Re: Do you tell your GP about private treatment?

[Guest guest]

That is rather a tricky one Enkai. The private doctor I went to see - in the hopes that my own GP would not know about it because I knew how he would react - said that although he didn't strictly HAVE to, he would prefer to write to my GP.

The only way we got round it was that he would say I consulted him as a nutritionist with regard to the fact I was having a problem losing weight, and as he was also a doctor he had some tests done and it was found that I was not converting to T3, and that in his opinion, a nutritional answer would not solve my weight problem without first addressing my thyroid problem, and that he was therefore prescribing T3 for me.

In this way my GP could not object to me seeing another 'doctor' for something he could deal with but for something outside the medical profession - no different than going to see a Weight Watchers expert .

Lilian

[Guest guest]

Hi Enkai, good question. I'm very lucky because I have found a GP

(after many idiots!) who is very understanding and supports me seeing

Dr P. He's quite open about the fact that the NHS is messed up and is

intrigued to see what happens with me. He prescribed Armour for the

first time in his career after seeing me improve after taking it for

a couple of months. He is nervous about it but has assured me he

wants to do his best for me and said there is no need to fight

anymore to get anywhere so I can relax lol. He has even asked to read

Dr P book so gave him my copy. I have just started HC per Dr P as my

adrenals seem to be worse than we thought and stopped improving after

a while on Armour. I will tell my NHS GP that I have started taking

it but won't do anything like ask him to prescribe it until we're all

sure that HC is going to help. I don't want to ruin my GP's career

lol. Even if my GP wasn't understanding I'd still tell him, I'd want

everything down in my notes to prove they were wrong to dismiss me

lol. Ruth x

>

> Hi all

>

> Just wondering for those of you who go to Dr P or who self-treat,

did you mention what

> you are doing to your GP or not? I'm just wondering if you did tell

(for example that you

> are taking Armour or HC even though the GP thinks you don't need

it), what was the kind

> of response you got and did it affect subsequent care you received?

>

> I have visions of being struck off the list if I go the private

route but am not got nowhere

> with an NHS endo.

>

> Thanks

> Enkai

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Lillian and Lostgirl,

It seems that keeping the GP informed has worked for both of your. I

am in two minds as I can imagine NHS doctors having a fit about things

like HC and Armour but I suppose it is best to be honest.

Enkai

[Guest guest]

Actually, it didn't work for me in the long run Enkai. Now, five years later, I am having problems with the GP, who has now refused to be my doctor if I continue with the T3.

Do you have a diagnosis of hypothyroidism, or has the doctor told you that you are OK.

A friend of mine was told that she was normal. She went to a private doctor who prescribed Armour and has been taking it for several years now and her GP does not know, and does not even think to test her for it because she never goes to him with thyroid symptoms. It is down on her notes that there is nothing wrong with her thyroid.

Unfortunately as I am diabetic I have my blood tested every six months, and as I had been diagnosed hypothyroid some 20 years ago, I cannot do what my friend has done.

If I had been told that I was normal, I personally would leave it like that, and then go to the private doctor to make me normal lol and everyone will be happy.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

Hi Lillian

That really sucks. What has happened with your GP? Are you still

taking the T3?

I'm in the same boat as I also have to go for regular checks for HbA1c

etc. If it wasn't for that then I would be much less bothered about

whether to tell my GP as the GP would see a lot less of me!

Enkai

[Guest guest]

Enkai,

I stopped taking the T3 in June when the GP threatened me. I have been finding it impossible to budge either endo or GP. Regardless of presenting them with pages of research and facts, they just do not want to know.

I have asked to be referred to another endo, and will be seeing him in November, but I have been told he will be thinking the same way as they do. I am very suspicious as to how he could be so adamant about that.

They are completely BTF followers. It is quite a vicious circle. The more powerful the BTF the more scared doctors are of going against them, but by not going against them they are making the BTF even stronger.

My problem was that I had been hypothyroid for a long time so they regularly monitored my thyroid from that stand point.

However, if we all do not tell our doctors, then how are they going to know how many of us are still ill. But then, do they care.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

I have not told my Endo about starting Armour he gave me a 2 month prescription

for T4 and T3 and said see you again in 5 months, he kept saying how happy he

was that he thought I would get well on the combination therapy and nothing else

would work so I didnt bother telling him, I figure I have enough time to see if

Armour is working for me by the time I next see him.

Michele

[Guest guest]

Hi Michele

It's a pity you didn't take up his offer of synthetic T4 and T3

as this really does work well for a number of people. You should perhaps have

tried that first, because you would get that free of charge and not had to pay

for a prescription - especially as we have to take thyroid hormone replacement

for the rest of our lives. If that didn't work, then you could have given

Armour a trial. There are very few endocrinologist who will prescribe a

combination therapy these days - so you were lucky to get such an offer. How

long have you been taking Armour now and how much levothyroxine and

liothyronine did your endocrinologist prescribe for you?

I think when he said that nothing else would work, he probably

meant T4 on its own.

Luv - Sheila

I have not told my Endo about starting Armour

he gave me a 2 month prescription for T4 and T3 and said see you again in 5

months, he kept saying how happy he was that he thought I would get well on the

combination therapy and nothing else would work so I didnt bother telling him,

I figure I have enough time to see if Armour is working for me by the time I

next see him.

Michele

[Guest guest]

Sheila I did, I have been taking both T3 and T4 the 2 month prescription he gave

me was for the next course I already had been taking it I liked the T3 I felt

better on it but I didnt like each increase of T4, he cut the T4 down to 50 and

the T3 was 10mcg then the T4 went up to 75 then he wanted to increase it to 100

thats when he gave me another prescrip and I said thanks came home and started

the Armour.

Do you think I should have carried on with the T4 and T3 then?

Michele

[Guest guest]

Lilian I'm sorry you are in such a bad situation with these doctors. I

really hope the next endo works out but as you say, if they are all

BTF followers then we don't really stand a chance. Was it possible to

get a second opinion from someone on Sheila's list or did you GP make

you go to this new endo. Your situation has definitely given me pause

for thought. I think I would find it almost impossible to lie as I am

supposed to be monitored regularly for my TFT. It will look very

strange if my TSH is suddenly suppressed!

, that's cool that your endo even offered T4 and T3, and I

suppose if the Armour doesn't work (though I'm sure it will) you could

always just fill the prescription for T4 + T3 and try that instead. At

least you have got some options.

[Guest guest]

I think the endocrinologist should have explained what he was

doing and why he was doing it. If you needed T3, that was probably because you

were not converting the inactive hormone T4 into the active hormone T3. I would

have thought in that case, he surely would have increased the T3 until you got

onto a reasonable dose so you started to feel your symptoms going away,

especially as you say you were feeling better on the T3. Did you have a blood

test done before your endocrinologist put your dose of T4 up to 75 and then

100mgs. If so, can  you get those blood results from your GP together with the

reference range for each test and post them here. I assume that you had your

Free T3 tested at that time.

I don't think, from the sound of it, as if you were given a fair

chance using synthetic combination therapy, and it could well have worked.

Luv - Sheila

Sheila I did, I have been taking both T3 and T4

the 2 month prescription he gave me was for the next course I already had been

taking it I liked the T3 I felt better on it but I didnt like each increase of

T4, he cut the T4 down to 50 and the T3 was 10mcg then the T4 went up to 75

then he wanted to increase it to 100 thats when he gave me another prescrip and

I said thanks came home and started the Armour.

Do you think I should have carried on with the T4 and T3 then?

Michele

_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

I've been wondering about this too. I have to see a NHS CFS specialist

next week and the form asks about nutrition and alternative therapies.

I don't know whether to lie or not. I don't usually lie but I feel

pushed into it.

Sorry if I'm brusque or unclear. I've only just started Armour and the

brain fog is still terrible.

>

> Hi all

>

> Just wondering for those of you who go to Dr P or who self-treat,

did you mention what

> you are doing to your GP or not?

[Guest guest]

The lesser-evil principle may apply here. On the one hand the effect

of self-treatment, if not disclosed, might confuse the

doctor/specialist in their diagnosis. On the other, if they are

prejudiced in principle against self-treating, as I think many are,

they may react badly and even refuse to proceed.

Rgds

Hans

>

> I've been wondering about this too. I have to see a NHS CFS specialist

> next week and the form asks about nutrition and alternative therapies.

> I don't know whether to lie or not ...

[Guest guest]

Hello Everyone

I am lucky to have a supportive GP but I have still chosen to go

undercover re: self treatment.

Back in 2002, when I finally worked out I could be hypo with a scary

selection of symptoms, I presented my case to a doctor who looked at

me with such pity saying that she had been testing my thyroid

function again and again with normal results. She did enable me to

see Dr Skinner and after a few months of rapid improvement (and

evidently my test results also supported my case), I was recognised

by my GP and got the medical exemption card to prove it. When Dr S

put me on T3 they again supported me up to a maxium of 60mg T3 and

100mg T4 and I even got on the repeat prescription system. I think

it helps that they are a teaching practice. The psychiatrist, who I

had been seeing about my 'depression', was VERY interested in my

case, and has been trying thyroid treatment with some of her more

serious cases who present with hypo symptoms too.

About this time last year I began to notice a downturn in my health

and asked if I could see an NHS endo - with the proviso that we could

ignore whatever he said - and my GP said nothing would be changed

without my agreement and the endo he suggested was someone who

thought 'out of the box'.

How wrong he was! He said the only thing he would consider were the

test results. I was made to feel like a... fake!

My change in symptoms were small at that time but 6 months later I

was in a worsened state, probably due to stress, and knowing my GP

could do nothing without some instruction from the endo, and being

unable to see either Dr S or Dr P, I turned to Sheila and Bob for

help and with my selection of supplements and armour I have made SOME

improvement. I have experimented on myself somewhat, and can take

T3/Armour till it is coming out of my ears with no hyper reaction -

or anything obvious, but no release from the symptoms now presenting

either. Thus I am hoping that Dr P can get me back on track and that

there is still hope.

When I was preparing for my 6 month blood test for my repeat

prescription I did cut my armour because I am terrified of what

others have reported has happened.

I have a note to say make a 'routine' appointment so obviously

nothing 'serious' showed up. Sadly with my damned memory, I keep

forgetting to ring up for the results!!!

Throughout my treatment I have been treated with sceptism and because

of this DO wonder if I made it all up!

So even with a very supportive GP I feel the need to lie and hide the

real facts from them. It is SO sad that we are made to feel this way.

In friendship, Louise

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I am wondering about this too. I am thinking after I have seen DrP

and hopefully start on the Armour, the doctor will notice I am not

collecting my scripts as often etc and will wonder what is going on.

I am concerned that if I self treat and tell the doc he will strike

me off the list and then how will I get a sick note if I am off work?

We could do with some files on this. I know there has been something

on the news about this as some cancer patients etc have to buy meds

themselves. I will try to find out some info, maybe call PALS at the

local Hospital.

Alice

" <.fairyhedgehog@...> wrote:

>

> I've been wondering about this too. I have to see a NHS CFS

specialist

> next week and the form asks about nutrition and alternative

therapies.

> I don't know whether to lie or not. I don't usually lie but I feel

> pushed into it.

>

> Sorry if I'm brusque or unclear. I've only just started Armour and

the

> brain fog is still terrible.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi all

> >

> > Just wondering for those of you who go to Dr P or who self-treat,

> did you mention what

> > you are doing to your GP or not?

>

[Guest guest]

Enkai

For what it's worth my GP practice isn't at all supportive, but I took

a deep breath and told them everything, for lots of reasons. As you

rightly say they would have picked up on the fact I wasn't collecting

my thyroxine prescriptions or my synthetic progesterone (I'm doing

Serenity now). Also, on Armour our thyroid function results will be

different.

I explained that I'd taken the steps I had (Armour, Dr P etc) because I

was determined to get better and not waste so much of their valuable

time. I did ask though if they would help me through this, through

monitoring etc. as after all we all want the same outcome (ie.me

getting better!) As a result, they asked that I go and see an endo

(which is a whole other story!), but so long as he was satisfied they

would go along with it....and that's just what has happened. A little

grudgingly granted, but they test my thyroid and I'm doing my own thing

which I think is a result!

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Pen x

[Guest guest]

Good for you Pen, I think on the whole it really does pay to be

truthful with your doctor, but make sure you can give him good sound reasons why

you felt the need to help yourself back into normal health again. Then, as you

did, ask your GP to monitor you while you go through this.

Luv - Sheila

Enkai

For what it's worth my GP practice isn't at all supportive, but I took

a deep breath and told them everything, for lots of reasons. As you

rightly say they would have picked up on the fact I wasn't collecting

my thyroxine prescriptions or my synthetic progesterone (I'm doing

Serenity now). Also, on Armour our thyroid function results will be

different.

I explained that I'd taken the steps I had (Armour, Dr P etc) because I

was determined to get better and not waste so much of their valuable

time. I did ask though if they would help me through this, through

monitoring etc. as after all we all want the same outcome (ie.me

getting better!) As a result, they asked that I go and see an endo

(which is a whole other story!), but so long as he was satisfied they

would go along with it....and that's just what has happened. A little

grudgingly granted, but they test my thyroid and I'm doing my own thing

which I think is a result!

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Pen x

[Guest guest]

Janet:

They don't! My GP told me he'd never finished a course of antibiotics -

I was shocked! No wonder there are resistant bugs about.

Best wishes,

Kat

I wonder if the medics follow their own guidlines if they get ill, I

bet they don't

> just think 'well I am a somatoform now and will have to wait til I

reach the right figure

> before I can get well,' and then go into retirement for a few years!!

>

> love janet

[Guest guest]

Hi Janet

It makes a little

more difficult with the 1 1/2 grain tablets as you have to split your dose of

Armour. It would have been better to have started with the 1 grain tablet. If

you go to our FILES and scroll down until you see a file called " How to

Use Natural Thyroid Extract " read all of that. It tells you all you need

to know about Armour and the end bit is about how you should use it. Basically,

we recommend starting by using half a grain only for 7 days (starting quarter

of a grain if you have had previous heart problems). You cut the half grain in

two with a pill cutter, or a very sharp knife and take one dose as soon as you

wake and about an hour before food, and the other half in the middle of the

afternoon. This is because Armour has the active hormone T3 in it and it is the

T3 that is the active hormone. However, unlike T4, T3 has only a short half

life and after 6 to 8 hours, the effect will start to dwindle and you might

experience what we call 'the afternoon slump' - so taking it in a split dose

keeps you topped up.

After 7 days, if no

adverse effects, you add another half grain and take it in the same way but

stay on this dose for about 3 to 4 weeks. Again, if no adverse effects, you

take another half grain and you carry on increasing your dose every 3 to 4

weeks until you do get some of the adverse effects. This is when you stop your

increases and you go back down to the dose you were taking before the dose that

made you feel these adverse effects. This shows you have reached your sweet

spot and that is the dose your body needs daily. There is often no need for any

further increases.

Adverse effects can

include a bit of dizziness, sweating, palpitations, feeling 'spaced out' and

generally yuk and it can be a little frightening if you don't understand what

is happening to you. Quite simply, this is just a reaction of your body

absorbing too much T3. Because T3 has such a short half life, this feeling

disappears after say, a couple of hours. Just sit comfortably for this time and

wait for it to pass. You don't take any more Armour for that day. Once you have

built up to the dose that makes you feel good, you may wish to try taking all

of your Armour when you go to bed. This leaves the day time free to take your

other supplements. Never take calcium or iron anywhere near to taking thyroid

hormone replacement as it interferes with absorption. Always take it at least 3

to 4 hours apart.

There really is no

way of doing a proper calculation as to how much Armour you should take to

replace your levothyroxine dose. T4 is mainly an inactive hormone which has to

convert to the active T3. Armour contains T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin, so you

are introducing other hormones your body has probably been without for quite

some time.

Remember that

natural thyroid extract was the ONLY thyroid hormone replacement for all

sufferers of hypothyroidism before levothyroxine was manufactured and used well

into the 1980's by a lot of doctors. It has been a very safe and effective

medication.

Considering you

have bought the 1 1/2 grains, it might mean that you would need to cut the

tablet into 3 portions to start with, but this isn't a problem. Don't worry if

you cannot get them into equal portions, because normally, your thyroid does

not excrete the same amount of hormone throughout the day.

Don't worry either

about your GP at the moment, first, wait and see if Armour works, and if it

does and you really do start to feel and look so much better, you can consider

what you are going to tell him at that time. Always remember it is your health

and the NHS medicine has not made you well, you are amongst many who have had

to take their health into their own hands an d who are now well again. A good

and caring doctor would appreciate that.

To reassure you

also, I have had 3 doctors telephone me and 2 doctors email me asking me to

give them information about Armour, where to buy, how to treat etc. They were

asking because they were hypothyroid and were being treated with levothyroxine

and they still had symptoms. What is sad, is that although I gave them as much

detail as I could and wished them luck, not one of them ever got back to me to

let me know if it worked - but I bet it did.

Good luck Janet.

Luv - Sheila

I don't know how I am going to cope with the GP issue either (as I know he will

not be

supportive as he tried to take me off the levothyroxine which was prescribed by

another

partner in the practice who has now gone. ) How different will the blood test

be,will it be

obvious? Do I need to have blood tests done to get the dose right, and if so

where will I

find a lab that wil do them for me if I can't face the GP. My instinct is to

not let on about

self treating as it is a bit frightening for the poor old soul, but it is my

body and I have to

live in it. I wonder if the medics follow their own guidlines if they get ill,

I bet they don't

just think 'well I am a somatoform now and will have to wait til I reach the

right figure

before I can get well,' and then go into retirement for a few years!!

_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

> I am concerned that if I self treat and tell the doc he will strike

> me off the list and then how will I get a sick note if I am off work?

That's exactly my fear,Alice. I'm not working at all now and I'm on

Incapacity and I worry that my GP will stop signing sick notes if I

don't co-operate.

The trouble is that I'm not _officially_ hypothyroid - my TSH is

currently " normal " . So my GP and the CFS specialist will see no need

for thyroid treatment.

If anyone knows a sympathetic GP in the Epsom area, please feel free

to email me.

[Guest guest]

> I am concerned that if I self treat and tell the doc he will strike

> me off the list and then how will I get a sick note if I am off work?

That's exactly my fear,Alice. I'm not working at all now and I'm on

Incapacity and I worry that my GP will stop signing sick notes if I

don't co-operate.

The trouble is that I'm not _officially_ hypothyroid - my TSH is

currently " normal " . So my GP and the CFS specialist will see no need

for thyroid treatment.

If anyone knows a sympathetic GP in the Epsom area, please feel free

to email me.

[Guest guest]

> For what it's worth my GP practice isn't at all supportive, but I took

> a deep breath and told them everything, for lots of reasons.

This is what I'd like to do once I feel better. At the moment I know

I'd just burst into tears at even the hint of a negative reaction and

I really can't face that.

[Guest guest]

For those of you

who have been diagnosed and prescribed levothyroxine only, I would approach

your doctor with the intention of having a serious discussion with him/her

regarding this and mentioning that no matter how you titrate your synthetic

hormone replacement, it simply does not work for you and that it doesn't work

for many thousands of others who are on Internet Forums. Tell him/her you felt

the need to join such thyroid forums because you needed to find out why you

were not regaining your health and heard that natural thyroid extract was the

only medication used for 60 odd years for every hypothyroid sufferer and it had

been used very safely and very effectively. Tell him/her the forum you are on

has four medically qualified doctors with years and years of thyroid expertise

and because you had done the necessary research, you decided to give yourself a

trial to see if this was the medication your body required and you found that

it was and that you are feeling so very much better on it. Tell him/her that

you will understand if they feel unable to prescribe it for you because it was

a 'grandfathered' drug and therefore never required a licence, and that you

know his/her medical ionsurance would not cover them should anything go wrong,

but you do know the MHRA has written to say that if a doctor is happy to

prescribe it, then he/she can do so. Just ask if he/she will monitor you

because you would be so much happier if he/she would do this as you value their

expertise (creep! *grin*) - flattery could get you every where. Tell him/her

that if they would like some information about how it works and why it works,

you would be happy to supply this as you really have studied this subject in

some depth.

For you - I

hope you do find a sympathetic doctor in your area soon.

Luv - Sheila

The trouble is that I'm not _officially_ hypothyroid - my TSH is

currently " normal " . So my GP and the CFS specialist will see no need

for thyroid treatment.

If anyone knows a sympathetic GP in the Epsom area, please feel free

to email me.

[Guest guest]

> For you - I hope you do find a sympathetic doctor in your area

soon.

>

> Luv - Sheila

Thanks, Sheila.

[Guest guest]

hi pen, i noticed that you are on serenity now, does it work for

you ? i have just started to use it this week on dr. p's

instructions. i am curious about others reaction to the cream. kind

regards jane

--- In thyroid treatment , " pennysometimes "

<pennysometimes@...

>