Guest guest Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 In all likelyhood the increase in heart rate is due to the fact that your baroreceptor system has not rset its self and is still sending out the signal to the heart that " hey the blood pressure has fallen and you need to pump faster to try to get it back up to where it has been running for a long time " . This normal reflex should dampen out with time. It is likely that you can decrese some of your other drugs as the spiro is kicking in. Were you on BB before as they will slow heart rate but Labetalol may incrase it. Aldactone can be taken all at once it has a very long 1/2 life. The only reason I split it is if 400 mg a day are needed. It appears that some may need to take Inspra twice a day however. Did Inspra also rapidly bring the BP down? If so the rapid heart rate may be to the same issue. Read Guyton's book about the barorecptor role in the short term regulation of BP-might take the chapter to your Dr. as well. In a message dated 4/22/2004 6:50:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sheltonlayne@... writes: > > Subj: Pulse rates > Date: 4/22/2004 6:50:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From: sheltonlayne@... > hyperaldosteronism > Reply- hyperaldosteronism > Sent from the Internet (Details) > > > > > > Hi Everyone > > I have been on Spiro for the second time, for about two weeks now, after quitting Inspra. Everything is better. I take 100 mg twice daily of Labetalol, 40 mg once a day of Lisinopril and 50 mg twice day of Spiro. My BP is running 115/67 right now and it's a couple hours before my night dose. The better my BP the higher my pulse. I am running 100 right now. I have always had 58 to 64 almost forever and almost under all conditions. If I exercise I go up but it used to come down rapidily. It has been high ever since my BP went down, was about 85/95 on Inspra (for 2 weeks). My K was good for the first time in years even without K supplements, it was 4.6 Monday. > > My question thoughts: > > Is my increased Pulse anything to worry about? A warning sign? > > Does the better performance on K have an effect on Pulse? > > What beginning symptoms of high K should I be watching for? > > Would I be better taking 25 mg of Spiro 4 times a day? > > Thanx in advance, Randy > > PS My heart goes out to you guys, I can't even imagine > having Helen's problems. Bless you all. May your pressure be low! CE Grim MD Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine Professor of Epidemiology Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertenision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 In all likelyhood the increase in heart rate is due to the fact that your baroreceptor system has not rset its self and is still sending out the signal to the heart that " hey the blood pressure has fallen and you need to pump faster to try to get it back up to where it has been running for a long time " . This normal reflex should dampen out with time. It is likely that you can decrese some of your other drugs as the spiro is kicking in. Were you on BB before as they will slow heart rate but Labetalol may incrase it. Aldactone can be taken all at once it has a very long 1/2 life. The only reason I split it is if 400 mg a day are needed. It appears that some may need to take Inspra twice a day however. Did Inspra also rapidly bring the BP down? If so the rapid heart rate may be to the same issue. Read Guyton's book about the barorecptor role in the short term regulation of BP-might take the chapter to your Dr. as well. In a message dated 4/22/2004 6:50:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sheltonlayne@... writes: > > Subj: Pulse rates > Date: 4/22/2004 6:50:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From: sheltonlayne@... > hyperaldosteronism > Reply- hyperaldosteronism > Sent from the Internet (Details) > > > > > > Hi Everyone > > I have been on Spiro for the second time, for about two weeks now, after quitting Inspra. Everything is better. I take 100 mg twice daily of Labetalol, 40 mg once a day of Lisinopril and 50 mg twice day of Spiro. My BP is running 115/67 right now and it's a couple hours before my night dose. The better my BP the higher my pulse. I am running 100 right now. I have always had 58 to 64 almost forever and almost under all conditions. If I exercise I go up but it used to come down rapidily. It has been high ever since my BP went down, was about 85/95 on Inspra (for 2 weeks). My K was good for the first time in years even without K supplements, it was 4.6 Monday. > > My question thoughts: > > Is my increased Pulse anything to worry about? A warning sign? > > Does the better performance on K have an effect on Pulse? > > What beginning symptoms of high K should I be watching for? > > Would I be better taking 25 mg of Spiro 4 times a day? > > Thanx in advance, Randy > > PS My heart goes out to you guys, I can't even imagine > having Helen's problems. Bless you all. May your pressure be low! CE Grim MD Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine Professor of Epidemiology Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertenision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Thank you Dr. Grim for your prompt reply. I will repeat your followup questions and then reply. Question: " It is likely that you can decrease some of your drugs as the spiro is kicking in. Were you on Beta Blocker before as they will slow heart rate but Labetalol may increase it. " Answer: I have been on BBs for years, Labetalol specifically for about 2 years. Our plan, Dr. Solbrig and I, is to reduce, probably in half, the Labetalol in the next couple of weeks. We have already eliminated 25 mg of HCTZ. Lastly reduce the ACE (Lisinopril). From several of the postings I have read many of the people take Spiro with small amounts of other meds, like 5mg of Lisinopril and 5mg of Diovan (the Renin side enzyme) or similar meds for " kidney protection " . I'm not sure I understand " kidney protection " , my thinking has been to get down to taking Spiro and nothing but Spiro eventually. Do I need to re-think that strategy? Question: " Did Inspra also rapidly bring down the BP? " Answer: No the exact opposite, even when increasing from 25mg to 50mg each dosage increase raised my BP. Thanx for the info on Guyton's book, I will get the chapter and learn about baroreceptors. Thanx in advance, you have blessed me and comforted me, Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 I agree that tapering the other meds is reasonable as you keep a close eye on your BP. In a message dated 4/23/2004 12:20:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sheltonlayne@... writes: > From several of the postings I have read many of the people take Spiro with small amounts of other meds, like 5mg of Lisinopril and 5mg of Diovan (the Renin side enzyme) or similar meds for " kidney protection " . I'm not sure I understand " kidney protection " , my thinking has been to get down to taking Spiro and nothing but Spiro eventually. Do I need to re-think that strategy? If Spiro controls BP to goal that is all you need. Unless you also have diabetes -which BTW may go away with spir as K is corrected. > > Question: " Did Inspra also rapidly bring down the BP? " Answer: No the exact opposite, even when increasing from 25mg > to 50mg each dosage increase raised my BP. My suspecion is that you were not on enough Inspra and it may need to be taken 2 x a day. May your pressure be low! CE Grim MD Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine Professor of Epidemiology Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertenision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 You might go to the inspra site, www.inspra.com. Inspra does not totally cut in for 2 weeks, with a maximum response in 4. Dose response is linear to 100 mg, at which it plataus. Half life is 6 hours, which means that it should be taken twice a day at the maximum dose. In the first month inspra lowered my bp to 125/85. At the end of the second month it is runing 118/80. I was started on 50 mg, because this was the same amount as the Spiro I was taking. I also take 5 mg of accupril. Pain from glycomnesia ended after about a month. Brest enlargement was thought to be perminent, steroid abusers develope brests that do not recede when the steroid is discontinued. However, by the second month, mine receded to about normal. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 Hi Wayne, Thanx for your story on Inspra. I am assuming you were on Spiro before trying Inspra because of your side effects. How long were you on Spiro and what dosage to get the side effects? The side effects of Spiro really concern me, even though I am getting great results in all other ways. When I went on Inspra it was just cold turkey from Spiro to Inspra. Dr. Grim thinks I wasn't taking enough, I probably wasn't. My thought is, could I take more of course and how much, and secondly could I take Spiro at the same time and taper it off as the Inspra takes a month to reach maximum effectiveness. It seems my experience was like taking nothing and in 10-12 days my symptoms became unbearable again. My Dr. and I didn't realize that Inspra was so slow to take effect. This could totally explain my bad experience with Inspra. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Bless you, Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 In a message dated 4/25/2004 11:06:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sheltonlayne@... writes: > My Dr. and I didn't realize that Inspra was so slow to take effect. This could totally explain my bad experience with > Inspra. Not the slowness but more likely the dose and some will need it 2 x a day depending on how fast the metabolize it. May your pressure be low! CE Grim MD Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine Professor of Epidemiology Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertenision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 When I was diagnosed with hyperaldostronism, my endocrinologist put me on Norvasc, Amiloride, and Accupril. Many doctors think a patient is more likely to stay on a regime if there are low side effects. Spiro is known to cause gynecomastia in men and menstrual disturbances in women. This is because spiro blocks all mineralcorticoids, not just aldosterone. After 5 years on the above I was diagonsed with prostate cancer, and went in for radiation therapy. After 4 days, I would have sever bowel inflamation and have to stop. In reading, I found that aldosterone is part of a chemical cascade in tissue inflamation. In desperation, I started taking spiro. It reduced part of the pain associated with diarrhea, but not the inflammation itself. A series on the effect aldosterone and inflammation on Medscape discussed that spiro also suppresses cortisol, thereby agrivating inflammation-eperlerenone does not. Again, since epelerenone only suppressed aldosterone. After a year on spiro I developed enlarged breasts and pain that varied from a dull soreness, to a sharp hurt. I was taking 50mg, and it worked great for blood pressure. However, a year after starting rad therapy, and I still had bowel inflamation, with bleeding. I went on Inspra the begining of the year, 50 mg, and the inflammation stopped in a week. Bleeding occurs about once a month. Blood pressure is good with about 5mg of accupril added (1/4th of the dose before starting spiro, on spiro only needed accupril about once a week.) As you might expect the quality of my life is now great, and so I am very satisfied with Inspra. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 My guess is that you do not need the pril if you only take it once a week. Are you DASHing. May your pressure be low! CE Grim MD Clinical Professor of Internal Medicine Professor of Epidemiology Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics and Hypertenision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 During radiation my red and white cell counts were acceptable for the treatment. Pain was the problem. Had to stop treatment several times. 6 weeks of treatment became 3 months. On spiro I did not need the accupril, but on Inspra I need about 5 mg. of accupril to keep in the target range 120/80, don't know why. I don't follow any particular diet, but my background is italian-american, which means pasta, tomatos, and lots of olive oil. My wife cooks mediteranian, with lots of fresh fruits and vegs. I avoid salt. Generally, low in red meats, with some chicken and fish and pork. Like my dad, have been prone to kidney stones all my life. Take allopurinol to avoid uric acid stones. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Wayne what kind of pains in the stomic was you getting on spero and was your red and white blood counts off a little? Thanks Mark Re: Pulse rates When I was diagnosed with hyperaldostronism, my endocrinologist put me on Norvasc, Amiloride, and Accupril. Many doctors think a patient is more likely to stay on a regime if there are low side effects. Spiro is known to cause gynecomastia in men and menstrual disturbances in women. This is because spiro blocks all mineralcorticoids, not just aldosterone. After 5 years on the above I was diagonsed with prostate cancer, and went in for radiation therapy. After 4 days, I would have sever bowel inflamation and have to stop. In reading, I found that aldosterone is part of a chemical cascade in tissue inflamation. In desperation, I started taking spiro. It reduced part of the pain associated with diarrhea, but not the inflammation itself. A series on the effect aldosterone and inflammation on Medscape discussed that spiro also suppresses cortisol, thereby agrivating inflammation-eperlerenone does not. Again, since epelerenone only suppressed aldosterone. After a year on spiro I developed enlarged breasts and pain that varied from a dull soreness, to a sharp hurt. I was taking 50mg, and it worked great for blood pressure. However, a year after starting rad therapy, and I still had bowel inflamation, with bleeding. I went on Inspra the begining of the year, 50 mg, and the inflammation stopped in a week. Bleeding occurs about once a month. Blood pressure is good with about 5mg of accupril added (1/4th of the dose before starting spiro, on spiro only needed accupril about once a week.) As you might expect the quality of my life is now great, and so I am very satisfied with Inspra. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Hi Caz, I am 53 and lead a very active lifestyle mainly, my pulse is 60 bpm resting and even after exertion never goes above 70 bpm. I know this is low though. Lynne > My resting pulse rate seems to be normal (approx 89 bpm) > But is it normal for it to go crazy just by getting up, or only on " Slight exertion " (thumping head, sweaty, ligtheadedness) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 I dont think a resting pulse of 89 is normal, I may be wrong but mine used to be around the 60 mark but since taking thyroid meds its now around 74-78 when resting Hi Caz,I am 53 and lead a very active lifestyle mainly, my pulse is 60 bpm resting and even after exertion never goes above 70 bpm. I know this is low though.Lynne> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Hiya everyone, I`m 38 and not on any thyroid medication, i thought 89bpm was normal? Caz x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 ''resting human heart rate is about 70 bpm for adult males and 75 bpm for adult females. Heart rate varies significantly between individuals'' Source Wiki They say it also depends on fitness and genetics. In other words they cannot be sure what is 'normal' but these are obviously the most common average heart rates in healthy humans. lotsa luv Dawnx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 At least there is something about me thats normal then cos Im spot on with this! lol ''resting human heart rate is about 70 bpm for adult males and 75 bpm for adult females. Heart rate varies significantly between individuals' 'lotsa luvDawnx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Good evening people, My understanding is that 60-80 range is considered 'normal', however the average is thought to be 70-72. I too have a resting rate of 60, which I believe I have become so accustomed to over the years, when I tried Armour, one of the things I found difficult to tolerate was the increase in resting pulse of 72. Made me feel 'wired'! Hope you're all doing ok. I'm off to see the thyoid surgeon next Monday, can feel the fear building up! Will keep you posted, and no doubt be asking for even more advice. Bye for now, x > > Hiya everyone, > > I`m 38 and not on any thyroid medication, i thought 89bpm was normal? > > Caz x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Hi Caz; I'm 54 and my pulse rate hovers between 85 to 100. It is quite normal for me. Regards Jane > > > Hiya everyone, > > I`m 38 and not on any thyroid medication, i thought 89bpm was normal? > > Caz x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Good luck , we will be thinking of you. luv - Sheila Hope you're all doing ok. I'm off to see the thyoid surgeon next Monday, can feel the fear building up! Will keep you posted, and no doubt be asking for even more advice. Bye for now, x > > Hiya everyone, > > I`m 38 and not on any thyroid medication, i thought 89bpm was normal? > > Caz x > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.54/2055 - Release Date: 04/13/09 05:51:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 The great professional cyclist Indurain reportedly had a resting pulse rate of less than 30! Hans .... ''resting human heart rate is about 70 bpm for adult males and 75 bpm for adult females. Heart rate varies significantly between individuals' ' lotsa luv Dawnx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Hi Caz and all, I've got - what I perceive as - a high resting pulse of between 80 and 100, and it is puzzling me. This high pulse rate started about 15 years ago, when for the span of 1 year or so I became (I gather) hyPERthyroid.... before swinging the other way and becoming hyPOthyroid - only I did not realize either at the time. I remember distinctly when all this started. I was lying awake in the early hours every morning and my heart felt like it was jumping out of my chest for an hour or so. No pain, no arrhythmia ... just a fast, very strong, heartbeat. I've had a fast pulse ever since. Thyroxine and now Armour did not change a thing (neither increasing nor slowing down). It is the only one of my (50-odd) symptoms that does not fit the hypothyroid chart. When (if) I physically exert myself, my pulse rate goes up immediately - sometimes up to 150, which is a bit frightening .... consequently, although I am active, I have given up doing anything strenuous .... which is possible counter productive - use it or lose it I found an interesting article on the net. No idea if it's credible, but perhaps our 'chemical' guys could have a look at it ? http://www.ithyroid.com/ca_and_mg.htm If there is some credit to this claim, then in my case I need more magnesium.... I did ask my GP to include a magnesium check with my last blood test, but guess what .... the lab technicians in their wisdom have declined to do it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I have heard reports on other lists recently about potassium bringing down a high pulse. Also I wonder if there is any possibility of food sensitivity. It brought my pulse up for a couple of years. GP insisted I was hyper and put me on betablockers. Turns out I was reacting to various foods. The Pulse Test in the files is very useful is you think this is a possibility. Mo > > Hi Caz and all, I've got - what I perceive as - a high resting pulse > of between 80 and 100, and it is puzzling me. This high pulse rate > started about 15 years ago, when for the span of 1 year or so I became > (I gather) hyPERthyroid.... before swinging the other way and becoming > hyPOthyroid - only I did not realize either at the time. I remember > distinctly when all this started. [Edit Abbrev Mod] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 ***> I have heard reports on other lists recently about potassium bringing down a high pulse.> Also I wonder if there is any possibility of food sensitivity. It brought my pulse up for a couple of years. GP insisted I was hyper and put me on betablockers.> Turns out I was reacting to various foods.> The Pulse Test in the files is very useful is you think this is a possibility. Thanks Mo. I'll have a look at the pulse test in the files.... haven't noticed that there is one. My potassium - at various blood tests - has always been on the high side ... which could be down to my weak adrenal function or because of my potassium-rich diet. Food sensitivity might be a contender, but I have never noticed a pattern, and my pulse is *always* high... very, very rarely below 80 bpm nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hi - most definitely many hypothyroid patients are short of magnesium and taking magnesium should stop your fast heart rate. Try it and see - you might find a miraculous cure using this. In many cases - for those on synthetic thyroid hormone replacement, when they get increased heart rate, they would find that taking Magnesium (about 500mg/day) will help them substantially. If that amount is not enough, especially in women, they should try Progesterone - as this helps a lot (natural progesterone cream rubbed into the skin). If patients get increased heart rate when taking Armour thyroid or T3, they should try adding small amounts of T4 (say 25mcgs) can help balance the T4 and T3 level. I always take 25 mcgs T4 with my 3 grains of Armour. Luv - Sheila I found an interesting article on the net. No idea if it's credible, but perhaps our 'chemical' guys could have a look at it ? http://www.ithyroid.com/ca_and_mg.htm If there is some credit to this claim, then in my case I need more magnesium.... I did ask my GP to include a magnesium check with my last blood test, but guess what .... the lab technicians in their wisdom have declined to do it..... No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.55/2057 - Release Date: 04/13/09 17:56:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hi Caz, I'd say the resting pulse 89 is on the quick side, but then I've felt fine with it faster! I think that your pulse needs to be viewed along with your other symptoms and not alone. How is your blood pressure? Does it rise or drop on standing? Subject: Pulse rates Hi all, Me Again! My resting pulse rate seems to be normal (approx 89 bpm) But is it normal for it to go crazy just by getting up, or only on " Slight exertion " (thumping head, sweaty, ligtheadedness) I think i`m just unfit. Any views? Caz x ------------------------------------ TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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