RE: Please read re amount of steroid needed

[Guest guest]

Hi

This is citalopram:- check if it lowers thyroid function as well, perhaps?

1-[3-(dimethylamino)propyl]-1-(4-fluorophenyl)-1,3-dihydro[3,4]benzofuran-5-carbonitrile

There may be an enhanced risk from using it during the period of about two/three weeks from commencement....look carefully at the PIL and tell your DH about this risk....

best wishes

Bob

> Yes and the main one is prozac, which up until recently I didnt know about and I took it for a year! It contains flourine or flouride, thats probably why I

[Guest guest]

I have looked at the PIL, I always do, says nothing about thyroid function but it didnt in the prozac PIL, not sure how much thyroid function I have left anyway. What do mean about increased risk in the first few weeks on using it? I do know it can make you feel worse before better and it can increase anxiety until it gets to a stable level, been there and done that, the first weeks can be tough and make you feel its not working thats why many people stop them before they have given them a chance.

Dr P seemed to think it is a good one to take in my case and im sure better than prozac

Hi

This is citalopram:- check if it lowers thyroid function as well, perhaps?

1-[3-(dimethylamino )propyl]- 1-(4-fluorophenyl)-1,3-dihydro[ 3,4]benzofuran- 5-carbonitrile

There may be an enhanced risk from using it during the period of about two/three weeks from commencement. ...look carefully at the PIL and tell your DH about this risk....

best wishes

Bob

> Yes and the main one is prozac, which up until recently I didnt know about and I took it for a year! It contains flourine or flouride, thats probably why I

[Guest guest]

Hi

[[...The significance of evergreening is underlined by the increased range of drug attributes eligible for patent protection. In the 1980s, the list of relevant drug properties was relatively limited. In the 1990s, the list extended protection in relation to range of use, methods of treatment, mechanism of action, packaging, delivery profiles, dosing route, regimen and range, drug combinations, screening and analytical methods, drug chirality, biological targets and field of use. ......]]

from the 4th Parliamentary Health Report

My Comment ~ Citalopram is twice the stength (and twice the fluorine content) needed if one were to use Escitalopram instead. The latter is just one isomer (in the same way that Thalidomide was teratogenic ~ the wrong isomer did all the damage).

I believe the Es/citalopram is still in the legal system awaiting an appeal on the merits of the latter patent.

I don't know if the higher risk period is associated with the presence of the 'wrong' isomer in the citalopram or not, but guessing, it probably is.

.....feeling worse before feeling better may apply to younger people, but the risk seems just as real for older people from our domestic experience of this drug.

I'm glad you are aware of the potential problem anyway.

best wishes

Bob

>> I have looked at the PIL, I always do, says nothing about thyroid function but it didnt in the

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob

I have used Escitalopram actually and as I understand it is a more potent version of citalopram with a quicker on set of working, a week sees it pretty much effective, I didnt get on with it and stopped after 5 months, it is a cleaner version with the less likelihood of side effects but it made me very anxious for a week at least, I guess what suits one doesnt suit all. I had great results for a long time with seroxat but docs seem reluctant to prescribe that now because of its bad withdrawal. All SSRI's need between 4/6 weeks to take full effect, although some effects can happen sooner.

I believe 20mg of citalopram is the same as 10mg of E/citalopram so yes E/citalopram is stronger and I feel by removing one isomer they say it helps remove the side effects.

Have you had experience of citalopram in your family? It is the most selective of all the SSRI's I believe, I am aware of 'sticking' with these drugs for a while as they dont work instantly and I do know they can make you feel worse before better, prozac was awful in the early weeks and never really did work that well but my doc seems to think its not the one for anxiety, I certainly didnt want to be taking them again but the anxiety has forced me again!

Hi

[[...The significance of evergreening is underlined by the increased range of drug attributes eligible for patent protection. In the 1980s, the list of relevant drug properties was relatively limited. In the 1990s, the list extended protection in relation to range of use, methods of treatment, mechanism of action, packaging, delivery profiles, dosing route, regimen and range, drug combinations, screening and analytical methods, drug chirality, biological targets and field of use. ......]]

from the 4th Parliamentary Health Report

I'm glad you are aware of the potential problem anyway.

best wishes

Bob

>> I have looked at the PIL, I always do, says nothing about thyroid function but it didnt in the

[Guest guest]

I think the 'risks' you are referring to Bob is the increased risk of suicide during the first few weeks, this does apply to the younger people, under 18's more so but I can tell you that prozac made me feel a bit like that, but in older people we are probably less likely to act on these feelings, the younger people dont understand how the drugs work and when they feel worse for a while they dont cope as well, its hard to grasp why something that is meant to help can make you worse to start with, thats why they should be closely monitored and not just handed the drugs and left to it which is something that seems to happen these days

Hi

[[...The significance of evergreening is underlined by the increased range of drug attributes eligible for patent protection. In the 1980s, the list of relevant drug properties was relatively limited. In the 1990s, the list extended protection in relation to range of use, methods of treatment, mechanism of action, packaging, delivery profiles, dosing route, regimen and range, drug combinations, screening and analytical methods, drug chirality, biological targets and field of use. ......]]

from the 4th Parliamentary Health Report

My Comment ~ Citalopram is twice the stength (and twice the fluorine content) needed if one were to use Escitalopram instead. The latter is just one isomer (in the same way that Thalidomide was teratogenic ~ the wrong isomer did all the damage).

I believe the Es/citalopram is still in the legal system awaiting an appeal on the merits of the latter patent.

I don't know if the higher risk period is associated with the presence of the 'wrong' isomer in the citalopram or not, but guessing, it probably is.

.....feeling worse before feeling better may apply to younger people, but the risk seems just as real for older people from our domestic experience of this drug.

I'm glad you are aware of the potential problem anyway.

best wishes

Bob

>> I have looked at the PIL, I always do, says nothing about thyroid function but it didnt in the

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob

It seems all SSRI's contain Flouride, cant win can I? Just done a bit of research, but putting it in perspective, the water we drink contains it, the food we eat probably does our toothpaste does, and my thyroid it already damaged! But at least being treated, there must be millions more people being damaged by chemicals added to drugs and food and water than we can dare to think and probably many with failing thyroids-

Hi

[[...The significance of evergreening is underlined by the increased range of drug attributes eligible for patent protection. In the 1980s, the list of relevant drug properties was relatively limited. In the 1990s, the list extended protection in relation to range of use, methods of treatment, mechanism of action, packaging, delivery profiles, dosing route, regimen and range, drug combinations, screening and analytical methods, drug chirality, biological targets and field of use. ......]]

from the 4th Parliamentary Health Report

My Comment ~ Citalopram is twice the stength (and twice the fluorine content) needed if one were to use Escitalopram instead. The latter is just one isomer (in the same way that Thalidomide was teratogenic ~ the wrong isomer did all the damage).

I believe the Es/citalopram is still in the legal system awaiting an appeal on the merits of the latter patent.

I don't know if the higher risk period is associated with the presence of the 'wrong' isomer in the citalopram or not, but guessing, it probably is.

.....feeling worse before feeling better may apply to younger people, but the risk seems just as real for older people from our domestic experience of this drug.

I'm glad you are aware of the potential problem anyway.

best wishes

Bob

>> I have looked at the PIL, I always do, says nothing about thyroid function but it didnt in the

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

The fluorine is present in Citalopram for the very purpose of making

the drug long-lasting in the body; ie it 'blocks' the metabolic

process that gets rid of the entire compound (a critical Cytochrome

P450 enzyme usually) but there is always a risk that the very

property that induces more enzyme production (because of the usual

one being 'blocked') will also cause antibodies to what the body

thinks is a 'foreign' molecule.

Whether the antibody is to the entire enzyme 'blocked' by Citalopram

or only to the citalopram depends on the duration of use and the

lifetime of the Es/citalopram/enzyme adduct.

Citalopram appears to reduce the amount of the 5HTR2A (5-

HydroxyTryptamine Receptor 2A ~ can be seen on the OMIM site for

clarity as to exactly what systems are affected). This is in addition

to the supposed 'clean' selective serotonin re-uptake inhibition (as

indicated by the term SSRI). Hence, long-term use of Citalopram

and/or Escitalopram will have progressively more adverse effects,

upon withdrawal (which should be gradual, under medical supervision

and dependent upon the total duration of use).

There is a lot to be said for the use of T3 as an adjunctive

treatment along with an antidepressant....and bear in mind the recent

realisation that many so-say mental ill-health problems can be

properly assigned to HPA axis failures (recent papers by Lightman SL

and his group ~ see my research folder if needed).

best wishes

Bob

>

> Hi Bob

> It seems all SSRI's contain Flouride, cant win can I? Just done a

bit of research, but putting it in perspective, the water we drink

[Guest guest]

Hi BoB

I withdrew off E/citalopram too quick, docs dont seem to realise how slow this process should be. I had no problems coming off prozac because of its long half life and I did it over 3 months, it is one of the easier ones to withdraw from if not the easiest.

I am giving citalopram a go, only been a week and I do feel slightly better, then hopefully when my thyroid is back to where it should be I will consider coming off it, I wouldnt think any doc would prescribe T3 for depression/anxiety but I know its benefits in this area

Hi ,The fluorine is present in Citalopram for the very purpose of making the drug long-lasting in the body; ie it 'blocks' the metabolic process that gets rid of the entire compound (a critical Cytochrome P450 enzyme usually) but there is always a risk that the very property that induces more enzyme production (because of the usual one being 'blocked') will also cause antibodies to what the body thinks is a 'foreign' molecule.Whether the antibody is to the entire enzyme 'blocked' by Citalopram or only to the citalopram depends on the duration of use and the lifetime of the Es/citalopram/ enzyme adduct.Citalopram appears to reduce the amount of the 5HTR2A (5-HydroxyTryptamine Receptor 2A ~ can be seen on the OMIM site for clarity as to exactly what systems are affected). This is in addition to the supposed 'clean' selective serotonin re-uptake inhibition (as indicated by the

term SSRI). Hence, long-term use of Citalopram and/or Escitalopram will have progressively more adverse effects, upon withdrawal (which should be gradual, under medical supervision and dependent upon the total duration of use)best wishesBob>> Hi Bob> It seems all SSRI's contain Flouride, cant win can I? Just done a bit of research, but putting it in perspective, the water we drink

[Guest guest]

Sorry !

I did not want to put you off from taking it. I take it, and have been for probably 5 years +. I did not want to add to your concerns from taking what are normal hormones you may or may not need, and some of us do well on them.

Val

some people on here have been told they may benefit from DHEA, me included, as mine was low, now I know what sort of steriod it is I wont be taking it, thanks Val for that informationDHEA is an anabolic steroid. I was discussing this with my endo recently & he confirmed this.Val

[Guest guest]

That ok Val, you havent scared me, I think in my case its best to get the adrenals and thyroid sorted first before adding in anymore hormones thats all

Sorry !

I did not want to put you off from taking it. I take it, and have been for probably 5 years +. I did not want to add to your concerns from taking what are normal hormones you may or may not need, and some of us do well on them.

Val

some people on here have been told they may benefit from DHEA, me included, as mine was low, now I know what sort of steriod it is I wont be taking it, thanks Val for that informationDHEA is an anabolic steroid. I was discussing this with my endo recently & he confirmed this.Val