Phosphytidyl Choline

[Guest guest]

Dotsie,

If your looking for someone who's actually doing/done the Kane

protocol -- IVs of phosphatidylcholine followed by glutathione --

then I'm your girl. I've done the IV protocol at " the source " (Dr.

Speight's office in NC -- he's one of the co-authors of the Detoxx

book), and I'm also doing it now with a doc in my home state of AZ.

It's funny that this topic would come up today, as I had an IV set

this morning, and while I as there the doc and I compared the

formulation AND prices of Essentiale N phosphatidylcholine (the form

specified by the Kane protocol, and the one I'm using) vs. Plaquex

(the one this doc uses for his other patients not on the Kane

protocol).

According to the inserts, Essentiale N has a higher % of PC than

Plaquex. It also comes in single-use vials vs. multi-use for

Plaquex. Apparently, as soon as a vial is opened, the PC begins to

degrade, so the doc and I were guessing that that (along w/ the

higher % of PC) is the reason the Kane folks specify Essentiale N as

the PC of choice. In reality, PC degradation probably isn't all

that much and may not warrant the price difference, but that's up to

you to decide for yourself.

Cost wise, Essentiale N runs about twice that of Plaquex. I

purchase the Essentiale N directly from Switzerland for myself, so I

know those prices to the penny, and the doc shared his Plaquex order

form with me today so I now know his costs for that too. I need to

say that Jill's quoted price of $55 for 5 vials of PC from

Essentiale N is kind of misleading because it fails to add in the

cost of shipping from Switzerland and ESPECIALLY, totally omits the

fact that each PC infusion requires not 1 but 2 vials of PC. Did

you know that? Thus the true out-of-pocket cost for Essentiale N is

~$23.40 per IV (2 x $11, + shipping) not $11 (as one might assume

from $55 / 5 = $11). Further, adding in the cost of glutathione,

the total cost of product for each infusion set runs closer to $30.

Time wise, let me assure you that it takes more than a " few minutes "

to do this. Each IV set runs at LEAST 20 minutes of hands-on time

assuming " ideal " conditions -- great veins, easy needle stick, no

difficulty withdrawing the blood which is then mixed w/ the PC, not

rushing the 3-5 infusion time for the PC, then another 3-5 minutes

for the glutathione, no funky patient reactions to the IVs, plus

syringe prep time just prior to infusion (as both products are kept

refrigerated). Thankfully, I'm a patient with ideal conditions, but

I've been in the infusion room with many patients who are not so

lucky and take much longer.

So, while most of the time the line forms behind me for patients

outraged by price gouging by docs -- I heard one doc in LA is

actually quoting $230 for the IVs (yikes!) -- as patients trying to

determine a reasonable price for this protocol, we must

realistically include at least 20 minutes of doctor time (30 is

better for many patients) and $30 in product (less if using Plaquex

for the PC). It would also be reasonable to expect some **modest**

markup of these base costs since we are, after all, in " capitalist

America. "

Hope that's of some help to you.

Trish

--- " jill1313 " <jenbooks13@h...> wrote:

> Hi Dotsie, I don't know about plaquex but it takes only a few

minutes

> to infuse the PC...and as I have authored books for holistic docs,

I

> know what the actual costs are of supplies for things like IV

> materials, vitamins, minerals, and even know of a significantly

> cheaper source I heard of for PC...so, I'm sorry, I disagree on

the

> prices docs charge for this kind of thing. I think its unfair to

> chronically ill patients who have to pay out of pocket and are at

> their wit's end. Anyway, I'm all for self-help treatments, and

home

> treatments. That's why I like hyeprbaric, ozone sauna etc, you

can

> do it at home, you can push yourself or back off, and you don't

have

> to pay, pay, pay. Buying rather than renting....

[Guest guest]

<<Hope that's of some help to you>>

Hi Trish,

Wow!! This is very helpful. I am printing it now and will give it to

the doctor. I'm going to look up Essentiale N now.

Thanks so much,

Dotsie

[Guest guest]

Hi Trish, thanx for the specifics.

I did not mention, because I can't give any more details, that a

friend found a cheaper source than 5 vials for $55. I mentioned that

because it's the going rate. But assumign 5 vials and shipping,

which I wasn't thinking of, your rate makes sense.

Glutathione, I buy myself for my IV's, with Rx, and bring them down

to my doc...which makes the cost very reasonable (not $30/vial, but I

can't remember the exact cost at this moment. Shipping is overnight

with freezer pak, so if you buy enuf in advance, it becomes cheaper).

The actual cost charged to insurance for a " nurse's visit "

(phlebotomist, at most holistic docs) is $40...in an IV room they

don't usually need to sit with the same person for 20 minutes. I

don't know how it is with the PC, or plaquex, can you let us know?

In normal IV's and even pushes, they can stick you, get you going,

stick somebody else, get them going, take out somebody's else's IV,

and then come back to you as you're all sitting in a comfortable room

together. But how much are those phlebotomists/nurses being paid per

hour? In any case, it isn't usually the doctor themselves who is

doing it and that's not how it was described to me by a young woman

who had been at Kane's office and was angered by the prices (she came

to try my hyperbaric chamber).

The price that E-Lyte, which is associated with Kane et al, charges

for the PC brand they recommend (orally) is significantly higher than

the cost at AMerican LEcithin Company,w hich provides it. I think

these markups are unfair to the patients, since the doctors are

already making beacoup bucks on consults.

I didn't realize you were the person doing PC--along with the

ozone? I wonder what the combination is doing, as opposed to using

either one alone.

[Guest guest]

> Dotsie,

>

> If your looking for someone who's actually doing/done the Kane

> protocol -- IVs of phosphatidylcholine followed by glutathione --

> then I'm your girl.

> Trish

=======================================

Hi Trish,

What exactly does this stuff do, what are you treating yourself for,

and what benefits have you gotten from this?

Thanks,

Gail