Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!

[Guest guest]

Gracia:

Those who work in the system know that most of the state hasn’t been paying

the bills to most of the hospitals in state. Everyone has been waiting for the

cat to come of out the bag.

Becky D

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Gracia

Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:00 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!

what state do you live in? Maine has a state

run system for ppl

without insurance and it works pretty well.

Gracia

[Guest guest]

> By the way, I'm not trying to be funny or cheeky or anything .. but really

> " well run " and " government " in the same sentence?

Sometimes, absolutely. Our Army and Navy are incredible, no

matter whether you agree with this or that mission they are one.

NASA has accomplished amazing things too.  And even the

much-maligned post office gets the job done. Public schools

aren't as good as some private schools, but given that they are

underfunded, they do manage to teach our kids a lot.

The countries that have " socialized health care " pay a lot less

for it, overall. And they are statistically healthier. You are currently

paying for all those " free " emergency room visits by poor people,

out of your taxes, and you are also paying for a whole lot of needless

paperwork by your insurance company (and for their lobbyists).

Health care could eat up LESS of our dollars, if it was

reformed.

And there is zero reason to believe herbs or iodine would be more

regulated than they are now. Herb use in Europe has gone UP under

socialized medicine, because it's a cheaper fix. The drug companies

have no interest in iodine because it's too cheap, but if the science

holds up, it would be a way to cut health care expenses.

But the current bill does nothing in the way of regulating drugs or treatment.

There has been talk about making information more available to

doctors, but it's still up to the doctor to make decisions. Which

is better than the decision being left to the insurance and drug

companies.

[Guest guest]

And treatment for my DIL’s neck was out of pocket down at Fort

Hood. Have you tried to get Armour thyroid as a military dependant?

Becky D

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of

Twist

Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:15 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!

> By the way, I'm not trying to be funny or cheeky or anything .. but

really

> " well run " and " government " in the same sentence?

Sometimes, absolutely. Our Army and Navy are incredible, no

matter whether you agree with this or that mission they are one.

NASA has accomplished amazing things too. And even the

much-maligned post office gets the job done. Public schools

aren't as good as some private schools, but given that they are

underfunded, they do manage to teach our kids a lot.

The countries that have " socialized health care " pay a lot less

for it, overall. And they are statistically healthier. You are currently

paying for all those " free " emergency room visits by poor people,

out of your taxes, and you are also paying for a whole lot of needless

paperwork by your insurance company (and for their lobbyists).

Health care could eat up LESS of our dollars, if it was

reformed.

And there is zero reason to believe herbs or iodine would be more

regulated than they are now. Herb use in Europe has gone UP under

socialized medicine, because it's a cheaper fix. The drug companies

have no interest in iodine because it's too cheap, but if the science

holds up, it would be a way to cut health care expenses.

But the current bill does nothing in the way of regulating drugs or treatment.

There has been talk about making information more available to

doctors, but it's still up to the doctor to make decisions. Which

is better than the decision being left to the insurance and drug

companies.

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature

database 4292 (20090730) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature

database 4292 (20090730) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4292 (20090730) __________The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

You can't get it from the private insurers either: my Mom was on it and

now has to change. But the military health care system is said

to be in disarray too ... I can't comment on that because I'm not

part of it. That isn't necessarily because it is the military though:

it has to do with who is running the military. We've been going

through a few years of " on the cheap " military, where we were not

armoring the vehicles or supplying the troops, and there have

been problems as a result. Ditto with FEMA: you put the wrong

people in charge of an organization, it goes downhill.

That doesn't invalidate the principle though. Our military DOES

still work very well, and arguably better than any other on the

planet. And all government military runs better than the alternative,

which is ad-hoc troops like you find in say, Nigeria.

Normally " competition " is a great thing. However, there really isn't

competition in the current system: the insurance companies have

a monopoly, and they have driven up the cost of health care and of

drugs (which are cheaper in any other country, even though they

are made here). The insurance companies have a lot to do with

which drugs you can and cannot buy, and which drugs are produced.

The drug companies decide what they will and will not produce,

based on profit margin. Pretty much nobody has your best

interests at heart.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Becky D<rnrsq@...> wrote:

>

>

> And treatment for my DIL’s neck was out of pocket down at Fort Hood. Have

> you tried to get Armour thyroid as a military dependant?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Becky D

>

>

>

> From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of

>

[Guest guest]

You really don't want to go through cheap military. During the Clinton years

my sons complained about having to make due with parts on everything. They

also got a smaller raise this year and research has been slashed.

Becky D

-----Original Message-----

From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of

[Guest guest]

Sorry about the typo on make do. My mind was racing over parts shortages and

food stamps which is what our troops had for years under Clinton.

Becky D

-----Original Message-----

From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of

[Guest guest]

I will gladly pay for military. I feel that is important as it is a protection of my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Steph

RE: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!

You really don't want to go through cheap military. During the Clinton yearsmy sons complained about having to make due with parts on everything. Theyalso got a smaller raise this year and research has been slashed.Becky D-----Original Message-----From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of

[Guest guest]

the thing is, some insurance companies were shipping patients over seas to have surgery. it was way way cheaper than having it done here. i thought that was way beyond beyond. diane, near philly, pa On Jul 30, 2009, at 7:20 PM, perennialgardener2003 wrote:Poster below Steph's....You have me laughing reading how "some people go to Thailand for surgeries!!!!Why do you think SO many foreign doctors: Surgeons, anesthesiologists, etc. come to the US to work???? Our healthcare standards are superior. Have you ever seen the inside of a hospital overseas such as you state??? Ghastly!!!You're welcome to go over there...but I'd take the US ANYDAY!!!The other point I need to make is if this socialized healthcare bill goes through, and I believe it is just a matter of when, have you seen some of the language which addresses the healthcare coverage that will be available to our seniors???? We have done ortho surgeries on elderly patients who are very spry...a 100 yr old had spinal surgery...a 95 yr old had a hip replaced...an 80 yr old had knee replacement...under this proposed bill what they are talking about is the over coverage of our seniors. This govt does not believe those at the 'end of life' should have SO much $$$ spent on their healthcare! That means that great grandma who gets around just fine except for her knee, will be given pain meds and told to live out the rest of her life the best she can. That 100 yr old who has taken care of himself but just needs a decompression will be laughed to scorn and told we'll give you a used wheelchair but there is no funding for surgery for YOU! You have to remember, the devil is in the details. They are going to pay for this socialized medicine off our seniors backs and off the backs of the working class. And...who knows WHERE else. Michigan>> I agree with everything you have said here. Leave me alone and create a program for others who want it. Because when you force all to be on a program as this one is leaning toward there will be issues. Those of us with very good insurance - let say a 90 and those with govt run insurance are maybe at a 40 in coverage rating when they put all of us on it we will all be at a 60. Not everyone will increase to the 90 level. This is part of the capitalistic / free enterprise system. Employers used benefits as part of compensation to lure good workers to their company. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From:

[Guest guest]

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:20 PM,

perennialgardener2003<perennialgardener2003@...> wrote:

> Poster below Steph's....You have me laughing reading how " some people go to

Thailand for surgeries!!!!

>

> Why do you think SO many foreign doctors: Surgeons, anesthesiologists, etc.

come to the US to work???? Our healthcare standards are superior.

If by " superior " you mean " doctors make more money " , you are correct.

If by " superior " you mean " people get well faster " , that is not

correct. We have among the worst medical records of the " developed "

world. But our doctors make a whole lot more money (as do most other

jobs), so yeah, it's way more lucrative to work here.

 Have you ever seen the inside of a hospital overseas such as you

state???  Ghastly!!!

> You're welcome to go over there...but I'd take the US ANYDAY!!!

I have gone over there, as have relatives. " Ghastly " is not what I'd

say, for the " medical tourism " places. " Cheaper " , yes. I mean, yeah,

there are some pretty awful places in say, the Congo or wherever the

latest war is raging. However, the public hospital in New Orleans was

pretty rough too, when I went there. They cured my strep throat

though.

> The other point I need to make is if this socialized healthcare bill goes

through, and I believe it is just a matter of when, have you seen some of the

language which addresses the healthcare coverage that will be available to our

seniors????

Um, the seniors are mostly ALREADY on public health care. My MIL just

got her lenses replaced because she had cataracts. Free. It is true

they wouldn't pay all the cost for the most expensive option, but she

could have done it if she had paid a bit out of pocket. She is

delighted at her eyesight now.

> We have done ortho surgeries on elderly patients who are very spry...a 100 yr

old had spinal surgery...a 95 yr old had a hip replaced...an 80 yr old had knee

replacement...under this proposed bill what they are talking about is the over

coverage of our seniors.  This govt does not believe those at the 'end of life'

should have SO much $$$ spent on their healthcare!  That means that great

grandma who gets around just fine except for her knee, will be given pain meds

and told to live out the rest of her life the best she can.  That 100 yr old who

has taken care of himself but just needs a decompression will be laughed to

scorn and told we'll give you a used wheelchair but there is no funding for

surgery for YOU!

No evidence for this, really. Medicare is already public, it already

has limitations. None of the elderly I am in contact with are

complaining. And you can always get private insurance to augment

medicare, if you want, or spend your own money for some of the

cadillac options. My Mom is 85, and they are in fact proposing knee

surgery for her under Medicare, but she doesn't want it.

The flip side, of course, is that doctors who want to make money, are

pushing her to have surgery she doesn't want and doesn't feel she

needs. I've seen this a whole lot. The docs will push whatever pays

them, and the hospital, the most. The system corrupts them.

Thing is, people like ME, who are too young for Medicare and not poor

enough for anything else, and not working for a major corporation

full-time, can't get any assistance at all with anything. Which means

I pay more than 100%, if in fact I'm lucky enough to be insurable.

Which would mean, if I get a heart attack, I may as well declare

bankruptcy. I'd be plenty happy with a public option that paid the

basics, and let me pay for the extras. Right now I can't even get the

basics.

> You have to remember, the devil is in the details.  They are going to pay for

this socialized medicine off our seniors backs and off the backs of the working

class.  And...who knows WHERE else.

Like I said, the seniors are ALREADY " socialized " . As is our freeway

system, the parks, the judicial system, the army, the sewer, the

water, the electricity (except for private suppliers, like, well,

Enron. Gee, THAT worked out well!). Yeah, I am forced to pay for roads

I never use, and the sewer system I also don't use (I have septic),

and electric lines I don't use, and schools I don't use. But hey, I

live in a town that doesn't have sewage in the streets, that has a

great public library, where the lights are on almost always and

electric rates are low, and where a crew comes out and fixes them in a

few hours at MOST in the middle of a snowstorm. Where a kid with

developmental difficulties gets physical therapy at school, and poor

kids get breakfast and lunch too. Where the cops come in 10 minutes

when our alarm system goes off accidentally, and they are even polite

about it. And there is a really strong army/navy that is a really big

stick if anyone say, decides to invade the Western US (ain't gonna

happen). And where I can go to a demonstration for either the

Teabaggers or the Obamaniacs and not get hassled, or go to Vegas and

get wasted and gamble a month's paycheck, or become a spokesperson for

whatever religion I choose. And walk down the street alone, as a

woman, with or without a head covering or male escort. So yeah, I pay

my bit, and it's more than a bit! But I get my money's worth.

[Guest guest]

Seriously, this is taking the whole thing to an extreme. Basically

right now we have a system of health care where the whole thing

depends on people getting care through working for a big business.

That system is going away, because big businesses don't want to pay

for it any more.

But you can't get health care privately, because the insurers don't

want to pay for sick people. THAT is the bottom line. People are going

bankrupt because they can't get insurance or the insurance won't pay:

they are losing their houses, and that is helping put the whole world

economy in a tailspin. THAT is happening NOW.

It's not about vaccines or militias. It's about making insurance

available equally to everyone. No one is going to institute a

single-payer system in this country: it has zero chance of passing,

though sure, some people want it. And in the current single-payer

systems, no one is getting vaccinated at gunpoint. Though some kids

are dying of polio because they believe the polio vaccine is a

conspiracy.

The insurance companies like the status quo: they make more money with

it. They are fighting to make people scared, because they want to keep

making money. And hey, it's working! They have people who are at risk

of going bankrupt who can't get insurance, fighting to prevent their

right to get insurance. So by all means, worry about militias and

vaccines. Me, I worry about keeping my house, insuring my employees,

and what happens if one of us gets heart problems.

The insurance company executives *are* some of those " despicable men " ,

and it's a pretty open " conspiracy " , and it absolutely works. They are

controlling your health care, even if you don't have insurance.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Engtovo<engtovo@...> wrote:

>

>

> I tried to stay out of this conversation but this statement just got me.

> Will you still feel that way if our military is deployed on our soil later

> this year or early next year forcing toxic vaccines on you and your children

> at gun point?  If the military were actually doing any of those things I

> might agree but sadly the last act of war or military action by the European

> immigrants, on North American soil, that was for the purpose of protecting

> life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, was the revolutionary war.  Our

> military protects the rights of our big corporations to force upon us and

> the rest of the world the will of international despicable men behind closed

> doors, most of whom will never be known or written into any kind of history.

>

[Guest guest]

My friend, after hearing many suggestions to write our Congressman about this universal health care issue, wrote and received this excellent, immediate reply.

---------- Forwarded Message ----------From: "Congressman McCarthy" <No-Reply.CA22@...>Subject: Reply from Congressman McCarthyDate: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:45:00 -0400

July 28, 2009

Dear Kate:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts in opposition to universal health care.

I strongly agree with you that, especially in these economic times where Washington is spending and borrowing trillions of dollars that will have to be paid back by our children and grandchildren, we must not pass government-controlled universal health care. Any universal health care program that the government controls, funded by a proposed $634 billion in new taxes on hardworking American families that are struggling to make ends meet, could end up becoming a national HMO - where bureaucrats decide which treatments we could have, how much a treatment will be paid for, and when treatments will be made available to the patient. The strength of American health care has

been choice: that we allow patients to choose the doctor that they are most comfortable with, and that we protect the patient-doctor relationship.

Several proposals have been introduced this Congress that include a government-run health plan. One of these proposals that is currently being considered in the Senate is estimated to cost American taxpayers between $1 trillion and $4 trillion and cause millions of Americans to have to change their current coverage.

As your Representative in Congress, be assured that I will oppose government-controlled universal health care and will continue to work with my colleagues in the House and Senate to ensure health-related decisions are the purview of the patient and the doctor-not the federal government.

Thanks again for contacting me on issues of importance to you. If you would like additional information on services my office can provide you, my votes and positions on issues facing our nation, and to subscribe to receive periodic "e-newsletters," please visit my website at http://kevinmccarthy.house.gov/.Sincerely, McCarthyMember of Congress

[Guest guest]

In the letter below it states: - "could end up becoming a national HMO - where bureaucrats decide which treatments we could have, how much a treatment will be paid for, and when treatments will be made available to the patient. The strength of American health care has been choice: that we allow patients to choose the doctor that they are most comfortable with, and that we protect the patient-doctor relationship."Don't we already have insurance company bureaucrats deciding all those things for us, including choosing which doctors they'll cover for us to visit - what's the difference ?AnnetteOn Jul 31, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Theta wrote:My friend, after hearing many suggestions to write our Congressman about this universal health care issue, wrote and received this excellent, immediate reply. ---------- Forwarded Message ----------From: "Congressman McCarthy" <No-Reply.CA22mail (DOT) house.gov>Subject: Reply from Congressman McCarthyDate: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:45:00 -0400 July 28, 2009 Dear Kate: Thank you for sharing your thoughts in opposition to universal health care. I strongly agree with you that, especially in these economic times where Washington is spending and borrowing trillions of dollars that will have to be paid back by our children and grandchildren, we must not pass government-controlled universal health care. Any universal health care program that the government controls, funded by a proposed $634 billion in new taxes on hardworking American families that are struggling to make ends meet, could end up becoming a national HMO - where bureaucrats decide which treatments we could have, how much a treatment will be paid for, and when treatments will be made available to the patient. The strength of American health care has been choice: that we allow patients to choose the doctor that they are most comfortable with, and that we protect the patient-doctor relationship. Several proposals have been introduced this Congress that include a government-run health plan. One of these proposals that is currently being considered in the Senate is estimated to cost American taxpayers between $1 trillion and $4 trillion and cause millions of Americans to have to change their current coverage. As your Representative in Congress, be assured that I will oppose government-controlled universal health care and will continue to work with my colleagues in the House and Senate to ensure health-related decisions are the purview of the patient and the doctor-not the federal government. Thanks again for contacting me on issues of importance to you. If you would like additional information on services my office can provide you, my votes and positions on issues facing our nation, and to subscribe to receive periodic "e-newsletters," please visit my website at http://kevinmccarthy.house.gov/.Sincerely, McCarthyMember of Congress

[Guest guest]

People started losing their homes because they bought more home

than they could afford. Many people warned of the impending disaster with the

housing industry and were met with a stone wall resistance to fix it. Spinning

that into insurances is a very far stretch.

Becky D

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of

Twist

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:40 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!

Seriously, this is taking the whole thing to an extreme. Basically

right now we have a system of health care where the whole thing

depends on people getting care through working for a big business.

That system is going away, because big businesses don't want to pay

for it any more.

But you can't get health care privately, because the insurers don't

want to pay for sick people. THAT is the bottom line. People are going

bankrupt because they can't get insurance or the insurance won't pay:

they are losing their houses, and that is helping put the whole world

economy in a tailspin. THAT is happening NOW.

It's not about vaccines or militias. It's about making insurance

available equally to everyone. No one is going to institute a

single-payer system in this country: it has zero chance of passing,

though sure, some people want it. And in the current single-payer

systems, no one is getting vaccinated at gunpoint. Though some kids

are dying of polio because they believe the polio vaccine is a

conspiracy.

The insurance companies like the status quo: they make more money with

it. They are fighting to make people scared, because they want to keep

making money. And hey, it's working! They have people who are at risk

of going bankrupt who can't get insurance, fighting to prevent their

right to get insurance. So by all means, worry about militias and

vaccines. Me, I worry about keeping my house, insuring my employees,

and what happens if one of us gets heart problems.

The insurance company executives *are* some of those " despicable

men " ,

and it's a pretty open " conspiracy " , and it absolutely works. They

are

controlling your health care, even if you don't have insurance.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Engtovo<engtovo@...> wrote:

>

>

> I tried to stay out of this conversation but this statement just got me.

> Will you still feel that way if our military is deployed on our soil later

> this year or early next year forcing toxic vaccines on you and your

children

> at gun point? If the military were actually doing any of those

things I

> might agree but sadly the last act of war or military action by the

European

> immigrants, on North American soil, that was for the purpose of

protecting

> life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, was the revolutionary

war. Our

> military protects the rights of our big corporations to force upon us and

> the rest of the world the will of international despicable men behind

closed

> doors, most of whom will never be known or written into any kind of

history.

>

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature

database 4294 (20090731) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4295 (20090731) __________The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:19 PM, rockchalkmom2<carold@...> wrote:

> , I realize you are passionate about this topic, but please stop

spreading false information. There have been NO cases of wild polio in the

western hemisphere for well over a decade or more. The only cases that occur in

the western hemisphere are as a DIRECT RESULT of the polio VACCINE. There are a

few cases of wild polio in other parts of the world, but they are VERY few

annually.

It's not an epidemic yet, for sure, but it's not " very few " either.

And I didn't say it was in this country, though it could well spread

here. Diseases have a way of spreading fast. You might not agree with

giving the vaccine, but the information is widespread:

Eradicating the wild polioviruses was supposed to have been achieved

by 2000, but the effort to fight the disease is still ongoing. Polio

cases reached an all-time high this century --1,997 cases -- in 2006.

In 2008 there were more than 1,600 cases identified in 18 countries.

For polio eradication efforts to succeed, countries must focus on

several " weak links " to sustain population immunity from the virus,

argues Barrett, an economics professor at Columbia University in

New York City.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-07/bc-cas071009.php

I think it was Time magazine that talked about WHY it's coming back,

and the reasons have mainly to do with a rumor among the Muslim

community that the vaccine is designed as stealth birth control. My

Mom lived through the polio epidemic here: it was not fun.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Becky D<rnrsq@...> wrote:

>

> People started losing their homes because they bought more home than they

> could afford. Many people warned of the impending disaster with the housing

> industry and were met with a stone wall resistance to fix it. Spinning that

> into insurances is a very far stretch.

>

> Becky D

Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman reports the study

says getting sick is a factor in 62 percent of personal bankruptcies

-- an increase from just eight percent in 1981.

And among those who filed for bankruptcy, 75 percent reported having

some type of medical insurance. But The Washington Post says people in

bankruptcy with insurance were nearly $18,000 in the red. And those

without insurance had an average of almost $27,000 in medical debt.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/05/earlyshow/health/main5064981.shtm

========

62 percent is not my " spin " . It's what is happening. It happens more

to older folks, often folks who bought their houses when they were a

lot cheaper, and now they have a lot of equity for the debt-payment

people to take.

OK, so in this group, a number of people have thyroid cancer. Suppose

the iodine treatment doesn't work, and you need surgery. Or suppose,

like a friend of mine, you get a spasm and think you are having a

heart attack, and you get rushed to the hospital. 50 thousand dollars

later, they tell you you are ok. Or your cancer is in remission.

Then what happens? Well, if you are broke, they write it off.

Otherwise they come after your house, if you have one. If you had

cancer, and don't work for a major company, good luck getting

insurance. From now on, everything you own is at risk. Plus if you are

sick, it's hard to work.

So where do you get your insurance? Do you own a home? What would

happen if you were in a major accident? When the EMT's come to help

your husband who is having a heart attack, do you say " It's ok, he'll

be all right, I don't believe in allopathic medicine " .

If you were a senator, you would have your expenses paid by the public

option. Plus you could supplement your income with help from the

insurance industry. If you lived in Italy or France or Canada, you'd

be treated for free (and yes, I've known people who have been and are

quite happy with their treatment). If you have a few million in the

bank, you'll probably be fine. But for most of us, you can go

bankrupt, and lots of people are. If you think you are immune, good

luck to you.

Most of us just want the same options that government workers and many

students already have: guaranteed insurance. I'm happy to pay for

" extras " and don't expect them to pay for my own experiments. But the

insurance situation is killing American businesses and American

families.

[Guest guest]

Not true that if you get cancer you are on your own. Speaking as a cancer survivor there are two companies in my city alone (Blue Cross being one) that I can get coverage from - and they will cover my thyroid cancer issues. I know this because the last time my husband lost his job I was thinking of going back to work as a contracted consultant (on my own) and my husband stay home with the kids. The only issue was the insurance. So we did some digging.

----- Original Message -----

From:

[Guest guest]

Insurance is based on a state by state policy. It is true that some people have been mistreated by insurance companies in not getting covered for cetain things. You are luck, Steph, that you are a cancer survivor, indeed. I think that we need to be more realistic and compassionate about other people and their quest to resolve their health issues with or with out insurance or ther ability to get or afford insurance.

A national plan is innevitable and it will happen in this country. Let's hope that it has all the right things in it, and that it is a single payer, becuase I can't afford an "inespensive" plan at this point.

Jag

From: ladybugsandbees <ladybugsandbees@...>Subject: Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!iodine Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 5:51 PM

Not true that if you get cancer you are on your own. Speaking as a cancer survivor there are two companies in my city alone (Blue Cross being one) that I can get coverage from - and they will cover my thyroid cancer issues. I know this because the last time my husband lost his job I was thinking of going back to work as a contracted consultant (on my own) and my husband stay home with the kids. The only issue was the insurance. So we did some digging.

----- Original Message -----

From:

[Guest guest]

You are still making a jump. The stats that you show are

on bankruptcies and not your run of the mill forclosure.

http://www.moranlaw.net/house_after_bankruptcy.htm

Banks were lending more than people could afford after being

urged by our government to loosen standards for lending.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=307322285431688

Where does the Early Show get their data?

Becky D

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of

Twist

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:10 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Becky D<rnrsq@...> wrote:

>

> People started losing their homes because they bought more home than they

> could afford. Many people warned of the impending disaster with the

housing

> industry and were met with a stone wall resistance to fix it. Spinning

that

> into insurances is a very far stretch.

>

> Becky D

Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman reports the study

says getting sick is a factor in 62 percent of personal bankruptcies

-- an increase from just eight percent in 1981.

And among those who filed for bankruptcy, 75 percent reported having

some type of medical insurance. But The Washington Post says people in

bankruptcy with insurance were nearly $18,000 in the red. And those

without insurance had an average of almost $27,000 in medical debt.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/05/earlyshow/health/main5064981.shtm

========

62 percent is not my " spin " . It's what is happening. It happens more

to older folks, often folks who bought their houses when they were a

lot cheaper, and now they have a lot of equity for the debt-payment

people to take.

OK, so in this group, a number of people have thyroid cancer. Suppose

the iodine treatment doesn't work, and you need surgery. Or suppose,

like a friend of mine, you get a spasm and think you are having a

heart attack, and you get rushed to the hospital. 50 thousand dollars

later, they tell you you are ok. Or your cancer is in remission.

Then what happens? Well, if you are broke, they write it off.

Otherwise they come after your house, if you have one. If you had

cancer, and don't work for a major company, good luck getting

insurance. From now on, everything you own is at risk. Plus if you are

sick, it's hard to work.

So where do you get your insurance? Do you own a home? What would

happen if you were in a major accident? When the EMT's come to help

your husband who is having a heart attack, do you say " It's ok, he'll

be all right, I don't believe in allopathic medicine " .

If you were a senator, you would have your expenses paid by the public

option. Plus you could supplement your income with help from the

insurance industry. If you lived in Italy or France or Canada, you'd

be treated for free (and yes, I've known people who have been and are

quite happy with their treatment). If you have a few million in the

bank, you'll probably be fine. But for most of us, you can go

bankrupt, and lots of people are. If you think you are immune, good

luck to you.

Most of us just want the same options that government workers and many

students already have: guaranteed insurance. I'm happy to pay for

" extras " and don't expect them to pay for my own experiments. But the

insurance situation is killing American businesses and American

families.

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The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

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[Guest guest]

I agree, and for the record, I'm a libertarian (with a small L) as well.  From where did all of these entitlement issues come?  America used to be about hard work and earning your own way.  Now, it's give me this and give me that because I deserve it even if someone else has to pay for it.

~WOn Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:47 PM, ladybugsandbees <ladybugsandbees@...> wrote:

 

Hey I got cancer too.  If I were to lose my insurance tomorrow and could not pay for COBRA I couldn't get coverage either.  But there are hospitals here that would treat me and I would have to pay them back.  I do not expect anyone to pay for my insurance but myself and it is a risk I bear every day. 

 

Insurance is NOT a right.  It is a privilege.  My mom & dad never had insurance.  It has only been in the last 40 years or less that it has become the standard.  Why?  Because we have more technology to do more things.  Because people have sued doctors so much that healthcare costs have skyrocketed due to malpractice insurance.   Where does it stop?  I want free disability insurance now in case something happens and I can't work.  Oh yeah let's throw in life insurance so that my family can pay ot bury me because after all I had cancer so who knows.  Government's job is not to provide services because when it tries it only takes from the people to give it to others - they are not a business generating revenue.

 

I believe that my church, family and friends are my helpers.  That's how it used to be.  I don't want a handout from anyone.  There were times when I was sick and fighting cancer, having treatment and I worked any job I could selling stuff for others on ebay and whatever else while caring for an infant and a toddler to pay for our COBRA.  I did it by the grace of God and never even considered that it was the Government's job to give me insurance. 

 

[Guest guest]

I will admit that I subscribe to the Libertarian point of view as well. I agree. There was a time when people would have died before they would accept a handout from their neighbor much less the government. Men were proud and refused help stating they could provide for their family. We have lost the self pride and confidence that we can make it on our own. I really believe that most of the candidates (republican or democrat) are elected based on what people think they will get out of them from a "goods" standpoint.

Around here when my children do this we call it the "gimmies".

Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!

I agree, and for the record, I'm a libertarian (with a small L) as well. From where did all of these entitlement issues come? America used to be about hard work and earning your own way. Now, it's give me this and give me that because I deserve it even if someone else has to pay for it. ~W

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:47 PM, ladybugsandbees <ladybugsandbeessbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote:

Hey I got cancer too. If I were to lose my insurance tomorrow and could not pay for COBRA I couldn't get coverage either. But there are hospitals here that would treat me and I would have to pay them back. I do not expect anyone to pay for my insurance but myself and it is a risk I bear every day.

Insurance is NOT a right. It is a privilege. My mom & dad never had insurance. It has only been in the last 40 years or less that it has become the standard. Why? Because we have more technology to do more things. Because people have sued doctors so much that healthcare costs have skyrocketed due to malpractice insurance. Where does it stop? I want free disability insurance now in case something happens and I can't work. Oh yeah let's throw in life insurance so that my family can pay ot bury me because after all I had cancer so who knows. Government's job is not to provide services because when it tries it only takes from the people to give it to others - they are not a business generating revenue.

I believe that my church, family and friends are my helpers. That's how it used to be. I don't want a handout from anyone. There were times when I was sick and fighting cancer, having treatment and I worked any job I could selling stuff for others on ebay and whatever else while caring for an infant and a toddler to pay for our COBRA. I did it by the grace of God and never even considered that it was the Government's job to give me insurance.

[Guest guest]

We are probably reading different people. You are correct that that

wasn't the best thing to quote: most of what I've been hearing has

been in the media and I'm not sure how to find it to reference. But

it's been talked about a lot as a big cause of the current housing

crisis. Granted it was a " perfect storm " situation: if people had

lower mortgages or better saving practices, they could weather an

illness better.

http://works.bepress.com/christopher_robertson/2/

In recent years, there has been national alarm about the rising rate

of home foreclosures, which now strike one in every 92 households in

America and which contribute to even broader macroeconomic effects.

The “standard account” of home foreclosure attributes this spike to

loose lending practices, irresponsible borrowers, a flat real estate

market, and rising interest rates. Based on our study of homeowners

going through foreclosures in four states, we find that the standard

account fails to represent the facts and thus makes a poor guide for

policy. In contrast, we find that half of all foreclosures have

medical causes, and we estimate that medical crises put 1.5 million

Americans in jeopardy of losing their homes last year.

Half of all respondents (49%) indicated that their foreclosure was

caused in part by a medical problem, including illness or injuries

(32%), unmanageable medical bills (23%), lost work due to a medical

problem (27%), or caring for sick family members (14%). We also

examined objective indicia of medical disruptions in the previous two

years, including those respondents paying more than $2,000 of medical

bills out of pocket (37%), those losing two or more weeks of work

because of injury or illness (30%), those currently disabled and

unable to work (8%), and those who used their home equity to pay

medical bills (13%). Altogether, seven in ten respondents (69%)

reported at least one of these factors.

=======

I have to say this strikes home to me because I *almost* lost my home

in much the same way. My husband had gone out to ride his bike. A

block from our house, he was struck by a car. He was rushed the local

(publicly funded!) trauma unit, where he went into convulsions and had

emergency surgery. By the time I knew about it, he was in intensive

care, where he spent the next 10 days in a coma. When he was released,

he was alive, but got fired from his job because the brain damage was

such that they didn't want him there.

OK, so we have insurance, I figure at least I don't have to worry

about THAT. But no. The car insurance didn't kick in, because he

wasn't in his car. The household insurance folks said that since it

was the fault of the other driver, they didn't have to pay. The other

driver didn't have insurance, or any money at all, and in fact was

going to take me to court for damage to his car. The medical insurance

people would cover some part of it, but not nearly enough that I could

pay the rest, esp. since he now couldn't work. I didn't (and don't)

understand all the detail: just that I was in deep trouble.

I ended up getting a lawyer, who does a lot of pro bono work for

people. He said yes, that was standard policy to turn down claims like

that, and to just direct the bill-collecting calls to his office. A

year later he got the hospital bill paid (100 grand) and some money

for lost wages. He was a really good lawyer, and knew how to work with

insurance companies. But if it weren't for him, I would simply have

lost everything.

This isn't about saving and working hard. It's about people making

gross profits at the expense of the rest of us.

[Guest guest]

I like to think of myself as independent. We have to have

business to stay out of the middle ages. Corporations put out most of the supplements

and drugs that I take.

Becky D

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of ladybugsandbees

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:11 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW!

I will admit that I subscribe to the Libertarian point of view as

well. I agree. There was a time when people would have died before

they would accept a handout from their neighbor much less the government.

Men were proud and refused help stating they could provide for their

family. We have lost the self pride and confidence that we can make it on

our own. I really believe that most of the candidates (republican or

democrat) are elected based on what people think they will get out of them from

a " goods " standpoint.

Around here when my children do this we call it the

" gimmies " .

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4295 (20090731) __________The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

>People started losing their homes because they bought more home than they could afford.

Many people warned of the impending disaster with the housing industry and were met with a

>stone wall resistance to fix it. Spinning that into insurances is a very far stretch.

Do you actually believe that people are not losing their homes due to medical bills??? You are truly brainwashed! The housing crisis is a completely different topic.

[Guest guest]

we called it the "i want, gimmies" .. diane, near philly, pa On Jul 31, 2009, at 7:10 PM, ladybugsandbees wrote:I will admit that I subscribe to the Libertarian point of view as well. I agree. There was a time when people would have died before they would accept a handout from their neighbor much less the government. Men were proud and refused help stating they could provide for their family. We have lost the self pride and confidence that we can make it on our own. I really believe that most of the candidates (republican or democrat) are elected based on what people think they will get out of them from a "goods" standpoint. Around here when my children do this we call it the "gimmies". Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW! I agree, and for the record, I'm a libertarian (with a small L) as well. From where did all of these entitlement issues come? America used to be about hard work and earning your own way. Now, it's give me this and give me that because I deserve it even if someone else has to pay for it. ~WOn Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:47 PM, ladybugsandbees <ladybugsandbeessbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: Hey I got cancer too. If I were to lose my insurance tomorrow and could not pay for COBRA I couldn't get coverage either. But there are hospitals here that would treat me and I would have to pay them back. I do not expect anyone to pay for my insurance but myself and it is a risk I bear every day. Insurance is NOT a right. It is a privilege. My mom & dad never had insurance. It has only been in the last 40 years or less that it has become the standard. Why? Because we have more technology to do more things. Because people have sued doctors so much that healthcare costs have skyrocketed due to malpractice insurance. Where does it stop? I want free disability insurance now in case something happens and I can't work. Oh yeah let's throw in life insurance so that my family can pay ot bury me because after all I had cancer so who knows. Government's job is not to provide services because when it tries it only takes from the people to give it to others - they are not a business generating revenue. I believe that my church, family and friends are my helpers. That's how it used to be. I don't want a handout from anyone. There were times when I was sick and fighting cancer, having treatment and I worked any job I could selling stuff for others on ebay and whatever else while caring for an infant and a toddler to pay for our COBRA. I did it by the grace of God and never even considered that it was the Government's job to give me insurance.

[Guest guest]

this is a little off topic kind of but i wanted to say here in philly we have a well known sandwich store called Geno's. his father was from italy and moved here started the business and it became a family thing. not long ago he put a sign in his window, if you don't ask in english, don't come to the window, you will not be waited on. well, the police hang out there, they are a real part of the community. anyway they ended up in court and he told them, my pop came over, learned the language and if you want to live here you learn the language, work, and blend in. i guess the courts couldn't find any problem with that since he still has the sign up. but with not being a born here american, he could get away with what a born here person couldn't. his dad came over and had to learn the language and how to live in a strange land. but the thing was, they became part of the melting pot of the country and worked for what they had. and that is part and parcel of working hard, and providing for yourself. when you ask the government to intervene in everything, they are going to tell you how to live. diane, near philly, pa On Jul 31, 2009, at 7:10 PM, ladybugsandbees wrote:I will admit that I subscribe to the Libertarian point of view as well. I agree. There was a time when people would have died before they would accept a handout from their neighbor much less the government. Men were proud and refused help stating they could provide for their family. We have lost the self pride and confidence that we can make it on our own. I really believe that most of the candidates (republican or democrat) are elected based on what people think they will get out of them from a "goods" standpoint. Around here when my children do this we call it the "gimmies". Re: Re: [3] Free American Health Care NOW! I agree, and for the record, I'm a libertarian (with a small L) as well. From where did all of these entitlement issues come? America used to be about hard work and earning your own way. Now, it's give me this and give me that because I deserve it even if someone else has to pay for it. ~WOn Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:47 PM, ladybugsandbees <ladybugsandbeessbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote: Hey I got cancer too. If I were to lose my insurance tomorrow and could not pay for COBRA I couldn't get coverage either. But there are hospitals here that would treat me and I would have to pay them back. I do not expect anyone to pay for my insurance but myself and it is a risk I bear every day. Insurance is NOT a right. It is a privilege. My mom & dad never had insurance. It has only been in the last 40 years or less that it has become the standard. Why? Because we have more technology to do more things. Because people have sued doctors so much that healthcare costs have skyrocketed due to malpractice insurance. Where does it stop? I want free disability insurance now in case something happens and I can't work. Oh yeah let's throw in life insurance so that my family can pay ot bury me because after all I had cancer so who knows. Government's job is not to provide services because when it tries it only takes from the people to give it to others - they are not a business generating revenue. I believe that my church, family and friends are my helpers. That's how it used to be. I don't want a handout from anyone. There were times when I was sick and fighting cancer, having treatment and I worked any job I could selling stuff for others on ebay and whatever else while caring for an infant and a toddler to pay for our COBRA. I did it by the grace of God and never even considered that it was the Government's job to give me insurance.