles don't

adapt. So as I know this doctor can write to the GP and request that certain

things are prescribed, this is my only hope for Q10 on the NHS. I guess if I

don't ask I don't get.

To be fair the GP hapilly prescribed the Selenium that was recommended by the

consultant recently, so you never know. What surprised me with that was that the

pharmacy have had to fax a request as it's something not in stock. I am

wondering if it would be the same for Q10 that most people who take it, buy it

rather than have it prescribed.

I am sure from what you say Co Q 10 is the one to push for if possible.

I take Calcichew D3 Forte on the NHS, which as it's name suggests contains Vit D

which is good.

Fiona.

[Guest guest]

> on the recommendation of Dr M, my daughter is prescribed by her GP, Q10 (she

was tested for mitochondria function) Vitamin B12 and magnesium injections,

Creon (Pancreatic digestive enzyme)Prednisolone and a sleeping tablet.

>

> This certainly helps towards the cost of her supplements.

>

Thanks for reminding me about that Judy. It's interesting that there are two

people on TPA who say that you can get Q10 on the NHS. As I said in my other

posting, this is why I am making a Dr W appointment, so I can get ATP

mitochondria functioning test done and to get his thoughts about Feritin and to

see whatever else he makes of my situation. I think only with such tests do you

have a hope on the NHS of getting such supplements.

I don't stand a hope of B12 because it was mid range.

As you say about the Magnesium injections, that would have to be recommended by

somebody like Dr M or Dr W.

Cheers Fiona

[Guest guest]

> Have a look in our FILES section which you can access from this forum Home

> Page, and click on the FOLDER ' DISCOUONTS' and you can see that we get 33%

> discount from Nutri Ltd and other discounts from other pharmacies,

> including discounts on tests 9adrenal and thyroid) by Genova Diagnostics -

> you have to be a TPA-UK member to get these discounts, so follow the

> instructions carefully..

>

I have just had a look and done some briain taxing maths (not a strong point).

From what I gather there is a 10% off your nutrition shop but I don't see any

prices on the vega site.

However the way it's looking is that I get a better deal with Natures Best for

high dose vit C and Q10.

Having said that there was that alternative Iron that's non-constipating that I

may be interested in.

As for the fab 33% Believe it or not I don't take any of the following.

Nutri Thyroid (thyroid gland concentrate)

Nutri Thyroid (thyroid gland concentrate)

Thyro Complex (vits.mins.herbs)

Thyro Complex (vits.mins.herbs)

Nutri Adrenal (adrenal gland concentrate)

Nutri Adrenal Extra (high potency concentrate)

Nutri Adrenal Extra (high potency concentrate)

AdrenoMax (vits,mins,herbs)

It was Adreno-Lyph-Plus that Dr P told me to take, which costs me approx £36 a

month for 120 size because I take 4 daily. I have been getting this over the

phone from nutri west.

Making the assumption that this is the correct requirement for me, is there an

alternative from the above list? Am I right in assuming that the Nutri Adrenal

Extra is a stronger supplement than what I was told to take and therefore

probably not suitable?

What's the AdrenoMax please? Is this comparitive in contents?

Does anybody have a link so I can compare contents please?

Fiona

[Guest guest]

Excellento! Ta muchly

Mo

you will find the list you

> are looking for there.

>

> luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

I had a look there Sheila at a list of supplements - what I am looking for

specifically is THE list that GPs have telling them what they are allowed to

prescribe supplements-wise and what they are not.

Such a list would probably contain guidelines for max amounts etc?

Mo

> Hi Mo - go to www.tpa-uk.org.uk and click 'Hypothyroidism' and then in the

> drop down Menu, click 'Nutrition and Supplements' you will find the list you

> are looking for there.

>

> luv - Sheila

>

> Fiona This topic has been on my mind the last few days and I have been

> wondering if there is a list somewhere that could tell us what can and

> cannot be prescribed in terms of supplements anyway.

>

[Guest guest]

hi Gill,

I've sent you a private message. Let me know if you don't receive it.

Judy

>

> Hi Judy

>

> Id be interested to know what your daughter was diagnosed with and whether

> it was diagnosed by someone other than Dr M before she saw Dr M - please

> email me privately if you prefer. Im trying to figure out my answer which

> is why I ask and wonder if its CF or FMS ?

>

> thanks,

>

> Gill

>

[Guest guest]

Oh I see Gill, thank you, it is all of a piece then?

I was aware that pharmaceuticals would be contained therein but, for some

reason, I thought supps. would not be included.

Well we all know what thought did? Don't we? Well my old Ma used to say

" we all know what thought did, peed in the bed and thought he ws sweating "

That's my old Ma for you, she used to come out with the sweetest things

Mo

>

> Hi Mo - the list you are looking for is the British National Formulary -

> it is available on line at www.bnf.org and you can register free an

>

[Guest guest]

Why thank you Sheila, that is uncommonly decent of you

It would be such a help to have this info in advance of any of us approaching

our GPs for scripts.\\Mo

> I have an old BRF somewhere in the piles of books lying around here, I will

> see if I can find it and see what vits. minerals etc it shows they can

> prescribe.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

> I had a look there Sheila at a list of supplements - what I am looking for

> specifically is THE list that GPs have telling them what they are allowed to

> prescribe supplements-wise and what they are not.

> Such a list would probably contain guidelines for max amounts etc?

>

> Mo

>

[Guest guest]

>

> It's best to keep such a discussion on the forum Gill and Judy as we are all

> interested in this topic.

>

> Luv - Sheila

My daughter was diagnosed by one of our GP's first with post viral fatigue and

then Chronic fatigue. She was referred to the NHS CFS support service which was

basically 'resting and pacing', not much use when your body isn't functioning at

all.

She had tests with Red Apple which found intolerances to a lot of foods and

candida. She started taking supplements.

She then saw Dr P and he was right, he told me she was very ill. I'm sure we did

some tests with Dr P and she started on Nutri adrenal extra and Nutri thyroid.

Then HC and Armour. Along with Vit C and Co Q10.

Next she saw Dr M who was happy for her to stay on Armour and HC ( GP now

prescribes Prednisolone). Dr M recommended the Mitochondria test and the results

showed she is only functioning at less than 10%.

This resulted in Dr M writing a long report to a different GP from which the GP

prescribed as much as she could. Our GP has been very understanding and caring.

She agrees there are tests not yet available on the NHS which highlight the

causes of illness. She has actually heard Dr M speak on Chronic fatigue. A few

weeks ago she was taking to me about adrenal fatigue as she had read the article

in the newspaper.

I know the GP asked me for copies of all the tests we had had done as she had to

be able to justify way she was prescribing what she was.

As yet my daughter has seen an improvement. I do think she should have seen an

endo and a Neurologist before the GP diagnosed CFS. So would recommend that

approach first. I have been told the NHS can test for mitrochondria function but

I don't know how you would go about getting this done.

Judy

[Guest guest]

Sorry Sheila can you run that pass me again I'm not too sure what you are

recommending.

judy

>

You can get 33% on the Adreno Lymph

> Plus under Nutri Adrenal from Nutri Ltd. Nutri Adrenal is stronger than

> Nutri Adrenal and if you have low adrenal reserve, this is the one we

> usually recommend - for those people who find it too strong, we recommend

> the NE only.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2687 - Release Date: 02/14/10

> 07:35:00

>

[Guest guest]

> Nutri West Adreno Lyth-80 (not Lymph) I believe is equivalent to Nutri

> Adrenal. Nutri Adrenal Extra is more potent than Adrenal Lyth-80 (or Nutri

> Adrenal). You can get 33% off Nutri Adrenal and Nutri Adrenal Extra as a

> member of TPA-UK.

>

> Luv - Sheila

Things do get confusing: so many companies called Nutri-something or another as

well.

Nutri West do different things:

Adreno-Lyph 160

Adreno-Lyph 80

Adreno-Lyph-Sym

Adreno-Lyph Para

Adreno-Lyph Plus

As far as I can tell, (please see my other posting as I listed ingredients).

Adreno-Lyph-Plus is the same ingredients as Nutri-Adrenal-Extra, or at least

Nutri-West's old version was the same as Nutri-Adrenal-Extra.

Clearly being on an extra or a plus version of a tablet is the crucial thing and

not to confuse them.

Time and time again, I have read about advice to stop thyroid tablets for a

week, while you start taking adrenal supplements.

As I have always taken an adrenal supplement and did so long before any thyroid

tablets of any kind, I assume you are safe to switch and substitute one for the

other? So if I have taken 4 a day of Adreno-Lyph-Plus for a couple of years, I

assume it's OK to take 4 a day of the Nutri Adrenal Extra as a straight swop.

The more I read ingredients lists, the more I am convinced that Nutri-West's

Adreno-Lyph-Plus is the same as Nutri's Adrenal Extra. But the Adreno-lyph-plus

has changed slightly. So actually I could be changing to keep continuity

like-for-like for old contents as well as saving money. Perhaps this could be

peace of mind, knowing the contents will be the same as what I have been taking,

if I switch to nutri adrenal extra.

I hope I am not confusing anybody ha-ha. I just assumed that Nutri Adrenal Extra

was a stronger supplement than Adreno-Lyph-Plus and that I was recommended

Adreno for a reason. It appears that Nutri West and Nutri are just rival

companies, rather than either " Extra " or " plus " being superior in potency, they

are equivalent.

Perhaps I am learning all the time, and perhaps it's just cost, is why I don't

hear of many people taking Adreno-Lyph-Plus and why everybody takes Nutri

Adrenal Extra?

Fiona

[Guest guest]

Sorry for long-winded postings.

So making the assumption that Adreno-Lyph-Plus can be switched directly for

Nutri Adrenal Extra, this is the saving I was hoping for!!!!!! WOW!

So when people were wondering why last year I was spending £100 a month on

tablets and supplements, now you know why, it's the Adreno-Lyph-Plus that are

twice as expensive as they need to be, rather than anything else!

Looking at the list from the files:

Nutri Adrenal Extra (high potency concentrate) 22.95

15.38 (discounted)

AND I am looking at the 120 size for both too!

This is over half-price in comparison to the Adreno-Lyph-Plus that I have been

taking for an ongoing basis!

Must stop typing before I get too excited and somebody bursts my bubble.

IS this really true? Is this correct? Or is it too good to be true?

If this is correct and it's £15.38 a month rather than £36 a month! I would be

daft to continue Adreno-Lyph-Plus and no wonder everybody takes Nutri Adrenal

Extra.

Otherwise I know I have a good deal with Vit C and Q10 with Natures Best who are

more reasonable than elsewhere, esp for the Q10.

I am waiting for somebody to bash me over the head for being stupid for missing

something now, but as far as I can see, I may have cracked this!

Fiona.