Re: unstable temps show a need for more HC?

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I know that hypothyroids can have less hydrochloric acid in the stomach which

means a need for more HC than normal..but Im still dubious about increasing my

HC more.

I have the same problems as yyou.I am on 35 mg of hc too. I take hydrocholoric

acid in tablets just before a meal (esp if there is going to be protein). I

think hydrochloric acid helps in better absorption of hc. i have noticed that i

have less air and flatulence and i digest better.

I have now split my hc into 5 times a day and this helps to keep temperatures

more stable. I do 10mg,6 mg, 6mg,6mg, 6mg which is more or less 35mg

(7.30,1030, 1330, 1730, 20.30)I use the alarm on my mobile phone to remind me.

hope that helps

berny

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Isn't 35mg HC too much according to that study?

The only way I could justify it was that I'm not taking Hydrochloric acid so may

need more.

I'm quite worried about taking more

Thanks

Jonny

[Guest guest]

ny - have a look at " How to Use Cortisone " - or a

similar title in the Files. There is a chart there to show how much HC should

be used , depending upon which variety of HC is used.

luv - Sheila

Isn't 35mg HC too much according to that study?

The only way I could justify it was that I'm not taking Hydrochloric acid so

may need more.

I'm quite worried about taking more

Thanks

Jonny

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16:53:00

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila,

I had a look and it say that HC can be taken up to 55mg per day!..

But I worrie about this as how do we know this is safe? Is there any evidence?

The study I mentioned seemed to say that 30mg in addison's sufferers wasn't safe

as caused decreased bone density..implying it was more than a replacament

dose...

If this is true, the only was one could justify taking more is if stomach acid

was low..

As Dr Peatfield said: " ...may take the dose to 25mcgs or 30 mgs daily,

exceptionally even 40mgs. These higher doses are related more to absorption in

the stomach than to deficiency... "

What worries me is if my stomach acid is normal, yet I am taking 35mg per day

and therefore taking too much..

Can you offer a counter argument to reassure me? lol

Thanks

Jonny

[Guest guest]

I remember reading somewhere that if you are taking cortisol/hydrocortisone then

you should not take hydrochloric acid to improve digestion. This is the reason

I haven't started taking any hydrochloric acid yet. I am very sorry I can't

remember where I read this. Perhaps someone else on the group knows about it?

Maybe the reason is that cortisol can cause stomach irritation and the

combination would increase the risks of that happening?

Miriam

> I have the same problems as yyou.I am on 35 mg of hc too. I take hydrocholoric

acid in tablets just before a meal (esp if there is going to be protein). I

think hydrochloric acid helps in better absorption of hc. i have noticed that i

have less air and flatulence and i digest better.

[Guest guest]

I don't pretend to know very much about taking HC Jonny - this

is something I have never had to become concerned about in my own case thank

goodness. However, considering you are seeing Dr P very shortly at the clinic

at my home. I would ask him these questions at that time.

luv - Sheila

If this is true, the only was one could justify taking more is if stomach acid

was low..

As Dr Peatfield said: " ...may take the dose to 25mcgs or 30 mgs daily,

exceptionally even 40mgs. These higher doses are related more to absorption in

the stomach than to deficiency... "

What worries me is if my stomach acid is normal, yet I am taking 35mg per day

and therefore taking too much..

Can you offer a counter argument to reassure me? lol

[Guest guest]

I know some people may disagree with me about this, but I wouldn't worry too

much about the fluctuating temperatures as per Dr Rind. Mine still fluctuate,

yet Dr P examined me and all my signs show that the adrenals are stable. My

blood pressure rises on standing and my reflexes are good, so he was happy with

the result of the cortisol I am taking. It is sufficient to help me make use of

the T3 I am taking, which is the main point so far as I am concerned.

My temperature still drops if the weather gets cold and goes up when the weather

is warmer. Also if I do exercise my temperature can plummet. I said to Dr P

that it seemed like I was using up energy and then couldn't replenish it, and he

agreed that this was probably what was happening. So I have to be content with

the progress I am making and not expect perfect temperatures yet.

If you are anxious about the cortisol you are taking then I would recommend

reading " Safe Uses of Cortisol " by Jefferies. Maybe there is a copy in the

group library? I seem to remember him mentioning that the doses of cortisol

causing problems were something like 200 mg rather than the 30 or 40 mg we might

take.

Miriam

> Iv been taking my temps 3x per day as on the Dr Rind site.

> 2 days ago my temps were low (36.5 compared to 36.85 normally!), and today my

first temp is 36.47..I thought at first that it was because I didn't have a

shower of bath, but yesterday I didn't and average was 36.9C..

> Val on NTHadrenals says it shows low cortisol but Im taking 35mg HC already.

And Iv just read some studies that say addison's patients that were taking

0.43mg/kg body weight per day (which is the same as 30mg per day for me) showed

decreased bone density..which to me implies that this dose was more than a

normal replacement dose..(http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/120/3/207)

[Guest guest]

A couple of points: Stress dosing (a bit extra) is a factor, and one which one

has to learn to judge. Most people, if not all, find themselves less relaxed

than normal from time to time without any obvious reason. Rings or drakening

under the eyes may be a pointer.

Then there must surely be the effect of speeded metabolism through exercise. A

normal dose would be geared to a daily calorie consumption of 2000 or 2500

(though hypoT sufferers may burn fewer), which would be exceeded even if doing

no more than standing for several hours in a day.

Rgds

Hans

Isn't 35mg HC too much according to that study?

....

Jonny

[Guest guest]

Thanks Miriam,

I do wonder whether more HC would help me..my temps are low but my TSH is 0.44

(0.3-4.5) and FT4 14.2 (10-22) so it makes me think the thyroid hormones are in

my blood but aren't being used as much as they should. FT3 wasn't done, but with

the TSH being low shile the FT4 is also low implies to me that FT3 is high...(is

this logic correct?)

I thought my temps were stable s while I was at uni I was having a shower every

morning and average daily temps were about 36.85, so I thought I was nearly

there. Now, at home, when I don't have a shower they are about 36.5.

Iv jut asked someone if I can borrow that book from the TPA library..

I guess what I would really like is to see some proof that taking 30/40/50mg HC

is ok..I have not seen any, just people saying that it is ok. Perhaps a study

that shows the daily cortisol production being this high..

Thanks

Jonny

[Guest guest]

I believe you are going to see Dr P so I would ask him about your dosages.

If I did exactly the same thing every day, at the same time, maybe my

temperatures would be identical. However, if my activity levels are not

identical, nor are my temperatures. I can boost my temperature with a hot bath,

or with a few hours in bed with a hot water bottle, or by lying on the sofa for

the evening in front of the fire. But that rather makes a nonsense of paying

the temperatures so much attention, don't you think?

As I understand it, the 30/40/50 mg hydrocortisone is just a replacement dose

for what your exhausted adrenals should have been producing for themselves. So

your overall cortisol won't be any higher than that of someone with normally

functioning adrenals.

If the adrenals can't produce enough cortisol that in itself causes additional

stress to the adrenals. So by adding a small amount of hydrocortisone each day

it is giving the adrenals a holiday and a chance to recover. In a few cases -

perhaps in mine as I am coming up to 20 years of ill health - the adrenals are

so damaged they can't come back on line and you need to continue taking tablets

to support them.

However, in the vast majority of cases, once the thyroid deficiency is corrected

the extra adrenal support is no longer required. You can slowly taper off the

amount and the adrenals will begin to function normally again. It is often

long-term low thryoid that causes the adrenal problem in the first place. If

all is not well with the thyroid the adrenals have to try and make up for the

deficit, and this eventually exhausts them.

Anyway, you can read all about it in the Jefferies book. When you fully

understand what is going on I'm sure you'll be a lot happier.

Miriam

> I thought my temps were stable s while I was at uni I was having a shower

every morning and average daily temps were about 36.85, so I thought I was

nearly there. Now, at home, when I don't have a shower they are about 36.5.

>

> I guess what I would really like is to see some proof that taking 30/40/50mg

HC is ok..I have not seen any, just people saying that it is ok. Perhaps a study

that shows the daily cortisol production being this high..

[Guest guest]

Thanks Miriam,I think tho that that is the point is

checking temps. They SHOULD be stable (apparently) even when outside

temps increase of decrease.I

will ask Dr Peatfield about it, but in the mean time I can't help

feeling anxious about it as I keep finding references on the internet

to cortisol production being a lot lower than we take:"Several

methods are available for determining the production or secretory rate

of cortisol. However, technical complexity has largely limited their

use to research situations. Early studies estimated that cortisol

production ranges from 8 to 25mg/day, and most studies have given

results in the higher range. In recent studies using more specific

methods, the cortisol production rate was about 10mg/day (5.7 to 6.8

mg/m2 per day) in normal adult volunteers and normal children and

adolescents. In adults patients with Cushing's syndrome, the cortisol

production rate was 30.7 +- 9.3 mg/day (18.1 mg/m2 per day). These

studies indicate that the usual cortisol replacement dose of 20 to 30

mg/day used in adrenal unsufficiency is too high if more than 50

percent of the oral dose is absorbed." - Found Here "..an oral bioavailibility of 54% to 96%...have been reported" - Found Here "The

findings lend support to the recommendations that 15-25 mg

hydrocortisone daily is more appropriate than the higher conventional

doses." - Found HereThanksJonny

[Guest guest]

Yes, maybe the temperatures should be stable, but the point I am making is that

for the purposes of utilising my T3 my adrenals are fine even though my

temperatures are not yet perfectly stable. Dr P thought they were great and

that is good enough for me at this point in time.

Yes, do ask Dr P. I wouldn't be worried by any of those references on the

internet. I have to follow Dr P's instructions to the letter in order to see

whether his treatment works or not. Supposing I took less cortisol and then

could no longer make use of the T3? Perhaps in theory I might be able to

justify it, but it would have wrecked my treatment plan. You only have to read

the New Scientist on a regular basis to see that there is rarely universal

agreement amongst scientists.

It seems to me that you are worrying too much. Perhaps it is simply anxiety?

Sometimes the anxiety comes first and the things to worry about are a result of

it.

Miriam

>

> I think tho that that is the point is checking temps. They SHOULD be

> stable (apparently) even when outside temps increase of decrease.

>

> I will ask Dr Peatfield about it, but in the mean time I can't help

> feeling anxious about it as I keep finding references on the internet to

cortisol production being a lot lower than we take:

[Guest guest]

I agree with you Miriam - and I believe Jonny that as you are

paying Dr P to look after you, that you leave your health in his safe hands and

not go reading different web sites which give conflicting information. My own

temperature NEVER rises above 97.2 - been like that for years - and I am very,

very well. I never bother taking my temperature, but do realise that when you

start taking HC you need to do this to check whether it is working or not. It

does seem your temperatures are not too bad. The point is, how do you feel?

luv - Sheila

It seems to me that you are worrying too much. Perhaps it is simply anxiety?

Sometimes the anxiety comes first and the things to worry about are a result of

it.

Miriam

[Guest guest]

Yes I think Im getting a bit anxious about it..

I feel ok, but don't feel like going out and seeing anyone, or doing anything

for that matter. So that's probably why Im spending so much time on the

computer.

Ill try and stop worrying about it so much as am seeing dr peatfield soon. I

just hate not knowing why things aren't right yet..or maybe they are and I just

need to stop worrying lol

Thanks

Jonny

[Guest guest]

Iv just realised Iv bin drinking a lot of green tea over the past few days which

I think can stress the adrenals..so Ill stay off that I think, see if it helps

Jonny

[Guest guest]

Hi Jonny,

Also it is high in fluoride I believe - I would limit it to 1 cup a day.

Val

Iv just realised Iv bin drinking a lot of green tea over the past few days which I think can stress the adrenals..so Ill stay off that I think, see if it helpsJonny

[Guest guest]

Well after stopping it since yesterday, I feel so much better today..less

anxious and depressed and more energy..so I think Ill just stay off it all

together

Thanks

Jonny

[Guest guest]

>

> I remember reading somewhere that if you are taking cortisol/hydrocortisone

then you should not take hydrochloric acid to improve digestion. This is the

reason I haven't started taking any hydrochloric acid yet. I am very sorry I

can't remember where I read this. Perhaps someone else on the group knows about

it? Maybe the reason is that cortisol can cause stomach irritation and the

combination would increase the risks of that happening?

> Miriam

Miriam

I am the lady taking hc and hydrochloric acid. I read about this in Stop the

Thyroid Madness in the section about hydrocortisone. This site is now run by

although I think Janie Bowthorpe may have wrote the phrase.

I must say that I don't get burning In fact it says to start off with one

tablet per day and if you get pains to stop it. if not to take more than one a

day. I take about 2 and take them before protein meals.

berny

>

[Guest guest]

I'll be interested to hear how you get on. I suspect I need more hydrochloric

acid myself, but am not going to take any just yet. Where did you buy some

from?

Miriam

> I am the lady taking hc and hydrochloric acid. I read about this in Stop the

Thyroid Madness in the section about hydrocortisone. This site is now run by

although I think Janie Bowthorpe may have wrote the phrase.

> I must say that I don't get burning In fact it says to start off with one

tablet per day and if you get pains to stop it. if not to take more than one a

day. I take about 2 and take them before protein meals.

[Guest guest]

Oh no lol, sorry I meant stopping green tea..

Jonny

[Guest guest]

I just came across something else today that might be of interest to you. I am

re-reading " Adrenal Fatigue " by Dr L and there is a foreword by Dr

. On pages xi to xii he says:

" Why is help for adrenal fatigue so hard to find? Many readers may have already

guessed at " the usual suspects " : money and politics. Money: there are no

patentable treatments for adrenal fatigue produced by patent-medicine

( " pharmaceutical " ) companies. There's just no " big money " to be made.

Politics: Since the 1970s, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has " outlawed "

and actively persecuted one of the chief natural remedies for adrenal fatigue,

an extremely safe remedy called adrenal cortical extract (ACE). [However, when

ACE was produced by major patent medicine companies, from the 1930s through the

1960s, FDA had no problem with it.] "

In case you are wondering what ACE is exactly, here is what I have found: ACE

is obtained from the adrenal glands of cattle and other domestic food animals.

The major active component is the hormone hydrocortisone.

So anyway, the point I am making is that there are these political and financial

interests at work so you can't take everything you read at face value, even

supposedly " scientific " papers.

Miriam

> I had a look and it say that HC can be taken up to 55mg per day!..

> But I worrie about this as how do we know this is safe? Is there any evidence?

[Guest guest]

solgar is the make i have. but i saw it on biovea too. i bloat and belch less.

>

> I'll be interested to hear how you get on. I suspect I need more hydrochloric

acid myself, but am not going to take any just yet. Where did you buy some

from?

> Miriam

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

Type it into Google Jonny - and see what it says.

Luv - Sheila

What are the symptoms of having low stomach acid/ low

digestive enzymes?

thanks

Jonny

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19:01:00

[Guest guest]

Have you read what Dr Myhill has to say on the subject?

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=404

I had a lab test from Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab showing that I was passing

undigested food, but it was expensive and probably I could have guessed as much

myself.

If you get your thyroid problems sorted out this might resolve itself anyway.

Low stomach acid and deficiency of digestive enzymes can be associated with low

thyroid.

Miriam

> What are the symptoms of having low stomach acid/ low digestive enzymes?