Re: NYTimes.com: Other Fish to Fry

[Guest guest]

PCBs and mercury are environmentally controlled and it is illegal to dump

(major fines). There are many codes in the building, transformer, wire,

thermometer, and electronic industries that make it illegal to use PCBs or

mercury.

Most Government and privates codes prohibit their use. Companies who have them

can't sell them and companies who have old ones in use pay dearly when the

PCB starts leaking out of a transformer. Plastic suits, waste trucks, and dump

site storage is very very expensive. Most companies have changed them all

out. Trust me. It's an expensive mess to get rid of PCBs or mercury. Based on

this, I think his information is a little dated.

I do agree that the oceans are overfished but they usually self correct

because areas get fished out and people stop fishing there until the fish come

back. The Japanese and Russians are really bad. They have hugh seagoing

trawlers.

[Guest guest]

This is true for USA and some other countries however, unfortunately it is not

true for China. There was a MAJOR chemical spill last year in northern China.

The people who washed in the water and drank the water weren't told. When the

spill got close to a major city, they then closed all the water intake and

eventually it made it into the press.

There were 176 chemical spills in China last year. They Yangzi river with

supplies Shanghai with drinking water is now at Class 4 pollution., Class 5 is

dead water where nothing can live. These rivers feed the oceans.

I can send you information on this if you would like. The Chinese Govt tries to

keep this as quiet as possible but there is almost NO water in China that is not

contaminated. People are drinking " PCB " contaminated water daily and dying.

Benzene is also in the drinking water. The Govt of China is trying to improve

the environment and has rules and regulations, but the local officials will

ignore the problems if paid enough. Local city and Provincial govts also don't

enforce the rules as they feel they will lose revenue.

, from Canada, living in China

Maddviking@... wrote: PCBs and mercury are

environmentally controlled and it is illegal to dump

(major fines). There are many codes in the building, transformer, wire,

thermometer, and electronic industries that make it illegal to use PCBs or

mercury.

Most Government and privates codes prohibit their use. Companies who have them

can't sell them and companies who have old ones in use pay dearly when the

PCB starts leaking out of a transformer. Plastic suits, waste trucks, and dump

site storage is very very expensive. Most companies have changed them all

out. Trust me. It's an expensive mess to get rid of PCBs or mercury. Based

on

this, I think his information is a little dated.

I do agree that the oceans are overfished but they usually self correct

because areas get fished out and people stop fishing there until the fish come

back. The Japanese and Russians are really bad. They have hugh seagoing

trawlers.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/8/2006 10:17:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

maryhilchie@... writes:

Class 5 is dead water where nothing can live. These rivers feed the oceans.

True but wouldn't mercury and PCBs fall to the bottom of the river (metals)

and/or be diluted by the coastal waters? We can't fish off of China.

[Guest guest]

Yes mercury would sink if in pure formm however as an oxide it can be absorbed

by plants and the plants eaten. PCB's as such should float and or dispurse.

Pollution is in many forms, I have one textbook just about water pollution.

However, check the fish in your supermarket and see what has been imported from

China. China exports a lot.

The fish in the ocean near China would be contaminated, they would swim and be

eaten by other fish that swim that are, in turn eaten. The contamination does

eventually travel around the world.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0623/p01s03-woap.html

http://www.forbes.com/business/businesstech/feeds/ap/2006/06/15/ap2818330.html

http://news./s/nm/20060530/hl_nm/river_cancerous_dc

Maddviking@... wrote: In a message dated

9/8/2006 10:17:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

maryhilchie@... writes:

Class 5 is dead water where nothing can live. These rivers feed the oceans.

True but wouldn't mercury and PCBs fall to the bottom of the river (metals)

and/or be diluted by the coastal waters? We can't fish off of China.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2006 1:56:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,

maryhilchie@... writes:

The contamination does eventually travel around the world.

That's the part I don't buy. If that was true then the earth couldn't self

clean itself and we'd have died in our own filth centuries ago. Granted,

mercury is cumulative in fish and animals but I don't think the problem is as

widespread as the " Chicken Little " people who brought us the panic of mad cow

and

avian flu would have us believe. That's just my opinion.

I don't eat any food or seafood from China or Thailand after seeing the

rivers and coastal areas choked with human waste and kids swimming in it! No

tape

worms for me thank you. I don't eat the food because it is a common practice

to use human waste for fertilizer.

[Guest guest]

I unfortunately have to because I live here 11 months/year. I don't eat fish

usless it is 'ocean' fish. I do eat seafood as I live on the coast in a town on

the Yellow sea.

from Canada, in China

Maddviking@... wrote:

I don't eat the food because it is a common practice

to use human waste for fertilizer.

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[Guest guest]

Maddviking@... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/11/2006 1:56:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> maryhilchie@... writes:

> The contamination does eventually travel around the world.

>

> That's the part I don't buy.

Yet there's some truth in it.

The oceans mainly stay either in the northern hemisphere going in

circles - or in the southern hemisphere, going in circles there.

In-between is a still zone at the equator with no winds to move the

oceans, known as the doldrums. It's why you never get a hurricane in the

equatorial zones.

As a sailor, I can tell you that the increase in junk in the ocean

when one sails " in the middle of nowhere " very far from land, is a scary

thing to see over the years. When I was a kid, the ocean was clean and

pristine out there - and it no longer is. Ships are discharging garbage

at sea, and there are oil slicks, plastic bags and unmentionable stuff

really way out there. Nowhere is clean any more.

Those things that are biodegradable, do get acted on, but the rate of

this is temperature dependent, and if you ever went deep sea sailing

you'll know how darned cold the sea is (other than the doldrums) away

from the continental shelf where it warms up at the beach due to being

shallow. So the BOD (biological oxygen demand needed to biodegrade stuff

that is biodegradable) gets to be very high, and gets ahead of the rate

at which the available bioforms can actually break it down in colod water.

Even Antarctica's seas way down by the south pole are layered with

garbage floating about.

People have always assumed you can send it into the ocean in a

never-ending stream of junk and it will magically disappear - but it's

not true. There is only so much that dilution and bioforms can do, and

the rate of garbage-in-sea disposal is way too high for the sea to

remain clean any more - go sail there - anywhere from Antarctica on

north - and you will see this for yourself! It was getting bad in 1996

when I was last out in the southern Oceans (and the Northern ones are

worse) - and can only be that much worse now.

And of course anything not biodegradable, makes thongs MUCH worse as

the only way to remove that from the sea is to get it into the food

chain and have us fish it out and eat it! (only to put it back????)

The sea is not a bottomless garbage pit :-((

> If that was true then the earth couldn't self

> clean itself

And indeed you are right - it can no longer self-clean - the junk rate

exceeds the biodegradable fix rate. The sea IS damaged already.

> and we'd have died in our own filth centuries ago.

Not yet - but we are working on it; the trend is there.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

" Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. "

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2006 11:49:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

furryboots@... writes:

And indeed you are right - it can no longer self-clean - the junk rate

exceeds the biodegradable fix rate. The sea IS damaged already.

Nah, I don't buy it. We'll kill ourselves with pollution and food supply and

be a distant memory and the earth and ocean will clean itself and be right

back where it started. Look at how clean our air is in spite of the fact that

we throw huge amounts of pollution into the air. Soylent Green (the movie)

never happened and the earth is cooling. Everything is biodegradable even if it

takes 100,000 years to degrade. A blink of the eye for the earth. I knee

jerked in the 70s and as a scientist and engineer I was going to be a savior of

the earth with pollution control but not this time around. More pollution and

crap gets belched out of one big volcanic erruption than we could ever cause.

The ocean's a big place. Once you get out away from the coastal areas, it is

as green and clear as anything. Insolubles sink to the bottom. All the oil

gets eaten by microbacteria that fish eat increasing the fish population.

What makes oil bad is the coastal effect on wild life and land. Out at sea

there

is no land to concentrate the oil. The nodes of dead water in the horse

latitudes lump junk together but also serve as fish sanctuaries. Coastal

pollution does affect the natural selection of sea birds and is why there are so

many

sea gulls (flying rats) because they survive on filth and kill other birds.

I'm no proponent of pollution and I think we are killing ourselves with the

food supply but the good old earth is going to be just fine.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2006 8:26:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,

maryhilchie@... writes:

I unfortunately have to because I live here 11 months/year. I don't eat fish

usless it is 'ocean' fish.

There you go. Fish away from the coast are not affected. Deep water fish

are excellent. Hey, I'm not justifying the Chinese, I'm just saying that

they're not polluting the entire earth. Can you imagine turn of the century

Chicago

when they dumped raw sewage into the lake and drew their drinking water from

the same place? I'll bet they sold a lot of toilet paper.

By the way, I have a friend and his wife who live or work at Zhifu Island,

Yantai 264000, Shandong, PR China. Is that close to you? What do you think of

that big dam they're putting in? I've heard that it may fail because of the

way they're building it.

[Guest guest]

Maddviking@... wrote:

> The ocean's a big place. Once you get out away from the coastal areas, it is

> as green and clear as anything.

It isn't!

That's what I was trying to tell you.

I also expected it to be clear and green - byut even in antarctica -

there's nowhere more remote! 0- it is NOT glear and green.

I can tell you did not go there to look:-0))

I did.

NAmaste,

IRene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

" Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. "

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2006 8:38:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,

furryboots@... writes:

I can tell you did not go there to look

So you've been to Antarctica? I've got friends who were stationed there and

other friends who ran ice breakers out of there. They say that it is pristine

and full of great tasting fish. The only pollution is around where the

humans are living.

Speaking of pristene, the rivers I saw in British Columbia and Alberta were

the clearest and cleanest I'd ever seen. Just don't walk in them. You'll

freeze. Beautiful country.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/12/2006 8:48:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

maryhilchie@... writes:

There are many lakes and rivers nearby which would meet the pristine

definition.

I found Canada to be beautiful and the mountains breathtaking and I've been

to a lot of places.

[Guest guest]

Maddviking@... wrote: Speaking of pristene, the rivers I saw in British

Columbia and Alberta were

the clearest and cleanest I'd ever seen. Just don't walk in them. You'll

freeze. Beautiful country.

I agree. Lived in Alberta and have visited BC.

Most parts of Canada you will find the rivers are clean and full of edible fish.

I now live in Ontario (when not in China). There are many lakes and rivers

nearby which would meet the pristine definition. The St. Lawrence river however

is badly polluted and the fish not safe to eat. That river, of course, does

feed the Atlantic Ocean.

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[Guest guest]

Maddviking@... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/11/2006 8:38:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> furryboots@... writes:

> I can tell you did not go there to look

>

> So you've been to Antarctica?

Pretty close, but no, I crewed on a yacht that went there, and what I

remember is the mountainous waves compared with Cape Town area (Cape of

Storms). Plenty of garbage down there.

The folks who went all the way took lots of video including of the

garbage and not just near where the people were messing it up.

Sure it is not like the amount of junk elsewhere - but the point is

that we are adding garbage to our oceans faster than it can be degraded

by bioforms.

Namaste,

IRene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.

www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)

" Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. "