Re: Probem big problem, ocd and panic anxiety from years ago is back HELP

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

Can we agree it sounds like a hypoglycemic attack ? But why?

Solcitors often cause me great dismay as with poli(t)e and the other

authoritarian bogey men.

best wishes

Bob

>

> Hi there folks

> i had a terrible do today. I went to the solicitors, it was not

> stressful but I was breathless as usual and sat around quite a

while.

> I went for my hubby in the car, and went for a coffee with the

family

> afterwards. About 40 mins later I started having symptoms of

> malfunctioning thought patterns, and great fear in my stomach. I had

> not stress dosed, didn t think I needed to. But I got in such a

state.

> Was almost psychotic, moaning, trembling, cold, my family were

trying

> to calm me down. I did my breathing, but it kept coming over me all

> the time. Got home bp was 182/161 hr 90. Val on the adrenal forum

told

> me to go to hospital as it was dangerous, and I agree, but I couldnt

> have gone they would just have said it was the panic probably, also

I

> don't trust them not to commit me. So I took 10mg hc, 2.5mg diazepam

> and all together 200mg more q10 and 300mg more magnesium and got it

> down to 172/94 hr vary from 84 -95.

>

> I am wondering and hoping against all hope that I have reached my

> sweet spot and gone past it and that cutting the TH down a little

will

> stop this terror and torment.

> My mind is not too bad now although I feel a little like a

vegetable,

> very foggy and not too bright a button.

> Can anyone offer me any hope here? I am not wanting to eat at the

> moment but I have done in case of hypoglycemia. Just one thing, I

had

> only had 2 slices of toast at 11 am and I started being wierd after

> the coffee at about 4pm.

> One of the funniest things was, I have been breathless all day long,

> but when I was in this state I wasn't. Wierd.

>

> My friends can you help me at all?

>

> lotsa luv

> Dawnx

>

[Guest guest]

I hope that is all it is Bob but I am not sure, no appetite, crawling

out of my skin, mind very ocd ish, taken me 3 hours to nearly get back

to sanity, still not quite there yet. Darnit never thought to take the

glucose level lol, obvious thing to do at the time but overlooked.

My son seems to think it might have been the coffee, he could even be

right, but look at that bp eh? Woppa

I am very very scared.

luv Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Oh Dawn you poor thing, what an awfull scenario,sounds like you are a

bit over on your levels, I'm no expert of course. If you are over

replaced the anxiety thing is terrible I had it a bit the other week

and my teeth were chattering and I was permanently on the loo. Once

you are stressed everything scary is hyper magnified.

Are you ok with coffee normaly? I know it is the worst known stomach

irritant to man. You are so bright and send such amusing messages all

the time, far too normal to be admitted!

I hope the episode is in the past now, have a better day tommorow.

Luv Stephie

> i had a terrible do today.> afterwards. About 40 mins later I

started having symptoms of

> malfunctioning thought patterns, and great fear in my stomach. I had

> not stress dosed, didn t think I needed to. But I got in such a

state.

> Was almost psychotic, moaning, trembling, cold, my family were

trying

> to calm me down. I did my breathing, but it kept coming over me all

> the time. Got home bp was 182/161 hr 90. Val on the adrenal forum

told

> but I couldnt

> have gone they would just have said it was the panic probably, also

I

> don't trust them not to commit me. So I took 10mg hc, 2.5mg diazepam

> > I have reached my

> sweet spot and gone past it and > My mind is not too bad now

although I feel a little like a vegetable,

> very foggy and not too bright a button.

> Can anyone offer me any hope here? I am not wanting to eat at the

> moment but I have done in case of hypoglycemia. Just one thing, I

had

> only had 2 slices of toast at 11 am and I started being wierd after

> the coffee at about 4pm.

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn - I cant really help but just wanted to say it must have been scary and hope you're feeling better - it could be that you have reached your spot and your symptoms are going hyper?

take care,

Gill

i had a terrible do today. I went to the solicitors, it was notstressful but I was breathless as usual and sat around quite a while.I went for my hubby in the car, and went for a coffee with the familyafterwards.

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[Guest guest]

Thanks Gill,

I am praying that is what it is

At the mo I have slight uneasiness in my tummy but my brain seems to

be behaving itself for now. We have to look at so many things,

adrenals, salt, blood supply, thyroid hormones, its very complicated

isnt it?xxx

luv Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Dawn ~ I think your symptoms are those of hypoglaecemia, have a read

of this from Dr Myhill:

Hypoglycaemia

(updated January 2009)

It is critically important for the body to maintain blood sugar

levels within a narrow range. If the blood sugar level falls too low,

energy supply to all tissues, particularly the brain, is impaired.

However if blood sugar levels rise too high this is very damaging to

arteries and the long term effect of arterial disease is heart

disease and strokes – this is probably caused by a local reaction in

peri-arteriolar fat resulting in release of pro-inflammatory

cytokines causing damage to arteries.

Normally the liver controls blood sugar levels. It makes the sugar

from energy stores inside the liver and releases sugar into the blood

stream minute by minute in a carefully regulated way to cope with

body demands, which may fluctuate from minute to minute. This system

of control works perfectly well until we upset it by eating the wrong

thing. Eating excessive sugar at one meal, or excessive refined

carbohydrate, which is rapidly digested into sugar can suddenly

overwhelm the liver's normal control of blood sugar levels.

We evolved over millions of years eating a diet that was very low in

sugar and had no refined carbohydrate. Control of blood sugar

therefore largely occurred as a result of eating this Stone Age diet

and the fact that we were exercising vigorously, so any excessive

sugar in the blood was quickly burned off. Nowadays the situation is

different - we eat large amounts of sugar and refined carbohydrate

and do not exercise enough in order to burn off this excessive sugar.

The body therefore has to cope with this excessive sugar load by

other mechanisms.

When food is digested, the sugars and other digestive products go

straight from the gut in the portal veins to the liver, where they

should all be mopped up by the liver and processed accordingly.

Excessive sugar or refined carbohydrate overwhelms the liver, which

simply cannot mop up the amount of sugar which is there and the sugar

spills over into the systemic circulation. This results in high blood

sugar, which is extremely damaging to arteries. If one were

exercising hard, this would be quickly burned off. However, if one is

not, then other mechanisms of control are brought into play. The key

player here is insulin, a hormone excreted by the pancreas. This is

very good at bringing blood sugar levels down and it does so by

shunting the sugar into fat. There is then a rebound effect and blood

sugars may well go too low. Low blood sugar is also dangerous to the

body because the energy supplied to all tissues is impaired. It is

when the blood sugar is low that this is called hypoglycaemia.

Subconsciously people quickly work out that eating more sugar

alleviates these symptoms, but of course they invariably overdo

things, the blood sugar level then goes high and one ends up on a

rollercoaster ride of blood sugar going up and down throughout the

day.

Symptoms of hypoglycaemia

The problem is that when the blood sugar is high people

feel " normal " , indeed maybe slightly boosted by this high level of

blood sugar. This is because they have good energy supply to their

muscles and brain albeit short-term. The problem arises when blood

sugar levels dive as a result of insulin being released and energy

supply to the brain and the body is suddenly impaired. This results

in a whole host of symptoms - the brain symptoms include difficulty

thinking clearly, feeling spaced out and dizzy, poor word finding

ability, foggy brain and sometimes even blurred vision or tinnitus.

The body symptoms include suddenly feeling very weak and lethargic,

feeling faint and slightly shaky, rumbling tummy and a craving for

sweet things. The sufferer may look as if they are about to faint

(and indeed often do) and have to sit down and rest. The symptoms can

be quickly alleviated by eating something sweet - if nothing is done

then the sufferer gradually recovers. These symptoms of hypoglycaemia

can be brought upon by missing a meal (or one's usual sweet snack top

up such as a sweet drink), by vigorous exercise or by alcohol.

Diabetics may become hypoglycaemic if they use too much medication.

When blood glucose levels fall for any reason, glycogen stores in the

liver many be mobilised to prop them up. The trouble is that these

are probably already rather poor in people with increased

carbohydrate intake, where insulin is relied on heavily. Another

rapid and very effective way in which the body repletes the low

glucose is by hepatic conversion of short chain fatty acids to

glucose. In a healthy person on a good balanced diet the only time

this is of importance is during the night because of the long break

between food intake. Short chain fatty acids are then used to prop up

circulating glucose and prevent a fall below whatever that person's

usual fasting glucose level is. Short chain fatty acids are made in

the gut by bacteria fermenting fibre (and such starch as escapes

small intestinal digestion). Production is maximised from about 3

hours after food intake. That is to say, short chain fatty acids are

highly protective against the dips we see in blood sugar.

Therefore, a key symptom of a hypoglycaemic tendency is disturbed

sleep. This occurs typically at 2 – 3 am, when blood sugar levels

fall and there are insufficient short chain fatty acids to maintain a

blood sugar. Low blood sugar is potentially serious to the brain,

which can only survive on sugar and, therefore, there is an adrenalin

reaction to bring the blood sugar back, but this wakes the sleeper up

at the same time.

Test for hypoglycaemia

Measuring blood sugar levels is not a terribly useful test for

hypoglycaemia, partly because they fluctuate so much and partly

because by the time one gets the symptoms of hypoglycaemia, the blood

sugar levels have started to correct. A much better test would be to

measure short chain fatty acids in blood collected in the morning

before breakfast. The test should be done as follow:

• It is important to continue your usual diet – indeed, there

are no special dietary instructions for the test, but the blood

sample must be taken between 9 –12 hours after a meal;

• 2 ml of blood taken into a fluoride oxalate tube and posted

off in an envelope to Acumen.

There is a final twist to the hypoglycaemic tale which complicates

the situation further. When one becomes stressed for whatever reason,

one releases stress hormones in order to allow one to cope with that

stress. Insulin is such a stress hormone and has the effect of

shunting sugar in the blood stream into cells. This produces a drop

in blood sugar levels and also causes hypoglycaemia. Therefore,

hypoglycaemia can be both a cause of stress and the result of stress,

indeed, another one of those vicious cycles that are so often seen in

disease states.

Treatment of Hypoglycaemia

Treatment is to avoid all foods containing sugar and refined

carbohydrate and take extra supplements – see below. The problem for

the established hypoglycaemic is that it may take many weeks or

indeed months for the liver to regain full control of blood sugar and

therefore the symptoms of hypoglycaemia may persist for some time

whilst the sufferer continues to avoid sugar and refined

carbohydrate. This means that when you change your diet you will get

withdrawal symptoms and it may take many weeks of a correct diet

before these symptoms resolve. This type of addiction is very much

like that which the smoker or the heavy drinker suffers from.

One needs to switch to a diet which concentrates on eating proteins,

fats and complex (and therefore slowly digested) carbohydrates.

Initially I suggest doing a high protein high fat diet, but include

all vegetables (care with potato), nuts, seeds, etc. Fruit is

permitted but rationed, since excessive amount of fruit juices or

dried fruits contain too much fruit sugar for the liver to be able to

deal with. I suggest one piece of fruit at mealtimes.

I now consider taking high dose probiotics an essential part of

controlling low blood sugar. This is because probiotics ferment

carbohydrates to short chain fatty acids – these have no effect on

blood sugar and are the preferred fuel of mitochondria. The best and

cheapest way to do this is to brew your own – see section on

PROBIOTICS and KEFIR! Probiotics also displace yeast, which worsen

the hypoglycaemia problem.

With time the regime can be relaxed, but a return to excessive sugar

and refined carbohydrate means the problem starts again.

Finally, many sufferers of hypoglycaemia may need something sweet to

eat immediately before and during exercise, until the body learns to

fully adapt.

Hypoglycaemia is usually accompanied by micronutrient deficiencies.

You should also take nutritional supplements. My experience is that

chronic hypoglycaemia is a very common cause of fatigue in CFS

sufferers.

To tackle hypoglycaemia one needs to do a diet based on foods of low

glycaemic index. The GI is a measure of the ability of foods to raise

one's blood sugar levels. Sugar (ie disaccharides) have arbitrarily

been given a GI of 100. High GI foods are the grains (wheat, rye,

oats rice etc), root vegetables (potato, sweet potato, yam, parsnip),

alcohol, sugars, and fruits, dried fruits and fruit juices. But

expect to see withdrawal symptoms which can persist for weeks.

HYPOGLYCAEMIA - Not just about diet!

Low blood sugar is an extremely common problem and I find myself

talking about this subject more than any other! The body has a very

difficult balancing act with respect to blood sugar. If levels drop

too low, then this will cause unconsciousness and then death. On the

other hand, if the blood sugar level goes too high, glucose will

stick onto many other substances to create advanced glycation end

products. This effectively causes an accelerated ageing. So the

body goes to a great deal of trouble to keep the blood sugar tightly

controlled between about 3mmols and 6mmols per litre. The mechanisms

that achieve this are complicated and therefore there is great

potential for things to go wrong.

This is complicated by the fact that the brain likes sugar. Running

a high blood sugar allows the brain to function efficiently and also

releases the happy neuro-transmitters such as GABA and serotonin

which have a calming effect. We all recognise this because the

comfort-eating foods are carbohydrates. The second problem is that

we have a " thermostat " for blood sugar (this is, if you like, a

measure against which blood sugar levels are compared and

controlled), which I suspect gets set upwards if blood sugars run

consistently high. I believe this because I've seen several people

with diabetes who run consistently high blood sugar levels but feel

hypo if their blood sugars drop below 7 or 8. So whatever

interventions one makes to control high blood sugars must be done

slowly so that this " thermostat " can be gradually reset.

What makes blood sugar go up?

Diet – carbohydrates are broken down into sugars which increase the

blood sugar levels. Foods have been given a measure of this and it

is called the " glycaemic index " . It's a measure of the ability of a

food to raise blood sugar levels. This can be affected by many

factors, not just the food itself. Foods that are cooked will be

more rapidly digested and therefore have a higher glycaemic index.

Foods that are finely divided such as flours, again are more rapidly

digested and therefore have a high glycaemic index. Carbohydrates

that are very soluble such as sugars and alcohol again are rapidly

absorbed. Any carbohydrates that are consumed should therefore be

unrefined complex carbohydrates which are slowly digested, if

possible eaten raw (although this is obviously impossible with some

carbohydrates such as potato).

Foods should be slowly eaten. What causes insulin to be released is

the rate at which the blood sugar level rises. A quick rise will

produce a pulse of insulin which then hangs around for a long time

and causes subsequent hypoglycaemia. So eat foods slowly, don't

gobble them, and mix carbohydrates with high fibre foods, vegetables,

meat and fats so that the absorption of carbohydrate is slowed.

It is easy to identify the carbohydrate addicts – they like their

carbohydrates highly refined such as sugar, sweets, crisps, white

bread, pasta and refined breakfast cereals and fruit juice. They

tend to gobble their food. They are not content with a normal meal

of meat and vegetables without the sweet sticky pudding to follow!

Alcohol – the commonest symptom of alcohol causing hypoglycaemia is

sleeplessness. Initially alcohol helps one to go to sleep, but then

it wakes one up in the small hours with rebound hypoglycaemia.

Which factors affect blood sugar levels?

Stress – one of the stress hormones is insulin. This is because

insulin drives sugar in the blood inside cells so it can be ready for

immediate use. This means blood sugar levels will fall resulting in

hypoglycaemia.

Poor digestion of foods – if proteins are not completely broken down

into amino acids this may result in long chain polypeptides getting

from the gut into the blood stream where they can have insulin-

mimicking effects. This can be tested for by requesting POLYPEPTIDES

IN SERUM. Also see HYPOCHLORHYDRIA and POOR PANCREATIC FUNCTION and

MALABSORPTION.

Probiotics - having the right bugs in the gut means that fibre in the

diet can be broken down into short chain fatty acids such as

acetates, butyrates and propionates. When blood sugar levels run low,

the body switches to short chain fatty acids for fuel. It is this

which protects us from hypoglycaemia between meals especially where

there is a long gap, for example at night. We can test for short

chain fatty acids by measuring levels of acetate, propionate and

butyrate in the blood first thing in the morning before breakfast.

Low levels suggest a tendency to hypoglycaemia. See PROBIOTICS and

KEFIR

Candida and yeast problems – a yeast overgrowth in the gut means that

any sugars, or carbohydrates which get digested to sugars, are then

fermented by yeast. This produces carbon dioxide (and so bloating)

together with alcohol. Alcohol is a high GI food, further

destabilises blood sugar so rebound hypoglycaemia occurs. This makes

the sufferer crave carbohydrate – a clever evolutionary ploy by

candida to make the host eat the very food the yeast wants most! See

YEAST PROBLEMS.

Good micronutrient status - vitamins, minerals, essential fatty

acids, vitamin C and D are all involved in blood sugar control. Two

which seem to be particularly helpful are high dose niacinamide and

chromium. I recommend taking them for two months. Both these

supplements have a profound effect on blood sugar levels to stabilise

them but sometimes have to be given in high doses initially to kick

start the necessary mechanisms. By this I mean niacinamide 500mgs, 3

daily at mealtimes and possibly double this dose. Rarely, niacinamide

in these doses can upset liver enzymes but this is accompanied by

nausea – so if you feel this symptom, reduce the dose to 500mgs

daily. Niacinamide is a really interesting vitamin – it shares the

same action as diazepam (Valium) to produce a calming effect which is

not addictive. I suspect it works because so much anxiety is caused

by low blood sugar and niacinamide helps prevent this.

I also suggest 2mgs of chromium daily. The usual daily requirement

would be a tenth of this but with severe hypoglycaemia there is often

severe chromium deficiency. Niacinamide and chromium work together

synergistically.

Allergies to Foods - this can certainly cause hypoglycaemia – the top

three allergens are grains, dairy products and yeast. But one can be

allergic to any food! See STONEAGE DIET.

Hormonal Effects

Thyroid – or hypothyroidism - Can certainly cause hypoglycaemia. See

HYPOTHYROIDISM

Adrenal Problems and Cortisol

The job of the adrenal gland is to produce the stress hormones to

allow us to move up a gear when the stress comes on. Cortisol raises

blood sugar levels. It is largely excreted during mornings and

declines as the day progresses - this is why we should feel at our

best early in the day, and blood sugar problems get worse as the day

progresses. Often people compensate for this by eating more as the

day goes on and explains why many hypoglycaemics do not need or eat

breakfast with supper being the largest meal of the day. Changing all

of the above will help. But it may be appropriate to do an adrenal

stress profile and actually measure output of the stress hormones

cortisol and DHEA since a small supplement may be very helpful. See

ADRENAL PROBLEMS.

> i had a terrible do today.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi there folks

> i had a terrible do today. I went to the solicitors, it was not

> stressful but I was breathless as usual and sat around quite a while.

> I went for my hubby in the car, and went for a coffee with the family

> afterwards. About 40 mins later I started having symptoms of

> malfunctioning thought patterns, and great fear in my stomach. I had

> not stress dosed, didn t think I needed to. But I got in such a state.

> Was almost psychotic, moaning, trembling, cold, my family were trying

> to calm me down. I did my breathing, but it kept coming over me all

> the time. Got home bp was 182/161 hr 90. Val on the adrenal forum told

> me to go to hospital as it was dangerous, and I agree, but I couldnt

> have gone they would just have said it was the panic probably, also I

> don't trust them not to commit me. So I took 10mg hc, 2.5mg diazepam

> and all together 200mg more q10 and 300mg more magnesium and got it

> down to 172/94 hr vary from 84 -95.

>

> I am wondering and hoping against all hope that I have reached my

> sweet spot and gone past it and that cutting the TH down a little will

> stop this terror and torment.

> My mind is not too bad now although I feel a little like a vegetable,

> very foggy and not too bright a button.

> Can anyone offer me any hope here? I am not wanting to eat at the

> moment but I have done in case of hypoglycemia. Just one thing, I had

> only had 2 slices of toast at 11 am and I started being wierd after

> the coffee at about 4pm.

> One of the funniest things was, I have been breathless all day long,

> but when I was in this state I wasn't. Wierd.

>

> My friends can you help me at all?

>

> lotsa luv

> Dawnx

>

Hi Dawn,

Sorry you are having such a bad time, you must feel v. frightened. Are

you drinking caffeinated coffee? I know it's a bit basic but since

I've had to have adrenal support I have become hypersensitive to

caffeine and any cold remedies with decongestants in (ephedrine based

ones act like adrenaline). I start shaking, pulse wooshes up etc.

You've got a lot going on but it could be a factor. Do you have any

mental health support? I manage mental health conditions and being

physically ill can trigger so many things off - plus tending to get

panicky causes us to notice any health changes. I've been able to get

good mental health support and help with physical stuff - I know OCD

can get triggered under stress - what helped with your OCD before?

I've worked as a MH information and advice worker so I know some good

links & info, but wouldn't want to teach anyone to suck eggs! Er panic

101 - we're you angry at the solicitors? I'd say not to twiddle with

meds - it's not you, but neurophysiologically any strong feelings will

helpfully pull up memories of all the times you have felt this bad

before, in an attempt to fix things, but this makes us feel worse. If

we focus on distraction, relaxation, coping and self soothing skills

then we stand a better chance when it comes problem solving. I know

how scary it is to get such intense anxiety that I feel almost

psychotic so thinking of you and sending you best wishes

x

[Guest guest]

coffee normaly? I know it is the worst known stomach

irritant to man. You are so bright and send such amusing messages all

the time, far too normal to be admitted!

I hope the episode is in the past now, have a better day tommorow.

Luv Stephie

Bless you all

Yes I can get a few palps usually after coffee but this was totally

monumental. I had had terrible acid before leaving the house, now I

know our gut is our second brain and all that but woah lol.

The first ocd and panic was when I first started with this in my early

20s as my thyroid finally failed (they never actually diagnosed me

till 5 years later so I am just assuming I was toxic) I got duller and

doped with the psychiatrists meds I managed however I remember nothing

of my younger days much at all, and I had quite a hard life with

coping with it all. I learned all the breathing coping mechanisms but

it never did anything for the thoughts. The thing that helped those

was seroxat. So said to help ocd and it did for a while but it came

back. Serotonin eh? I need some lol.

This one was certainly not normal panic attacks, I have had those too

and they usually abate withing 30mins and I feel ok again after them.

This is different. Also the bp thing was odd, adrenalin? other

hormone? Still on the seroxat by the way, hmm.

I don't know what to think really I don't but I am enjoying your

lovely posts.

Thankyou.

luv Dawnx

Sat on bed with window wide open at Whitby in winter in my sun top and

I am still boiling

[Guest guest]

Oh by the way , no hon, the solicitor was very nice and on my side

Just wish the neighbours would mind their own business about where

I stay and when I come home, thats what started all the problems. Grrr

lol. There is something in the Bible about God not liking Gossips, I

can certainly understand why, they cause MISERY .

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

>

> Can anyone offer me any hope here? I am not wanting to eat at the

> moment but I have done in case of hypoglycemia. Just one thing, I

had

> only had 2 slices of toast at 11 am and I started being wierd after

> the coffee at about 4pm.

Hi Dawn

I agree with the others that this sounds like hypoglycemia. If I

hadn't eaten between 11am and 4pm, and had had only carbohydrates

for breakfast and then only coffee 5 hours later, I would have felt

dreadful. On top of which you had the stress of the solicitor's

visit which would have necessitated paying even closer attention to

diet than normal to accomodate that.

Hypoglycemia can have dramatic effects on the brain, in the extreme

even causing psychotic like symptoms. Have you come across this

woman's experience before? http://hastingspress.co.uk/mystory.html

I know it's a lot more complicated for you than merely using the

coverall of hypoglycemia but this latest attack really does sound

like it's that to me and of course there is a knock on effect.

I thought the link Mo sent was excellent.

I hope you feel better soon. You've had quite a battering with one

thing and another these last few weeks.

Look after yourself and take care

Love x

[Guest guest]

I can't really comment about the feelings of panic as I don't get

those myself. However, if I only ate toast and coffee I would

probably feel rather unwell. I always start the day with some protein

and fat (often egg on toast with lots of butter), and eat at regular

intervals throughout the day. I generally have meat and veg or fish

and salad or similar for my two other meals. To me it sounds like you

were keeping going on adrenaline and then crashed, but it will be

interesting to see what other people think.

Miriam

I had only had 2 slices of toast at 11 am and I started being wierd

after the coffee at about 4pm.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn.

If the coffee wasn't decaffeinated, your son may very well be right.

Try and check your post-caffeine glucose level once or twice, say an

hour apart.

You may find that's it.

best wishes

Bob

>

> I hope that is all it is Bob but I am not sure, no appetite, crawling

> out of my skin, mind very ocd ish, taken me 3 hours to nearly get back

> to sanity, still not quite there yet. Darnit never thought to take the

> glucose level lol, obvious thing to do at the time but overlooked.

> My son seems to think it might have been the coffee, he could even be

> right, but look at that bp eh? Woppa

> I am very very scared.

> luv Dawnx

>

[Guest guest]

Dawn I would totally agree with Miriams comments. Anyone with

struggling adrenals is encouraged to eat a protein-containing

breakfast. Like Miriam I have eggs for breakfast, but on rye bread

instead of wheat (to avoid the yeast) and with lots of butter. Toast

(if its white bread) is no better than eating sugar in terms of how

your body digests it... the body converts it to glucose. Instant

sugar hit.

Add to that the yeast in bread which will affect any candida problems

you may have. Also many commercial breads contain sugar - you'd have

to check the ingredients listing to see whats in it.

Wholegrain is obviously better from the point of view of sugars, but

there is very little nutrition in there. Considering that you wont

have eaten for say 12 hours before breakfast, its really important to

have a nutritious breakfast.

Add coffee to that mix and your poor adrenals were probably saying

" nooooooooooooooo " . I should add that I love coffee and do drink it

but in limited quantities and always with substantial

protein-containing meals. If I had it on its own I'd be jittery, but

in this way I can tolerate it well.

I hope you're feeling better today

Marie xx

[Guest guest]

You

should not have done so much with only a couple of slices of toast in your

tummy Dawn - though at that particular hour, you obviously had nothing

whatsoever in your tummy and your symptoms might have been caused, as Bob says,

through hypoglycaemia. You should eat a little food on a regular basis and

never go out without eating something first. I hope you are now feeling better

and these symptoms have passed. It might be an idea to telephone your GP to let

him know what happened and get this incident put into your medical notes.

Luv -

Sheila

From:

thyroid treatment [mailto:thyroid treatment ]

On Behalf Of GILL

Sent: 22 January 2009 21:06

To:

thyroid treatment

Subject: Re:

Probem big problem, ocd and panic anxiety from years

ago is back HELP

Hi Dawn - I cant really help but just

wanted to say it must have been scary and hope you're feeling better - it could

be that you have reached your spot and your symptoms are going hyper?

take care,

Gill

[Guest guest]

Goodness Me Dawn; I have no idea what it could be but here are many

cyberhugs ! That should help surely ! Regards Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I really feel for you as that must have been a very scary experience.

Others have mentioned that you could try eating protein for

breakfast. I agree with them. If I eat carbo's for breakfast I

invariably feel some anxiety. So I have got used to eating eggs for

breakfast. The protein seems to settle me down and I think much

more clearly and feel quite calm.

I used to be a complete coffee lover and had to stop drinking it

because I felt really sick and jittery after I had it. I think I

OD'd on coffee - ha ha. So now I sniff the aroma of beautiful

ground coffee, but only allow myself to have the occasional decaf.

It really made a difference to my anxiety levels when I cut out the

coffee. Perhaps it is worth completely cutting out coffee for a

while Dawn. You might have headaches for a couple of days, but once

that is over you will probably feel better.

I hope that you can chat to a medical person that you feel you can

trust because the bp readings you posted are very high.

As far as the panic and anxiety and OCD thoughts go, can you use any

techniques to compliment the use of the drug that you take to deal

with the thoughts?? I know that you wrote that breathing and

relaxation techniques didn't really help. So even though they might

not help much, perhaps it is worth trying some of the old relaxation

techniques again??? What do you think???

I guess the other thing to remember is although you had the

thoughts, anxiety and panic again, it doesn't mean that you are in

the same place in life as you were when you were admitted to

hospital before. Our lives never stay the same and perhaps this is

just a setback. If it is any consolation to you, I think that you

come across as being a good humoured person with great compassion -

not someone ready to be committed. What sort of things make you

feel good Dawn? Do you have a bath? Perhaps you can take a nice

relaxing bath with epson salts and nice essential oils in it, and

light a candle and put it near the bath and put on some nice music,

or do something else that makes you feel relaxed and good about

life. I don't want to sound dumb about that relaxing stuff, but I

really think it can help our bodies to heal. I definitely know that

doing things to help you relax can lower your blood pressure.

Anyway, I hope by the time you receive this message you are feeling

a lot better Dawn.

Lots of love and a big hug from P in sunny Oz xo

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much to all of you, those links and Mo yours, and if I had a

brain I would be dangerous and rememember everyones names who helped

here. Cyberhugs included

I think the general concensus is I need to go on a diet for people

with hyperinsulinema. Where would I find such a diet? Blimey I am

terrible with diets lol. One thing I do love is butter, maybe I can

start from there . Oh and cheese. Eggs make me feel sick, so thats a

blow.

No coffee aghhh I am not sure I can stand it, no more Lattes in my fav

coffee shop. (suppose its better than ill health eh?).

Once again thanks to all of you, you have no idea how much it helps to

know I can possibly do something about this.

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

((((( HUG))))

Probem big problem, ocd and panic

anxiety from years ago is back HELP

Hi there folks

i had a terrible do today. I went to the solicitors, it was not

stressful but I was breathless as usual and sat around quite a while.

I went for my hubby in the car, and went for a coffee with the family

afterwards. About 40 mins later I started having symptoms of

malfunctioning thought patterns, and great fear in my stomach.

My mind is not too bad now although I feel a little like a vegetable,

very foggy and not too bright a button.

Can anyone offer me any hope here? I am not wanting to eat at the

moment but I have done in case of hypoglycemia. Just one thing, I had

only had 2 slices of toast at 11 am and I started being wierd after

the coffee at about 4pm.

One of the funniest things was, I have been breathless all day long,

but when I was in this state I wasn't. Wierd.

My friends can you help me at all?

lotsa luv

Dawnx

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

Sorry to hear about all of this hon, it must have been very

frightening. I don't really have any advice to offer, except to say

that you can find details of a good diet called the Stone Age diet in

Dr Myhill's site. She even suggests some meal ideas which helps!!

I'm not an expert on this, but if you try and think along the lines of

eating things that are as near to their natural state as possible, and

try and incorporate protein in every meal or snack (that can be nuts or

seeds not just meat). You can also try and eat every 2-3 hours, even

if it's just 100 cals snack.

HTH

Leah xxx

>

> Thanks so much to all of you, those links and Mo yours, and if I had a

> brain I would be dangerous and rememember everyones names who helped

> here. Cyberhugs included

> I think the general concensus is I need to go on a diet for people

> with hyperinsulinema. Where would I find such a diet? Blimey I am

> terrible with diets lol. One thing I do love is butter, maybe I can

> start from there . Oh and cheese. Eggs make me feel sick, so thats a

> blow.

> No coffee aghhh I am not sure I can stand it, no more Lattes in my fav

> coffee shop. (suppose its better than ill health eh?).

> Once again thanks to all of you, you have no idea how much it helps to

> know I can possibly do something about this.

>

> lotsa luv

> Dawnx

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn

Sorry to hear you had such a nasty experience - it sounds really

frightening.

Just a couple of points......

Hypoglycaemia can definitely give you panic-like symptoms. I'm on

insulin injections and consequently suffer severe hypoglycaemia at

times. When your blood sugar goes too low, you experience a

counterregulatory reaction, whereby you start pumping out cortisol and

adrenaline. You can feel totally flooded with cortisol and adrenaline

when it happens and it takes a while to calm down.

When I get hypoG, I get a very high pulse rate - it's fast enough to

wake me up from my sleep at night. Also severe hypoglycaemia can cause

mental confusion as your brain is not getting enough glucose for it to

run properly. Other symptoms include shakiness, sweating and pallor.

It does feel very much like a panic attack.

You can buy glucose monitors very cheaply at the moment. If you had

one, you could check your blood sugar next time anything else like

that happens (let's hope it doesn't). Although test strips cost a lot,

you could get a meter that comes with 10 free strips for about £5.

This would give you ten chances to see how your blood sugar is and

possibly some peace of mind.

http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/freestyle-freedom-lite-glucose-monitoring-system_\

1_26595.html

Prevention is definitely better than cure as it is a nasty experience

to go through. If I were you I would definitely start on a low carb,

high protein diet. All carbohydrates are converted into glucose so

even though a bowl of all-bran cereal might seem healthier than a mars

bar - they have a similar heavy load on the body. Healthy people can

cope with the heavy load (to a large degree although we have

increasing levels of T2 Diabetes with with our high carb diet) but if

you have a comprised endocrine system (especially adrenals) it may be

too much for you.

If you really can't stomach eggs, try and eat lots of meat and fish

with your breakfast, lunch and dinner. In Dr Hertoghe's book, he

recommends low-carb with lots of meat to support the adrenals. I don't

know if you're veggie or not though (I used to be veggie but have

found the only way to cope with the hormone problems is to start

eating meat again). Also one good thing about low carbing is that it

helps with weight loss and keeping weight off.

As the others have said, you should really think about giving up

coffee and tea completely. Again Dr Hertoghe said in his book that

those drinks are very harmful to the hormonal system. Although they

give you a boost in the short term, they will knacker your adrenals

over the long term leading to a vicious cycle of bad health. If you

have to drink coffee then try decaffeinated. Otherwise there's no

point in treating your adrenals only to keep battering them with

coffee and high carb food.

take care

E xx

[Guest guest]

Dawn ~ I am in the position now where I am having to seriously rethink

what I am eating and drinking.

Coffee is a hard one for me and I am having just one with breakfast,

avoiding leaving it out completely though I know that is what I should

do.

I am sure I am hypoglaecemic. And you probably are too.

I treat eating regularly the same way as I treat taking my meds so that

I would not go four hours without eating something and try to always

have protein/fat with everything I eat.

If you can keep the blood sugar steady in this way then there is no

need for the pancreas to throw out heaps of insulin to bring high blood

sugar down.

This exhausts the adrenals of course so we really have no choice but to

pay attention to our fuel if we want to make progress.

First basics as I am learning. The hard way!

Mo

>

> Thanks so much to all of you, those links and Mo yours, and if I had a

> brain I would be dangerous and rememember everyones names who helped

> here. Cyberhugs included

> I think the general concensus is I need to go on a diet for people

> with hyperinsulinema. Where would I find such a diet? Blimey I am

> terrible with diets lol. One thing I do love is butter, maybe I can

> start from there . Oh and cheese. Eggs make me feel sick, so thats a

> blow.

> No coffee aghhh I am not sure I can stand it, no more Lattes in my fav

> coffee shop. (suppose its better than ill health eh?).

> Once again thanks to all of you, you have no idea how much it helps to

> know I can possibly do something about this.

>

> lotsa luv

> Dawnx

>

[Guest guest]

Great advice from all of you, looking forward to Dr Ps paper Cheers

Shiela hon for the link too. thanks for the insight into your

hypoglycemia being diabetic, it really helps to know what is going in

with your brain when you think you are going mad hon, that is very

reassuring in a strange way.

While I don't believe in macro-evolution (impossible fairy tale), I do

believe in micro evolution and adaptation. So I know that we are

loaded with the wrong foods in civilization and that the damage has

now been done to my body. So the only way I can go from now on is to

eat like these diets say I should as it is very sensible and

reminiscent of how our ancestors would have survived before corporate

control lol. I don't believe old breads were as damaging as they are

now, it has been a staple all over the world for thousands of years,

however the quality of the ingredients have definately changed, and

the mix we eat it with has changed too. Of course we are going back to

the type of diet of the American indian and other people that didn't

grow things, the hunters, cool. Wouldn't mind nipping out with mi bow

unfortunately it is just as hard to 'hunt' down organic meat at a

reasonable cost and ocean caught fish.

I will however be cutting out bread (sob) as well now as I am at an

exteme point beyond any of the peoples in early civilisations, and

cannot get hold of the ancient bread lol.

Once again, to all who are still learning alongside me (Mo hon x) and

those who are further along. THANKYOU and BIG (((hugs)))

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks so much to all of you, those links and Mo yours, and if I had a

> brain I would be dangerous and rememember everyones names who helped

> here. Cyberhugs included

> I think the general concensus is I need to go on a diet for people

> with hyperinsulinema. Where would I find such a diet?

I did well with the South Beach Diet (though fallen off wagon at

mo)it's designed by a heart doctor specifically to get blood sugar

levels on an even keel - it's a very foodie diet and makes other

dieters envious!

http://www.southbeachdiet.com/sbd/publicsite/funnel/v2/index.aspx I

didn't sign up, I got the book and I get free email tips. I am now

trained to order 'grande decaff skinny cappuccinos' and a very proud

it ;-)

Glad you're feeling better

lisacx

[Guest guest]

I could have sworn I posted back about the diet and saying thanks for

the links? The post seems to have vanised, ah well, you must know I

appreciate it yes?

I think I might have more of a problem, and I doubt if I will ever get

well on any diet (albeit a bit better) due to this

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=3 & t=4921

It explains everything down to the sugar problems and the messing up

of the HPA axis. So where do I go from there, neuroendocrinologist?

Someone about mito failure? which is best? I still think I need to get

off those pills but not knowing how without great problems unless I

stress dose my way through the wean with HC, in fact that might be

something, a way to get off SSRis that nobody has tried. Hmm I wonder?

Actually about 5 years ago I did have a buffalo hump but I never knew

anything about cortisol at that time nor any problems with the Seroxat.

So diet AND weaning eh? Really messed up I am. Unfortunately any other

chronic user of SSRis is too

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

You can get a mix for 'Roman Army Bread'( Tesco, Sainsbury)

that contains spelt- an ancient form of wheat- but you do have to add

yeast. It's very tasty- if a bit solid by modern standards. It may be a

bit nearer to an ancient diet and certainly provides plenty of fibre.

Subject: Re: Probem big problem, ocd and panic

anxiety from years ago is back HELP

I will however be cutting out bread (sob) as well now as I am at an

exteme point beyond any of the peoples in early civilisations, and

cannot get hold of the ancient bread lol.

Once again, to all who are still learning alongside me (Mo hon x) and

those who are further along. THANKYOU and BIG (((hugs)))

lotsa luv

Dawnx

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.