Questions on flush, Chanca piedra

[Guest guest]

I've been reading this discussion group for a few weeks. I'd like to

start by thanking all of you for your enthusiasm and advice. The tone of

what follows may seem overly hardheaded, but this is because I'm

frustrated at the difficulty of tracking down well-documented assertions,

and at the inability of mainstream medicine and the alternative health

advocates to talk to each other productively. Western medicine tends to

be highly dogmatic, but has what seems to me a good basic premise, which

is that the world makes sense, and therefore can be explained. I'm not a

strict rationalist, but I'm very reluctant to subject my body to any

procedure I don't understand, whether the procedure is offered by an MD or

by an alternative health expert.

I have a few questions about natural elimination of gallstones, which

perhaps you can help me with.

-the version of the flush which many of you advocate involves Epsom salt,

or another magnesium compound. Reportedly the magnesium opens up the

ducts. Is there anyone who can cite any scientific support for this

assertion? I notice there's another version of the flush which uses just

olive oil and lemon juice (see

http://health.microworld.com/html/gall_stone_cleanse.htm). So it appears

the flush can work, and work comfortably, without magnesium. Some cursory

searches of the medical literature don't show any association between duct

dilation and magnesium....

-many accounts of the flush imply that the olive oil itself trickles into

the gallbladder, or at least into the ducts, thereby lubricating the

stones and helping them exit the biliary system. Looking at anatomical

diagrams of the gallbladder, ducts, and their relation to the stomach and

the duodenum, I'm having trouble seeing how the olive oil could make its

way into the ducts or the gallbladder. I'm assuming that the common duct

isn't generally hanging open, but has a sphincter to prevent intestinal

contents travelling up the duct. Assuming this, I don't see how the olive

oil can get in. I suppose there could be metabolites or components of the

olive oil which affect the biliary system less directly, via the

bloodstream. I'm not dismissing the possible efficacy of the olive

oil--I'm just puzzled.

-some of you have mentioned that you have taken Chanca Piedra (Phyllanthus

niruri, or P. amarus). Can any of you report on your results? Most of

the web pages offering information on this herb seem to be highly

derivative of one another, and searches of medical papers on Medline

reveal substantial research on Phyllanthus, but very little addressing its

effect on gallstones. So I'm looking for some anecdotes or testimonials.

In general, I'm looking for more insight into the actual mechanics of the

flush. It may sound as if I'm being highly sceptical, but I'm not--I just

want to understand what I'm doing before I do it. I certainly have more

confidence in alternative approaches to gallstones than I have in the

approach offered by doctors, which favors the knife. My own belief is

that there is very likely a non-surgical approach to this problem, and

it's just a matter of determining what it is.

One thought which I've had over and over again as I've done research over

the last several weeks, is that it's a shame that medical researchers

aren't--apparently--researching the alternative approaches to gallbladder

disease. It would be pretty simple to design a clinical study to document

whether the gallbladder flush is genuinely removing gallstones, or to

document which flush method is most effective. Likewise, a study of

Chanca Piedra would be easy to do. Surely some obscure medical school

would like to make a name for itself by either debunking or corroborating

the assertions of the alternative health movement.

Regards,

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