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>

> Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful, I am full of

anxiety,

> feel sick, shaky and dont know how long I can stand this, why cant I

> have some relief, I just want to break down and cry, i cant cope

with

> this anymore

Hello

So sorry to hear you feel so bad again. I don't qute know what to say

but just felt I had to respond because it's so awful to be feeling how

you do. And when you feel like that it really does make you feel as if

you've had enough, I know.

Relief will come but no doubt not as quickly as you would like.

You're talking to Dr P tomorrow aren't you, so hang onto that thought.

Meanwhile I hope you find a way of coping with the anxiety and

sickness, so that it doesn't feel quite so overwhelming.

Thinking of you

x

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Thanks , I just dont know what to do, is it too much HC or too much T4 or not enough of either? I just dont know, I dont mind saying I have just sat and had a good cry, I try so hard to be well and it seems to come so easy to people around me.

I am aware of a faster pulse and heart beat and the anxiety is worse, Im stuck and long for relief, I am just hoping Dr P will know whats going on

From: marlene804667 <marlene.emmett@...>Subject: Re: Something is wrongthyroid treatment Date: Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 5:47 PM

>> Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful, I am full of anxiety, > feel sick, shaky and dont know how long I can stand this, why cant I > have some relief, I just want to break down and cry, i cant cope with > this anymoreHello So sorry to hear you feel so bad again. I don't qute know what to say but just felt I had to respond because it's so awful to be feeling how you do. And when you feel like that it really does make you feel as if you've had enough, I know. x

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I had anxiety when I had an antibody attack. Do you have hashi's maybe

you are in the process of an attack?

Venizia

> >

> > Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful, I am full of

> anxiety,

> > feel sick, shaky and dont know how long I can stand this, why cant I

> > have some relief, I just want to break down and cry, i cant cope

> with

> > this anymore

>

>

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,

Hang in there.

I could feel my heart beating for months before I was diagnosed

hypothyroid. My GP said it was anxiety, but clearly it is linked to

hypothyroidism. It hasn't fully gone away as yet though it is nowhere

near as constant as it was.

It certainly came back quite strongly when I foolishly stopped my

thyroxine for four weeks so I think it could be the lack of thyroid

hormone that is doing it to you.

I know it is mostly physiological but I think I do get worse if I am

stressed, like today for example I had a lot of pressure at work and I

started noticing it again.

Its important for us to relax. I am going to have a go on my Rio

lightmask, it really helps me relax. They are about £40 but well worth

it.

Its also vital to eat well. I follow a food plan which I found in a

book called potatoes not prozac. Its about how to stop being addicted

to sugar - there's a website for it too www.radiantrecovery.com. It

really helped me.

And all the usual, have a nice bath, read a book, watch a DVD or

something on TV or on the iPlayer, I like doing my nails to relax.

I hope you can find the strength to get through this tough little time

and I hope you feel better soon.

Jane

> Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful,

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I do have Hashis yes and have no idea if I am having an antibody attack, I have been on HC for nearly 4 weeks and restarted my thyroxine 2 weeks ago and things are worse instead of better--- On Tue, 16/9/08, venizia1948 <nelsonck@...>

I had anxiety when I had an antibody attack. Do you have hashi's maybeyou are in the process of an attack?Venizia> >> > Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful, I am full of > anxiety, > > feel sick, shaky and dont know how long I can stand this, why cant I > > have some relief, I just want to break down and cry, i cant cope > with > > this anymore> >

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I keep wondering if its too much thyroid hormone, my emotions are all over the place the today, just had a good cry, my pulse is slightly faster and I feel too anxious to enjoy anything, thats not normal is it? I am tired, anxious, worried all in one go! The three week break I had from thyroxine really didnt help matters, I can see that now and the HC hasnt made a lot of difference--- On Tue, 16/9/08, janemccormicksmith <cordeliajane@...>

, Hang in there. I could feel my heart beating for months before I was diagnosedhypothyroid. My GP said it was anxiety, but clearly it is linked tohypothyroidism. It hasn't fully gone away as yet though it is nowherenear as constant as it was. It certainly came back quite strongly when I foolishly stopped mythyroxine for four weeks so I think it could be the lack of thyroidhormone that is doing it to you.I know it is mostly physiological but I think I do get worse if I amstressed, like today for example I had a lot of pressure at work and Istarted noticing it again.Its important for us to relax. I am going to have a go on my Riolightmask, it really helps me relax. They are about £40 but well worthit. Its also vital to eat well. I follow a food plan which I found in abook called potatoes not prozac. Its about how to stop being addictedto sugar - there's

a website for it too www.radiantrecovery .com. Itreally helped me.And all the usual, have a nice bath, read a book, watch a DVD orsomething on TV or on the iPlayer, I like doing my nails to relax.I hope you can find the strength to get through this tough little timeand I hope you feel better soon.Jane> Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful,

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It sounds like adrenal stress to me , has all along but I did

not like to say too much.

Why not try stress-dosing with your h/c right now? Take 5 mg and wait

half an hour, if the nausea, anxiety and shakiness don't go, then

take another 5 mg and wait a half an hour.

This should do it. Try it and see. You have nothing to lose.

Mo

>

> Thanks , I just dont know what to do, is it too much HC or

too much T4 or not enough of either? I just dont know, I dont mind

saying I have just sat and had a good cry, I try so hard to be well

and it seems to come so easy to people around me.

> I am aware of a faster pulse and heart beat and the anxiety is

worse, Im stuck and long for relief, I am just hoping Dr P will know

whats going on

>

>

>

>

>

> From: marlene804667 <marlene.emmett@...>

> Subject: Re: Something is wrong

> thyroid treatment

> Date: Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 5:47 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful, I am full of

> anxiety,

> > feel sick, shaky and dont know how long I can stand this, why

cant I

> > have some relief, I just want to break down and cry, i cant cope

> with

> > this anymore

>

> Hello

>

> So sorry to hear you feel so bad again. I don't qute know what to

say

> but just felt I had to respond because it's so awful to be feeling

how

> you do. And when you feel like that it really does make you feel as

if

> you've had enough, I know.

>

>

>

> x

>

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Do you think by going back on the thyroxine has stressed the adrenals even more then?

I take 10mcg in the morning and then another 5 at dinner and another 5 at teatime but too be honest dont feel any great effect from it> > From: marlene804667

<marlene.emmett@ ...>> Subject: [thyroidpatientadvo cacy] Re: Something is wrong> thyroidpatientadvoc acygroups (DOT) com> Date: Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 5:47 PM> > > > > > > > >> > Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful, I am full of > anxiety, > > feel sick, shaky and dont know how long I can stand this, why cant I > > have some relief, I just want to break down and cry, i cant cope > with > > this anymore> > Hello > > So sorry to hear you feel so bad again. I don't qute know what to say > but just felt I had to respond because it's so awful to be feeling

how > you do. And when you feel like that it really does make you feel as if > you've had enough, I know.> > > > x>

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Hi ,

I hope you feel better soon and can get some good advice from Dr. P, I

am seeing him next month. I am Hypothyroid and my T4 has been increased

twice recently now I am on 125mcg daily and I have not been feeling

good even though my blood tests were normal. I don't know if it is too

much t4 with me too.

Over the past week I have just broken down in tears a few times. For

example I ended up feeling dizzy at my last Hygienist appointment and

then started crying. Then I went home had to call work to say I was not

coming in and broke down into tears, uncontrolable.

Also with regards to anxiety, looking back I have been getting really

anxious for example on the way to work, breathing becoming shallow,

panicking looking in my bag thinking I had forgot my keys (thankfully

normally they were in there) Getting really anxious when getting ready

to go to work or meet someone thinking will I, can I get there in time.

To relax I like to have a hot bath with about 7 drops of essential oil

of Lavender if you like that (some people do not like the smell)along

with a handful of seasalt, light some candles on a plate on the window

sill. Doing this has kept me going over the past months.

Take care hold on in there it sounds like you are on the right track

and keep us posted.

Alice

wrote:

>

> Thanks , I just dont know what to do, is it too much HC or too

much T4 or not enough of either? I just dont know, I dont mind saying I

have just sat and had a good cry, I try so hard to be well and it seems

to come so easy to people around me.

> I am aware of a faster pulse and heart beat and the anxiety is worse,

Im stuck and long for relief, I am just hoping Dr P will know whats

going on

>

>

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Thanks Alice, have you considered your adrenals? Maybe they are struggling like mine were with each T4 increase? I used to be on 150mcg of T4 before I started the HC, I am now only on 75mcg and 20mg of HC, I am now stuck because not sure if I need more or less of one and more of the other but am hoping Dr P will now>> Thanks , I just dont know what to do, is it too much HC or too much T4 or not enough of either? I just dont know, I dont mind saying I have just sat and had a good cry, I try so hard to be well and it seems to come so easy to people around me.> I am aware of a faster pulse and heart beat and the anxiety is worse, Im stuck and long for relief, I am just hoping Dr P will know whats going on> >

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To find out you should have your doctor do a TPO and TgAB tests. IF

they are increasing from your last test, they say you should take more

thyroid meds because less will just feed the attack. However, when

one is taking HC, I do not know if that is the thing to do. Maybe

someone with more knowledge will be able to answer.

Venizia

> > >

> > > Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful, I am full of

> > anxiety,

> > > feel sick, shaky and dont know how long I can stand this, why

cant I

> > > have some relief, I just want to break down and cry, i cant cope

> > with

> > > this anymore

> >

> >

>

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Hi ,

Tell me if this rings a bell; too much nutri-adrenals may have set

off your nor-adrenalin output which certainly will cause anxiety,

since it's the 'flight' hormone of the 'fight or flight' pair.

A good long walk might help if this is possible, but not around

sunset, since I believe this is one of the triggers for acute anxiety

( at least that's what my DW used to experience when she was on the

long road to recovery ).

A quite specific association with sunset, would imply melatonin can

do it.......

You should, in theory, be able to wake up to bright daylight,

preferably blue sky, bright light to re-set your body clock to

apparent local time.

The two triggers, sunrise and sunset, then keep your circadian rhythm

in synchrony with the day and night, as long as you don't keep

snacking though the night, confusing one of the other triggers for

circadian rhythm.

I'm guessing here a bit, but maybe also, low folate status can also

play havoc with the circadian rhythm.

......and I wonder if aspects of pernicious anemia also interact in

this 'soup' of hormones and factors that influence enzymes and other

such proteins.

In my DW's case, she was started on both fludrocortisone and

hydrocortisone after precipitate stopping of L-thyroxine.

When she had 'gone overboard' on L-thyroxine at 150 micrograms/day,

it was a blue light job, of the other kind.

It's odd that these two instances of blue light being relevant to the

functioning of the brain/heart/thyroid/pineal gland.....the eyes also

have specialised blue light sensors, nothing to do with vision as

such, but connected to the pineal gland, where melatonin is produced..

'Dimming' of light and intensifying of red colour in the evening sky

is the night time trigger for melatonin! eh?

Actually, that's a dimming of the blue colour; so, likely the same

blue colour receptors are 'active' at both ends of the day, to cause

a melatonin 'spike' for each type of event, awakening and sleep.

I'll look up why the low folate status might have such a profound

effect on the setting (or unsetting) of the 'clock'....

best wishes

Bob

>

> Thanks Alice, have you considered your adrenals? Maybe they are

struggling like mine were with each T4 increase? I used to be on

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Hi Venizia,

Selenium is supposed to reduce an antibody attack.

best wishes

Bob

> To find out you should have your doctor do a TPO and TgAB tests. IF

> they are increasing from your last test, they say you should take more

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Yes. Thyroid 'uses up' cortisol so, as I understand it, when we make

thyroid raises our cortisol level often drops as often evidenced by a

dxrop in basal temp soon after the raise.

Your cortisol was very low in your ASI and my guess is you are not on

enough just yet which leaves you with a combo of reasons why your

adrenals are screaming i.e.

low cortisol even with supplementation with current dose h.c

plus

cortisol gone down even lower with thyroid raises.

PLUS of course the stress and strain of all of this on a daily basis.

The h/c is doing its job I reckon, you just need more and you need to

stress-dose for your current difficulties.

What you are describing are classic signs of low cortisol, the signs

that indicate stress-dosing is required - anxiety, nausea, inner

shaking.

I am pretty sure your daily average temps will reflect this.

Mo

>

> Do you think by going back on the thyroxine has stressed the

adrenals even more then?

> I take 10mcg in the morning and then another 5 at dinner and

another 5 at teatime but too be honest dont feel any great effect

from it

>

>

>

>

> >

> > From: marlene804667 <marlene.emmett@ ...>

> > Subject: [thyroidpatientadvo cacy] Re: Something is wrong

> > thyroidpatientadvoc acygroups (DOT) com

> > Date: Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 5:47 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful, I am full of

> > anxiety,

> > > feel sick, shaky and dont know how long I can stand this, why

> cant I

> > > have some relief, I just want to break down and cry, i cant

cope

> > with

> > > this anymore

> >

> > Hello

> >

> > So sorry to hear you feel so bad again. I don't qute know what to

> say

> > but just felt I had to respond because it's so awful to be

feeling

> how

> > you do. And when you feel like that it really does make you feel

as

> if

> > you've had enough, I know.

> >

> >

> >

> > x

> >

>

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Adrenal stress and too much thyroid has a similar effect which

makes it confusing.

Your temps will give you the answer to this.

Mo

>

> I keep wondering if its too much thyroid hormone, my emotions are

all over the place the today, just had a good cry, my pulse is

slightly faster and I feel too anxious to enjoy anything, thats not

normal is it? I am tired, anxious, worried all in one go! The three

week break I had from thyroxine really didnt help matters, I can see

that now and the HC hasnt made a lot of difference

>

>

>

> --- On Tue, 16/9/08, janemccormicksmith <cordeliajane@...>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ,

>

> Hang in there.

>

> I could feel my heart beating for months before I was diagnosed

> hypothyroid. My GP said it was anxiety, but clearly it is linked to

> hypothyroidism. It hasn't fully gone away as yet though it is

nowhere

> near as constant as it was.

>

> It certainly came back quite strongly when I foolishly stopped my

> thyroxine for four weeks so I think it could be the lack of thyroid

> hormone that is doing it to you.

>

> I know it is mostly physiological but I think I do get worse if I am

> stressed, like today for example I had a lot of pressure at work

and I

> started noticing it again.

>

> Its important for us to relax. I am going to have a go on my Rio

> lightmask, it really helps me relax. They are about £40 but well

worth

> it.

>

> Its also vital to eat well. I follow a food plan which I found in a

> book called potatoes not prozac. Its about how to stop being

addicted

> to sugar - there's a website for it too www.radiantrecovery .com. It

> really helped me.

>

> And all the usual, have a nice bath, read a book, watch a DVD or

> something on TV or on the iPlayer, I like doing my nails to relax.

>

> I hope you can find the strength to get through this tough little

time

> and I hope you feel better soon.

>

> Jane

>

> > Something is dreadfully wrong, I feel so awful,

>

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Hi Bob

I have restarted the nutri adrenal after stopping when I started HC, only take 2 a day but might stop again and see if that helps, after last nights experience I will try anything right now--- On Tue, 16/9/08, bob.m9uk <Bob.m9uk@...>

Hi ,Tell me if this rings a bell; too much nutri-adrenals may have set off your nor-adrenalin output which certainly will cause anxiety, since it's the 'flight' hormone of the 'fight or flight' pair.A good long walk might help if this is possible, but not around sunset, since I believe this is one of the triggers for acute anxiety ( at least that's what my DW used to experience when she was on the long road to recovery ). A quite specific association with sunset, would imply melatonin can do it.......You should, in theory, be able to wake up to bright daylight, preferably blue sky, bright light to re-set your body clock to apparent local time.The two triggers, sunrise and sunset, then keep your circadian rhythm in synchrony with the day and night, as long as you don't keep snacking though the night, confusing one of the other triggers for circadian

rhythm.I'm guessing here a bit, but maybe also, low folate status can also play havoc with the circadian rhythm.....best wishesBob>> Thanks Alice, have you considered your adrenals? Maybe they are struggling like mine were with each T4 increase? I used to be on

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Hi Alice

I would get the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile done to see where your cortisol and DHEA are at four specific times during the day. I have attached their list of tests they do and the prices they charge. Your problem could be that you have low adrenal reserve and you are not absorbing the thyroid hormone as you should be. Did you do the adrenal questionnaire that is in our FILES on this forum website?

Luv - Sheila

Also with regards to anxiety, looking back I have been getting really anxious for example on the way to work, breathing becoming shallow, panicking looking in my bag thinking I had forgot my keys (thankfully normally they were in there) Getting really anxious when getting ready to go to work or meet someone thinking will I, can I get there in time.

..

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Hi

Your adrenals could be more stressed than you realise - and perhaps even more stressed than they were before you started HC. This could be because you are becoming more and more stressed on a daily basis because you are worrying terribly as to whether you are needing HC or whether you are taking too much or taking too little and even whether the HC is working - or worrying whether you should or should not have started your L-thyroxine again, whether you are taking too much or taking too little - and then you are worrying about whether you will be OK for your trip to America - and then getting even more stressed because you don't know what to do about it all. These extra stresses most definitely will be a causing a huge extra burden for your adrenals - and I am not really sure how to help you to calm your thoughts.

I hope that after you have spoken to Dr P today that he will be able to reassure you and that you will really put your trust in his recommendations.

Luv - Sheila

Thanks Alice, have you considered your adrenals? Maybe they are struggling like mine were with each T4 increase? I used to be on 150mcg of T4 before I started the HC, I am now only on 75mcg and 20mg of HC, I am now stuck because not sure if I need more or less of one and more of the other but am hoping Dr P will now

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You are probably right Sheila, its like a vicious circle right now and doing me no good what so ever, I just wish things would settle down a bit, yesterday I felt sick all day and was actually boaking a lot of the time, today no sick feelings as yet, but my eyes hurt and my head too, I work in a special school and we have to cope with bugs and infections on a daily basis, I will go in today but may take the rest of the week on the sick, but thats not me so I might not! I need to put myself first and I dont, some people are constantly off sick but thats not in my nature, I am too loyal when it comes to me job!!

I

From: sheilaturner <sheilaturner@...>Subject: Re: Re: Something is wrongthyroid treatment Date: Wednesday, 17 September, 2008, 8:59 AM

 Hi

Your adrenals could be more stressed than you realise - and perhaps even more stressed than they were before you started HC. This could be because you are becoming more and more stressed on a daily basis because you are worrying terribly as to whether you are needing HC or whether you are taking too much or taking too little and even whether the HC is working - or worrying whether you should or should not have started your L-thyroxine again, whether you are taking too much or taking too little - and then you are worrying about whether you will be OK for your trip to America - and then getting even more stressed because you don't know what to do about it all. These extra stresses most definitely will be a causing a huge extra burden for your adrenals - and I am not really sure how to help you to calm your thoughts.

I hope that after you have spoken to Dr P today that he will be able to reassure you and that you will really put your trust in his recommendations.

Luv - Sheila

Thanks Alice, have you considered your adrenals? Maybe they are struggling like mine were with each T4 increase? I used to be on 150mcg of T4 before I started the HC, I am now only on 75mcg and 20mg of HC, I am now stuck because not sure if I need more or less of one and more of the other but am hoping Dr P will now

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I agree with Mo 100%. Talk to Dr P today about stress dosing .

Luv - Sheila

PLUS of course the stress and strain of all of this on a daily basis.The h/c is doing its job I reckon, you just need more and you need to stress-dose for your current difficulties.What you are describing are classic signs of low cortisol, the signs that indicate stress-dosing is required - anxiety, nausea, inner shaking.I am pretty sure your daily average temps will reflect this.Mo

..

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>>>> some people are constantly off sick but thats not in my nature, I am too loyal when it comes to me job!!<<<<

I should imagine that is one of the reasons your adrenals get stressed out.

Lilian

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Hi

The impression I get from my DW's experience is that the learning

curve is quite steep.

Each step has to be thoroughly understood to make progress.

Stopping the Nutri-adrenal will tell you if that was the trigger.

Hydrocortisone replaces the 'extra production' that the adrenals

should make when they're working properly....so you need to 'feel'

your way forward.

A doctor won't be able to say 'exactly' when and how much

hydrocortisone you need on a daily basis ...only an estimate and

the 'fine tuning' is what you have to do for yourself.

The 'stress' times are what you need to manage on your 'own

assessment'....and supplement accordingly....maybe 50% more for a

short time ~ a matter of hours ~ anticipating the likely stressors is

helpful, so as to prepare for them.

By using hydrocortisone in sufficient amounts and at the right time

you can avoid the panics caused by too low levels. I think the GI

system will trigger back along the vagal nerve, causing the

apparent 'panic' that sets off the heart. We had to call out our doc

a couple of times during this learning period for what became a

manageable experience.

Activating micturition or bowel action can do this when the vagus is

sensitive (sensitised)....it's as though the entire GI system goes

into 'overdrive' and can't control the usual GI 'motor complexes'

that work in the background normally (without you noticing them).

You might approximate this with a 'stomach churning' experience (so-

say).

best wishes

Bob

>

> Hi Bob

> I have restarted the nutri adrenal after stopping when I started

HC, only take 2 a day but might stop again and see if that helps,

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Hi ,

Thank you for your reply and I hope you are feeling better. Yes I have

considered my Adrenals and will probably wait to consult Dr P next

month. I have had a few traumatic experiences over the past few years

and this think this could have had a knock on effect on my Adrenals.

The GP who I have just seen is neither use, nor ornament. I shall post

separately about this!

The palpitations etc have come on since the increase in dose of T4.

Take care, Alice

sarah wrote:

>

> Thanks Alice, have you considered your adrenals? Maybe they are

struggling like mine were with each T4 increase?

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I think life events seem to have a knock on effect with the adrenals and we maybe dont notice the effects until yrs later. I have been through a divorce, depression and moved home nearly 2 yrs ago, all these I guess have resulted in my adrenals wearing down and it wasnt until I became hypo that this eventaully came to light. I now have no reason to worry and stress but I still do, I am battling with finding the right balance of HC and thyroxine, I do believe thyroxine works for me but my low cortisol was stopping that working properly. I will never take my health for granted again

>> Thanks Alice, have you considered your adrenals? Maybe they are struggling like mine were with each T4 increase?

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Remember to do the temps as these show what is happening inside your

body. say the temps are 36, 36.4, 36.8 at the 3 readings then this

shows the adrenals are struggling.

steady temps = 36, 36.2, 36.2. they are all within 0.3 of each other

and show the adrenals are happy. low temps = poor thyroid performance.

my temps are usually 36.4. they are nice and stable now, but were

ranging from 35.8 (morn) to 36.6 (afternoon).

so all i need to do is reintroduce 1/2 grain armour and i hope my

temps climb up to 36.6 and higher. i will be doing this eventually.

getting to this point of knowledge has been hard work for me and i

think you are on the same path. eventually you will know what balance

of HC and thyroid you will need. it takes time. i started on the

thyroid in april, but the hc only 4 weeks ago. it has only been in

the last 10 days that i have achieved a stable temp, by cutting out

all armour and going up to 15mg HC. since april i have had long

periods of being well, but it was taken away from me and also got me

down. i really think i have finally cracked what happens with my body.

so i am sure you will too!!! again it is a matter of time

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