Re: Afshin brought price of Armour down still further...

[Guest guest]

Please to hear the good news i have just received a card saying i have a package

to pick up with a customs charge, total to pay £15.94 dont know if this include

post office charge as well but it tells me i can pay in postage stamps and to

affix them oveleaf can you imagine the card you would not be able to see the

card for stamps ,marie

>

[Guest guest]

This is wonderful news, Sheila. Now we won't have all those terrible delays at

Customs.

> Afshin of www.internationalpharmacy.com who tells me has brought the price

> of Armour down still further, and he is now selling 1 grain (60mgs) at

> £17.03 - this is now less than www.inhousepharmacy.com .

[Guest guest]

Unless afshin is giving free shipping vat and royal mail will still have to be paid because the total is more than £18. The £18 at inhouse includes shippng so no extra to pay.

mary

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Sheila <sheila@...> wrote:

Hi Everybody

I am absolutely delighted to let you all know that I have just heard from Afshin of www.internationalpharmacy.com who tells me has brought the price of Armour down still further, and he is now selling 1 grain (60mgs) at £17.03 - this is now less than www.inhousepharmacy.com . I am so delighted that he has done this and hope this helps everybody who buy's their Armour from him. Now, you will not have to pay VAT and Royal mail handling fees.

Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Afshin is not giving free shipping. The VAT depends on the cost

of the CONTENTS only.

Sheila

Unless afshin is giving free shipping vat and

royal mail will still have to be paid because the total is more than

£18. The £18 at inhouse includes shippng so no extra to pay.

mary

[Guest guest]

Thats great news, a big thanks to Ashfin!

Hi Everybody

I am absolutely delighted to let you all know that I have just heard from Afshin of www.internationalph armacy.com who tells me has brought the price of Armour down still further, and he is now selling 1 grain (60mgs) at £17.03 - this is now less than www.inhousepharmacy .com . I am so delighted that he has done this and hope this helps everybody who buy's their Armour from him. Now, you will not have to pay VAT and Royal mail handling fees.

Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

That isnt correct.

 

" VAT is worked out on the full value of the goods plus postage costs and any duty. The amount of duty varies, depending on what the goods are. "

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/consumers/goods-imported.htm#3

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Sheila <sheila@...> wrote:

Afshin is not giving free shipping. The VAT depends on the cost of the CONTENTS only.

 

Sheila

 

Unless afshin is giving free shipping vat and royal mail will still have to be paid because the total is more than £18. The £18 at inhouse includes shippng so no extra to pay.

mary

 

[Guest guest]

- there IS NO VAT to be paid on goods with a value of less

than £18. Please read the whole of the information in the link before you post

to the forum as incorrect information can cause unnecessary upset and  anxiety

for our members.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/consumers/goods-imported.htm#3

When you don't have to pay VAT or duty on goods you've

bought

There's no VAT to pay if the value of the goods is less than £18.

This doesn't apply to alcohol, tobacco, perfume or toilet water.

Sheila

That isnt correct.

" VAT is worked out on the full value of the goods plus

postage costs and any duty. The amount of duty varies, depending on what the

goods are. "

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/consumers/goods-imported.htm#3

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Sheila <sheila@...> wrote:

Afshin

is not giving free shipping. The VAT depends on the cost of the CONTENTS only.

Sheila

Unless afshin is giving free shipping vat

and royal mail will still have to be paid because the total is more than

£18. The £18 at inhouse includes shippng so no extra to pay.

mary

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.18/2096 - Release Date: 05/04/09

17:51:00

[Guest guest]

Sorry Sheila, is correct when she says that the price including postage

needs to be under £18. However, I've found that if the goods are around the £18

mark it's usually overlooked by customs. I ran into problems when I bought a lot

of swimming costumes from USA and I had to insist on them sending them in

individual packages.

In thyroid treatment , " Sheila " <sheila@...> wrote:

>

> - there IS NO VAT to be paid on goods with a value of less than £18.

> Please read the whole of the information in the link before you post to the

> forum as incorrect information can cause unnecessary upset and anxiety for

> our members.

>

>

>

> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/consumers/goods-imported.htm#3

>

> When you don't have to pay VAT or duty on goods you've bought

>

> There's no VAT to pay if the value of the goods is less than £18. This

> doesn't apply to alcohol, tobacco, perfume or toilet water.

>

>

>

> Sheila

>

>

>

> That isnt correct.

>

>

>

> " VAT is worked out on the full value of the goods plus postage costs and any

> duty. The amount of duty varies, depending on what the goods are. "

>

>

>

> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/consumers/goods-imported.htm#3

>

> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Sheila <sheila@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Afshin is not giving free shipping. The VAT depends on the cost of the

> CONTENTS only.

>

>

>

> Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

> Unless afshin is giving free shipping vat and royal mail will still have to

> be paid because the total is more than £18. The £18 at inhouse includes

> shippng so no extra to pay.

>

> mary

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.18/2096 - Release Date: 05/04/09

> 17:51:00

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Where does it actually state that please. Can you give me a reference?

> According to the link that posted, it states the following:

>

>

is correct. Postal charges are included in the calculation of Import

VAT.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfp\

b=true & _pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent & id=HMCE_CL_000014 & propertyType=document#P4\

0_3190

" Inclusion of postage charges in customs value - Article 165 of EC Regulation

(EEC) 2454/93 requires all postal charges levied up to the place of destination

in respect of goods sent by post to be included in the customs value of the

goods. However, this does not apply to gifts other than those sent by Express

Mail Services. "

" 3.1 How are customs charges calculated?

Charges are raised by Customs staff at the postal depots where the packages are

received. However, in some cases special arrangements are in place for goods

purchased on the internet (see paragraph 3.4 below).

The amount of customs charges payable will depend on the type of goods imported

and the value (converted using the rates of exchange for the month of

importation as shown on the HMRC website) stated on the customs declaration

(CN22/CN23):

Customs duty - this is usually charged as a percentage of the value. The

percentage varies depending on the type of goods and their country of origin.

Duty is charged on the price paid for the goods including any local sales taxes

plus postage, packing and insurance costs. However, postage is excluded from the

calculation for duty on gifts sent by post except for Express Mail Service

(EMS).

Where the value of gifts is below £290 per consignment a flat rate of duty of

3.5% will be applied, but only if it is to your advantage.

Note: Customs duty will be waived if the amount is less than £7.

Excise duty - this is charged on alcohol and tobacco products and is additional

to customs duty. The excise duty on wines and spirits depends on the alcohol

content and whether wine is sparkling or still. Duty on cigarettes is based on

the percentage of the recommended retail selling price combined with a quantity

charge. On other tobacco products eg cigars or hand rolling tobacco, it is

charged on the net weight.

Value Added Tax (VAT) - Import VAT is charged at the same rate that applies to

similar goods sold in the UK. The value of the goods for import VAT is based on

the value for customs duty plus any import duties charged. "

So, I guess it depends how the label is labelled with the cost... and whether or

not they think it includes postage or not.

HTH

Cat.

[Guest guest]

Links

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true & _pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent & id=HMCE_CL_000014 & propertyType=document#P107_9107

Value Added Tax (VAT) - Import VAT is charged at the same rate that applies to similar goods sold in the UK. The value of the goods for import VAT is based on the value for customs duty plus any import duties charged.

>> Hi Everybody> I am absolutely delighted to let you all know that I have just heard fromAfshin of www.internationalpharmacy.com who tells me has brought the price of Armour down still further,

[Guest guest]

>

> .and what are the rates that apply to " similar goods " i.e. medicines, sold

> in the UK. I didn't think that medicines were charged VAT in the UK. This

> doesn't make sense. SHOULD we be charged VAT at all?

>

>

>

> Has anybody any comments about this. Something doesn't seem quite right

> here.

>

>

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

Isn't this where we are running foul of the loop-hole that allows us to import.

If they are prescription medications then no, there's no VAT but that's because

you can't buy it over the counter. However, we are importing it and so it is

treated as 'health products' and we are subject to VAT.

In the ideal world we wouldn't have any of this hassle because we'd get it on

the NHS for free. That's not happening yet though, and I, for one, am prepared

to pay VAT if it means I can have my health... They have me by the short and

curlies in that respect, I don't like it, but I have no other choice. I do wish

I could pay the VAT up front though, so I didn't have to line the PO's pocket

every time.

Cat.

Cat.

[Guest guest]

Well, I ordered some this afternoon, so I'll report back in due course

on whether I get clobbered for VAT and the Royal Mail Rip-Off Charge!

[Guest guest]

I have emailed HMRC for clarification - i thought it was if the price of the

goods exceeded £18 that VAT was charged but looking at the FAQs on the website,

it's not clear.

I'll forward the mail on when I get a reply

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

It is only a prescription medicine for those who get it on prescription.

Because we get it from abroad we are geting around the system of it being a

prescription medicine in the UK. Unfortunately we have to pay the VAT on what

we bring into te country.

Val

If this is a loop hole then we need to get it mended. Armour Thyroid is a

prescription medicine, both in the UK and the US - yet UK citizens can buy such

medicines from abroad without the need for a prescription and US residents can

also buy prescription medicines from abroad without a prescription. I can't

quite get my head around this - can somebody help with definitive information

here please and explain whether we SHOULD or should NOT be paying VAT at Customs

on such medications.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

The confusion here is that if the goods are over £18, then VAT is charged on the

total amount including the shipping cost, also including VAT on Duty if it is

for an item which charges Duty (not medicines or supplements).

Val

There would be no point in Afshin bringing the price to below £18 if the

shipping fee has also to be included in the £18 " value " … and we have to

continue paying VAT

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Unfortunately not. You are confusing Duty & VAT. VAT is payable as we are not

using a prescription to get the meds (prescription meds do not attract VAT), but

Duty is not payable on this sort of item (meds & supplements where you do not

use a prescription to buy them). It is worth knowing about the Duty side as I

have been charged Duty on supplements before but managed to claim it all back.

I have just spoken at length to Customs about the £18 thingee. I have confirmed

( & got a call reference for it) that the £18 refers to the goods before adding

on the postage cost, but as I have said before if it is over £18 then at that

point the shipping gets added before working out the amount of VAT to charge us.

He is going to send me some paperwork but in case this is not clear enough he

suggested that I write asking for confirmation to the on-line enquiries, so I

will do that as well, and will let you know what that says.

Val

Thanks Val - so as the 'item' we are talking about is in the category of

medicines or supplements, then no VAT should be charged.

[Guest guest]

I'll have a crack at this and wait for someone to knock it down.

A GP can prescribe either NHS (Zero rate VAT) or private (Standard rate VAT) or

from his own dispensing unit for remote patients.

There is no UK supplier of Armour, so competition law (argument) doesn't

apply.........the supplier is US and does not compete with

an equivalent UK brand... there isn't one.

The VAT exemption seems to apply to NHS supplies only.

For private prescriptions there is a supposed VAT liability if the product is a

medicine ie it has a product licence....

Armour doesn't have a product licence...it was grandfathered in.....as in the

US.

The next question to ask is does it qualify as a foodstuff.

On balance it probably does.....comes into the questionable area.

Is it a possible 'herb' or homeopathic remedy?

My unqualified (legal) suggestion is that it needs to go before a VAT tribunal.

best wishes

Bob

>

> Thanks Val - so as the 'item' we are talking about is in the category of

> medicines or supplements, then no VAT should be charged.

>

>

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

> Hi Sheila,

>

> The confusion here is that if the goods are over £18, then VAT is charged on

the total amount including the shipping cost, also including VAT on Duty if it

is for an item which charges Duty (not medicines or supplements).

>

> Val

>

[Guest guest]

>

> If this is a loop hole then we need to get it mended. Armour Thyroid is a

> prescription medicine, both in the UK and the US - yet UK citizens can buy

> such medicines from abroad without the need for a prescription and US

> residents can also buy prescription medicines from abroad without a

> prescription.

>

>

> Isn't this where we are running foul of the loop-hole that allows us to

> import. If they are prescription medications then no, there's no VAT but

> that's because you can't buy it over the counter. However, we are importing

> it and so it is treated as 'health products' and we are subject to VAT.

>

It does indeed look as though there is a loop hole which allows us to buy

medicines without prescription, but as then they are no longer classed as

medicines the penalty is the VAT. It's a very convenient loop hole, even if

it's expensive. I would be VERY WARY of shouting too loud about it, as if too

much public attention is drawn to the loophole, the govt will have to be seen to

be acting and it may well no go the way we would wish. They may decide we can

only buy abroad if we have a prescription. Best to just keep our heads below

the parapet on this one surely?

[Guest guest]

>

> Can you point me to the official reference for your statement please. I have

> given a reference to show that goods under £18 are excluded VAT - no mention

> is made of shipping costs that must be included. There would be no point in

> Afshin bringing the price to below £18 if the shipping fee has also to be

> included in the £18 " value " … and we have to continue paying VAT.

>

>

>

> Although the sum charged for 1 grain Armour does include packaging and

> worldwide airmail delivery at InHouse Pharmacy - this doesn't automatically

> mean that all other pharmacies who charge £18 or less for a product should

> also include packaging and shipping in that price before VAT is charged.

> Also, InHousePharmacy have no Armour (whatever the grain) in stock at all,

> and they have not had any for weeks. If you still feel I am giving out

> incorrect information, then please, as asked above, will you let us have the

> specific official reference to this.

>

>

>

> Sheila

>

I highlighted sections in my original post taken from the link (hmrc one) given

there.

" Inclusion of postage charges in customs value - Article 165 of EC Regulation

(EEC) 2454/93 requires all postal charges levied up to the place of destination

in respect of goods sent by post to be included in the customs value of the

goods. However, this does not apply to gifts other than those sent by Express

Mail Services. "

From this above statement it says that to calculate the customs value of goods

all postal charges up to the point of destination is included.

Then if you look at how they work out Import VAT from the same link it says:

" Value Added Tax (VAT) - Import VAT is charged at the same rate that applies to

similar goods sold in the UK. The value of the goods for import VAT is based on

the value for customs duty plus any import duties charged. "

So the value of the goods is the same as that used for working out customs

duties which from the EU Regulation highlighted above DOES include postal

charges. Fortunately there are no import duties on medications otherwise they'd

charge VAT on that too.

HTH

Cat.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob,

Sorry, I will knock this down!

A prescription either NHS or private means no VAT - it is a while since I specialised in VAT (previous life) so will not attempt to say whether they are zero-rated or exempt (this is not the same if we are being pedantic).

Val

A GP can prescribe either NHS (Zero rate VAT) or private (Standard rate VAT) or from his own dispensing unit for remote patients.There is no UK supplier of Armour, so competition law (argument) doesn't apply.........the supplier is US and does not compete with an equivalent UK brand... there isn't one. The VAT exemption seems to apply to NHS supplies only.For private prescriptions there is a supposed VAT liability if the product is a medicine ie it has a product licence....

[Guest guest]

I agree totally . There has been enough comments in the press recently slating the buying of drugs from abroad for one reason & another. It all makes me nervous.

Val

It does indeed look as though there is a loop hole which allows us to buy medicines without prescription, but as then they are no longer classed as medicines the penalty is the VAT. It's a very convenient loop hole, even if it's expensive. I would be VERY WARY of shouting too loud about it, as if too much public attention is drawn to the loophole, the govt will have to be seen to be acting and it may well no go the way we would wish. They may decide we can only buy abroad if we have a prescription. Best to just keep our heads below the parapet on this one surely?

[Guest guest]

>>

> It does indeed look as though there is a loop hole which allows us to buy

medicines without prescription, but as then they are no longer classed as

medicines the penalty is the VAT. It's a very convenient loop hole, even if

it's expensive. I would be VERY WARY of shouting too loud about it, as if too

much public attention is drawn to the loophole, the govt will have to be seen to

be acting and it may well no go the way we would wish. They may decide we can

only buy abroad if we have a prescription. Best to just keep our heads below

the parapet on this one surely?

>

>

>

That's the way I feel too.

While we are prevented from getting Armour through our GPs, then I am thankful

we can get Armour from abroad without a prescription.

Cat.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila Afshin has agreed to refund me when the armour is return to him

Marie.

>

>

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

> Please to hear the good news i have just received a card saying i have a

> package to pick up with a customs charge, total to pay £15.94 dont know if

> this include post office charge as well but it tells me i can pay in postage

> stamps and to affix them oveleaf can you imagine the card you would not be

> able to see the card for stamps ,marie

> >

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.18/2096 - Release Date: 05/04/09

> 17:51:00

>