Re: Sudden swelling of ankles - Update Please

[Guest guest]

Hi Shelia, so whats happening with this - has it eased - have you spoken to Dr

P..............questions question questions.........

F:

>

> Hi Everybody

>

> Can somebody tell me what's going on. I have always had a tendency to retain

> fluids most of my adult life but this has always been kept under control

> with a diuretic (Co-Amizolide 50mgs daily). The past couple of days, I felt

[Guest guest]

Are you any better this morning Shiela?

Hope so

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Hi

I had this really badly a while back..Swelling was about two inches deep .. . I

found that 6 trips to the acupuncturist helped... Now I only get a little

swelling....and I can move my ankles now.

Does anyone else use alternative treatments to relieve symptons?

Hope you feel better soon

Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Were you taking the chalky version of Armour?

that may need a top-up of T3 ?

best wishes

Bob

>

> I woke this morning with slim ankles like a young girl - I slipped on my

sandals and they almost fell off my feet. I weighed myself and I had lost four

pounds. I feel light all over my body and I cannot believe how swollen I was

over the last 3 days.

[Guest guest]

hi Sheila

Thats really good news. I think we were all a bit scared and worried for you

too.

take care, judyx

>

> I woke this morning with slim ankles like a young girl - I slipped on my

> sandals and they almost fell off my feet. I weighed myself and I had lost

> four pounds. I feel light all over my body and I cannot believe how swollen

> I was over the last 3 days. I had doubled my diuretic and added 10mcgs of T3

> (recommended by Dr Peatfield) and, of course, put my feet up whenever I

> could - so this seems to have done the trick. I no longer have the headache

> or the breathing problem. It is almost miraculous. I just hope it doesn't

> build up again, because I can tell you, I was a little scared as to why

> this had suddenly happened.

>

>

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

http://www.commonsleader.gov.uk/output/page2464.asp

The main benefits of a Bill could be:

• to reinforce the core purpose and values of the NHS and to introduce measures to make the NHS as effective at preventing ill health and promoting wellbeing as it is at cures;

• to strengthen public involvement in Primary Care Trusts' commissioning arrangements;

• to allow the possibility for those patients, who wish to do so, to have greater control over the management of their care.

National Health Service Reform Bill

The main purpose of the Bill is to: take forward those proposals arising from Lord Darzi's `NHS Next Stage Review' of the NHS in England that would require legislation to enable their implementation.

The main elements of a Bill might be:

[[ one of them is mentioned above. ]]

I note Dr Ian Gibson has resigned and there will be a bye-election in Norwich North.

If it needs a change of government, an abandonment of federalisation in Europe ~ so be it.

A proposed bill that will address these issues implies that we are hobbled until change comes.

Dr Gibson was signatory of the Early Day Motion 1793.

and very keen to get the Nuclear Test Victims cases aired ~ will now happen but advised to settle out of court by the senior judge.

A government keen to acknowledge the D-Day landings yet prepared to wage war upon its own people through medical neglect ~ is facing both ways.

We will get things changed, one way or another

best wishes

Bob

>> Well - there you go Bob. I have just posted that Dr P advised me to take> 10mcgs T3 - and it worked. And yes, I was taking chalky Armour. When I told> him I was concerned about the symptoms, he said there must be a reason why> this had happened so suddenly, and we have probably now hit this on the> head. I really don't want to have to add synthetic T3 because that is adding> to the expense as both and I are on Armour, so I will try the> experiment of adding another half grain of Armour to see if that does the> job as good.> > > > Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

It seems crazy that if this sudden flare-up has been caused by low T3, water

tablets should be the only treatment in many other cases, where there may be an

implied cardiac association (CHF).

Both my late MIL and DW have had the cardiac symptoms arising from Hashimoto's;

in the case of MIL also a heart murmur from a probable 'floppy' valve.

Belated thyroxine treatment of MIL undoubtedly affected (caused?) her cardiac

condition........and a further implication is that she lacked adequate T3 from

that 'thryoxine only' treatment....as illustrated in your own experience.

Glad it's improved greatly....wow, see them ankles...

best wishes

Bob

>

> Well - there you go Bob. I have just posted that Dr P advised me to take

> 10mcgs T3 - and it worked. And yes, I was taking chalky Armour. When I told

> him I was concerned about the symptoms, he said there must be a reason why

> this had happened so suddenly, and we have probably now hit this on the

> head.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob, I am glad you asked this question as I wasn't 'game' enough !!!!LOL ;-)

F

> Hi Sheila,

>

> Were you taking the chalky version of Armour?

>

> that may need a top-up of T3 ?

>

> best wishes

> Bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's OK ,

The questions I ask fly 'over the top' of Prof W's abode on their way to Sheila.

.....probably a direct line if it's via the microwave tower just above us.

Shame we can't move a Corus blast furnace back to Sheffield to get their feet

warm ~ Dawn wouldn't like it ~ that's the only way she can get hers to wake up

in the morning...feet outta the window let the blast furnace walls radiate their

spare infra-red rays (Note: not Microwave 'range' ~ else you'll only get half

marks for answering the wrong question ~ under exam conditions ).

Hence the term " Baked Alaska " ~ topical for a Professor Sweetman...?

see the note about the New University of Antarctica ~

where politicians and dangerous professors can retire, to while away the days

dreaming up more excuses for people with cold feet.......

Earn themselves a Nobel Prize watching the sky..........digging up the odd

dinosaur.....using PCR to re-create one......

earning a Noble Prize for dreaming up PCR.......

Discover the reason for waking up feeling lousy .....(Prof Arendt University of

Surrey)

finding water under the Antarctic ice sheet

melting the said ice sheet with a blow lamp...

discovering that the water under the Antarctic Ice Sheet is sea water....

etc

Bob

>

> Hi Bob, I am glad you asked this question as I wasn't 'game' enough !!!!LOL

;-)

>

> F

> > Hi Sheila,

> >

> > Were you taking the chalky version of Armour?

> >

> > that may need a top-up of T3 ?

> >

> > best wishes

> > Bob

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

from the Wiki on Dopamine

Peripheral effects

Dopamine also has effects when administered through an IV line outside the CNS. The brand name of this preparation is known as Intropin. The effects in this form are dose dependent.

Dosages from 2 to 5 ìg/kg/min are considered the "renal dose."[44] At this low dosage, dopamine binds D1 receptors, dilating blood vessels, increasing blood flow to renal, mesenteric, and coronary arteries; and increasing overall renal perfusion.[45] Dopamine therefore has a diuretic effect, potentially increasing urine output from 5 ml/kg/hr to 10 ml/kg/hr.[citation needed]

Intermediate dosages from 5 to 10 ìg/kg/min additionally have a positive inotropic and chronotropic effect through increased â1 receptor activation. It is used in patients with shock or heart failure to increase cardiac output and blood pressure.[45] Dopamine begins to affect the heart at the lower doses, from about 3 ìg/kg/min IV.[46]

High doses from 10 to 20 ìg/kg/min is the "pressor" dose.[citation needed] This dose causes vasoconstriction, increases systemic vascular resistance, and increases blood pressure through á1 receptor activation;[45] but can cause the vessels in the kidneys to constrict to the point where they will become non-functional.[citation needed]

Hi Sheila,

I don't know if this might be the cause of the kidneys suddenly not wanting to work ....maybe low T3 affects the conversion of Dopamine to Norarenalin? ie elevated dopamine in a 24hr urine test, as Tracey (redharrisa) had the other day.

best wishes

Bob>> Well - there you go Bob. I have just posted that Dr P advised me to take> 10mcgs T3 - and it worked. And yes, I was taking chalky Armour. When I told him I was concerned about the symptoms, he said there must be a reason why this had happened so suddenly,

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

and that (dopamine) might explain what happened to your head too....?

Bob

>

> Well - there you go Bob. I have just posted that Dr P advised me to take

10mcgs T3 - and it worked. And yes, I was taking chalky Armour. When I told him

I was concerned about the symptoms,

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Surely you can get the T3 on NHS prescription?

Val

I really don't want to have to add synthetic T3 because that is addingto the expense as both and I are on Armour, so I will try theexperiment of adding another half grain of Armour to see if that does thejob as good.

[Guest guest]

Shelia, before Nick alerted us, I had gone from a steady 3gr for years to adding

an extra 1 and 1/2 PLUS slowly adding T3 until I was up to 60mcg T3. and I was

even thinking of going up to 6 Grain. Remember Nick went up to 12 Grains without

affect.

It will be interesting to see how members using different batch numbers fair

towards the end of the bottle.

I am now on 60mcgT3 only and perfectly fine on just that

I am wondering if new armour very slowly looses its potency, or the previous

armour stored in the cells gets depleted over a couple of months and the new

armour is not replacing it.????

Its far cheaper for me to take 60mcg T3 than armour. (T3 - $5 for 100 tabs and

armour - $150 for 100 tabs)

Oh - and just for good measure I had even been eating pork sausages again,

although not with such urgency !!!! - now that should have told me something was

wrong all on its own.....

F

>

> Hi Sheila,

>

> Surely you can get the T3 on NHS prescription?

>

> Val

>

> I really don't want to have to add synthetic T3 because that is adding

> to the expense as both and I are on Armour, so I will try the

> experiment of adding another half grain of Armour to see if that does the

> job as good.

>

[Guest guest]

So the Armour is the cause, right, I wondered but as you had been ok on it

Shiela I dared to hope it was just one batch, seems wider spread than that.

Hope that upping it works for you, testimonials would suggest it won't though.

Glad though that you are much better and slimed down and back in action

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Are you short of Vit B1 (pork is a good source)?

best wishes

Bob

>

> Shelia, before Nick alerted us, I had gone from a steady 3gr for years to

adding an extra 1 and 1/2 PLUS slowly adding T3 until I was up to 60mcg T3. and

I was even thinking of going up to 6 Grain. Remember Nick went up to 12 Grains

without affect.

>

> It will be interesting to see how members using different batch numbers fair

towards the end of the bottle.

>

> I am now on 60mcgT3 only and perfectly fine on just that

>

> I am wondering if new armour very slowly looses its potency, or the previous

armour stored in the cells gets depleted over a couple of months and the new

armour is not replacing it.????

>

> Its far cheaper for me to take 60mcg T3 than armour. (T3 - $5 for 100 tabs and

armour - $150 for 100 tabs)

>

> Oh - and just for good measure I had even been eating pork sausages again,

although not with such urgency !!!! - now that should have told me something was

wrong all on its own.....

>

> F

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

We must be talking (en)D(o)-Day, heads over parapets here!

best wishes

Bob

>

> Since the Royal College of Physician's Diktat - and the way my

> endocrinologist is watching his back, I don't want to ask him for anything

> else Val. He stopped my Armour after 6 years of me being VERY healthy on it.

> I believe he has ambitions - watch the BTA members of the Executive

> Committee list!

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, I'm glad to hear you are feeling better. Do you think the new Armour

formulation has anything to do with your health problems, or did Dr P give an

alternative explanation?

Miriam

> I woke this morning with slim ankles like a young girl - I slipped on my

sandals and they almost fell off my feet. I weighed myself and I had lost four

pounds.

[Guest guest]

---Thanks for clarifying Nick - Its important we get it right. The highest I had

ever heard of before was 7 Grains -

F

>

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nick,

I'm trying to get my head around the role of MonoCarboxylate Transporters

(MCTs), of which MCT8 is the t4/t3/rt3/t2 transporter,

said to be sodium- and hydrogen-ion-independent transporter(s).

http://dx.doi.org/10.1139/H05-002

Distribution of monocarboxylate transporters MCT1–MCT8 in rat tissues and humans

skeletal muscle

Arend Bonen, Miriam Heynen, and Hideo Hatta

Appl. Physiol. Nutr. Metab. 31: 31–39 (2006)

also covered in detail by (Weisemar et al 2003)

best wishes

Bob

>

> >Shelia, before Nick alerted us, I had gone from a steady 3gr for years to

adding an extra 1 and 1/2 PLUS slowly adding T3 until I was up to 60mcg T3. and

I was even thinking of going up to 6 Grain. Remember Nick went up to 12 Grains

without affect.

>

.....

> Just to clarify I was on 12 grains of OLD Armour and doing well.

>

> 12 of new left me feeling horrible, I reduced to see if that helped

> and it didn't.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi I read on another group that expiry dates before a certain date (did not record this but may have been aug or thereabouts 10) were the old method for armour. Has anyone any facts re this? I have 2 new bottles each of armour of 1 grain & 1.5 grain that expire in 02/10 & wondered if they are definitely the "old" ones. I have swallowed armour for a few years & so would not notice any difference, but at the moment I am not taking armour anyway. I have been reading the complaints with the new one with interest as I have to decide what to do after my time on T3 only is over, and I know the endo is keen for me to go on to T4 & T3 both synthetic to try this rather than back on to armour as I have never taken just T4 & T3 as I started on armour & later added in T4.

Val

It will be interesting to see how members using different batch numbers fair towards the end of the bottle.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

This should go a long way to providing an explanation.

http://www.hh.um.es/pdf/Vol_24/24_2/Merezhinskaya-24-243-264-2009.pdf

Monocarboxylate transporters: Past, present, and future

Division of Environmental Toxicology, Environmental and Infectious Disease Sciences Department, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Washington, USA

Histol Histopathol 24, 243-264 (2009)

Bob

>> We don't know, at the moment, we can only guess what might have happened. I> will see what happens in the future and if I find the cause, will let you> know.> > Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

from the review:-

http://www.hh.um.es/Abstracts/Vol_24/24_2/24_2_243.htm

[[...Expressed in Xenopus oocytes, TAT1 exhibited a low affinity (Km=5 mM) transport of tryptophan, tyrosine, and phenylalanine and their N-methyl- and N-acetylderivatives, but none for lactate or pyruvate. Unlike previously described MCTs, TAT1 transport was not coupled with H+, but rather supported an electroneutral facilitated diffusion of these amphoteric compounds....]]

making progress

Bob

>> We don't know, at the moment, we can only guess what might have happened. I> will see what happens in the future and if I find the cause, will let you> know.> > > > Luv - Sheila> > > > > > > Hi Sheila, I'm glad to hear you are feeling better. Do you think the new> Armour formulation has anything to do with your health problems, or did Dr P> give an alternative explanation?> Miriam>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

from the review (contd) :-

[[...Most recently, a new MCT8 mutation (proline 537 to leucine) was found to cause the same phenotype, and the authors noted the importance of recognizing neonatal hypotonia as a harbinger to signal early efforts at diagnosis and hormonal therapy, which has so far been unsuccessful (Papadimitriou et al., 2008). A final twist to this story has just been issued by Visser's group, which has now shown by transfection of COS1 cells, that human MCT10, aside from its modest ability to transport aromatic amino acids, is as potent a transporter of T4 and T3 as is human MCT8 (Friesema et al., 2008). It is obvious from reported cases that it cannot rescue MCT8 deficiency, but not why, nor what its endocrine functions are. We can expect to see much new information on these items from new studies on available animal models of this disease. ....]]

getting closer

Bob

>> We don't know, at the moment, we can only guess what might have happened. I will see what happens in the future and if I find the cause, will let you know.> > Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I think this is sufficiently important that it should stay on this forum ~ people do ignore what I put up if it's too difficult ~ but others do understand and can follow up for themselves.

Division of Environmental Toxicology, Environmental and Infectious Disease Sciences Department, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Washington, USA

These guys desparately want to know what's killing or disabling fighting soldiers in the field, what might save their lives within minutes, what trauma is so disabling that they must evacuate immediately etc.

I think we may be finding answers here.

They're not far off giving us a real and immediate pay-off for ordinary folk.

Colin Dayan is hopeful that this work (Visser et al) will continue to fill out his own investigations on non-responders to just T4.

has intiated her own work to find some answer for all of us...

best wishes

Bob

>> HI Bob - I think this is way beyond our comprehension and should go to> LabGab.> Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

from the review :-

[[...Finally, we return to the main sarcolemmal function of MCT1-4, namely, the prevention of excessive acidosis in heavily glycolysing cells by exporting the resulting lactic acid. Its intra-cellular accumulation is not without some salutary effects, the most well-known being the Bohr effect, describing the increased dissociation of HbO2 as the blood pH falls below normal. This seems to occur at just the right time to provide extra oxygen to the heart and exercising musculature, which is when the capillary PO2 has fallen to a critical level (Wasserman, 1999)....]]

something about that breathlessness that seems to refer to both yourself, Dawn, Lilian and many others

......acidosis ? at some point....or, alternativcly, alkalosis...

either of these might take place within a sub-cellular compartment....

lets see if we can track down the location....

has started a very relevant investigation on her own intiative, using precisely timed vit C dosing.

and has an interesting observation...

best wishes

Bob

>> We don't know, at the moment, we can only guess what might have happened. I> will see what happens in the future and if I find the cause, will let you> know.> > > Luv - Sheila