Re: Causes/ cures?? - FRUIT!

[Guest guest]

Well, , you had me going there for a while till you said to only

eat fruit and nothing else in order to eat what we were put on the Earth

to eat.

That started to sound pretty " out there " and hard to swallow (pardon the

pun.)

I'm still confused as to whether " no fats " means no good and bad fats or

just animal and saturated fats. My acupuncturist today told me that

olive oil is not a fat. Having completed the 10th+ grade I had to

disagree with her. It places doubt on the credibility of a person's

advice when they don't even have their scientifically established facts

right. Oils ARE fats. Whether they are good once you are in the midst

of gallbladder disease/pain is still an open issue (to me). But don't

tell me oils aren't fats and don't tell me humans should only eat

fruit. We've got enough to sort out, without confusing philosophies

with facts.

Also I think there is a lot of folklore and ignorance going around, but

I wouldn't call it stupidity. Name-calling never got us anywhere.

As for me I know I need to eat more fruits and vegetables (and less

everything else). And my acupunturist told me to drink apple juice,

which I can do without causing myself too much harm (usually stay away

due to sugar content).

But I'll hold off on the olive oil till I get the results of the

ultrasound.

PS Also, , if you know how to eat, I wonder what attracted you to

this particular listserve...seems like you have this thing licked.

[Guest guest]

;

Dr. Cabot's book is perhaps the best one I can point to for any novice seeking good easy to read information about the liver, and things to do for it. I agree with you that some will not find it as useful, because everyone is different in one way or another. Hell, three quarters laying on a table aren't the same. They may be quarters, but their in a different space, were produced at different times even if only seconds apart, and aren't the same molecules. However, there are the basics, you and I perhaps have advanced past the basics, and are well aware of our bodies individuality, others are not and are just now starting to search for an answer. They wouldn't be needing to research an answer if they'd been properly educated about what dangers their previous life style had been leading them to.

I can't agree with you more regarding fruits, and vegetables, as a means for EFAs. It would be GREAT if everyone here would eat them on a daily basis, but for the most part I would guess that just doesn't happen. I know for myself I may go days without eating fruit. Nor, do I necessarily eat my vegetables as I'm suppose to do. I do however get a chance to make up for that by having a juice drink that contains lemon, beet, celery, parsley and carrot juice, usually at least twice a week. But, when my gallbladder and liver were in very serious need, I was drinking that on a daily basis, excepting weekends. I also try to make sure that I eat a salad with a lettuce that has real food properties.

There are more books to which others here have pointed, and those, I'm sure, are very informative too. I just know that my applying Dr. Cabot's suggestions has had me without a gallbladder attack for over a year now. My last, and worst, was on October 23, 1999, which we just finished paying off that emergency room bill. I had within a seven month period from February to October four visits to the emergency room in 1999 . I've had none since. So, if Dr. Cabot's information can work for just one more person as it has for so many others, then so be it. I'm just very sorry it hasn't been useful for your situation but it will, none the less, help a person new to the problem of dealing with a gallbladder or liver problem to have some authorities insight and helpful suggestions.

DaleDa_@...

----- Original Message -----

From: Macdonald

gallstonesegroups

Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 3:36 PM

Subject: Re: Causes/ cures?? - FRUIT!

----- Original Message -----

From: Dale

gallstonesegroups

Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 11:48 PM

Subject: Re: Gallstones: Causes/ cures??

Dale wrote:

I would like to point out to you that in the avoiding of fats you should NOT avoid EFAs. Essential Fatty Acids are needed by the liver for the purpose of cellular strength and for the liver's capacity to remove LDL cholesterol, and make the good HDL cholesterol. It's a bit to get into here, but if you were to get hold of the book "The Liver Cleansing Diet" by Dr. Cabot, you'll learn more than enough about what to eat and what to avoid for good liver and gallbladder health.

responds:

Sorry to keep nagging about this, Dale, and Group, but what one gets as a result of purchasing the Cabot book is one person's limited opinion of what it takes to get and keep a liver healthy. This approach will just NOT work for some follks, for instance, myself--and there are many others out there in gallbladder land like me--

in too extreme a condition of liver un-health, to have a serious hope of avoiding a surgery through the use of her recommendations. Alternately, FRUIT has the necessary fatty acids in it and is the diet most likely to actually heal the liver and gallbladder due to the removal of all foods that cause the body catabolic stress, which includes fresh, raw vegetables.

The fatty acid "requirement" can be met by the fruits themselves, so no supplementation is necessary so long as the diet is kept as simple and liver-friendly as FRUIT ONLY. A fruit diet, even if adhered to for the short-term, would go the longest way toward helping anyone radically cleanse and heal their liver/gallbladder "naturally" and present the finest hope of avoiding all these surgeries that have become the focus of this list, lately. I understand the resistance of folks to doing this--it's hard to ditch the pizza-for-lunch club, and even raw salads are more socially acceptable than sitting in the break-room ascetically chewing on a few orange slices, but it's a matter of priorities--food addiction grants one wide social acceptance in our society, at the ultilmate expense of one's body-parts, and, eventually, one's life. But that same social group will also salve your conscience with praise, applauding you for doing "the best you could" with diet (despite the fact that you didn't do what made the most sense to do) and accept you, unconditionally, rewarding you, with its ongoing acceptance, for your conformity, and your stubbornness, and your stupidity, so that this group can, mainly, remain convinced that they too, should be allowed to perpetuate the myth that humans are supposed to be indulging themselves in all matter of foods other than fruit, that were never meant to be foods for humans, while everyone continues to shirk their duties of basic self-care, shutting out responsibility for the welfare of their bodies that, if attended to, could restore Man to his original destiny on Earth. How nice we encourage and support each other to be so much less than we could be! It's a shoddy and pathetic conspiracy!

There has been found evidence, by the way, of an ancient fruit-eating culture, located in an isolated, formerly lush, tropical, island location, in Mesopotamia, whose members were significantly taller, stronger-boned, and longer-lived than other humans. (This piece of information is for those who don't mind combining history, archeology, and theology with their health interests.)

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[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: Dale

gallstonesegroups

Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 11:48 PM

Subject: Re: Gallstones: Causes/ cures??

Dale wrote:

I would like to point out to you that in the avoiding of fats you should NOT avoid EFAs. Essential Fatty Acids are needed by the liver for the purpose of cellular strength and for the liver's capacity to remove LDL cholesterol, and make the good HDL cholesterol. It's a bit to get into here, but if you were to get hold of the book "The Liver Cleansing Diet" by Dr. Cabot, you'll learn more than enough about what to eat and what to avoid for good liver and gallbladder health.

responds:

Sorry to keep nagging about this, Dale, and Group, but what one gets as a result of purchasing the Cabot book is one person's limited opinion of what it takes to get and keep a liver healthy. This approach will just NOT work for some follks, for instance, myself--and there are many others out there in gallbladder land like me--

in too extreme a condition of liver un-health, to have a serious hope of avoiding a surgery through the use of her recommendations. Alternately, FRUIT has the necessary fatty acids in it and is the diet most likely to actually heal the liver and gallbladder due to the removal of all foods that cause the body catabolic stress, which includes fresh, raw vegetables.

The fatty acid "requirement" can be met by the fruits themselves, so no supplementation is necessary so long as the diet is kept as simple and liver-friendly as FRUIT ONLY. A fruit diet, even if adhered to for the short-term, would go the longest way toward helping anyone radically cleanse and heal their liver/gallbladder "naturally" and present the finest hope of avoiding all these surgeries that have become the focus of this list, lately. I understand the resistance of folks to doing this--it's hard to ditch the pizza-for-lunch club, and even raw salads are more socially acceptable than sitting in the break-room ascetically chewing on a few orange slices, but it's a matter of priorities--food addiction grants one wide social acceptance in our society, at the ultilmate expense of one's body-parts, and, eventually, one's life. But that same social group will also salve your conscience with praise, applauding you for doing "the best you could" with diet (despite the fact that you didn't do what made the most sense to do) and accept you, unconditionally, rewarding you, with its ongoing acceptance, for your conformity, and your stubbornness, and your stupidity, so that this group can, mainly, remain convinced that they too, should be allowed to perpetuate the myth that humans are supposed to be indulging themselves in all matter of foods other than fruit, that were never meant to be foods for humans, while everyone continues to shirk their duties of basic self-care, shutting out responsibility for the welfare of their bodies that, if attended to, could restore Man to his original destiny on Earth. How nice we encourage and support each other to be so much less than we could be! It's a shoddy and pathetic conspiracy!

There has been found evidence, by the way, of an ancient fruit-eating culture, located in an isolated, formerly lush, tropical, island location, in Mesopotamia, whose members were significantly taller, stronger-boned, and longer-lived than other humans. (This piece of information is for those who don't mind combining history, archeology, and theology with their health interests.)

[Guest guest]

,

----- Original Message -----

From: Bramer

gallstonesegroups

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 7:13 PM

Subject: Re: Causes/ cures?? - FRUIT!

You wrote:

Well, , you had me going there for a while till you said to onlyeat fruit and nothing else in order to eat what we were put on the Earthto eat.

I'm responding:

You are not quoting me accurately, but, anyway, the important point is my

assertion that the least catabolically stressful food is fruit. So, if you are attempting to relieve the liver, and help it reach its highest potential, then eating a diet of mostly-to-all fruit (with respect for one's individual capacity to do this) is a wise choice. As the liver reaches for its highest potential, it stands to reason, so would the liver-owner. The diet lends one a distinct biochemical advantage.

You wrote

That started to sound pretty "out there" and hard to swallow (pardon thepun.)

I'm responding:

Definitely 'out there" on the extremist's end of things, but it may take "extreme" to actually heal. There are people coming and going from this list who resort to surgery who don't explore "extreme", so I think it's safe to say that "extreme" remains a place where there is a, relatively, unexplored place for healing. Not hard to swallow, unless a person is incredibly de-mineralized, then fruit may be tasteless and unappealing, as well, until the healing is well underway.

You wrote:It places doubt on the credibility of a person'sadvice when they don't even have their scientifically established factsright.

I'm responding:

Scientific "facts" are always changing. That's what the discovery process is all about. On this list, we don't even have the "scientific facts" of the flushes down-pat, yet, so I guess we don't need to authenticate our dietary ideas or practices with them, either, eh?

You wrote:

Oils ARE fats. Whether they are good once you are in the midstof gallbladder disease/pain is still an open issue (to me). But don'ttell me oils aren't fats and don't tell me humans should only eatfruit.

I'm responding:

I don't recall expounding on the subject of oils, lately. But why shouldn't anyone tell you something they believe? Everyone needs stimulation, and it's up to you to determine the relevancy of the information for yourself, in my opinion. Your ultimate determination might be "right", and it might be "wrong", but it's better than never receiving the information at all. There is plenty of "science", if you like science, to support the concept of fruit-eating as the natural diet for humans. I can refer you to a group that discusses this subject, abundantly, and documents most of their assertions.

You wrote:

We've got enough to sort out, without confusing philosophieswith facts.

I'm responding:

This group is about exploring options. We are a diverse group, so those

options will not necessarily be consistent, and confusion, sorry, may reign. You just need to sort the concepts out to suit yourself and make your own choices, accordingly.

You wrote: Also I think there is a lot of folklore and ignorance going around, butI wouldn't call it stupidity. Name-calling never got us anywhere.

I'm responding:

I called it as I perceive it. My perception is that humanity is, at this point in time, behaving in a, generally, pretty "stupid" manner. The best way to change behavior is to identify it as undesirable, first. No need to take personal offense unless you want to be motivated. You can use the close-cousin term "ignorant", if you like.

You wrote: As for me I know I need to eat more fruits and vegetables (and lesseverything else). And my acupunturist told me to drink apple juice,which I can do without causing myself too much harm (usually stay awaydue to sugar content).

I'm responding:

One of the points I make here, routinely, just 'cause it might help someone out one of these days, is that raw vegetables can be very problematic for the liver-impaired. They should, in my opinion, not, necessarily be presumed to be of health benefit. My own darkfield tests very much evidenced liver-distress in response to raw vegetation in my diet, which was entirely relieved, along with a candida and sugars-intolerance condition, within three months of their removal from my diet.

While what was true for me, may not be true for you, or someone else, there is a possibility that the same COULD be true for you or anyone else,

and that's the potential benefit of sharing experience, in this case, documented by a before and after live-blood analysis under a darkfield microscope by licensed practitioners who were amazed at what they witnessed in the comparisons of these two tests in relation to one simple change in the diet.

You wrote:

But I'll hold off on the olive oil till I get the results of the ultrasound.

I'm responding:

In case you missed it in past posts, I have abandoned the use of olive

oil flushes because the fruit diet has relieved me of feeling any need of such a protocol. While this, too, might not, necessarily, be the experience of someone else who adopts the all-fruit approach, it certainly remains a possibility worth letting people know about.

You wrote:

PS Also, , if you know how to eat, I wonder what attracted you tothis particular listserve...seems like you have this thing licked.

I'm responding:

I've been figuring it out by being here, so stick around--it's, potentially, a very valuable place to be.