Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Posted July 27, 2006 Well, I didn't know where to even start so I'll just say you're really being lied to with the protein info. There is no basis for anything in that answer in your email. Quote
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Posted July 27, 2006 Janice wrote: > Hi Everybody, Here's a question from a book called " Living on Live > Food " . This is quoted from the book on page 157 & 158. Who wrote this book and what training did they have in clinical nutrition, cell physiology or just plain zoology? > WHAT ABOUT PROTEIN (AND CALCIUM)? > > Answer: This is by far the question I'm asked most frequently. > > Protein does not create protein in your body. Sure does. ALL protein consists of joined amino acids that the body can split and reassemble. > Amino acids create > protein in your body. Yes. And the best source of amino acids are leafy > green vegetables. According to what research? > When you eat meat, fish, or chicken, you're not getting as much > protein as you think you are. You're getting a lot more than you'd get from leaves:-) Plants including leaves, have the wrong ratious of amino acids to build bodies for humans. This is why a diet based on soy protein, skews the immune system and results in chronic diseases like diabetes, fibromylagis, syndrome X and cancer to name a minority of them. Take chicken, for example. Say there > are 20 grams of protein in a chicken breast. Once you cook it, you > destroy half the protein. Again - according to whose " research " ? It's completely untrue. ALL the protein is maintained! The raw and cooked protein is available properly analysed - for any food on the USDA database:-) So if you take for example 100g of raw sirloin, item 13954 " Beef, bottom sirloin, tri-tip roast, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 0 " fat, all grades, raw " here: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl 100g has 20.64g of protein. If you cook it, there will be a water loss of about 20% so it will weigh 80g. So now check: Item 23649 " Beef, bottom sirloin, tri-tip, separable lean only, trimmed to 0 " fat, select, cooked, roasted " here http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl 80g has 21.74 g of protein. ZERO protein is lost in cooking, the only thing lost is water so that a steak weighs more when raw by approximately 20% (depending how long you cook it and lose the juices/water). YOu can do the same with chicken or any other protein, as protien is NOT destroyed by heat:-) > Now your body has to digest and > assimilate this heavy, dense source of 10 grams of protein, that > will take up to 100 hours. In what sci-fi movie? The body prefers the protein to be a dense source like meat as that is what it is designed to digest. It uses ACID to digest it, and has a lining designed to handle the acid. Ten grams of protein is not a lot. A minimum decent steak is 80g (not even 3 ounces), 8 times that. So you are talking a small bite or so of a steak. It will be gone in an hour or less. How much do you think is getting stuck > in your body as toxic waste by the times it reaches your colon? From meat? None. From leaves, it does not get stuck in your colon - it gets stuck in your kidneys - that is the readibng your doctor gets from the lab that reads " BUN " . The N part is the nitrogen from undigested protein bits, usually plant protein as it comes in the wrong amino acid ratios to make muscles. It comes in the ratio to make plants:-) I do not know where these wild ideas originate but please look at some real science and some common sense. > How > much protein from a cooked chicken breast will you actually get? All of it. > Maybe a few grams, if you're lucky. Check the analysis database at USDA or any of the many others available. > When I speak to bodybuilders and athletes about this, they often > insist that animal protein is the best protein available. They are correct. Anyone who studies which amino acids are used for muscle can point out that the ones in muscle are used to make muscle, and the ones in plants are ideal ratios to make plants. > If it's > such a good source, why do they need so much of it? It's good food. They are trying to force their bodies to have unnatural muscle. Thei rbodies will not like it that much, and will use some of it for the energy burned in execising. But if they ate plants instead they'd soon be minus any biceps. Some of my > bodybuilding friends feel it necessary to eat large portons of meat > with each of their six daily meals! I eat meat every meal too, but no body building - just health building. Protein is used for MANY functions in the body, not just making muscle. > Many green vegetables are excellent sources of high quality > protein. No. They have microscopic amounts. Again I refer you to the actual analysis numbers in the database: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ Here you can look up any leaves you like. You will see 100g of sprouts has 3 g or proten - not 21 grams - only a seventh of beef. Spinach has even less. > A bowl of uncooked greens or sprouts may only contain a > few grams of protein, but you can digest and assimilate all of it > beause they still have all of their vitamins, minerals, and enzymes > intact. This make this protein far more useful to your body. According to what Sci fi movies? WE know better. Meat is digested by hydrochloric acid in the stomach, not vitamins or minerals or enzymes at all. This is why cats eat meat and no plants and are healthy wiht their very simplistic digestive systems designed for meat and no plants needed. In fact cats do not have the ability to digest plants. It is PLANT digestion that is so very difficult - not meat digestion - meat is easy! Plants are the ones that need enzymes, and catalysts and other complicated systems for digestion. That is why species that eat plants have VERY long intestines (and cats very short ones, they have no work to do!) - it takes all kinds of effort to digest plants, and they need lots of chemiclas to break their little cells open to get at the insides and even more to digest the complicated insides. Cows go a step further and have several stomachs and use bacteria to help them digest their plant food that is so hard to digest. So wherever you are getting your suggestions - it is completely backwards! You can't make a vegetarian diet that has all the recommended dietary protein, carbs, fatty acids, minerals and vitamins in it. Doesn't exist. You will get cold sores and worse. Namaste, Irene -- Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom. P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220. www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.) " Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. " Quote
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Posted July 27, 2006 Maddviking@... wrote: > Well, I didn't know where to even start so I'll just say you're really being > lied to with the protein info. There is no basis for anything in that answer > in your email. YOu said it so much more simply Max!!!! .....IRene -- Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom. P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220. www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.) " Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. " Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ Not being funny but I wouldn't trust anything put out by any Government. What makes this so right, other than it goes along with what you think ? Whatever anyone thinks is right, there is examples everywhere that refute it. I do appreciate that there are those on this group who are finding the type 'O' diet suits them and is helping them improve their health, but to act like every vegetarian type 'o' is unhealthy and ill is a bit extremist and paranoid as there are thousands of very healthy and happy type 'O' vegetarians out there and there are even also many who live v. long and healthy lives too. Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 How do you know that " there are thousands of very healthy and happy type 'O' vegetarians out there and there are even also many who live v. long and healthy lives too. " ? Re: What about Protein & Calcium on Raw food plan? http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ Not being funny but I wouldn't trust anything put out by any Government. What makes this so right, other than it goes along with what you think ? Whatever anyone thinks is right, there is examples everywhere that refute it. I do appreciate that there are those on this group who are finding the type 'O' diet suits them and is helping them improve their health, but to act like every vegetarian type 'o' is unhealthy and ill is a bit extremist and paranoid as there are thousands of very healthy and happy type 'O' vegetarians out there and there are even also many who live v. long and healthy lives too. Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 > How do you know ....... ** I was vegetarian, verging on vegan for 14 yrs and knew many, was a member of organisations, and on lists. I personally knew many. How do you know there aren't ? Before you mention about the fact that I joined this group and started on this diet, that doesn't mean much, as I am one person, with a unique set of health problems, just as everyone is, and there are people everywhere you go that are following all sorts of diets, but that doesn't mean they are doing a good job of it or that they know and understand how to tailor those diets to help them, especially if they have a health issue that they don't even know about yet, as I did. I am finding more and more as I go along that it is not just about diet and exercise, but it is the whole mind, body and spirit intertwined that we need to address for health and wellness. Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 In a message dated 7/28/2006 12:55:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, firesprite68@... writes: I was vegetarian, verging on vegan for 14 yrs and knew many If it's so healthy, why aren't you now? Were they all type Os? Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 In a message dated 7/28/2006 12:55:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, firesprite68@... writes: I am finding more and more as I go along that it is not just about diet and exercise, but it is the whole mind, body and spirit intertwined that we need to address for health and wellness. Have to agree with that. Why aren't you still a vegetarian? Did you get sick? Remember, your mind, body, and spirit can't get tuned up unless you're healthy. Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 > > What makes this so right, other than it goes along with what you > > think ? > > No need to be rude and personal . ** I wasn't being rude or personal, it's just a straight question. > It's the ideas you presented that have no scientific source at all!!! **I didn't present any ideas, and science isn't the answer to everything so not everything has a scientific base but that doesn't mean things are not right. How does science explain religion or spiritual experiences ? > > Whatever anyone thinks is right, there is examples everywhere that refute it. > > Apparently, judging by the fiction you sent to the list! **Don't know what fiction you are on about. > I'm sorry you were duped, but it takes almost no investigation to show it is fiction! ** ? > > I do appreciate that there are those on this group who are finding the type 'O' diet suits them and is helping them improve their health, > We've yet to find an exception when the person is 100% compliant - am I right folks? > If the diet helps 100% of people, how is that extremist and paranoid? **You only know that the diet helps those who are on this list and the D'Adamo forums, and maybe a few extra family and friends - those who don't agree wqith it will have left so that is hardly 100% is it. > If you think so, then with respect, why are you complaining? ** I wasn't complaining - I was just pointing out that some fair- mindedness needs to come into play. > YOU are on an O diet list. Was there a reason for that if your health is perfect? **I have already addressed this being brought up in the previous email. ** I am glad your daughter in law finds it good and beneficial, but again, she is one person. > Nobody is forcing you to eat according to your body's wonderful scientific design and metabolic systems - scientific because science learns from it all the time. ** I have not even said I am not following it - just stood up for some fairness on the list as it gets a bit tiring hearing the same old prejudices some trot out time after time, which, when you look around, are clearly not the case. When you say that 80% of the population are 'O's then your views on vegetarianism just don't add up. Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 wrote: >>> What makes this so right, other than it goes along with what you >>> think ? >> No need to be rude and personal . > > ** I wasn't being rude or personal, it's just a straight question. It's how I perceived it, I'm sorry that has no relevance for you. >> It's the ideas you presented that have no scientific source at > all!!! > > **I didn't present any ideas, You did. For example you presented the idea that you conceive of sprouts as providing more protein than cooked chicken! Am I knocking my head on a brick wall here??? Let me feel - ah yes, bump there. > and science isn't the answer to > everything Science is about physical things at the chemical level, (so physics and chemistry are the two subsections) such as protein, digestion and metabolism:-)) There's a lot science does not know yet that is chemistry-related or physics-related (and may never know in our lifetime) but the things we are discussing are well known to science:-) so not everything has a scientific base but that doesn't > mean things are not right. > How does science explain religion or spiritual experiences ? The same way plumbers explain brain surgery - it's not their area so they do not try. >> [irene] If the diet helps 100% of people, how is that extremist and > paranoid? > > **You only know that the diet helps those who are on this list and > the D'Adamo forums, and maybe a few extra family and friends Can YOU produce a 100% compliant person who did not benefit then? > it gets a bit tiring hearing the same > old prejudices some trot out time after time, Oh - we would not want to be prejudiced!!! By definition, a " prejudice " is a judgement BEFORE trying it for yourself. Most of us have tried it for ourselves. So to get YOUR un-prejudiced opinion, please tell us what YOU experienced after a decent amount of time on 100% compliant type O diet? Namaste, Irene (now where did I leave those head-bump bandaids.....) -- Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom. P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220. www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.) " Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. " Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 isn't the one who talked about " sprouts as providing more protein than cooked chicken! " I think that was Janice............... Re: Re: What about Protein & Calcium on Raw food plan? wrote: >>> What makes this so right, other than it goes along with what you >>> think ? >> No need to be rude and personal . > > ** I wasn't being rude or personal, it's just a straight question. It's how I perceived it, I'm sorry that has no relevance for you. >> It's the ideas you presented that have no scientific source at > all!!! > > **I didn't present any ideas, You did. For example you presented the idea that you conceive of sprouts as providing more protein than cooked chicken! Am I knocking my head on a brick wall here??? Let me feel - ah yes, bump there. > and science isn't the answer to > everything Science is about physical things at the chemical level, (so physics and chemistry are the two subsections) such as protein, digestion and metabolism:-)) There's a lot science does not know yet that is chemistry-related or physics-related (and may never know in our lifetime) but the things we are discussing are well known to science:-) so not everything has a scientific base but that doesn't > mean things are not right. > How does science explain religion or spiritual experiences ? The same way plumbers explain brain surgery - it's not their area so they do not try. >> [irene] If the diet helps 100% of people, how is that extremist and > paranoid? > > **You only know that the diet helps those who are on this list and > the D'Adamo forums, and maybe a few extra family and friends Can YOU produce a 100% compliant person who did not benefit then? > it gets a bit tiring hearing the same > old prejudices some trot out time after time, Oh - we would not want to be prejudiced!!! By definition, a " prejudice " is a judgement BEFORE trying it for yourself. Most of us have tried it for ourselves. So to get YOUR un-prejudiced opinion, please tell us what YOU experienced after a decent amount of time on 100% compliant type O diet? Namaste, Irene (now where did I leave those head-bump bandaids.....) -- Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom. P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220. www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.) " Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. " Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 Maddviking@... wrote:If you drink Drano, you'll probably have a spiritual experience and do > a lot of praying for pain medication but science would have told you not to > drink it to start with. > ROFL!!!! Where would we be on this list without your great common sense and humour!!!! That makes my day! Namaste, Irene -- Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom. P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220. www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.) " Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. " Quote
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Posted July 28, 2006 I have been reading all of the posts regarding this topic since the beginning and have been very interested in everyone's opinions and have felt the need to be quiet and stay out of the discussion until now. I just want to let you all know why and what I get from this discussion group. --- Max has said that he found this diet 8 years ago and has felt better than he did back in 1998 since following this ER4YT way of eating and he would have been dead if he followed the ADA diet by now. This is where I would like to say something. I am 50 years old and have been following the terrible eating habits of pasta, little protein, junk food, etc for many years and am now feeling terrible with my overweight and painful body. I am diabetic as well as have asthma, fibromyalgia, high blood pressure, and feel like I want to be dead!!! My new doctor has recommended this diet - way of eating and yet my insurance company insists that the ADA diet is the only way for diabetics to stay controlled. I am struggling to say the least to try to follow this ER4YT diet but HATE eating meat. I have been trying so diligently to get more beef into my diet, but feel like I would almost rather give up eating than to try to incorporate more meat into my life. I know that my old way of eating was definately the wrong way to treat my body, but I just can't stomach the thought of eating more red meat than once or twice a week. I eat mostly chiclen and turkey and have been trying to eat a few meals of fish a week, but I am really struggling. I wish there was an easy way to be able to be more compliant with this protein need that my body has since I'm an " O " , but it is sooooo very hard for me. I don't think I'm being stubborn about this, but why is my body so opposed to my eating red meat when it really needs it? I'm also reading and trying to incorporate the Inflammation diet by Dr.Perricone that Irene suggested to me several weeks ago. I am the person Max refers to in the grocery store! I look to this group for inspiration and small helps to make me more able to tolerate this way of eating. I respect all of your knowledge and look forward to someday feeling better because of suggestions that I have picked up from all you veteran " O's " . This group is lucky to have so many people that are so very smart about this way of eating for people like me! Thank you all. __________________________________________________ Quote
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Posted July 30, 2006 >> I really thought I was talking to the person who wrote that story about sprouts being better protein than Chicken! My comments then will be awful towards you. Please know I did not mean that, I really had made the mistake of confusing the source of the email I answered, and I answered in the context of the other person's perspective instead of yours! **So that makes it alright then ? it's o.k. to be awful to her then ? THIS is what I was talking about - not diets. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 343 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! Quote
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Posted July 30, 2006 firesprite68 wrote: >>> I really thought I was talking to > the person who wrote that story about sprouts being better protein than Chicken! > My comments then will be awful towards you. Please know I did not mean that, I really had made the mistake of confusing the source of the email I answered, and I answered in the context of the other person's perspective instead of yours! > > **So that makes it alright then ? > it's o.k. to be awful to her then ? Sigh!!! I was not being awful to anyone - I was being in context of what SHE said - which is awful to you, not her. It's not awful in terms of what was said but the fact I mistook YOUR views as hers. I think it is awful to have one's views misconstrued is all. Gee - is there any logic left somewhere? I'm quite prepared to call a spade a spade on diet issues, but it is never my intention to treat the writer of emails badly such as by answering while thinking of the wrong person's views. ....Irene -- Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom. P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220. www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.) " Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it. " Quote
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