RE: night time HC and insomnia?

[Guest guest]

Hi Molly

I think this depends upon the reason why you are taking HC in

the first place. If your test results shows low cortisol during the day and

high at night (which many do) then this could be the reason you can't (and shouldn't)

take it at night. If you had high cortisol at night, you are only adding more

and this would cause a very restless night. Cortisol should be highest in the

morning when you wake to get you through the day and it should be at its lowest

at night so you can get some sleep.

I would go back to your day time dosing and not leave too long

between each dose - as HC doesn't last very long in the body, just about a

couple of hours or so I believe.

Luv - Sheila

Having read on here that a small night time

dose of HC has benefitted

some peoples sleep, I took 2.5mg last night before bed. However, I

had a terrible nights sleep and woke up utterly exhausted.

I'm curious to know if anyone else has experienced this? Would the HC

do this or was it just a coincidence? Insomnia is pretty common for

me and I'm trying to figure out cause and effect.

My total dose for the day yesterday was 10mg.

Yesterday was my first day at 10mg and for the first time in many

weeks, I actually had a little energy last night, which felt

wonderful. I've had CFS for 5 years and there have been good times

and bad, but things have been really rough in recent months.

It was so encouraging to feel slightly better last night, sort of like

I'm climbing out of a tunnel, if you know what I mean!

But I'd be intersted to know about the night time dosing.

[Guest guest]

The Jefferies book about cortisol says that cortisol is more effective

if split into 4 doses over the course of the day. However, it also

says that taking cortisol later in the day might cause poor sleep. I

mentioned this to Dr P and he agreed it was a bit contradictory and

said I could experiment.

Anyway I have decided not to take it any later than 6 pm as I have

enough problems with insomnia already.

I thought it was taking Armour at night that was supposed to help

sleep, not the cortisol? I am taking my Armour at night, but haven't

noticed anything.

Miriam

> Having read on here that a small night time dose of HC has

benefitted some peoples sleep, I took 2.5mg last night before bed.

[Edit Abbrevi Mod]

[Guest guest]

Apparently after your first dose of HC all your profile results change, when you are on enough HC in the day it is adviced to take a small dose at night so you dont run too low and adrenaline wakes you up as cortisone is low, this information is from the adrenal forum where they seem to know a lot more. It seems once HC is started you dont go by your profile but try and re educate your adrenals to work in the right rhythum, not sure I have explained it right but thats been my understanding

Hi Molly

I think this depends upon the reason why you are taking HC in the first place. If your test results shows low cortisol during the day and high at night (which many do) then this could be the reason you can't (and shouldn't) take it at night. If you had high cortisol at night, you are only adding more and this would cause a very restless night. Cortisol should be highest in the morning when you wake to get you through the day and it should be at its lowest at night so you can get some sleep.

I would go back to your day time dosing and not leave too long between each dose - as HC doesn't last very long in the body, just about a couple of hours or so I believe.

Luv - Sheila

Having read on here that a small night time dose of HC has benefittedsome peoples sleep, I took 2.5mg last night before bed. However, Ihad a terrible nights sleep and woke up utterly exhausted.I'm curious to know if anyone else has experienced this? Would the HCdo this or was it just a coincidence? Insomnia is pretty common forme and I'm trying to figure out cause and effect.My total dose for the day yesterday was 10mg.Yesterday was my first day at 10mg and for the first time in manyweeks, I actually had a little energy last night, which feltwonderful. I've had CFS for 5 years and there have been good timesand bad, but things have been really rough in recent months. It was so encouraging to feel slightly better last night, sort of likeI'm climbing out of a tunnel, if you know what I mean!But I'd be intersted to know about the night time dosing.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila and Miriam; that clears it up for me!

[Guest guest]

Molly

Are you taking Armour? I've found all the thyroid meds last thing at

night have helped me sleep so much better?

Pen x

[Guest guest]

Pen, no I'm not taking Armour at the moment, just thyroxine.

At the end of this month I have my first appointment with Dr P so he

may well suggest it then.

I've been wondering whether I need to stop taking thyroxine for some

days and allow the HC to " do its thing " , but I dont want to do that

until I've seen him as I have no thyroid at all and thyroxine is my

only source of hormone. I'll just have to see what he says when we meet.

[Guest guest]

Thank you , that makes sense to me.

[Guest guest]

I agree with doctors such as Jefferies and Peatfield. I

think those who take cortisol at night are very few and far between and am not

even sure of any reason why they would need to do this - though I guess there

are some. We do recommend taking any thyroid hormone replacement at night

because it is better absorbed.

Luv - Sheila

The Jefferies book about cortisol says that cortisol is more effective

if split into 4 doses over the course of the day. However, it also

says that taking cortisol later in the day might cause poor sleep. I

mentioned this to Dr P and he agreed it was a bit contradictory and

said I could experiment.

Anyway I have decided not to take it any later than 6 pm as I have

enough problems with insomnia already.

I thought it was taking Armour at night that was supposed to help

sleep, not the cortisol? I am taking my Armour at night, but haven't

noticed anything.

Miriam

[Guest guest]

I don't understand

why it is advised to take a small dose at night? They might say this on the

Adrenal Forum but do they show references to trials or other research? I have

heard about taking HC and Melatonin at night to get the body clock in order

when on a flight from East to West but why would anybody need HC at night

when your cortisol levels should be at their lowest in order to help you sleep.

Sheila

Apparently after your first

dose of HC all your profile results change, when you are on enough HC in the

day it is adviced to take a small dose at night so you dont run too low and

adrenaline wakes you up as cortisone is low, this information is from the

adrenal forum where they seem to know a lot more. It seems once HC is started

you dont go by your profile but try and re educate your adrenals to work in

the right rhythum, not sure I have explained it right but thats been my

understanding

__

[Guest guest]

I read it (Jefferies) as saying that if you take 5mg when going to bed you will have to get up to have a pee, but you will sleep so much better that you will not mind. I had better go & look it up! Yes I have remembered correctly - pages 20 & 41 mention it. He specifically says on this topic:

" An undesirable effect of taking any dosage of glucocorticoid at bedtime is that it tends to cause persistant renal function during sleep, resulting in the need to get up & void once or twice during the night. This is not a serious problem & most patients prefer this inconvenience to the morning fatigue that may result from an inadequate dose of steroid at bedtime. If the patient has suffucuent adrenal reserve the bedtime dosage may be decreased or omitted entirely without difficulty. The occasional patient who complains of inability to sleep after the bedtime dosage of glucocorticoid may be found to be taking it without milk or food, and the insomnia appears to be related to a tendency to acid indigestion aggravated by the steroid. Such a complaint can usually be corrected by taking an antacid or milk or other light nourishment at the time of the bedtime dosage."

Val

..I agree with doctors such as Jefferies and Peatfield. I think those who takecortisol at night are very few and far between and am not even sure of anyreason why they would need to do this - though I guess there are some. We dorecommend taking any thyroid hormone replacement at night because it isbetter absorbed.Luv - SheilaThe Jefferies book about cortisol says that cortisol is more effectiveif split into 4 doses over the course of the day. However, it alsosays that taking cortisol later in the day might cause poor sleep.

[Guest guest]

That's really interesting Val and thank you for posting it. I

did not know about this. For those of you who take a dose of cortisol at night

in this way, I would not recommend that you take your thyroid hormone

replacement at night at the same time, because that MUST be taken on a

completely empty stomach.

Luv - Sheila

I

read it (Jefferies) as saying that if you take 5mg when going to bed you

will have to get up to have a pee, but you will sleep so much better that you

will not mind. I had better go & look it up! Yes I have

remembered correctly - pages 20 & 41 mention it. He specifically says

on this topic:

"

An undesirable effect of taking any dosage of glucocorticoid at bedtime is that

it tends to cause persistant renal function during sleep, resulting in the need

to get up & void once or twice during the night. This is not a

serious problem & most patients prefer this inconvenience to the morning

fatigue that may result from an inadequate dose of steroid at bedtime. If

the patient has suffucuent adrenal reserve the bedtime dosage may be decreased

or omitted entirely without difficulty. The occasional patient who

complains of inability to sleep after the bedtime dosage of glucocorticoid may

be found to be taking it without milk or food, and the insomnia appears to be

related to a tendency to acid indigestion aggravated by the steroid. Such

a complaint can usually be corrected by taking an antacid or milk or other

light nourishment at the time of the bedtime dosage. "

Val

[Guest guest]

Val, thanks a million for this. Its very helpful.

I didnt take any HC going to bed last night, but woke up at 2.30am.

Couldnt sleep, (and really needed to pee) so got up at 4am to take

2.5mg HC with a little food and was able to get to sleep shortly

afterwards. Despite the sleep deficit I'm not as wiped as I thought

I'd be today, which bears out exactly what you've written here.

I guess the moral of the story is to keep a little HC and some food by

the bed so that I can take it immediately on waking if necessary.

Sure enough, the night I took it and experienced insomnia, I hadnt

taken any food with it, so now I know why I spent the night tossing

and turning.

I read your post this morning and was really pleased to read the

rationale behind night time dosing, so again, many thanks for being so

helpful!

As an aside, I've only just worked up to 20mg HC today + 25mg DHEA.

This is the first day in 4 weeks that I've been able to leave the

house to do a couple of errands. Until I meet Dr P I'm self-treating

based on the info in his book and the helpful advice on this forum and

although its early days (and I really dont want to be counting my

chickens just yet), it appears to be starting to work.

Thanks TPA!

[Guest guest]

Yes, I find that cheese is good for a snack in the middle of the night

to help me get back to sleep (without the HC). I think the reason I

wake is because of low blood sugar, and cheese is slow release energy.

It would be nice if one day my blood sugar levels were stable enough

to let me sleep well. Is this something that is related to low

adrenals and low thyroid? I have tried a low carb diet and although

it has helped me go about 4-5 hours between meals (instead of 2-3)

during the day, I often still can't last all night without eating.

Miriam

>

> A little bit of cheese is good for this, as I would not want to

leave a glass of milk or some cream by the bed all night.

>

> Val

>

> I guess the moral of the story is to keep a little HC and some food by

> the bed so that I can take it immediately on waking if necessary.

>