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has anyone tried the mag chloride flakes? diane, near philly, pa On Mar 19, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Baker wrote:I agree about a different form, but mag citrate for sure affects me (e.g. Calm). I'm using mag malate orally now and I have a max amount per day with that. But the mag oil really really works. Next time I buy I will buy glycinate as well as malate, and also keep going with the oil. -->What kind of magnesium are you taking? A better quality has little effect >on the bowel, like mag chloride, mag citrate, or mag glycinate. If you are >taking mag oxide, it is the least absorbable form, which is why it causes >bowel problems. I could only take 100mg or so of oxide before it caused >troubles, but now I take 1000mg chloride, and it actually helped eliminate >my spasming bowel. I can also take 600mg of citrate without any problems. >So maybe a different form will help.>>Donna in IL>>The problem with magnesium for me is that any more than 200-400 mg gives >me loose stools. I was taking a lot previously and then realized that it >was probably too much and I don't think I was absorbing anything in >particular the iodine. It was when I cut back that I actually felt the >iodine was starting to do something. I guess I could wait to take it >before bed to help with the nighttime symptoms. So, you think this is >probably just detox?~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~--A.J. Muste

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I would like to. But my doc only carries the oil.

Steph

Re: Re: Becoming hyperthyroid a sign of sufficiency?

has anyone tried the mag chloride flakes?

diane, near philly, pa

On Mar 19, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Baker wrote:

I agree about a different form, but mag citrate for sure affects me (e.g. Calm). I'm using mag malate orally now and I have a max amount per day with that. But the mag oil really really works. Next time I buy I will buy glycinate as well as malate, and also keep going with! the oil . -->What kind of magnesium are you taking? A better quality has little effect >on the bowel, like mag chloride, mag citrate, or mag glycinate. If you are >taking mag oxide, it is the least absorbable form, which is why it causes >bowel problems. I could only take 100mg or so of oxide before it caused >troubles, but now I take 1000mg chloride, and it actually helped eliminate >my spasming bowel. I can also take 600mg of citrate without any problems. >So maybe a different form will help.>>Donna in IL>>The problem with magnesium for me is that any more than 200-400 mg gives >me loose stools. I was taking a lot previously and then realized that it >was probably too much and I don't think I was absorbing anything in >particular the iodine. It was when I cut back that I actually felt the >iodine was starting to do something. I guess I could wait to take it >before bed to help with the nighttime symptoms. So, you think this is >probably just detox?~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~--A.J. Muste

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i was going to order the oil, but i am diabetic and when i have issues it is with my skin. i think i remember reading that the oil can burn a little? or feel warm? do you think there is a high probability of skin problems with the oil? i was thinking of using it in the tub. also, does it feel like oil? would it be good for dry skin? or is it a different texture? thanks diane, near philly, pa On Mar 19, 2010, at 11:01 PM, ladybugsandbees wrote:I would like to. But my doc only carries the oil. Steph Re: Re: Becoming hyperthyroid a sign of sufficiency? has anyone tried the mag chloride flakes? diane, near philly, paOn Mar 19, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Baker wrote:I agree about a different form, but mag citrate for sure affects me (e.g. Calm). I'm using mag malate orally now and I have a max amount per day with that. But the mag oil really really works. Next time I buy I will buy glycinate as well as malate, and also keep going with! the oil . -->What kind of magnesium are you taking? A better quality has little effect >on the bowel, like mag chloride, mag citrate, or mag glycinate. If you are >taking mag oxide, it is the least absorbable form, which is why it causes >bowel problems. I could only take 100mg or so of oxide before it caused >troubles, but now I take 1000mg chloride, and it actually helped eliminate >my spasming bowel. I can also take 600mg of citrate without any problems. >So maybe a different form will help.>>Donna in IL>>The problem with magnesium for me is that any more than 200-400 mg gives >me loose stools. I was taking a lot previously and then realized that it >was probably too much and I don't think I was absorbing anything in >particular the iodine. It was when I cut back that I actually felt the >iodine was starting to do something. I guess I could wait to take it >before bed to help with the nighttime symptoms. So, you think this is >probably just detox?~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~--A.J. Muste

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Diane, I'm not diabetic so I can't speak to that. But, I've had skin

itchiness and sensitivities all my life, so I was very concerned about the

mag oil because of such reports. I found that any burning or prickly

sensation quickly subsides, and that my skin gets used to it and it doesn't

feel that way anymore. I didn't do anything like put it all over my body

or anything crazy. I started with some on the inside of one wrist, then

the other, then my lower legs. Thinner skin that is more sheltered from

the sun is more reactive, it seems to me. I have put it on my face (in the

form with the aloe vera in it) and it feels wonderful, but it's not a

moisturizer per se. I still need to use something to keep hydrated.

They call it an oil because it feels slick like an oil, but it isn't. It

soaks in, if you wash your hands afterward the oily feeling is gone with

just water and no soap. It doesn't stain bedding or anything that I can tell.

I think the oil might be a bit pricey for the bath. REmember that epsom

salts is a magnesium source and is recommended for baths.

High probability-- I'm sensitive to a lot of things, and I rapidly

acclimated to the mag oil sensations. So I would tend to say that if I

acclimate quickly, a lot of people will. But of course there is no way to

know until you try it.

hope this helps. --

>i was going to order the oil, but i am diabetic and when i have issues it

>is with my skin. i think i remember reading that the oil can burn a

>little? or feel warm? do you think there is a high probability of skin

>problems with the oil? i was thinking of using it in the tub. also, does

>it feel like oil? would it be good for dry skin? or is it a different

>texture? thanks

>diane, near philly, pa

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

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I use the mag oil from ancient minerals...it too dries my skin. I actually

think it caused me to get " eczema " on my shins since that's the first place I

was spraying it. I Don't think I'm using enough to make a huge difference.

>

>

> I agree about a different form, but mag citrate for sure affects me

(e.g.

> Calm). I'm using mag malate orally now and I have a max amount per day

with

> that. But the mag oil really really works. Next time I buy I will buy

> glycinate as well as malate, and also keep going with! the oil .

--

>

> >What kind of magnesium are you taking? A better quality has little

effect

> >on the bowel, like mag chloride, mag citrate, or mag glycinate. If

you are

> >taking mag oxide, it is the least absorbable form, which is why it

causes

> >bowel problems. I could only take 100mg or so of oxide before it

caused

> >troubles, but now I take 1000mg chloride, and it actually helped

eliminate

> >my spasming bowel. I can also take 600mg of citrate without any

problems.

> >So maybe a different form will help.

> >

> >Donna in IL

> >

> >The problem with magnesium for me is that any more than 200-400 mg

gives

> >me loose stools. I was taking a lot previously and then realized that

it

> >was probably too much and I don't think I was absorbing anything in

> >particular the iodine. It was when I cut back that I actually felt

the

> >iodine was starting to do something. I guess I could wait to take it

> >before bed to help with the nighttime symptoms. So, you think this is

> >probably just detox?

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

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Well, ok but I saw some instructions for the mag oil that said not to put

any oil on your skin before using the mag, because the oil would tend to

block the absorption of magnesium. So I would be concerned that the

coconut oil would block absorption of the magnesium with this method.

I'm huge on coconut oil, it's wonderful. Just confused about this mixture

and use.

--

>I made my own magnesium cream and it doesn't itch at all. I dissolved 4

>TBS of epsom salt in about 3 TBS of water on the stove (just kept adding

>epsom salt until it wouldn't dissolve any longer), then I mixed in about

>12 TBS of coconut oil. Coconut oil is hard at room temp, but melts very

>quickly so I just added it to the hot water and took it off the

>stove. Mixed it all up and transferred it to a pretty jar so it can sit

>on my bathroom counter. My skin feels wonderful when I use this cream (I

>think the coconut oil offsets the itchiness) and I'm getting extra

>magnesium plus the awesome health benefits of coconut oil too.

>

>I've heard of others mixing the salt solution in olive oil, pertoleum

>jelly, or whatever base they like. A friend of mine dissolves epsom salt

>in water (1 to 1 ratio) and keeps it in a spray mister.

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

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Absolutely no-- soaking in epsom salts nor mag oil will not take the place

of sea salt internally. Steph once said that each spray of mag oil is

about 20mg, so as I apply it I'm counting how many sprays I use. Of

course, different spray bottles distribute different amounts each spray,

but I'm using a spray bottle made by the Ancient Minerals folks so I reckon

I'm getting the 20mg sprays. I am still taking mag internally, but the

external allows me to get more mag without having gut reactions. --

>hi victoria, thanks for the information. i am going to try it, and i did

>read last night that epsom salts is magnesium..here is a thought, using

>epsom salts, does it give your body the minerals etc. that you would get

>from sea salt? would it negate the need for sea salt internally? the mag

>flakes and i think the swansons said this could be used in bath. i may

>check out the epsom as well, just see what works best with me... thanks

>for the information. i definitely need to get some oil for bathing. my

>skin is so awfully dry, my feet keep cracking and that makes them painful.

>arbonne makes bathing products that are great. will have to get some more

>of them. but thanks for the information..appreciate it.

>

>as a ps. if you take mag oil or mag flakes etc. is magnesium orally still

>needed or does the mag oil, do the job..thanks

>diane, near philly, pa

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

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I would think they would be very compatible since coconut oil also penetrates

the skin for healing. One needs to rub it for a longer time for this to happen,

per Bruce Fife's recommendations. Its worth a try.

Joan

>

> Well, ok but I saw some instructions for the mag oil that said not to put

> any oil on your skin before using the mag, because the oil would tend to

> block the absorption of magnesium. So I would be concerned that the

> coconut oil would block absorption of the magnesium with this method.

>

> I'm huge on coconut oil, it's wonderful. Just confused about this mixture

> and use.

>

> --

>

>

> >I made my own magnesium cream and it doesn't itch at all. I dissolved 4

> >TBS of epsom salt in about 3 TBS of water on the stove (just kept adding

> >epsom salt until it wouldn't dissolve any longer), then I mixed in about

> >12 TBS of coconut oil. Coconut oil is hard at room temp, but melts very

> >quickly so I just added it to the hot water and took it off the

> >stove. Mixed it all up and transferred it to a pretty jar so it can sit

> >on my bathroom counter. My skin feels wonderful when I use this cream (I

> >think the coconut oil offsets the itchiness) and I'm getting extra

> >magnesium plus the awesome health benefits of coconut oil too.

> >

> >I've heard of others mixing the salt solution in olive oil, pertoleum

> >jelly, or whatever base they like. A friend of mine dissolves epsom salt

> >in water (1 to 1 ratio) and keeps it in a spray mister.

>

>

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

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is there any issue with taking sea salt without the iodine? just curiosity here. okay. will keep up with the mag orally. and maybe do the epsom and do some spray. my daughter gets headaches so is wanting to try the mag spray too. hopefully it will work. diane, near philly, pa On Mar 20, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Baker wrote:Absolutely no-- soaking in epsom salts nor mag oil will not take the place of sea salt internally. Steph once said that each spray of mag oil is about 20mg, so as I apply it I'm counting how many sprays I use. Of course, different spray bottles distribute different amounts each spray, but I'm using a spray bottle made by the Ancient Minerals folks so I reckon I'm getting the 20mg sprays. I am still taking mag internally, but the external allows me to get more mag without having gut reactions. -->hi victoria, thanks for the information. i am going to try it, and i did >read last night that epsom salts is magnesium..here is a thought, using >epsom salts, does it give your body the minerals etc. that you would get >from sea salt? would it negate the need for sea salt internally? the mag >flakes and i think the swansons said this could be used in bath. i may >check out the epsom as well, just see what works best with me... thanks >for the information. i definitely need to get some oil for bathing. my >skin is so awfully dry, my feet keep cracking and that makes them painful. >arbonne makes bathing products that are great. will have to get some more >of them. but thanks for the information..appreciate it.>>as a ps. if you take mag oil or mag flakes etc. is magnesium orally still >needed or does the mag oil, do the job..thanks>diane, near philly, pa~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~--A.J. Muste

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i think i saw mag lotion.. i am going to see if i actually saw that or if i am dreaming it..lol.. diane, near philly, pa On Mar 20, 2010, at 3:29 PM, LinR wrote:I use the mag oil from ancient minerals...it too dries my skin. I actually think it caused me to get "eczema" on my shins since that's the first place I was spraying it. I Don't think I'm using enough to make a huge difference.> > > I agree about a different form, but mag citrate for sure affects me (e.g. > Calm). I'm using mag malate orally now and I have a max amount per day with > that. But the mag oil really really works. Next time I buy I will buy > glycinate as well as malate, and also keep going with! the oil . --> > >What kind of magnesium are you taking? A better quality has little effect > >on the bowel, like mag chloride, mag citrate, or mag glycinate. If you are > >taking mag oxide, it is the least absorbable form, which is why it causes > >bowel problems. I could only take 100mg or so of oxide before it caused > >troubles, but now I take 1000mg chloride, and it actually helped eliminate > >my spasming bowel. I can also take 600mg of citrate without any problems. > >So maybe a different form will help.> >> >Donna in IL> >> >The problem with magnesium for me is that any more than 200-400 mg gives > >me loose stools. I was taking a lot previously and then realized that it > >was probably too much and I don't think I was absorbing anything in > >particular the iodine. It was when I cut back that I actually felt the > >iodine was starting to do something. I guess I could wait to take it > >before bed to help with the nighttime symptoms. So, you think this is > >probably just detox?> > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~> --A.J. Muste>

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They do sell it on the mag oil site not sure what type of lotion. Also may have seen mag in aloe there as wellSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: diane gaul <ditique@...>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:51:18 -0400<iodine >Subject: Re: Re: Becoming hyperthyroid a sign of sufficiency?i think i saw mag lotion.. i am going to see if i actually saw that or if i am dreaming it..lol.. diane, near philly, pa On Mar 20, 2010, at 3:29 PM, LinR wrote:I use the mag oil from ancient minerals...it too dries my skin. I actually think it caused me to get "eczema" on my shins since that's the first place I was spraying it. I Don't think I'm using enough to make a huge difference.> > > I agree about a different form, but mag citrate for sure affects me (e.g. > Calm). I'm using mag malate orally now and I have a max amount per day with > that. But the mag oil really really works. Next time I buy I will buy > glycinate as well as malate, and also keep going with! the oil . --> > >What kind of magnesium are you taking? A better quality has little effect > >on the bowel, like mag chloride, mag citrate, or mag glycinate. If you are > >taking mag oxide, it is the least absorbable form, which is why it causes > >bowel problems. I could only take 100mg or so of oxide before it caused > >troubles, but now I take 1000mg chloride, and it actually helped eliminate > >my spasming bowel. I can also take 600mg of citrate without any problems. > >So maybe a different form will help.> >> >Donna in IL> >> >The problem with magnesium for me is that any more than 200-400 mg gives > >me loose stools. I was taking a lot previously and then realized that it > >was probably too much and I don't think I was absorbing anything in > >particular the iodine. It was when I cut back that I actually felt the > >iodine was starting to do something. I guess I could wait to take it > >before bed to help with the nighttime symptoms. So, you think this is > >probably just detox?> > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~> --A.J. Muste>

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From my research mag. sulfate (epsom salts) are very easily absorbed through the skin. I still take magnesium supplements in addition to the homemade mag lotion, but I'm convinced that this homemade lotion helps too because it's very soothing. My son just finshed 3 years of chemotherapy for leukemia. Without a doubt his recovery from each weekly chemo was much faster and easier if we used this mag lotion.

Check out the website below. It explains how epsom salt helps with detoxification and they have directions for making your own mag oil, lotion, spray, etc.

http://www.enzymestuff.com/epsomsalts.htm

From: david kenna <davidjohnkenna@...>iodine Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 12:21:19 PMSubject: Re: Re: Becoming hyperthyroid a sign of sufficiency?

Rbevva,

How do you know that its working?

From: Engel <rre831 (DOT) com>Subject: Re: Re: Becoming hyperthyroid a sign of sufficiency?iodinegroups (DOT) comDate: Saturday, 20 March, 2010, 16:13

I made my own magnesium cream and it doesn't itch at all. I dissolved 4 TBS of epsom salt in about 3 TBS of water on the stove (just kept adding epsom salt until it wouldn't dissolve any longer), then I mixed in about 12 TBS of coconut oil. Coconut oil is hard at room temp, but melts very quickly so I just added it to the hot water and took it off the stove. Mixed it all up and transferred it to a pretty jar so it can sit on my bathroom counter. My skin feels wonderful when I use this cream (I think the coconut oil offsets the itchiness) and I'm getting extra magnesium plus the awesome health benefits of coconut oil too.

I've heard of others mixing the salt solution in olive oil, pertoleum jelly, or whatever base they like. A friend of mine dissolves epsom salt in water (1 to 1 ratio) and keeps it in a spray mister.

From: Baker <vbakersstar (DOT) com>iodinegroups (DOT) comSent: Fri, March 19, 2010 7:32:18 PMSubject: Re: Re: Becoming hyperthyroid a sign of sufficiency?

I'm using magnesium oil and love it, after fearing the itchy feeling. Once my skin got used to it the itching is minimal and only on new areas. No gut effects. Also, magnesium glycinate is a form that does not have a gut effect.-->The problem with magnesium for me is that any more than 200-400 mg gives >me loose stools. I was taking a lot previously and then realized that it >was probably too much and I don't think I was absorbing anything in >particular the iodine. It was when I cut back that I actually felt the >iodine was starting to do something. I guess I could wait to take it >before bed to help with the nighttime symptoms. So, you think this is >probably just detox?~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~--A.J.

Muste

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I don't see why this can not work. The only issue is what you use as a cream

base. There are some creams that literally sit on your skin and are not

absorbed so I would imagine would slow the absorption of the magnesium. I also

find magnesium oil difficult and unfortunately only use it now when I run out of

epsom salts for my bath. :) Thanks for posting this.

>

>

> >From: Engel <rre831 (DOT) com>

> >Subject: Re: Re: Becoming hyperthyroid a sign of sufficiency?

> >iodinegroups (DOT) com

> >Date: Saturday, 20 March, 2010, 16:13

> >

> >

> > 

> >I made my own magnesium cream and it doesn't itch at all. I dissolved 4 TBS

of epsom salt in about 3 TBS of water on the stove (just kept adding epsom salt

until it wouldn't dissolve any longer), then I mixed in about 12 TBS of coconut

oil.  Coconut oil is hard at room temp, but melts very quickly so I just added

it to the hot water and took it off the stove.  Mixed it all up and transferred

it to a pretty jar so it can sit on my bathroom counter.  My skin feels

wonderful when I use this cream (I think the coconut oil offsets the

itchiness)  and I'm getting extra magnesium plus the awesome health benefits of

coconut oil too.

> >

> >I've heard of others mixing the salt solution in olive oil, pertoleum jelly,

or whatever base they like.  A friend of mine dissolves epsom salt in water (1

to 1 ratio) and keeps it in a spray mister.

> >

> > 

> >

> >

> >

> ________________________________

> From: Baker <vbakersstar (DOT) com>

> >iodinegroups (DOT) com

> >Sent: Fri, March 19, 2010 7:32:18 PM

> >Subject: Re: Re: Becoming hyperthyroid a sign of sufficiency?

> >

> > 

> >I'm using magnesium oil and love it, after fearing the itchy feeling. Once

> >my skin got used to it the itching is minimal and only on new areas. No

> >gut effects. Also, magnesium glycinate is a form that does not have a gut

> >effect.

> >

> >--

> >

> >>The problem with magnesium for me is that any more than 200-400 mg gives

> >>me loose stools. I was taking a lot previously and then realized that it

> >>was probably too much and I don't think I was absorbing anything in

> >>particular the iodine. It was when I cut back that I actually felt the

> >>iodine was starting to do something. I guess I could wait to take it

> >>before bed to help with the nighttime symptoms. So, you think this is

> >>probably just detox?

> >

> >~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> >--A.J. Muste

> >

> >

> >

>

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I use Ancient Minerals too. Initially it made skin feel dry even saw a whitish

residue. However as you keep on using it & arms just before bedtime. never

washed it off. Initially had burning & itching so diluted with distilled water

75%/Oil 25%, gradually went to 50/50 then 25/75 finally 100% oil.

I have had real benefits from using the oil. Need much less rx potassium &

Florinef than I used to.

I couldnt use ANY oral Mag for many years. Finally found one I could use (a mix

of good absorbable forms) but is very expensive & slow to replentish low levels

that way. Plus there are 4 of us needing it. mag Oil is much more cost

effective.

Lethal Lee

> >

> > For me it is drying to the skin. I use moisturizing lotion too. I don't

wipe it off though - I leave it on. In the bath would would be good but

expensive. I think I would use Epsom salts for that or dead sea salts are even

cheaper than MG flakes would be. Steph

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Second try seems half my reply disappeared?

I use Ancient Minerals too. Initially it made skin feel dry even saw a whitish

residue. However as you keep on using it skin got really soft. I applied to my

legs & arms just before bedtime. Never washed it off.

Initially I did have some burning & itching so I diluted with distilled water

(as suggested by them) water 75%/Oil 25%, gradually went to 50/50 then 25%

water/75% Oil & finally 100% Oil.

I have had real benefits from using the oil. Need much less rx Potassium &

Florinef than I used to. And thats through the hottest & driest Summer on record

in West Australia!!!

I couldnt use ANY oral Mag for many years without losing control of bowel

function. Finally found one I could use (a mix of good absorbable forms) but is

very expensive & slow to replentish low levels that way. Plus there are 4 of us

needing it.

Mag Oil is much more cost effective. I am wary of magnesium Sulphate. First

because those with mercury issues have problems with Sulphates. Second I read

that Epson Salts/Mag Sulphate often has Aluminium in it.

Lethal Lee

> >

> > >

> > > For me it is drying to the skin. I use moisturizing lotion too. I don't

wipe it off though - I leave it on. In the bath would would be good but

expensive. I think I would use Epsom salts for that or dead sea salts are even

cheaper than MG flakes would be. Steph

>

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Some other ideas that I have used, Epson salts/ Vingear or Epson Salts or Baking

soda in the bath ( 1 cup of each) You can even use a little Lavander oil for

calming. Magnesium is really helpful and important for your entire nervous

system. If taken orally it can cause loose stools, but taken in smaller doses

its not has bad, and

if taken at bedtime usually will not have the action on stoolls until

morning.

Allie

> > > >

> > > > For me it is drying to the skin. I use moisturizing lotion too. I

don't wipe it off though - I leave it on. In the bath would would be good but

expensive. I think I would use Epsom salts for that or dead sea salts are even

cheaper than MG flakes would be. Steph

> >

>

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Hypothyroid people don't retain salt well. A teaspoon daily should be taken as

a general rule.

Joan

>

> > Absolutely no-- soaking in epsom salts nor mag oil will not take the

> > place

> > of sea salt internally. Steph once said that each spray of mag oil is

> > about 20mg, so as I apply it I'm counting how many sprays I use. Of

> > course, different spray bottles distribute different amounts each

> > spray,

> > but I'm using a spray bottle made by the Ancient Minerals folks so I

> > reckon

> > I'm getting the 20mg sprays. I am still taking mag internally, but the

> > external allows me to get more mag without having gut reactions. --

> >

> >

> > >hi victoria, thanks for the information. i am going to try it, and

> > i did

> > >read last night that epsom salts is magnesium..here is a thought,

> > using

> > >epsom salts, does it give your body the minerals etc. that you

> > would get

> > >from sea salt? would it negate the need for sea salt internally?

> > the mag

> > >flakes and i think the swansons said this could be used in bath. i

> > may

> > >check out the epsom as well, just see what works best with me...

> > thanks

> > >for the information. i definitely need to get some oil for bathing.

> > my

> > >skin is so awfully dry, my feet keep cracking and that makes them

> > painful.

> > >arbonne makes bathing products that are great. will have to get

> > some more

> > >of them. but thanks for the information..appreciate it.

> > >

> > >as a ps. if you take mag oil or mag flakes etc. is magnesium orally

> > still

> > >needed or does the mag oil, do the job..thanks

> > >diane, near philly, pa

> >

> > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> > --A.J. Muste

> >

> >

> >

>

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