Re: bromine in bread

[Guest guest]

Flour for baking is brominated. It used to be iodinated but that

changed back in the 70's, I believe.

If you bake your own bread, you can buy King Arthur flour and/or get a

grain mill and buy the grain and mill your own flour. We do both. King

Arthur is really good stuff, they don't brominate their flour. I bought

it when I had to order it by mail, shipping cost more than the flour

did. Now our store has it - I kept asking for it and finally they got

it in.

We use lots of different flours - at least the guys do, I'm gluten

free. Kamut makes great bread, so does spelt although it's lower in

gluten.

Sorry to go on, but bread is a great thing at our house.... (C8 I

learned early on that to have a happy husband, I had to bake wonderful

bread regularly!

Lately I have been wondering if the switch to bromide in flour was what

started my problems. I was a teenager in the 70's and we got all our

bread and baked goods at a family run bakery. I later worked at the

place. I don't know now if their flour was bromated or not, but most

commercial flour is. Iodine and bromide act as dough conditioners.

During my teen years, when I worked at the bakery, I started having

hives and no one knew why. Other problems followed that I now realize

were hypothyroidism. Years went by before I was diagnosed as

hypothyroid with Hashimoto's.

coloredoctave wrote:

>

> How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the ingredients? My

> mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm

> questioning that.

>

> Thanks,

> Joan

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It would be called brominated vegetable oil but I have heard flours can be brominated.

Steph

bromine in bread

How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the ingredients? My mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm questioning that.Thanks,Joan

[Guest guest]

This is from Dr. Brownstein's iodine book.

In 1965, The National Institute of Health reported that the average iodine intake from bakery products was 726 ug of iodine per day. ......Due to the erroneous concern of getting too much iodine from bakery products, iodine was replaced with bromine in the 1980's.

Re: bromine in bread

Flour for baking is brominated. It used to be iodinated but that changed back in the 70's, I believe.If you bake your own bread, you can buy King Arthur flour and/or get a grain mill and buy the grain and mill your own flour. We do both. King Arthur is really good stuff, they don't brominate their flour. I bought it when I had to order it by mail, shipping cost more than the flour did. Now our store has it - I kept asking for it and finally they got it in.We use lots of different flours - at least the guys do, I'm gluten free. Kamut makes great bread, so does spelt although it's lower in gluten.Sorry to go on, but bread is a great thing at our house.... (C8 I learned early on that to have a happy husband, I had to bake wonderful bread regularly!Lately I have been wondering if the switch to bromide in flour was what started my problems. I was a teenager in the 70's and we got all our bread and baked goods at a family run bakery. I later worked at the place. I don't know now if their flour was bromated or not, but most commercial flour is. Iodine and bromide act as dough conditioners. During my teen years, when I worked at the bakery, I started having hives and no one knew why. Other problems followed that I now realize were hypothyroidism. Years went by before I was diagnosed as hypothyroid with Hashimoto's.coloredoctave wrote:>> How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the ingredients? My > mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm > questioning that.>> Thanks,> Joan>> >

[Guest guest]

That's is exactly the time period that so many people that are now 35-55 started to have health problems. We must have really been borderline in our iodine to begin with as the toxins ramped up in the 70's and that helped push us over the cliff.

Engtovo

From: ladybugsandbees

Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:10 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: bromine in bread

This is from Dr. Brownstein's iodine book.

In 1965, The National Institute of Health reported that the average iodine intake from bakery products was 726 ug of iodine per day. ......Due to the erroneous concern of getting too much iodine from bakery products, iodine was replaced with bromine in the 1980's.

Re: bromine in bread

Flour for baking is brominated. It used to be iodinated but that changed back in the 70's, I believe.If you bake your own bread, you can buy King Arthur flour and/or get a grain mill and buy the grain and mill your own flour. We do both. King Arthur is really good stuff, they don't brominate their flour. I bought it when I had to order it by mail, shipping cost more than the flour did. Now our store has it - I kept asking for it and finally they got it in.We use lots of different flours - at least the guys do, I'm gluten free. Kamut makes great bread, so does spelt although it's lower in gluten.Sorry to go on, but bread is a great thing at our house.... (C8 I learned early on that to have a happy husband, I had to bake wonderful bread regularly!Lately I have been wondering if the switch to bromide in flour was what started my problems. I was a teenager in the 70's and we got all our bread and baked goods at a family run bakery. I later worked at the place. I don't know now if their flour was bromated or not, but most commercial flour is. Iodine and bromide act as dough conditioners. During my teen years, when I worked at the bakery, I started having hives and no one knew why. Other problems followed that I now realize were hypothyroidism. Years went by before I was diagnosed as hypothyroid with Hashimoto's.coloredoctave wrote:>> How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the ingredients? My > mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm > questioning that.>> Thanks,> Joan>> >

[Guest guest]

We are now stampeding over the cliff.

Steph

Re: bromine in bread

Flour for baking is brominated. It used to be iodinated but that changed back in the 70's, I believe.If you bake your own bread, you can buy King Arthur flour and/or get a grain mill and buy the grain and mill your own flour. We do both. King Arthur is really good stuff, they don't brominate their flour. I bought it when I had to order it by mail, shipping cost more than the flour did. Now our store has it - I kept asking for it and finally they got it in.We use lots of different flours - at least the guys do, I'm gluten free. Kamut makes great bread, so does spelt although it's lower in gluten.Sorry to go on, but bread is a great thing at our house.... (C8 I learned early on that to have a happy husband, I had to bake wonderful bread regularly!Lately I have been wondering if the switch to bromide in flour was what started my problems. I was a teenager in the 70's and we got all our bread and baked goods at a family run bakery. I later worked at the place. I don't know now if their flour was bromated or not, but most commercial flour is. Iodine and bromide act as dough conditioners. During my teen years, when I worked at the bakery, I started having hives and no one knew why. Other problems followed that I now realize were hypothyroidism. Years went by before I was diagnosed as hypothyroid with Hashimoto's.coloredoctave wrote:>> How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the ingredients? My > mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm > questioning that.>> Thanks,> Joan>> >

[Guest guest]

Steph, were you born and raised here in the Goiter Belt like I was?

I've lived in Michigan all my life.

ladybugsandbees wrote:

>

> We are now stampeding over the cliff.

> Steph

>

> * Re: bromine in bread

>

> Flour for baking is brominated. It used to be iodinated but that

> changed back in the 70's, I believe.

>

> If you bake your own bread, you can buy King Arthur flour

> and/or get a

> grain mill and buy the grain and mill your own flour. We do

> both. King

> Arthur is really good stuff, they don't brominate their flour.

> I bought

> it when I had to order it by mail, shipping cost more than the

> flour

> did. Now our store has it - I kept asking for it and finally

> they got

> it in.

>

> We use lots of different flours - at least the guys do, I'm

> gluten

> free. Kamut makes great bread, so does spelt although it's

> lower in

> gluten.

>

> Sorry to go on, but bread is a great thing at our house.... (C8 I

> learned early on that to have a happy husband, I had to bake

> wonderful

> bread regularly!

>

> Lately I have been wondering if the switch to bromide in flour

> was what

> started my problems. I was a teenager in the 70's and we got

> all our

> bread and baked goods at a family run bakery. I later worked

> at the

> place. I don't know now if their flour was bromated or not,

> but most

> commercial flour is. Iodine and bromide act as dough

> conditioners.

> During my teen years, when I worked at the bakery, I started

> having

> hives and no one knew why. Other problems followed that I now

> realize

> were hypothyroidism. Years went by before I was diagnosed as

> hypothyroid with Hashimoto's.

>

>

>

> coloredoctave wrote:

> >

> > How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the

> ingredients? My

> > mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm

> > questioning that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I was born in West MI, moved to Chicago for 1 year when I was two. Back to MI and then was in Colorado for 3 years but back to MI when I was in 5th grade and have lived her ever since. Yep pretty much the goiter belt all my life.

Steph

* Re: bromine in bread>> Flour for baking is brominated. It used to be iodinated but that> changed back in the 70's, I believe.>> If you bake your own bread, you can buy King Arthur flour> and/or get a> grain mill and buy the grain and mill your own flour. We do> both. King> Arthur is really good stuff, they don't brominate their flour.> I bought> it when I had to order it by mail, shipping cost more than the> flour> did. Now our store has it - I kept asking for it and finally> they got> it in.>> We use lots of different flours - at least the guys do, I'm> gluten> free. Kamut makes great bread, so does spelt although it's> lower in> gluten.>> Sorry to go on, but bread is a great thing at our house.... (C8 I> learned early on that to have a happy husband, I had to bake> wonderful> bread regularly!>> Lately I have been wondering if the switch to bromide in flour> was what> started my problems. I was a teenager in the 70's and we got> all our> bread and baked goods at a family run bakery. I later worked> at the> place. I don't know now if their flour was bromated or not,> but most> commercial flour is. Iodine and bromide act as dough> conditioners.> During my teen years, when I worked at the bakery, I started> having> hives and no one knew why. Other problems followed that I now> realize> were hypothyroidism. Years went by before I was diagnosed as> hypothyroid with Hashimoto's.>> >> coloredoctave wrote:> >> > How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the> ingredients? My> > mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm> > questioning that.> >>

[Guest guest]

It is for me. I felt something weird, I described it as something clicking

off inside me, in 1990 or so. Went to the doctor and my TSH was 10, at

that time considered normal, went untreated until 2001 or so. So yeah, the

bromines in bread may have been the very thing.

The thing is, I've been eating organic and whole grains since the early

80s, but I guess commercial whole wheat breads have had bromines, or

did. I eat Ezekiel sprouted bread now, btw.

--

>That's is exactly the time period that so many people that are now 35-55

>started to have health problems. We must have really been borderline in

>our iodine to begin with as the toxins ramped up in the 70's and that

>helped push us over the cliff.

>

>Engtovo

>

>From: <mailto:ladybugsandbees@...>ladybugsandbees

>Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:10 PM

><mailto:iodine >iodine

>Subject: Re: bromine in bread

>

>

>

>This is from Dr. Brownstein's iodine book.

>

>In 1965, The National Institute of Health reported that the average iodine

>intake from bakery products was 726 ug of iodine per day. ......Due to

>the erroneous concern of getting too much iodine from bakery products,

>iodine was replaced with bromine in the 1980's.

>

>

>

>

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

The flour itself can be brominated, but some of the organic brands state specifically that they are unbrominated.AnneOn Feb 20, 2010, at 1:56 PM, coloredoctave wrote: How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the ingredients? My mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm questioning that. Thanks, Joan

[Guest guest]

And another issue is that not all of us have good detoxification pathways. Phase I and Phase II issues are common and if you have the MTHFR gene defect you will not detox easily w/o intervention from outside "products" or what I call "plug in's" to the methylation cycle. I have attached the methylation chart for those who are new to this.

Re: bromine in bread

For what it's worth,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_bromateAlso, some crude numbers;Assume the same amount of bromine from bread as iodine, 726 ug (0.726 mg) ingested per dayconsumed over a 30 year (1980 to 2010) periodgives a total consumption of bromine as 7,950 mg (.726 *365*30)Given a daily urinary excretion on using Lugol's of 66 mg/Lassume only 1 liter of urine excreted per dayover 2 yearstotal bromine excreted is 48,180 mgPlease correct me if I am wrong, or unreasonable in my worst case scenario estimates. If 's lab work is valid (66 mg/l), then in two years, 6 times as much bromine will have been excreted in urine alone as may have been consumed (and assumed to have retained all) from baked goods in 30 years.To further add to this;we have been quoted a baseline urine excretion of 24 mg/l,again assuming 1 liter urine excretion per day,in only 10 years that gives 87,600 mg excreted.That is 11 times (87,600/7,950)the total intake, over a 30 year period, from baked goods. Am I the only one on these lists seeking fact, not hearsay and out right untruths. MikeMP.S. I have issued a challenge on the OT sight to all to assist me in determine what are reasonable assumptions about total intake and total body of of toxins. I have yet to receive a response.>> How does one know if bromine is added? Is it in the ingredients? My mom looked at her bread package and said it didn't have but I'm questioning that.> > Thanks,> Joan>

1 of 1 Photo(s)

[Guest guest]

Yes it was Dr. Brownstein - in one of his blogs - that he posted about the car.

It is totally impossible to measure exposure. If we could I would be doing it. But I just have no idea.

I forgot one item on my list (earlier) - Drinks can contain brominated vegetable oil like Gatoraide or other sports like drinks (Bug Juice is one) as it is used to suspend the flavors in the liquid.

Steph

Re: Re: bromine in bread

Mike

I'm confused - exactly what is your point? Bromine is not the only toxin that competes with iodine (fluoride is another) And, as someone else pointed out there are many sources of bromine besides bread - brominated vegetable oils (as in Mountain Dew), fire retardents in fabrics, new cars, computers, TV's.

I'm not sure how we would measure our exposure (or absorption) of these other sources of bromine. So, it would be difficult to measure what is coming into our bodies vs the excretion.

Kendra

PS: I recall someone posting about a women (being treated by Dr. Brownstein?) who was going very well until she bought a new car and it took her over a year to restore her iodine levels after that event.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:37 AM, mmurra777 <mmurra777 (DOT) ca> wrote:

As I have said, I issued a challenge.I've given some numbers. I expect an equal contribution from others.I expect even the most ill-informed members of this group have repeatedly previously read the hearsay you chose to again waste space repeating.My challenge to you Bruce.How much bromine have you ingested in the last 365 days?Breakout intake amounts by source.Show your sources of information.To anyone on the Celtic salt intake, how much bromine do you ingest in 365 days?MikeM

[Guest guest]

The problem is bread is not the only source of

bromine/bromides, and there are all the other

toxins too. Like fluoride. The body doesn't just

detox Bromine/bromides, and can only detox so much

at a time. And if bromides are in breads, it's

probably in Pastas too because they're made with

flour. I'm thinking you have a minimum amount

calculated:) Think about; cookies, pies, crackers,

cakes, pastas, cereals, biscuits, etc. The off

gassing in new cars is full of the stuff, and I

haven't seen anywhere that says for how long, and

now I'm wondering about new furniture. I know that

memory foam off gasses formaldehyde, and so does

pressed wood. And probably ANY electronic

equipment. Although I couldn't swear to that one.

Carpet off gasses some chemicals, can't remember

which ones.

Then let's not forget the VOCs in the paint that

is on the walls of our homes, plus the other junk

in drinking water, and the air quality where you

live. If there plants of any kind with a smoke

stack you can just about bet the air is loaded

with stuff. Then there are the petrochlorates and

BPA. The latest thing I read on BPA stated that

just about everyone in the States has a certain

amount of BPA in their blood stream. And then

there is the aluminum cookwate, aluminum cans, non

stick cookware.

The story about over 200 chemicals in the cord

blood of infants is sobering. So yeah the body is

detoxing other stuff as well.

Maybe the case for deficiencies in Selenium and

Magnesium can be from the fact of our toxic

environments. All this stuff depletes Selenium,

Magnesium and Vit C, B vits, Glutathione. The RDA

just doesn't cut it when we're exposed to that

many toxins from year one. The toxic load on ther

body in the fifties was probably a lot lower than

it is today and not only the bromide.

Bethann

" The greatest enemy of knowledge is not

ignorance...it is the illusion of knowledge "

~ Hawking

mmurra777 wrote:

> For what it's worth,

> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Potassium_ bromate

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_bromate>

MikeM

[Guest guest]

A good example of how impossible it is to know your exposure comes right from this little town I live in. When we first moved here the town fluoridated the water. We lived in town itself the first two years, we didn't drink the water but we still had to shower in it. After we moved outside of town where we have a well there began this big fight in town over fluoride in the water.

A couple from Texas moved here with their champion horse breeding stock. They bought a small ranch close to town that was on the town water system. Shortly after they got here the horses started getting sick and they couldn't figure out what was going on. The first horse died and the woman had it autopsied and it had died from fluoride poisoning. She had the other horses tested and they all had fluoride poisoning. They lost several horses before they could do anything. They went to the town and demanded that the fluoride be removed from the water and it started a huge fight in the whole county. They had absolute scientific evidence that the fluoride had killed these high dollar championship horses and yet even having enough fluoride in the water to "kill a horse" literally was not enough to convince a huge segment of the population that their children were in danger. They still argued that their kids teeth would get cavities!

In the end the anti-fluoride movement won but it was not a simple fight when it obviously should have been a no brainer with the immense evidence. How we humans adapted and were surviving in an environment that several 1000 pound horses could not survive is a mystery at best. I have no idea how much fluoride alone I was exposed to in that time period but I know it was during the two years in town that my health took a serious turn for the worse and I stopped being able to maintain the weight I was at and lost strength etc. That was followed up by two new cars one that hit a deer after only a couple months and was totaled and then the replacement, and the new manufactured house outside of town off gassing god only knows what other than the obvious bromide.

I knew nothing about bromide at that point. I knew to stay away from fluoride and chlorinated water the best I could which is why we didn't drink the water. They also heavily chlorinated on a schedule you could predict by the smell alone, but we just don't have control of everything around us even when we are aware. That leaves us to protect ourselves as best we can and when it comes to halides the best protection is high levels of iodine and the companion nutrients that these things deplete.

Engtovo

From: mmurra777

Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:37 AM

iodine

Subject: Re: bromine in bread

As I have said, I issued a challenge.I've given some numbers. I expect an equal contribution from others.I expect even the most ill-informed members of this group have repeatedly previously read the hearsay you chose to again waste space repeating.My challenge to you Bruce.How much bromine have you ingested in the last 365 days?Breakout intake amounts by source.Show your sources of information.To anyone on the Celtic salt intake, how much bromine do you ingest in 365 days?MikeM>> Well, consider other sources such as fertilizer, pesticides etc, so it's in > foods and water in some places, fire retardants etc> plastics> > Bruce> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mmurra777> ...> > Assume the same amount of bromine from bread as iodine, 726 ug (0.726 mg) > ingested per day> consumed over a 30 year (1980 to 2010) period> gives a total consumption of bromine as 7,950 mg (.726 *365*30)> > Given a daily urinary excretion on using Lugol's of 66 mg/L> assume only 1 liter of urine excreted per day> over 2 years> total bromine excreted is 48,180 mg> > Please correct me if I am wrong, or unreasonable in my worst case scenario > estimates. If 's lab work is valid (66 mg/l), then in two years, 6 > times as much bromine will have been excreted in urine alone as may have > been consumed (and assumed to have retained all) from baked goods in 30 > years.> > ...>

[Guest guest]

I hear the sound of silence in this and the posts that have followed.

My point is that nobody here has shown the slightest interest in knowing the

truth. I am fully aware, qualitatively, of the toxic environment we have, and

continue to, produced.

Now I am asking (challenging) a group of those who believe that they have been

harmed by the environment that they greedily embraced to start seeking the

facts.

Why should be difficult to estimate what is entering a body?

Example; one buys a new car.

That car has x kg of plastic A, y Kg of B, etc..

Each of those has a know amount of chemical/metal a, b, c, etc.

Off gassing studies have been done, find them.

Why are people not demanding that a car (tv, dvd, etc.) come with a label like a

loaf of bread.

Instead all I am seeing is copy paste noise.

How do you measure?

Using flour as an example. What are your country's, and state's, regulations on

food treatments and additives? If voluntary compliance is the policy, what is

the practice of your supplier? Start lists, and publish them.

Next; let us assume that one is knowingly consuming brominated bread and has

calculated the amount of bromide in a loaf. What amount (percentage) of a loaf

is consumed daily? That is very easy to determine and calculate as I showed for

the general case in my previous post.

Regarding flame retardants; one could start with the total amount of retardant

produced annually, determine the percentage of that you consume (new car every

...., cell phone, cloths, etc.). Next, determine the amount of bromide in the

retardant you are being exposed to. Take a percentage of that as the amount of

bromine ingested per annum.

Follow the same procedure for other chemicals.

MikeM

P.S. As you have brought it up, I am interested in reading the original account,

please provide reference to the source of Brownstein's new car story.

>

> >

> >

> > As I have said, I issued a challenge.

> > I've given some numbers.

> > I expect an equal contribution from others.

> > I expect even the most ill-informed members of this group have repeatedly

> > previously read the hearsay you chose to again waste space repeating.

> >

> > My challenge to you Bruce.

> > How much bromine have you ingested in the last 365 days?

> > Breakout intake amounts by source.

> > Show your sources of information.

> >

> > To anyone on the Celtic salt intake, how much bromine do you ingest in 365

> > days?

> >

> > MikeM

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

As you so eloquently point out - do the research, find the story, read the story....it's much, much easier than what you are asking members of this group to do.  All you have to do is go to Dr. Brownsteins blog.  A simple Google search should lead you to it.

 

And, since you appear to have oodles of time on your hands, and a hankering for extremely detailed information.  Please feel free to do the research you are describing below and please let us know the results.

For example, you state:

 

" ..Regarding flame retardants; one could start with the total amount of retardant produced annually, determine the percentage of that you consume (new car every ..., cell phone, cloths, etc.). Next, determine the amount of bromide in the retardant you are being exposed to. Take a percentage of that as the amount of bromine ingested per annum.... "

 

Please demonstrate how quickly and easily you are able to do what you describe above.  Please make sure to identify every item in your household (each piece of clothing, each item of furniture, appliance, etc...)  Then list each manufacturer, along with their contact info (so we can verify if necessary) and provide the data that you obtain because I'm sure that we all want to know.

 

Again, I ask - why the challenge - what is your point?  If you don't want to take iodine - don't.  If YOU want to know the precise amount of halides you are absorbing do the research & find out.

Why *challenge* a group of relative strangers.....

 

Kendra

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:22 PM, mmurra777 <mmurra777@...> wrote:

 

I hear the sound of silence in this and the posts that have followed.My point is that nobody here has shown the slightest interest in knowing the truth. I am fully aware, qualitatively, of the toxic environment we have, and continue to, produced.

Now I am asking (challenging) a group of those who believe that they have been harmed by the environment that they greedily embraced to start seeking the facts.Why should be difficult to estimate what is entering a body?

Example; one buys a new car.That car has x kg of plastic A, y Kg of B, etc..Each of those has a know amount of chemical/metal a, b, c, etc.Off gassing studies have been done, find them.Why are people not demanding that a car (tv, dvd, etc.) come with a label like a loaf of bread.

Instead all I am seeing is copy paste noise.How do you measure?Using flour as an example. What are your country's, and state's, regulations on food treatments and additives? If voluntary compliance is the policy, what is the practice of your supplier? Start lists, and publish them.

Next; let us assume that one is knowingly consuming brominated bread and has calculated the amount of bromide in a loaf. What amount (percentage) of a loaf is consumed daily? That is very easy to determine and calculate as I showed for the general case in my previous post.

Regarding flame retardants; one could start with the total amount of retardant produced annually, determine the percentage of that you consume (new car every ..., cell phone, cloths, etc.). Next, determine the amount of bromide in the retardant you are being exposed to. Take a percentage of that as the amount of bromine ingested per annum.

Follow the same procedure for other chemicals.MikeMP.S. As you have brought it up, I am interested in reading the original account, please provide reference to the source of Brownstein's new car story.

[Guest guest]

You ask for seeking of facts, generating numbers. Why is that important

to you? I don't understand why I need to try to figure out how much

poison I'm getting. Why waste time on figuring that out and instead

concentrate on eliminating the poison from my home and life instead?

Why would anyone be knowingly eating bread with bromine in it? I no

longer buy baked goods unless it's organic. We make our own food from

scratch as much as possible.

That was why I posted about the King Arthur flour. Bake your own bread

and other flour products. Problem solve-ed, as Inspector Clousseau

would say.

Buy used cars, after they have off-gassed most of their gases. Problem

sort of solved. Or better yet, don't use a car and get a horse. Just

don't give it fluoridated water to drink. Oh, and a buggy but don't put

upholstery on the seats.

Don't buy new carpeting, get rid of what you have.

Get off the computer and get outdoors in the fresh air. Don't keep a

computer in your bedroom.

Get rid of carpeting and anything in your home that you can't wash with

soap and water to clean.

Notice I didn't copy and paste anything, just made noise out of my own

head. I hope it's not bothering anyone else, most of the time I try to

ignore it.

mmurra777 wrote:

>

> I hear the sound of silence in this and the posts that have followed.

> My point is that nobody here has shown the slightest interest in

> knowing the truth. I am fully aware, qualitatively, of the toxic

> environment we have, and continue to, produced.

> Now I am asking (challenging) a group of those who believe that they

> have been harmed by the environment that they greedily embraced to

> start seeking the facts.

>

> Why should be difficult to estimate what is entering a body?

> Example; one buys a new car.

> That car has x kg of plastic A, y Kg of B, etc..

> Each of those has a know amount of chemical/metal a, b, c, etc.

> Off gassing studies have been done, find them.

>

> Why are people not demanding that a car (tv, dvd, etc.) come with a

> label like a loaf of bread.

>

> Instead all I am seeing is copy paste noise.

>

> How do you measure?

> Using flour as an example. What are your country's, and state's,

> regulations on food treatments and additives? If voluntary compliance

> is the policy, what is the practice of your supplier? Start lists, and

> publish them.

> Next; let us assume that one is knowingly consuming brominated bread

> and has calculated the amount of bromide in a loaf. What amount

> (percentage) of a loaf is consumed daily? That is very easy to

> determine and calculate as I showed for the general case in my

> previous post.

>

> Regarding flame retardants; one could start with the total amount of

> retardant produced annually, determine the percentage of that you

> consume (new car every ..., cell phone, cloths, etc.). Next, determine

> the amount of bromide in the retardant you are being exposed to. Take

> a percentage of that as the amount of bromine ingested per annum.

>

> Follow the same procedure for other chemicals.

>

> MikeM

>

> P.S. As you have brought it up, I am interested in reading the

> original account, please provide reference to the source of

> Brownstein's new car story.

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > As I have said, I issued a challenge.

> > > I've given some numbers.

> > > I expect an equal contribution from others.

> > > I expect even the most ill-informed members of this group have

> repeatedly

> > > previously read the hearsay you chose to again waste space repeating.

> > >

> > > My challenge to you Bruce.

> > > How much bromine have you ingested in the last 365 days?

> > > Breakout intake amounts by source.

> > > Show your sources of information.

> > >

> > > To anyone on the Celtic salt intake, how much bromine do you

> ingest in 365

> > > days?

> > >

> > > MikeM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You appear to have mis-read my post.

It addressed only the bromide issue because I had a statement of the amount of

bromine found to be excreted before and after iodine supplementation.

If you re-read my post you should realize that I took an impossible worst case

consumption of baked goods scenario. In addition to using a total in all baked

goods assumption (used the replaced iodine number; bromine having a sp. mass

less than I may even be a lower number than the one I used), and I assumed the

impossible case that 100% of the bromide potentially consumed was never

excreted.

I have been getting on these lists the same defensive postures that I received

from the senior medical specialists I was obliged (to placate those close) to

see two years ago (Valentine's Day '08) when I informed them that their case for

their option of thyroid removal, liver resection (20 to 33% removed), RIA, and

possible external radiotherapy was completely void of factual information as to

even medium term results. Senior oncologist response was that the cancer will

kill me, I will probably chock to death (thyroid swelling), if I do not do as I

have been told.

I have stage IV thyroid met to liver, and (found independently four months

later) Waldenstrom macroglobulinemia, a rare incipient NHL (not the hockey

league). Current condition; liver mets slowly growing, general health

presentation unchanged good. Why?

A poster as asked the question (paraphrased ), is there an infinite amount of

bromine in the body? I've just been asking the same question. I want a

quantitative number answer, and see no reason why worst case numbers cannot be

found.

MikeM

> > For what it's worth,

> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Potassium_ bromate

> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_bromate>

> MikeM

>

[Guest guest]

I want? Send me 10,000.00 and I'll do the tests/measurements.

Or for free I'll guess -- .

Bruce

----- Original Message -----

From: mmurra777

A poster as asked the question (paraphrased ), is there an infinite amount

of bromine in the body? I've just been asking the same question. I want a

quantitative number answer, and see no reason why worst case numbers cannot

be found.

MikeM

[Guest guest]

sorry, that sounded rude.

I don't think anyone can give an exact figure.

All we can do is avoid the halogens and use iodine to detox it.

If needed you can have urine tests done to see amount excreted over time

Bruce

Re: Re: bromine in bread

I want? Send me 10,000.00 and I'll do the tests/measurements.Or for free I'll guess -- .Bruce----- Original Message ----- From: mmurra777A poster as asked the question (paraphrased ), is there an infinite amount of bromine in the body? I've just been asking the same question. I want a quantitative number answer, and see no reason why worst case numbers cannot be found.MikeM

[Guest guest]

Personally, I'd rather keep my focus on the solution rather than the problem. I've researched and educated myself a lot in the past few months - enough to feel comfortable with my "truth" that I have a lot of detoxing to do. I make an effort to avoid the bromide, choloride, flouride toxins as much as possible now, and I'm content to continue this approach. I, personally, don't feel the need (or have the time) to do the type of detailed analysis you're asking for. ..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-¸.·´ .·´¨¨))((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:--:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

From: mmurra777 <mmurra777@...>iodine Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 2:22:30 PMSubject: Re: bromine in bread

I hear the sound of silence in this and the posts that have followed.My point is that nobody here has shown the slightest interest in knowing the truth. I am fully aware, qualitatively, of the toxic environment we have, and continue to, produced.Now I am asking (challenging) a group of those who believe that they have been harmed by the environment that they greedily embraced to start seeking the facts.Why should be difficult to estimate what is entering a body?Example; one buys a new car.That car has x kg of plastic A, y Kg of B, etc..Each of those has a know amount of chemical/metal a, b, c, etc.Off gassing studies have been done, find them.Why are people not demanding that a car (tv, dvd, etc.) come with a label like a loaf of bread.Instead all I am seeing is copy paste noise.How do you measure?Using flour as an example. What are your country's, and state's, regulations on food treatments

and additives? If voluntary compliance is the policy, what is the practice of your supplier? Start lists, and publish them.Next; let us assume that one is knowingly consuming brominated bread and has calculated the amount of bromide in a loaf. What amount (percentage) of a loaf is consumed daily? That is very easy to determine and calculate as I showed for the general case in my previous post.Regarding flame retardants; one could start with the total amount of retardant produced annually, determine the percentage of that you consume (new car every ..., cell phone, cloths, etc.). Next, determine the amount of bromide in the retardant you are being exposed to. Take a percentage of that as the amount of bromine ingested per annum.Follow the same procedure for other chemicals.MikeMP.S. As you have brought it up, I am interested in reading the original account, please provide reference to the source of Brownstein's new car

story.> > >> >> > As I have said, I issued a challenge.> > I've given some numbers.> > I expect an equal contribution from others.> > I expect even the most ill-informed members of this group have repeatedly> > previously read the hearsay you chose to again waste space repeating.> >> > My challenge to you Bruce.> > How much bromine have you ingested in the last 365 days?> > Breakout intake amounts by source.> > Show your sources of information.> >> > To anyone on the Celtic salt intake, how much bromine do you ingest in 365> > days?> >> > MikeM> >> >>

>>

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with you re lifestyle. I leave the buggies to the local old

order mennonites, my car was 26 months old when I purchased it nine years ago.

I rarely use it for any trip that is shorter than a 40 minute walk.

To your very important question.

Why? Knowledge is power.

If I am doing a drug (taking iodine and salt to 'detox' constitutes a drug type

usage)protocol to remove toxins I want to know when I should expect to complete

that protocol, and if not why not.

In our little case of bromine we are assuming that excretion amounts can be

easily measured. I am asking how much bromine is in me, how much is being added

each day, am I excreting more than my daily consumption, and given that

information how long will it take to get that one toxin out.

Having done so, will I not then be over-medicating?

We now accept that the mis-use and over use of antibiotics is now creating a

super-bug potential nightmare, why should we continue blissfully down the same

road.

MikeM

P.S. Brominated flour has been banned here in Canada for many years.

None the less, it would not surprise me to discovery that many Canadian list

members assume brominated baked goods to be a significant contributor to their

problems. If they could just get that bromine out of their system they could

continue to consume their favourite refined flour, high sugar, paragraph long

list of preservatives (I barely know what most of the list is for, and I have

studied biochemistry) goodies.

>

> You ask for seeking of facts, generating numbers. Why is that important

> to you? I don't understand why I need to try to figure out how much

> poison I'm getting. Why waste time on figuring that out and instead

> concentrate on eliminating the poison from my home and life instead?

>

> Why would anyone be knowingly eating bread with bromine in it? I no

> longer buy baked goods unless it's organic. We make our own food from

> scratch as much as possible.

[Guest guest]

Mike-- I hear your tone as angry and calling me/us names such as greedy

(when I'm here to learn about iodine). Maybe if you started speaking with

some respect I would have more of an idea what you are trying to get

across. You seem to be saying we have no right to seek health if we don't

know the exact numbers of how we're being poisoned. I don't have time for

this-- and I don't appreciate the name calling.

--

At 02:22 PM 2/21/2010, you wrote:

>I hear the sound of silence in this and the posts that have followed.

>My point is that nobody here has shown the slightest interest in knowing

>the truth. I am fully aware, qualitatively, of the toxic environment we

>have, and continue to, produced.

>Now I am asking (challenging) a group of those who believe that they have

>been harmed by the environment that they greedily embraced to start

>seeking the facts.

>

>Why should be difficult to estimate what is entering a body?

>Example; one buys a new car.

>That car has x kg of plastic A, y Kg of B, etc..

>Each of those has a know amount of chemical/metal a, b, c, etc.

>Off gassing studies have been done, find them.

>

>Why are people not demanding that a car (tv, dvd, etc.) come with a label

>like a loaf of bread.

>

>Instead all I am seeing is copy paste noise.

>

>

>How do you measure?

>Using flour as an example. What are your country's, and state's,

>regulations on food treatments and additives? If voluntary compliance is

>the policy, what is the practice of your supplier? Start lists, and

>publish them.

>Next; let us assume that one is knowingly consuming brominated bread and

>has calculated the amount of bromide in a loaf. What amount (percentage)

>of a loaf is consumed daily? That is very easy to determine and calculate

>as I showed for the general case in my previous post.

>

>Regarding flame retardants; one could start with the total amount of

>retardant produced annually, determine the percentage of that you consume

>(new car every ..., cell phone, cloths, etc.). Next, determine the amount

>of bromide in the retardant you are being exposed to. Take a percentage

>of that as the amount of bromine ingested per annum.

>

>Follow the same procedure for other chemicals.

>

>MikeM

>

>P.S. As you have brought it up, I am interested in reading the original

>account, please provide reference to the source of Brownstein's new car story.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > As I have said, I issued a challenge.

> > > I've given some numbers.

> > > I expect an equal contribution from others.

> > > I expect even the most ill-informed members of this group have repeatedly

> > > previously read the hearsay you chose to again waste space repeating.

> > >

> > > My challenge to you Bruce.

> > > How much bromine have you ingested in the last 365 days?

> > > Breakout intake amounts by source.

> > > Show your sources of information.

> > >

> > > To anyone on the Celtic salt intake, how much bromine do you ingest

> in 365

> > > days?

> > >

> > > MikeM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------

>

>All off topic posts should go to the IodineOT

>group IodineOT/

>

>

>Commonly asked questions: http://tinyurl.com/yhnds5e

[Guest guest]

Of course, Mike. You are the only truth seeker in the whole world (cough,

cough).

It might ease your frustration if you realized that you were given a passionate

aptitude for crunching numbers. More so than average (o;. Some people very

much enjoy the activity of compiling vast amounts of statistics.

For others, myself included, it's like watching paint dry. Knowing those

numbers won't make me heal any faster. And I am not even a tiny bit curious

about them. But you are. And that is what makes us individuals, not clones of

each other.

Enjoy yourself, please, whatever you do. Maybe look into Low Dose Naltrexone.

~

> Am I the only one on these lists seeking fact, not hearsay and out right

untruths.

>

>

> MikeM

[Guest guest]

"P.S. Brominated flour has been banned here in Canada for many years.None the less, it would not surprise me to discovery that many Canadian list members assume brominated baked goods to be a significant contributor to their problems. If they could just get that bromine out of their system they could continue to consume their favourite refined flour, high sugar, paragraph long list of preservatives (I barely know what most of the list is for, and I have studied biochemistry) goodies."

As a Canadian I can answer in part. First, I assume nothing of the kind. I am aware it is not used in baked goods here.

Secondly, I purchase little food in stores, as little as possible including meat. No bread products whatsoever. No pasta almost.

What's sugar? I use very little and basically no boxed/processed "food"\

Thirdly, iodine is not a drug. It is an element that is essential to health that has been depleted from our soil through a number of processes.

then it's also a natural medicine to detox the halides industry has added to our food, soil, and water. Higher amounts aid immunty and a number of other things in our system.

I see you have not studied it. Please do so;

http://www.iodine4health.com/index.htm

See left menu, there is an enormous amount here.

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

See the 24 documents there.

When done all these two sites I can answer questions

Bruce

Re: bromine in bread

I totally agree with you re lifestyle. I leave the buggies to the local old order mennonites, my car was 26 months old when I purchased it nine years ago. I rarely use it for any trip that is shorter than a 40 minute walk. To your very important question.Why? Knowledge is power.If I am doing a drug (taking iodine and salt to 'detox' constitutes a drug type usage)protocol to remove toxins I want to know when I should expect to complete that protocol, and if not why not.In our little case of bromine we are assuming that excretion amounts can be easily measured. I am asking how much bromine is in me, how much is being added each day, am I excreting more than my daily consumption, and given that information how long will it take to get that one toxin out.Having done so, will I not then be over-medicating? We now accept that the mis-use and over use of antibiotics is now creating a super-bug potential nightmare, why should we continue blissfully down the same road.MikeM P.S. Brominated flour has been banned here in Canada for many years.None the less, it would not surprise me to discovery that many Canadian list members assume brominated baked goods to be a significant contributor to their problems. If they could just get that bromine out of their system they could continue to consume their favourite refined flour, high sugar, paragraph long list of preservatives (I barely know what most of the list is for, and I have studied biochemistry) goodies.>> You ask for seeking of facts, generating numbers. Why is that important > to you? I don't understand why I need to try to figure out how much > poison I'm getting. Why waste time on figuring that out and instead > concentrate on eliminating the poison from my home and life instead?> > Why would anyone be knowingly eating bread with bromine in it? I no > longer buy baked goods unless it's organic. We make our own food from > scratch as much as possible.

[Guest guest]

I have not been asking for exact figures, just worst case scenarios.

Why should I do anything without question and thought.

Focusing on a solution without specifying the problem was a guaranteed method

for the receipt a failing grade when I was in school, and continuing failures on

the job and in life.

List members are having excretion tests done, some on a regular basis.

I am saying put the information to use.

As observed about the bromine mine.

Can one trust the tests?

I have 'severe chronic kidney disease'. That is, based solely on blood

creatinine levels. That finding is what led to the discoveries of the cancers

that I actually do have. Long story, not so long; companion drags me to her

doctor, in July '07, because of minor ongoing mid -back pain in the area of

where we thought kidney is. Doctor runs blood work - creatinine through the

roof (295 ref: 60 - 110 umol/L). To verify, has me repeat blood work - result

is normal level. Arranges for specialist and has me do a 'tie breaker' (less

than a month has passed) - creatinine again through the roof. Months pass,

specialist runs full battery, urinary system in excellent condition, other

things found in passing not so good, including two lesions on liver. Time goes

by, about 14 months after last previous visit to her/my doctor (his practice is

a two hr drive from my place, he was just one of her many, I avoid doctors like

the plague) I visit to get some tests (I'm a test junkie) that I cannot wrangle

from the hematologist (see other posts), he includes the creatinine. It comes

back again through the roof. Here's the kicker. I inform the Dr. during our

visit that I am scheduled for routine tracking blood work at the cancer centre

within the week. He tells me to take his req. to the clinic and have them add

his tests to their work. They politely refuse (a funding thing) as I knew they

would. Took his req to a local private lab (national organization), had that

blood draw less than three hours after the cancer centre draw. Creatinine is

always included on my quarterly centre blood work.

Next visit to Dr. (to pick up special order of fish oil (waste of money for me),

he means well, has very best prices (must be at or near cost) on the supps he

stocks, and is very open minded to alternative treatments, he's and M.D.) a few

weeks later. His first words; " We have to get you into a hospital now " . His

lab report - creatinine through the roof. I had no symptoms, even the back

discomfort has disappeared months ago. Plus, I had received no calls from the

clinic about the result of their blood work. Emergency call from Dr. to

hematologist back home. More blood work same day here at my home town cancer

clinic (hemo and oncology work together at clinic). Creatinine normal. Other

lab anomalies have occurred.

Bottom line. If you do not know what is in you how can you believe anything

about what you are being told about what is being excreted out of you.

MikeM

P.S. My apologies to all for the long winded posts and my disturbing the status

quo.

>

> sorry, that sounded rude.

> I don't think anyone can give an exact figure.

> All we can do is avoid the halogens and use iodine to detox it.

> If needed you can have urine tests done to see amount excreted over time

>

> Bruce

>

> Re: Re: bromine in bread

>

>

>

> I want? Send me 10,000.00 and I'll do the tests/measurements.

> Or for free I'll guess -- .

>

> Bruce

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: mmurra777

>

> A poster as asked the question (paraphrased ), is there an infinite amount

> of bromine in the body? I've just been asking the same question. I want a

> quantitative number answer, and see no reason why worst case numbers cannot

> be found.

>

> MikeM

>