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This may be coming to and AOL, so we need to be careful of what we post.

From: "" <wmm@i...> Date: Mon May 31, 2004 12:55 pmSubject: Copyright -on Delphi forums

Notice to Delphi Forum hosts:

Delphi admin are checking forums to be sure posts are within their copyright guidelines. Forums may be shut down if copyright is violated.

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  • 7 years later...

Hi Sheila

While I worked in Intellectual Property up to retirement, my involvement with

copyright was limited to industrial designs so I am no expert on copyright in

general. However, in registering with Talkhealth, I note that they did not ask

me to agree to any restrictions on my use of the site. Their restrictions only

come into play by virtue of their Terms & Conditions which I suppose we agree to

by using the site - although that could be debatable.

The relevant part of the T & C says is:

_______________________________________________________________

Intellectual Property

By submitting any information to talkhealth you are granting talkhealth

permission to reproduce and edit in any format. At the same time you are also

permitting any other visitor/member access and reproduction rights for personal

use only.

Reproduction of any of the materials on all talk sites in any format is not

allowable without the express permission in writing from talkhealth.

_______________________________________________________________

Note that this does not involve transfer of copyright from the contributor to

Talkhealth. It only gives Talkhealth the right to reproduce so they do not have

ownership of copyright in the text submitted. Moreover, the contributor gives

any other visitor/member of the site the right to reproduce the contributor's

comments for personal use. In other words, anyone can take the text of the

comments from the site and paste them into a word processor for their own

personal use. Putting those comments on the TPA site is unlikely to amount to

personal use though. Because Talkhealth do not have ownership of the copyright

in the comments, I would be surprised if Talkhealth would think it worth their

time and effort to pursue TPA in the courts - but you never know so I am sure

you'd rather not take the risk.

Coming to the point you actually posed, the fact that they deleted some of the

" copyrighted " submissions doesn't change the situation in the same way that, if

I produce a painting and it is lost in a fire, I still own the copyright and

someone reproducing it would still be infringing copyright. However, I might

have a difficult job proving what the subject of the copyright is if it no

longer exists and one of the things you would have to do in court is actually

prove you have ownership.

mentioned fair use. That may provide a way around the problem. Go to

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p27_work_of_others which is a fairly

straightforward summary. I think the " criticism or review " section potentially

provides a way around the issue. The relevant section says:

Criticism or review

Quoting parts of a work for the purpose of criticism or review is permitted

provided that:

The work has been made available to the public.

The source of the material is acknowledged.

The material quoted must be accompanied by some actual discussion or assessment

(to warrant the criticism or review classification).

The amount of the material quoted is no more than is necessary for the purpose

of the review.

In other words, a criticism or review of a particular issue from the Talkhealth

site would justify quoting the material from Talkhealth provided no more is used

that is necessary for the purpose of the review. Just quoting the material

verbatim wouldn't be good enough; there would have to be a review or

analysis/criticism of it. Note also that the source of the material is

acknowledged. It might be just as well to mention that any material quoted is

being used here by virtue of the Fair Use provisions of UK copyright law.

TonyC

>

> Can anybody give me an answer please.

How can

> anything be copyrighted if it doesn't exist anymore.?

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

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Hi Sheila

The overriding principle of copyright is that you don't pass somebody else's

work off as your own. Therefore if you wanted to use anything from the forum as

long as you cite exactly where you got the information from you are not in

breach. Hope that helps.

I don't think Talk Health would do anything anyway - spend out on a lawyer for

something so contentious that would give the TPA all the publicity they could

dream of? I don't think so! They showed themselves to be awful bullies didn't

they?

Debs

x

>

> Hi Sheila

>

> You might get an answer to this question if you ask on this forum as they seem

to have 'experts' who know about UK copyright law.

>

> http://www.copyrightaid.co.uk/forum/

>

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Then I will not fight any copyright laws, too complicated. Instead,

if I want to use anything that the 'experts' wrote, I will put it into my own

words but say who quoted it. Thanks for this Helen, I really am grateful.

Luv - Sheila

As to the idea that copyright only applies if you try to pass work off as your

own, I'm afraid this is not the case. You may not reproduce the copyright

property of others, even if you give the attribution. A lot of people seem to

think that you can, but legally it isn't so. I work with this rule every day (I

am a moderator on messageboards) and the most we can allow people to post (from

a book, song, article elsewhere on line, etc) is a brief paragraph, within the

spirit of 'fair use'. More than that and it is breach of copyright. Wikipedia

is one exception, as it is all public domain. Establishing what other sources

are public domain can be difficult, unless the author has been dead for over 70

years. (When copyright expires).

In this case, I don't think it will matter if Talkhealth delete the messages,

they were still 'published' on their site and Talkhealth, according to the Terms

and Conditions of that forum (which I have to admit, I didn't read) will

presumably still have copyright on the posts.

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HI SHEILA

I have just received a response from the government dept to say I will get a

response in about 5 days.Once I get the response I can then add further queries

to it. There is a phone number, but its best to get it in writing. I queried my

questions in the past with the Government Dept and they make the laws. The

WEBSITES for Government have changed a bit. Why do you think the time was not

correct on their messages. My computer states the time as 16:49 but their

messages were ahead of the time on my PC. ANSWERS PLEASE.

Kathleen

>

> It must be situated in the UK because I telephoned them and it was a UK

> number.

>

> Sheila

>

>

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Glad to help - and I think paraphrasing is the best policy, yes. You're fine

there.

>

> Then I will not fight any copyright laws, too complicated. Instead, if I

> want to use anything that the 'experts' wrote, I will put it into my own

> words but say who quoted it.

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Kathleen, I can't answer, they may have chosen to use US time or

another time from elsewhere. The only people who could tell you are the

TalkHealth Administrators. I know I telephoned a number in the UK. How much

ahead of time are their messages. We will wait and see what the government say

about copyright.

Luv =- sheila

I have just received a response from the government dept to say I will get a

response in about 5 days.Once I get the response I can then add further queries

to it. There is a phone number, but its best to get it in writing. I queried my

questions in the past with the Government Dept and they make the laws. The

WEBSITES for Government have changed a bit. Why do you think the time was not

correct on their messages. My computer states the time as 16:49 but their

messages were ahead of the time on my PC. ANSWERS PLEASE.

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