Re: bedside manners

[Guest guest]

This is horrible - my neighbour has cancer in her neck/back of the head area.

She starts radiotherapy this coming week. I have avoided asking that and just

talked about positive things going on to try and keep her spirits up - when she

talks about it then I respond but I let her decide whether she wants to talk

about it or not. I figure if it was me then I wouldn't want it to take over

everything and no-one ever talk to me about anything else anymore.

Would your friend be interested in taking a look at the Budwig Protocol ? It is

very successful for some.

http://www.budwigflax.com/Articles/Dr%20Budwig.htm

http://www.cancertutor.com/

http://www.veg-it.com/nutrition/cancer_fighting_foods.htm

I think the main thing is for you to be strong for them but in a very unobvious

way - altho all people are different and he may need an obvious show of support

and strength - maybe you just need to take your cues from him or his wife.

Good luck

)

The problem with many things

is the pre-conceived ideas we have about them!

Tishan

http://www.freewebs.com/inspire/

[Guest guest]

Tamara Tornado wrote:

> I'm not sure if " bedside manners " is the right word for what I want to

> ask...

>

> My close friend's husband has cancer, very seriously. There is some

> hope that he will recover, but it will be a fight.

>

> I'm sad and frustrated to say that I don't know how to respond.

Dear Tamara,

I have some suggestions. I was diagnosed with a terminal disease a few

times so far - age 15, then again 2000 with breast cancer and then 2001

with inoperable cushings I'd had since 1998. I've beaten each prediction

so far - and the latest one was day before Xmas, not great timing to

find cancer again. I've chosen not to tell people in general (except I

just am breaking that decision here incase it is helpful somehow),

mainly because they tend to treat you as if you are already dead (for

the good reason that they are in shock about it too and are responding

to THEIR feelings and I feel too drained to be able to comfort THEM so

early after diagnosis) when actually it is just a phase of life.

Not everyone sees it the same way - we are all different. I would

suggest being sure to approach the situation as a " phase of LIFE " like

any other with special features - and not a " prelude to death " .

The truth is that they we may all die tomorrow under a truck, and we

would not want to be treated strangely if that were known - just

compassionately. We'd want compassion but we'd also want to LIVE the

life we had left. So approach it as helping them to enjoy the phase of

life they have.

My dad died of cancer in a short illness. What we did each day was to

figure what he might be able/like to do the next day. Usually it was

less than planned, but the fun was as much in the planning as in the doing.

While he was bedridden but not too weak to move, I got him toys. For

example a toy gun that shoots pingpong balls to shoot at the nurses as

they walked by the hospital ward where he had a room on his own. We

arranged a visiting schedule so he would not be alone, and later we

polished up on morse code so he could talk by blinking after he could no

lomnger move. (He knew it from 2nd world war; I knew it for my ocean

pilot license). The point is to have things to look forward to as in any

phase of life and things to enjoy in the moment with what abilities are

available.

For another bedridden fellow I knew who was dying, his wife got him a

kitten from me and I trained it to fetch little things he threw from the

bed - and the kitten was a constant fun companion and distraction.

For people still walking about, treat them the same as you would if the

diagnosis was lless dire - apart from being sensitive to the fact the

same as you would any other illness. " I'm sorry your health threw you a

curve " sort of thing. " Is there anything I can do that would be useful

to you? If you think of something don't hesitate to tell me, here's my

number. "

The terminal person is living a life whether it's shorter than desired

or not. It's always the part the have left that you can be involved

with. If they want to discuss the " knowing " about the terminal situation

- let them bring it up and treat it as normal conversation. We all will

die - and the final stage of life is a stage like any other stage - to

be treated with respect for the life remaining and compassion for the

conditions of that phase.

I have a similar situation for animals daily as I deal mainly with

terminal cases, and our society does not prepare us to handle the final

phase of life. The trick is to honor it as a stage of life. I find my

clients manage much better if I suggest that approach. they are

terrified of losing their pet and it is indeed an attitude adjustment

that can make a big difference.

Sometimes the terminal person needs to talk about death - and it should

be an accepted topic, but who they talk with depends how close you are

and how open you are to treating it as a subject and not a loss. If your

feelings of upsetness are too strong to allow support for the other

person, rather wait till they are nore settled. My best friend Eileen

died this year of pancreatic cancer and I was one of the few people she

discussed it with in detail. I think it helped to have someone willing

to hear her feelings and her fears without freaking out. She was

frightened by the horrid symptoms and suddenness and actually she died

way before expected, 4 days later when a minor procedure (supposedly)

went wrong.

Some people are better for consolation - others are worse for it. We're

all different - no mater what phase of life it is. Personality does not

change because one is terminal, so just go by whether they are introvert

or extrovert, be normal as they are alive not dead - see the life phase

and be sensitive to its conditions at the time but leave the expected

possible death for them to bring up if they wish.

In my case apart from now I have told only my closest friend my new

diagnosis, as I needed her comfort and it helps to share with someone -

but nobody else till now because it is still such a shock to me that I

can't emotionally also handle the shock response of other people. My

poor friend - it was such a huge shock to her too - maybe more than to

me in some ways as I at least knew it was a possibility. So I feel bad

shocking her and yet I needed support, a tricky one.

IF I could tell other people without a shock response, I'd tell them

ONLY because of the way the *symptoms* might affect our relationship -

not because it is possibly terminal - we all are terminal - it's the way

it is while I am alive that can and will affect others - same as any

non-terminal illness. There's a level of acceptance I get from special

friends that has compassion without adding stress if that makes sense?

> Of

> course, I call, and I went to visit, and I will visit again. I feel

> frightened, paralyzed, awkward... the awkward is terrible.

It's a natural reaction. But remember you do NOT have the problem, so

you need to try to feel their perspective rather than your own shock if

you can try to swap that round (not easy, but trying to put yourself in

their shoes may help so you can focus on suporting them while you are

with them rather than your own shock which if you can handle that

sseparately would help), but then see the life in the person - not the

(maybe) death. Honor the life phase.

> I called today and asked cheerfully, " Are you feeling better? "

Perfect:-))

Someone can be physically worse and still feel emotionally better due to

getting more used to the diagnosis and conditions - and due to cheerful

questions like that which have a positive psychological effect to help

you feel better simply by the suggestion.

I would HATE to be asked if I feel worse (even if it is obvious) or have

someone constantly saying soemthing negative (even though well meant to

be sympathetic - it's too hard to stay positive myslef - that's what

needs help).

I find that sympathy followed by something positive feels good to me

when there is obvious need to say something sympathetic - like oh I am

sorry you feel less well than you'd like; then go onto something

positive or distracting. Don't leave it on the negative note. To always

end positive while still being compassionate helps a lot when one feels

lousy. That would be my number one request of friends.

It's like when you read a list of things - the last one is best

remembered - so make it positive :-)

> I'm more used to the kind of illness that you are definately going to

> recover from. I can be cheerful and positive and supportive. With my

> friend facing death, I don't know what to say.

The same :-))

He's not facing death - he's facing a stage of life. Honor that stage of

life. The death you can honor after he has passed. Even if he wants to

plan for what happens after death - the planning is part of the life not

part of the death. Does that help?

Those are my thoughts.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/2005 5:03:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tamaratornado@... writes:

I called today and asked cheerfully, " Are you feeling better? " - then

after the words popped out of my mouth, I thought uh-oh, what if he's

not feeling better; and I said, " I'm sorry maybe I shouldn't ask like

that... " and He said, " It's OK you can ask.... pause... I'm holding my

own. " I felt like such an insensitive oaf.

Girl, you're going to blow your head up with indecision. Just be polite and

natural and follow their lead just like you would with anyone else; otherwise,

you make them feel self conscience. We live in this time of ridiculous

political correctness and forget to be human. Don't you think it would have

been

rude not to mention how they're doing? It's like the 500 pound guerrilla in

the room that no one mentions. You did nothing insensitive, in fact, you were

being sensitive in inquiring about their welfare. Trust me. The older you get

the more you're going to have to deal with these situations.

[Guest guest]

Well said Irene.

I also want to send my best wishes and support for this next life challenge.

Kathy

Irene de Villiers <furryboots@...> wrote:

Tamara Tornado wrote:

> I'm not sure if " bedside manners " is the right word for what I want to

> ask...

>

> My close friend's husband has cancer, very seriously. There is some

> hope that he will recover, but it will be a fight.

>

> I'm sad and frustrated to say that I don't know how to respond.

Dear Tamara,

I have some suggestions. I was diagnosed with a terminal disease a few

times so far - age 15, then again 2000 with breast cancer and then 2001

with inoperable cushings I'd had since 1998. I've beaten each prediction

so far - and the latest one was day before Xmas, not great timing to

find cancer again. I've chosen not to tell people in general (except I

just am breaking that decision here incase it is helpful somehow),

mainly because they tend to treat you as if you are already dead (for

the good reason that they are in shock about it too and are responding

to THEIR feelings and I feel too drained to be able to comfort THEM so

early after diagnosis) when actually it is just a phase of life.

Not everyone sees it the same way - we are all different. I would

suggest being sure to approach the situation as a " phase of LIFE " like

any other with special features - and not a " prelude to death " .

The truth is that they we may all die tomorrow under a truck, and we

would not want to be treated strangely if that were known - just

compassionately. We'd want compassion but we'd also want to LIVE the

life we had left. So approach it as helping them to enjoy the phase of

life they have.

My dad died of cancer in a short illness. What we did each day was to

figure what he might be able/like to do the next day. Usually it was

less than planned, but the fun was as much in the planning as in the doing.

While he was bedridden but not too weak to move, I got him toys. For

example a toy gun that shoots pingpong balls to shoot at the nurses as

they walked by the hospital ward where he had a room on his own. We

arranged a visiting schedule so he would not be alone, and later we

polished up on morse code so he could talk by blinking after he could no

lomnger move. (He knew it from 2nd world war; I knew it for my ocean

pilot license). The point is to have things to look forward to as in any

phase of life and things to enjoy in the moment with what abilities are

available.

For another bedridden fellow I knew who was dying, his wife got him a

kitten from me and I trained it to fetch little things he threw from the

bed - and the kitten was a constant fun companion and distraction.

For people still walking about, treat them the same as you would if the

diagnosis was lless dire - apart from being sensitive to the fact the

same as you would any other illness. " I'm sorry your health threw you a

curve " sort of thing. " Is there anything I can do that would be useful

to you? If you think of something don't hesitate to tell me, here's my

number. "

The terminal person is living a life whether it's shorter than desired

or not. It's always the part the have left that you can be involved

with. If they want to discuss the " knowing " about the terminal situation

- let them bring it up and treat it as normal conversation. We all will

die - and the final stage of life is a stage like any other stage - to

be treated with respect for the life remaining and compassion for the

conditions of that phase.

I have a similar situation for animals daily as I deal mainly with

terminal cases, and our society does not prepare us to handle the final

phase of life. The trick is to honor it as a stage of life. I find my

clients manage much better if I suggest that approach. they are

terrified of losing their pet and it is indeed an attitude adjustment

that can make a big difference.

Sometimes the terminal person needs to talk about death - and it should

be an accepted topic, but who they talk with depends how close you are

and how open you are to treating it as a subject and not a loss. If your

feelings of upsetness are too strong to allow support for the other

person, rather wait till they are nore settled. My best friend Eileen

died this year of pancreatic cancer and I was one of the few people she

discussed it with in detail. I think it helped to have someone willing

to hear her feelings and her fears without freaking out. She was

frightened by the horrid symptoms and suddenness and actually she died

way before expected, 4 days later when a minor procedure (supposedly)

went wrong.

Some people are better for consolation - others are worse for it. We're

all different - no mater what phase of life it is. Personality does not

change because one is terminal, so just go by whether they are introvert

or extrovert, be normal as they are alive not dead - see the life phase

and be sensitive to its conditions at the time but leave the expected

possible death for them to bring up if they wish.

In my case apart from now I have told only my closest friend my new

diagnosis, as I needed her comfort and it helps to share with someone -

but nobody else till now because it is still such a shock to me that I

can't emotionally also handle the shock response of other people. My

poor friend - it was such a huge shock to her too - maybe more than to

me in some ways as I at least knew it was a possibility. So I feel bad

shocking her and yet I needed support, a tricky one.

IF I could tell other people without a shock response, I'd tell them

ONLY because of the way the *symptoms* might affect our relationship -

not because it is possibly terminal - we all are terminal - it's the way

it is while I am alive that can and will affect others - same as any

non-terminal illness. There's a level of acceptance I get from special

friends that has compassion without adding stress if that makes sense?

> Of

> course, I call, and I went to visit, and I will visit again. I feel

> frightened, paralyzed, awkward... the awkward is terrible.

It's a natural reaction. But remember you do NOT have the problem, so

you need to try to feel their perspective rather than your own shock if

you can try to swap that round (not easy, but trying to put yourself in

their shoes may help so you can focus on suporting them while you are

with them rather than your own shock which if you can handle that

sseparately would help), but then see the life in the person - not the

(maybe) death. Honor the life phase.

> I called today and asked cheerfully, " Are you feeling better? "

Perfect:-))

Someone can be physically worse and still feel emotionally better due to

getting more used to the diagnosis and conditions - and due to cheerful

questions like that which have a positive psychological effect to help

you feel better simply by the suggestion.

I would HATE to be asked if I feel worse (even if it is obvious) or have

someone constantly saying soemthing negative (even though well meant to

be sympathetic - it's too hard to stay positive myslef - that's what

needs help).

I find that sympathy followed by something positive feels good to me

when there is obvious need to say something sympathetic - like oh I am

sorry you feel less well than you'd like; then go onto something

positive or distracting. Don't leave it on the negative note. To always

end positive while still being compassionate helps a lot when one feels

lousy. That would be my number one request of friends.

It's like when you read a list of things - the last one is best

remembered - so make it positive :-)

> I'm more used to the kind of illness that you are definately going to

> recover from. I can be cheerful and positive and supportive. With my

> friend facing death, I don't know what to say.

The same :-))

He's not facing death - he's facing a stage of life. Honor that stage of

life. The death you can honor after he has passed. Even if he wants to

plan for what happens after death - the planning is part of the life not

part of the death. Does that help?

Those are my thoughts.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

It never rains, but it pours eh !!

You are a constant source of inspiration to me and I want to wish you all the

good luck and strength, perseverance and courage to wipe the floor with this

latest prediction.

I hope we can be a source of strength and support for you.

all best wishes

)

The problem with many things

is the pre-conceived ideas we have about them!

Tishan

http://www.freewebs.com/inspire/

[Guest guest]

) wrote:

>... to wipe the floor with this latest prediction.

Hi Folks,

I love this way of looking at it - I shall plan much floor wiping :-))

I'm really lucky in that I have probably got the world's best homeopath,

and support from many that is awesome. I'm a great believer in mental

attitude being relevant along with homeopathy and it does help that I've

beaten cancer before - so I have genuine knowledge that it is possible,

and do not have the level of fear I have had before. (I did for a few

days - seemed unavoidable whatever I told myself - some part of me was

doing the why-me thing and had the ears in the off position. Inevitable

I suppose as it comes as a shock and I was feeling quite ill at the time

which was not useful.)

I'm okay now, I'm going to do what I have to do and simply get on with

my life, with as few interruptions as necessary to take care of business.

The main trick this go round is that the tumours have not been found -

yet anyway. So far only the chemical proof they are there from breakdown

products and due to the hormones the tumours are producing (three

different ones - the hormones are a bit of a hassle, but homeopathy is

working on those symptoms quite well, so I am feeling much better than

before Xmas.)

Homeopathy can fight the actual tumours better if thay can be located.

So time will tell. Bunch of tests this week is a first step. Sometimes I

think I spend half my life doing tests or waiting to get one done or

waiting to hear results between two in a series. So I stocked up on

books to read, and will treat those times as vacation periods.

I also have a cat book to write - and I'll wipe the floor with anything

that stands in the way of that :-))

Hmm. Spotless floors...

Is it better to use a Swiffer or borrow my kitties' long tails?

> I hope we can be a source of strength and support for you.

> all best wishes

Thanks!!!

I get lots of support here - it's a great group.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

Irene,

You sound great today. You already answered my question about how are you today.

It's good to hear that you are doing so much better. Thank you for sharing on

bedside manner. I have a friend that I went to high school with that thought she

was getting her breast cancer back. She found out that she has Wegoner's

Grammulomatosis instead. Now I know how to talk to her, when I call to ask how

she is an wish her a Happy New Year.

Let us know when you are having the tests. I'll definitely keep you in my

prayers. I always look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Re: bedside manners

) wrote:

>... to wipe the floor with this latest prediction.

Hi Folks,

I love this way of looking at it - I shall plan much floor wiping :-))

I'm really lucky in that I have probably got the world's best homeopath,

and support from many that is awesome. I'm a great believer in mental

attitude being relevant along with homeopathy and it does help that I've

beaten cancer before - so I have genuine knowledge that it is possible,

and do not have the level of fear I have had before. (I did for a few

days - seemed unavoidable whatever I told myself - some part of me was

doing the why-me thing and had the ears in the off position. Inevitable

I suppose as it comes as a shock and I was feeling quite ill at the time

which was not useful.)

I'm okay now, I'm going to do what I have to do and simply get on with

my life, with as few interruptions as necessary to take care of business.

The main trick this go round is that the tumours have not been found -

yet anyway. So far only the chemical proof they are there from breakdown

products and due to the hormones the tumours are producing (three

different ones - the hormones are a bit of a hassle, but homeopathy is

working on those symptoms quite well, so I am feeling much better than

before Xmas.)

Homeopathy can fight the actual tumours better if thay can be located.

So time will tell. Bunch of tests this week is a first step. Sometimes I

think I spend half my life doing tests or waiting to get one done or

waiting to hear results between two in a series. So I stocked up on

books to read, and will treat those times as vacation periods.

I also have a cat book to write - and I'll wipe the floor with anything

that stands in the way of that :-))

Hmm. Spotless floors...

Is it better to use a Swiffer or borrow my kitties' long tails?

> I hope we can be a source of strength and support for you.

> all best wishes

Thanks!!!

I get lots of support here - it's a great group.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

Max, is absolutely correct.

Two years ago when my ex had a " dire " (that's the doctor's word) cancer

diagnosis, I was almost tempted to write a book called " What Not to Say When

Someone Says They Have Cancer " . So many people have to tell you about someone

they know that had cancer, and of course, they are now dead - " only lasted a

month " , etc.

I think the most important thing is to be positive when talking to the person.

They don't need to hear bad things about other people with the same problem. As

my mother used to say, " If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at

all. " The same applies to positive and negative. They will hear enough

negative comments from the idiots.

Treat them as you normally would but stay positive in your language and

comments.

Regards,

Sharon

Re: bedside manners

In a message dated 1/1/2005 5:03:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tamaratornado@... writes:

I called today and asked cheerfully, " Are you feeling better? " - then

after the words popped out of my mouth, I thought uh-oh, what if he's

not feeling better; and I said, " I'm sorry maybe I shouldn't ask like

that... " and He said, " It's OK you can ask.... pause... I'm holding my

own. " I felt like such an insensitive oaf.

Girl, you're going to blow your head up with indecision. Just be polite and

natural and follow their lead just like you would with anyone else; otherwise,

you make them feel self conscience. We live in this time of ridiculous

political correctness and forget to be human. Don't you think it would have

been

rude not to mention how they're doing? It's like the 500 pound guerrilla in

the room that no one mentions. You did nothing insensitive, in fact, you were

being sensitive in inquiring about their welfare. Trust me. The older you

get

the more you're going to have to deal with these situations.

[Guest guest]

Hi Irene,

Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, but you have a great attitude and I am sure

that you will beat it. Can't keep an " old salt " down!

Have you ever read anything by Bernie S. Siegel, M.D. One of his books is

called, " Love, Medicine & Miracles " . He was a regular cancer doctor who became

totally disgusted with the medical community and how they treat cancer and went

to the " dark side " . He concentrates on the mental attitude in healing.

My ex who so far has held melanoma at bay after 2 years (keeping fingers

crossed) read all of Siegel's books and listened to his tapes constantly when he

was diagnosed and going through treatment. He thought they were wonderful and

gave him the right mental attitude and a lot of strength.

Good luck in your fight.

Sharon

Re: bedside manners

) wrote:

>... to wipe the floor with this latest prediction.

Hi Folks,

I love this way of looking at it - I shall plan much floor wiping :-))

I'm really lucky in that I have probably got the world's best homeopath,

and support from many that is awesome. I'm a great believer in mental

attitude being relevant along with homeopathy and it does help that I've

beaten cancer before - so I have genuine knowledge that it is possible,

and do not have the level of fear I have had before. (I did for a few

days - seemed unavoidable whatever I told myself - some part of me was

doing the why-me thing and had the ears in the off position. Inevitable

I suppose as it comes as a shock and I was feeling quite ill at the time

which was not useful.)

I'm okay now, I'm going to do what I have to do and simply get on with

my life, with as few interruptions as necessary to take care of business.

The main trick this go round is that the tumours have not been found -

yet anyway. So far only the chemical proof they are there from breakdown

products and due to the hormones the tumours are producing (three

different ones - the hormones are a bit of a hassle, but homeopathy is

working on those symptoms quite well, so I am feeling much better than

before Xmas.)

Homeopathy can fight the actual tumours better if thay can be located.

So time will tell. Bunch of tests this week is a first step. Sometimes I

think I spend half my life doing tests or waiting to get one done or

waiting to hear results between two in a series. So I stocked up on

books to read, and will treat those times as vacation periods.

I also have a cat book to write - and I'll wipe the floor with anything

that stands in the way of that :-))

Hmm. Spotless floors...

Is it better to use a Swiffer or borrow my kitties' long tails?

> I hope we can be a source of strength and support for you.

> all best wishes

Thanks!!!

I get lots of support here - it's a great group.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.