Re: Amount of protein to eat daily

[Guest guest]

I personally think that if you feel good, have good energy and strength then you

are doing something right. I don't necessarily agree with & 's high

dose of protein for everybody. I am a thin 165 lbs.( I'm 6' tall ) and probably

average 50 - 75 gms daily. I think

this is where you need to pay attention to your individual system.

KM

michael_vandelaar <mike_vandelaar@...> wrote:

A few moons ago, there was a lengthy discussion on how much protein

to eat per day based on body weight.

He checked the USDA website and found that we should

eat 1 gram of protein per 1 pound of body weight. He also suggested

that to calculate the amount of protein in food, we should use a

simple formula: for each ounce of meat, there are 7 grams of protein.

A large egg is also 7 grams of protein.\

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I had a bit of time on my hands so I thought I'd check out a few

sources on the internet about daily protein intake.

I went to the USDA website and found that the RDI for protein is in

fact 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight!!!!!!

Here's a link to a pdf of the RDI tables:

http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/21/372/0.pdf

I have checked websites from several governments around the world,

including my own, Australia, and they all specify the same amount.

So, instead of 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, we're now

looking at 0.36 grams of protein per pound of body weight.

Based on this calculation, all I need on a daily basis is 55 grams of

protein, not 152.

Further to this, I decided to calculate my protein intake based on

the values in Typebase. I've only counted meat & eggs and not protein

from other sources like walnuts:

3 eggs @ 7gr = 21

7oz of beef @ 4.25gr = 29.75

7oz of venison @ 6.25gr = 43.75

Total = 94.5

This is kind of an average day for me.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Would I be healthier upping my protein intake? Or would I just be

excreting the excess?

===================================

Any contributions to this discussion would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and if anyone reads this as if I'm getting stuck into now

that he's left the group, that is not my intention. I'm just trying

to work out how much protein to eat.

Cheers,

[Guest guest]

michael_vandelaar wrote:I've only counted meat & eggs and not protein

> from other sources like walnuts:

> 3 eggs @ 7gr = 21

> 7oz of beef @ 4.25gr = 29.75

> 7oz of venison @ 6.25gr = 43.75

> Total = 94.5

> This is kind of an average day for me.

> What do the rest of you use?

I find the one gram of protein per pound or person works really well for

me. I do not convert to ounces, just use the grams as you have above here.

> I know I feel healthier than I ever have. I don't feel compelled to

> eat any more protein. But, saying that, I don't feel compelled to

> take a calcium supplement but I do because my dietary intake of

> calcium does not equal the RDI.

As regards calcium - we leach calcium from bones at a regular rate and

replace it - however the amount of Vit K we get from *natural* sources

(for K1 and K2 not the K3 synthetic) determines whether we lose it fast

or slow. Vit K keeps calcium in the bones.

Best sources for K1 are spinach, kale, collards (great for all O types)

and best sources for K2 are fermented foods such as cheese and yogurt

(not great for non-secretors like me). The idea is to get 1000

micrograms a day. To do that requires a cup of cooked spinach to give an

example, half a cup having 512 micrograms.

The second way to leach out the calcium - bearing in mind that failing

to lose it is another way to not need to ingest and absorb as much -

is to do with sodium. Sodium leaches out calcium very efficiently.

My own latest bone test with zero dairy as I am a nonsecretor - is

reported as " bones of a 30 year old " , and I'm 56. I eat a VERY low salt

diet - I never add salt and maybe eat 1000mg a day - and I eat a high

potassium diet which also helps the salt balance and thus indirectly the

calcium one. I practically live on beef and spinach - and so there's the

basic formula for strong bones. My main sources of calcium are canned

sardines, canned salmon, and a magnesium/calcium supplement (Slowmag).

> So, what I feel like eating and what

> I should be eating do not always match.

> Would I be healthier upping my protein intake? Or would I just be

> excreting the excess?

The USDA stuff is designed to keep people from dying of starvation and

is not geared to being as healthy as possible.

Eat about 1 gram per pound - it is also pretty much what Adelle davis

showed to be healthy back in the 1930s, it is not news that to be really

healthy you need lots of protein.

Your body can burn off protein as calories for anything it wants if you

eat too much - but it can not use fat or carbs to perform protein tasks

- so the protein is the most important fuel to get in the right amounts.

> Also I found an article on PubMed which says that increasing protein

> intake to 0.68gr/pound of body weight will help with weight loss

It does help weight loss because you can replace fat with muscle only if

you eat enough protein to build it :-)

Low carbs and high mono-unsaturated fat is the other half of the weight

loss equation.

Namaste,

IRene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

I've only counted meat & eggs and not

protein

> > from other sources like walnuts:

> > 3 eggs @ 7gr = 21

> > 7oz of beef @ 4.25gr = 29.75

> > 7oz of venison @ 6.25gr = 43.75

> > Total = 94.5

> > This is kind of an average day for me.

> > What do the rest of you use?

>

> I find the one gram of protein per pound or person works really

well for

> me. I do not convert to ounces, just use the grams as you have

above here.

>

Thanks for the reply, Irene.

So, according to that formula, I need 152 grams of protein. Do you

use the 7 grams of protein per ounce of meat formula or are the

Typebase values closer to the mark or do you use some other source?

And why? How do you choose a source of information?

This is my main problem. I don't have a scientific background so I

kind of have to believe one or other of these values.

If I adopt the values on Typebase I need to come up with at least

another 50 grams of protein a day. Another 7 eggs or another 10oz of

meat perhaps? And I don't think I could do that.

If I use the generic 7 grams per ounce of meat formula, then I only

need to come up with another 4 ounces of meat.

And, as you say later in your post:

> - so the protein is the most important fuel to get in the right

amounts.

>

It's the right amounts that I'm trying to work out.

Cheers,

[Guest guest]

I myself have problems with measurements, I just can't follow that

kind of instruction emotionally....

also gave an alternative for folks like me, which was to eat a

fist sized piece of meat with each meal. and add some fat and

vegetables. That sounds reasonable to me. That's an instruction I can

follow.

So, , this note probably isn't helpful to you, if you want

measurements, but maybe someone else reading this will relate.

If you feel good, I would think you are doing OK. Good luck.

- T

>

> A few moons ago, there was a lengthy discussion on how much protein

> to eat per day based on body weight.

>

> said that he checked the USDA website and found that we should

> eat 1 gram of protein per 1 pound of body weight. He also suggested

> that to calculate the amount of protein in food, we should use a

> simple formula: for each ounce of meat, there are 7 grams of protein.

> A large egg is also 7 grams of protein.

> At the time, I pointed out that 7 grams of protein per ounce of meat

> did not match the info in Typebase. In Typebase, there are 4.25 grams

> of protein per ounce of meat. He said to just use the 7gram/oz

> formula.

> OK, I went away and followed this formula, did my calculations and

> found that, according to these recommendations, I was not consuming

> enough protein for my body weight.

> I weigh 152lbs and I was consuming about 100 grams of protein (based

> on the 7 grams/oz). I was musing over how to increase my intake and

> contemplated getting protein drinks and all sorts.

>

> I had a bit of time on my hands so I thought I'd check out a few

> sources on the internet about daily protein intake.

> I went to the USDA website and found that the RDI for protein is in

> fact 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight!!!!!!

> Here's a link to a pdf of the RDI tables:

> http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/21/372/0.pdf

> I have checked websites from several governments around the world,

> including my own, Australia, and they all specify the same amount.

> So, instead of 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, we're now

> looking at 0.36 grams of protein per pound of body weight.

> Based on this calculation, all I need on a daily basis is 55 grams of

> protein, not 152.

> Further to this, I decided to calculate my protein intake based on

> the values in Typebase. I've only counted meat & eggs and not protein

> from other sources like walnuts:

> 3 eggs @ 7gr = 21

> 7oz of beef @ 4.25gr = 29.75

> 7oz of venison @ 6.25gr = 43.75

> Total = 94.5

> This is kind of an average day for me. I might eat more meat

> occasionally but never less.

> I know as Os we thrive on animal protein and it seems that we can

> consume more than the average person. But do I look at these figures

> and say that I'm consuming more than the RDI of protein or do I use

> ' formula and say I'm woefully inadequate?

> What do the rest of you use?

> I know I feel healthier than I ever have. I don't feel compelled to

> eat any more protein. But, saying that, I don't feel compelled to

> take a calcium supplement but I do because my dietary intake of

> calcium does not equal the RDI. So, what I feel like eating and what

> I should be eating do not always match.

> Would I be healthier upping my protein intake? Or would I just be

> excreting the excess?

>

> The USDA site also says that if you are very athletic, you could get

> away with between 0.45gr and 0.68gr of protein per pound of body

> weight which gets closer to ' formula of 1 gr per pound of body

> weight.

>

> Also I found an article on PubMed which says that increasing protein

> intake to 0.68gr/pound of body weight will help with weight loss:

>

> ======================

> Protein Quantity and Quality at Levels above the RDA Improves Adult

> Weight Loss.

>

> Layman, DK.

>

> 437 Bevier Hall, University of Illinois, 905 South Goodwin, Urbana,

> IL 61801, dlayman@u...

>

> Evidence is accumulating that diets with reduced carbohydrates and

> increased levels of high quality protein are effective for weight

> loss. These diets appear to provide a metabolic advantage during

> restricted energy intake that targets increased loss of body fat

> while reducing loss of lean tissue and stabilizing regulations of

> blood glucose. We have proposed that the branched-chain amino acid

> leucine is a key to the metabolic advantage of a higher protein diet

> because of its unique roles in regulation of muscle protein

> synthesis, insulin signaling and glucose re-cycling via alanine.

> These metabolic actions of leucine require plasma and intracellular

> concentrations to increase above minimum levels maintained by current

> dietary guidelines and dietary practices in the U.S. Initial findings

> support use of dietary at levels above 1.5 g/kg . d during weight

> loss. Further, our research suggests that increased use of high

> quality protein at breakfast maybe important for the metabolic

> advantage of a higher protein diet.

>

> PMID: 15640518 [PubMed - in process]

>

> ===================================

>

> Any contributions to this discussion would be greatly appreciated.

> Oh, and if anyone reads this as if I'm getting stuck into now

> that he's left the group, that is not my intention. I'm just trying

> to work out how much protein to eat.

>

> Cheers,

>

[Guest guest]

michael_vandelaar wrote:

> Thanks for the reply, Irene.

> So, according to that formula, I need 152 grams of protein. Do you

> use the 7 grams of protein per ounce of meat formula or are the

> Typebase values closer to the mark or do you use some other source?

Hi,

I do not use ounces at all. I just look up grams of protein either on

the nutrition label of the item (like the Salmon patties I get at

Costco) or in the Nutrition Almanac which I find a very useful book.

> And why? How do you choose a source of information?

Nutrition labels by law apparently (per a WA State nutrition instructor)

have to be within 20% - which is not too accurate!!! But I consider it

okay enough.

The Almanac is from analysed food values, so that's accurate.

I also may need more protein than average - bear in mind that I am a

non-secretor and an Rh negative as well as being O and D'Adamo points

out that both those things influence and raise protein requirements over

those of RH-pos and secretors.

I found that eating less protein actually dropped my blood protein in my

lab tests to below normal at one point. So there's a another way to

check whether your protein intake is enough. Mine obviously was not -

and I increased it significantly and now my blood protein is at least in

mid-range. It probably should be high range but that's hard to achieve

with the illness I have.

So I would suggest you see what a gram per pound does for you - and then

adjust it to be optimal according to what feels right and it should look

right in your lab tests too.

> This is my main problem. I don't have a scientific background so I

> kind of have to believe one or other of these values.

On what's optimum for your body will depend on so many things - your

activity level, your metabolic rate, your secretor and Rh status. So

there will not be an ideal someone else can tell you. I suggest there is

no harm from " too much " but plenty of harm from too little.

As regards a rule to estimate grams per ounce of food, Dr Bernstein's

diabetes solution book is one I respect highly because I know his facts

are really straight in there - and he suggests using 6g per ounce as a

rough guide for high quality protein like meat and egg.

The reason you get different factors is that each food has a

different number of grams of protein per ounce - there is no rule that

fits all foods. The Bernstein diet is a high protein one much like ours,

and 6 grams per ounce is a good compromise he says - I agree.

uses 7 - also good enough.

> If I adopt the values on Typebase I need to come up with at least

> another 50 grams of protein a day. Another 7 eggs or another 10oz of

> meat perhaps? And I don't think I could do that.

It takes a lot of eggs to get a lot of protein - it is easier to get

from beef or fish. One salmon pattie has 32g protein for example, so one

and a half of those would do your 50g. I like a salmon pattie plus two

jumbo eggs (8g each) and some spinach as a small meal - that's 50.

> If I use the generic 7 grams per ounce of meat formula, then I only

> need to come up with another 4 ounces of meat.

To illustrate how protein varies in foods:

Per Nutrition Almanac - 4 oz of beef chuck roast is 35.2g of protein, so

good beef is 8.8g per ounce, call it 9. Venison is the same.

On the other hand, flank steak is only 22g for 4 oz, so 5.5g per ounce,

and beef brains is only 3g protein per ounce. Liver is 7g per ounce.

This variation is partly why I am using the almanac and actual protein

grams rather than the rule of thumb conversion - it can be quite off

base when you are trying to figure out what's going on with which amount

of protein. One I have my diet ratios for protein, fat and carbs down

pat, then I find it is easy to get a rule of thumb for me as to how much

beef, egg, fish and sausage I need in a day.

> It's the right amounts that I'm trying to work out.

I did not find it automatic to find mine either. But I did find more

accurate figures on grams of protein useful while I was trying to plan

what was best for me. There's a big difference if you are calculating on

5.5 when in actual fact you are eating 8.8 type protein - or vice

versa. And a 3-egg jumbo omelette is not like a large-egg one either.

My starting point was a combination between my gram per weight rule of

thumb and the D'aDAmo servings listed for my blood type of protein

including nonsecretor and Rh. He has a range - and for me I took the

upper end. Fine tuning came with blood tests - after a few months on a

specific diet amount. I discovered I needed to go higher if anything.

I hope that helps a bit. Have FUN planning meals that sound good to you

- it puts you in a better more receptive mood for feedback.

I think you need to experiment and " hear " what your body likes too.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

I'm a complusive weigher and measurer (to the point of buying meat and then

weighing it out into 6 ounce portions before I freeze it).

To keep track, I have a " recipe " in my MasterCook program just to track my

food intake. The " nutrition " tab tells you as you enter the number of grams

for fat, protein and carbs. I guess about the only thing I can say is that

seeing it in print, and committing to enter *everything* I eat helps me with

compliance, and this program really helps. Or, if you know a woman who goes

to " Curves " , they have a pocket companion that does the same thing. You can

add foods to the food list that are not already on there, but there's a

limited amount - MasterCook is only limited by your hard drive. This method

really keeps me on track for protein - and I prepare roughly half of my food

for the day the night before. When I get up, my breakfast is ready to throw

in the blender and spin and my lunch is in a zip lock in the fridge (I keep

my romaine/dressing/snacks at school, so all I really have to pack ahead are

perishibles). Since I already have my salads weighed and packed (and at

school) weeknights are not a big hassle.

The other thing with MasterCook is that I have a " My Diet " cook book set up,

with Low-Carb/ER4YT recipes - that makes it a lot easier to keep from

getting bored, I make a commitment to try something new every week. When I

set up the cook book, I was on Atkins, without the BTD, so now I'm slowly

going through and deleting the recipes that are not right for my blood type

(or playing with them until they do)

There are several reasons I started a new group - that's one. This group is

without a moderator/owner and the newest recipe in the file is from 2002.

I'm wanting to have files with recipes to share.

Anyway - MasterCook helps me to stay on track.

;-) Ellen

Re: Amount of protein to eat daily

> Do you

> use the 7 grams of protein per ounce of meat formula or are the

> Typebase values closer to the mark or do you use some other source?

> And why? How do you choose a source of information?

> This is my main problem. I don't have a scientific background so I

> kind of have to believe one or other of these values.

[Guest guest]

I don't think meant to imply that the USDA was recommending that much

protein. He knows better. He probably was just referring to their guidelines on

the amount of protein per oz. of meat.

Gretchen

Amount of protein to eat daily

A few moons ago, there was a lengthy discussion on how much protein

to eat per day based on body weight.

said that he checked the USDA website and found that we should

eat 1 gram of protein per 1 pound of body weight. He also suggested

that to calculate the amount of protein in food, we should use a

simple formula: for each ounce of meat, there are 7 grams of protein.

A large egg is also 7 grams of protein.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all your advice.

I won't sweat the details anymore, I promise.

Just to clear things up ... I can't read the nutrition values of the

packets of meat that I buy. I don't buy it in packets. I get it from

my local butcher. I watch him cut my scotch fillet off the slab of

meat. Yummy!!

Cheers,

[Guest guest]

> I also may need more protein than average - bear in mind that I am

a

> non-secretor and an Rh negative as well as being O and D'Adamo

points

> out that both those things influence and raise protein requirements

over

> those of RH-pos and secretors.

>

> I found that eating less protein actually dropped my blood protein

in my

> lab tests to below normal at one point. So there's a another way

to

> check whether your protein intake is enough. Mine obviously was

not -

> and I increased it significantly and now my blood protein is at

least in

> mid-range. It probably should be high range but that's hard to

achieve

> with the illness I have.

>

I promise I'm not sweating over the details :-)

But I just happen to be having a blood test in a couple of weeks. I

too am Rh-neg. I don't know my secretor status.

What is " normal " level of blood protein?

And while I'm at it, what other things should I get tested for?

Cheers,