Re: Prosoteine, an energy nutrient without the jitters

[Guest guest]

Why do they put fillers in something that is supposed to be healthy

and for health? No need for glycerin (that made Calorad intolerable

to me)--but most people won't mind it--but proplyene glycol etc?

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan,

" Prosoteine is an entirely new protein that keeps the body alive,

creates vitality and energy never experienced before, and one can

feel the difference in as little as 10 minutes. Says Grisé, " We found

in the molecules of the cell, what makes rejuvenation happen " .

According to Dr. Ed. Wagner, it resores mitochondria, the body's

energy producers, and failitates their energy production rather than

kicking what's left of them into high on a temporary basis without

the benefit of restoration. The inability to restore mitochondria, so

frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome.

"

Pretty amazing if that's true! Do you have links to any studies that I could

read?

Best regards,

Dave Narby

Prosoteine, an energy nutrient without the jitters

I think about 30% of people will find this new product interesting as

it may represent a real threat to the coffee and guarana industry,

and it's good for you.

Body Electric

One of the biggest challenges many of us face every day is simply

avoiding feeling drained of energy. Chronic stressors from every

quarter of our fast-paced and toxic world impair our energy

production, so people have been drinking neurostimulants such as

coffee, guarana and until recently, ephedra. A huge emerging energy

industry based on stimulants has gone from $2 billion to $5 billion

in the last two years; Starbucks alone has seen revenues grow from

$2.6 billion to $4 billion, because many of us are willing to spend

$10 a day to get a jolt from marginally healthy to somewhat toxic

neurostimulants that do not enhance either mental clarity or

performance. Now we no longer need to justify that kind of edge.

A new product, Protoseine, a vegetarian performance enhancer

that contains no stimulants at all, launched on October 21 2004. This

new player delivers energy, mental clarity and vitality, and it

offers cumulative long term health benefits by nourishing our bodies

on a cellular level. This safe product will capture a good portion of

the energy (Red Bull) market for a cost similar to just a couple of

cups of coffee per day. It will attract millions of baby boomers who

want to look and feel great and live longer because it uniquely

addresses their anti-aging needs. It will probably also capture the

fitness market because it increases work; this instantly makes

Prosoteine the hottest amino acid product on the market. It will give

the jitters all right, but not to the public, to the energy market

giants.

A few years ago, Michel Grisé, legendary Canadian formulator of

Calorad, the hugely popular collagen-based, liquid supplement from

Essentially Yours Industries, began to investigate vegetarian sources

for Calorad's collagen-like protein. During the course of developing

the new plant protein, his team discovered a far superior and more

pure amino acid chain than any protein from an animal source.

Prosoteine is an entirely new protein that keeps the body alive,

creates vitality and energy never experienced before, and one can

feel the difference in as little as 10 minutes. Says Grisé, " We found

in the molecules of the cell, what makes rejuvenation happen " .

According to Dr. Ed. Wagner, it resores mitochondria, the body's

energy producers, and failitates their energy production rather than

kicking what's left of them into high on a temporary basis without

the benefit of restoration. The inability to restore mitochondria, so

frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome.

Dr Wagner, for 35 years a clinical nutritionist, 27 years a

chiropractor, previous owner of four large health food stores in

southern California, and former advisor to Jack LaLanne, knows what's

up in the health industry. He noted early on that people were getting

sicker and were pushing sick cells with products that didn't help

their health in the long term, and he's always searching for new

health products " to see if they do anything inside the body " . He says

that out of all the 1000-plus supplements he has available in his

large health shop, this one does several things that interested him.

He's working out 1-2 hours daily, and working about 12 hours a day.

Using just one or two teaspoons of Prosoteine daily he can now go the

whole day with no other product to boost him, and he has been able to

increase his workout by 30 or 40 percent. He says that because it

tends to correct metabolic syndrome (syndrome X) in which glucose

utilisation is impaired, it slowly corrects prediabetes by ensuring

glucose is once again burned aerobically in the cell. [The ATP energy

increase has implications for natural cellular support during cancer

therapy] In addition, Dr. Wagner mentions fatigue, aches and pains,

depression, and hypoglycemia are all reduced.

Dr. Wolland, a psychiatrist for 34 years and who has

practiced orthomolecular approaches for the last 10, concurs saying

that an overload of chronic stressors leads to chronic fatigue and

low adrenal function in which neurotransmitters are measured to be

very low. In his patients with severe chronic fatigue and depression,

" relief can be obtained right away " .

You'll probably notice a difference right away, but as Red Bull

drinker Mark says, don't exceed the dosage or you will be surprised.

Do not take it in the evening; instead, take it in the afternoon, and

maybe a teaspoon in the morning if you need it.

Prosoteinecontains aloe vera, water, glycerin, potassium

sorbate, (preservative) methyl paraben, (preservative) propyl

paraben, (preservative) orange and lemonade flavour from natural

sources, Talin, which is a natural sweet protein.

Ask your favourite health food store for Prosoteine, the

performance enhancer that will eliminate the need for energy drinks.

Duncan Crow

Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

[Guest guest]

> I think about 30% of people will find this new product interesting as

> it may represent a real threat to the coffee and guarana industry,

> and it's good for you.

<snip>

> Prosoteinecontains aloe vera, water, glycerin, potassium sorbate,

> (preservative) methyl paraben, (preservative) propyl paraben,

> (preservative) orange and lemonade flavour from natural sources,

> Talin, which is a natural sweet protein.

gag!

Duncan, I'm surprised at you...

ingredients #5 and #6 are very toxic... I was interested in trying this

product, but no more...

Are these the *only* ingredients?

> Ask your favourite health food store for Prosoteine, the performance

> enhancer that will eliminate the need for energy drinks.

>

> Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

> Why do they put fillers in something that is supposed to be healthy

> and for health? No need for glycerin (that made Calorad intolerable to

> me)--but most people won't mind it--but proplyene glycol etc?

>

Hi Jill,

Unless they irradiate the food it will spoil without preservatives.

There's no propylene glycol in Prosoteine, and the parabens in it are

on the GRAS list - generally recognized as safe. I realize that

ANYTHING that impairs oxygen delivery to the cells can be a

carcinogen, but ATP increase and increased aerobic burning of

glucose, both of which the product also helps with, have been used as

anti-cancer measures.

ATP increase means better metabolic rate in all the cells; that would

translate to weight loss.

regards,

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

Methyl paraben in deodarants has been implicated in breast cancer.

You don't want to put it on you much less in you. When that

information came out I checked my deodarant and it turns out I picked

the only one in the regular drugstore that doesn't have methyl

parabens. I guess it was instinctive, I always felt it was nontoxic.

That plus, as Saul says, antifreeze. That is not a product for those

who want to get or stay healthy.

> > I think about 30% of people will find this new product

interesting as

> > it may represent a real threat to the coffee and guarana

industry,

> > and it's good for you.

>

> <snip>

>

> > Prosoteinecontains aloe vera, water, glycerin, potassium

sorbate,

> > (preservative) methyl paraben, (preservative) propyl paraben,

> > (preservative) orange and lemonade flavour from natural sources,

> > Talin, which is a natural sweet protein.

>

> gag!

>

> Duncan, I'm surprised at you...

>

> ingredients #5 and #6 are very toxic... I was interested in trying

this

> product, but no more...

>

> Are these the *only* ingredients?

>

> > Ask your favourite health food store for Prosoteine, the

performance

> > enhancer that will eliminate the need for energy drinks.

> >

> > Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

YES! I find it so annoying when they add these things. Why not use

grapeseed as a preservative. Or any of the other prservatives. I

thought the same things. Why glycerine and why all the chemical

preservatives. Very dissappointing. Of course the masses will not

have a clue and will love it.

Donna

http://www.excellentthings.com

jill1313 wrote:

>

> Why do they put fillers in something that is supposed to be healthy

> and for health? No need for glycerin (that made Calorad intolerable

> to me)--but most people won't mind it--but proplyene glycol etc?

>

>

>

>

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

> other alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find

> here are for information and research purposes only. We are people

> sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you

> do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common

> sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By

> joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR

> yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a

> medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care

> provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the

> following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY

> of the message! :

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> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

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> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal

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>

>

> *

[Guest guest]

I can't even find a pure melatonin. Source Naturals has maltitol and

sorbitol, that's just great. The other ones have glycerin capsules

and stearic acid and bla bla bla. Very annoying.

>

> >

> > Why do they put fillers in something that is supposed to be

healthy

> > and for health? No need for glycerin (that made Calorad

intolerable

> > to me)--but most people won't mind it--but proplyene glycol etc?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative

therapies, and

> > other alternative self-help subjects.

> >

> > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

> >

> > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will

find

> > here are for information and research purposes only. We are

people

> > sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found

here, you

> > do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common

> > sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own

actions. By

> > joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR

> > yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a

> > medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care

> > provider.

> >

> > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the

> > following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> > DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or

BODY

> > of the message! :

> >

> > oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

> >

> > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to

normal

> > mode.

> >

> >

> > *

[Guest guest]

> Methyl Paraben and Propyl Paraben I have doubts about, and nitrites

> and nitrates are really bad (to my knowledge).

>

I understand, Dave;

Refer to Otto warburg's work. The two-time Nobel Laureate provd that

anything that reduces oxygen delivery to the cells can be a

carcinogen. But the product actually increases aerobic burning of

glucos, and increases ATP production. Both f these methods have been

used to treat cancer.

So, given the small amounts involved, and the fact the company is

still loking for an adequate natural preservative, I'm willing to

give it a go.

Nitrates and nitrites are knwn to be quenched with antioxidants;

perhaps the parabens are as well

Duncan

[Guest guest]

>

> > Prosoteinecontains aloe vera, water, glycerin, potassium

> > sorbate, (preservative) methyl paraben, (preservative) propyl

> > paraben, (preservative) orange and lemonade flavour from natural

> > sources, Talin, which is a natural sweet protein.

>

> gag!

>

> Duncan, I'm surprised at you...

>

> ingredients #5 and #6 are very toxic... I was interested in trying

> this product, but no more...

>

> Are these the *only* ingredients?

Yes, and Prosoteine, the active ingredient, is a newly-discovered

protein that increases energy.

Refer to Otto warburg's work. The two-time Nobel Laureate proved that

anything that reduces oxygen delivery to the cells can be a

carcinogen. But the product actually increases aerobic burning of

glucose and increases ATP production. Both of these methods have been

used to treat cancer (Koch with his quinones that increased ATP)

So, given the small amounts of parabens involved, and the fact the

company is still looking for an adequate natural preservative, I'm

willing to give it a go. Then again I also I drink coffee and tea,

and beer, and when I visit the restroom at the pub I probably inhale

more benzene than I'd ever get in a teaspoon of prosoteine.

Duncan

[Guest guest]

Has anyone tried this stuff? Why do I feel it may well be like my last

great disappointment in life, a supplement for " Male Enhancement " . And I

never did get my money back!

Bill

Prosoteine, an energy nutrient without the jitters

I think about 30% of people will find this new product interesting as

it may represent a real threat to the coffee and guarana industry,

and it's good for you.

Body Electric

One of the biggest challenges many of us face every day is simply

avoiding feeling drained of energy. Chronic stressors from every

quarter of our fast-paced and toxic world impair our energy

production, so people have been drinking neurostimulants such as

coffee, guarana and until recently, ephedra. A huge emerging energy

industry based on stimulants has gone from $2 billion to $5 billion

in the last two years; Starbucks alone has seen revenues grow from

$2.6 billion to $4 billion, because many of us are willing to spend

$10 a day to get a jolt from marginally healthy to somewhat toxic

neurostimulants that do not enhance either mental clarity or

performance. Now we no longer need to justify that kind of edge.

A new product, Protoseine, a vegetarian performance enhancer

that contains no stimulants at all, launched on October 21 2004. This

new player delivers energy, mental clarity and vitality, and it

offers cumulative long term health benefits by nourishing our bodies

on a cellular level. This safe product will capture a good portion of

the energy (Red Bull) market for a cost similar to just a couple of

cups of coffee per day. It will attract millions of baby boomers who

want to look and feel great and live longer because it uniquely

addresses their anti-aging needs. It will probably also capture the

fitness market because it increases work; this instantly makes

Prosoteine the hottest amino acid product on the market. It will give

the jitters all right, but not to the public, to the energy market

giants.

A few years ago, Michel Grisé, legendary Canadian formulator of

Calorad, the hugely popular collagen-based, liquid supplement from

Essentially Yours Industries, began to investigate vegetarian sources

for Calorad's collagen-like protein. During the course of developing

the new plant protein, his team discovered a far superior and more

pure amino acid chain than any protein from an animal source.

Prosoteine is an entirely new protein that keeps the body alive,

creates vitality and energy never experienced before, and one can

feel the difference in as little as 10 minutes. Says Grisé, " We found

in the molecules of the cell, what makes rejuvenation happen " .

According to Dr. Ed. Wagner, it resores mitochondria, the body's

energy producers, and failitates their energy production rather than

kicking what's left of them into high on a temporary basis without

the benefit of restoration. The inability to restore mitochondria, so

frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome.

Dr Wagner, for 35 years a clinical nutritionist, 27 years a

chiropractor, previous owner of four large health food stores in

southern California, and former advisor to Jack LaLanne, knows what's

up in the health industry. He noted early on that people were getting

sicker and were pushing sick cells with products that didn't help

their health in the long term, and he's always searching for new

health products " to see if they do anything inside the body " . He says

that out of all the 1000-plus supplements he has available in his

large health shop, this one does several things that interested him.

He's working out 1-2 hours daily, and working about 12 hours a day.

Using just one or two teaspoons of Prosoteine daily he can now go the

whole day with no other product to boost him, and he has been able to

increase his workout by 30 or 40 percent. He says that because it

tends to correct metabolic syndrome (syndrome X) in which glucose

utilisation is impaired, it slowly corrects prediabetes by ensuring

glucose is once again burned aerobically in the cell. [The ATP energy

increase has implications for natural cellular support during cancer

therapy] In addition, Dr. Wagner mentions fatigue, aches and pains,

depression, and hypoglycemia are all reduced.

Dr. Wolland, a psychiatrist for 34 years and who has

practiced orthomolecular approaches for the last 10, concurs saying

that an overload of chronic stressors leads to chronic fatigue and

low adrenal function in which neurotransmitters are measured to be

very low. In his patients with severe chronic fatigue and depression,

" relief can be obtained right away " .

You'll probably notice a difference right away, but as Red Bull

drinker Mark says, don't exceed the dosage or you will be surprised.

Do not take it in the evening; instead, take it in the afternoon, and

maybe a teaspoon in the morning if you need it.

Prosoteinecontains aloe vera, water, glycerin, potassium

sorbate, (preservative) methyl paraben, (preservative) propyl

paraben, (preservative) orange and lemonade flavour from natural

sources, Talin, which is a natural sweet protein.

Ask your favourite health food store for Prosoteine, the

performance enhancer that will eliminate the need for energy drinks.

Duncan Crow

Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a

substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

[Guest guest]

Bill,

I am optimistic that it can work as claimed, but I always like to see studies.

For instance, before I decided to try Carnosine, I read ALL the studies on

http://www.protein.bio.msu.su/biokhimiya/ having to do with Carnosine. It took

awhile (and I had to look up more than a couple terms in order to understand

what they were talking about, www.onelook.com is a great place to do so), but it

was very much worth it IMO.

Carnosine was AMAZINGLY effective at reducing muscle soreness due to lactic acid

buildup (almost to the point of no muscle soreness). I found, after some

testing on my part, that ~2 1/2 grams 45 minutes before exercise was the lowest

effective dose for to achieve this for myself (6'2 " , 195lbs, 37 years old,

excellent physical condition).

While I cannot comment on any of the other benefits of Carnosine

(anti-neoplastic, etc.) I can certainly attest to it's ability to keep you from

getting sore from a hard aerobic workout.

Because of this, I would be very willing to give Prosoteine a chance (it sounds

like an amino acid to me). I'd rather get it in it's pure form (perhaps vacuum

sealed if shelf life is a concern) rather than with preservatives, but that's

not a huge concern to me.

My understanding is it's not yet on the market, I'm sure Duncan will let us know

when it's available.

Best,

Dave

Prosoteine, an energy nutrient without the jitters

I think about 30% of people will find this new product interesting as

it may represent a real threat to the coffee and guarana industry,

and it's good for you.

Body Electric

One of the biggest challenges many of us face every day is simply

avoiding feeling drained of energy. Chronic stressors from every

quarter of our fast-paced and toxic world impair our energy

production, so people have been drinking neurostimulants such as

coffee, guarana and until recently, ephedra. A huge emerging energy

industry based on stimulants has gone from $2 billion to $5 billion

in the last two years; Starbucks alone has seen revenues grow from

$2.6 billion to $4 billion, because many of us are willing to spend

$10 a day to get a jolt from marginally healthy to somewhat toxic

neurostimulants that do not enhance either mental clarity or

performance. Now we no longer need to justify that kind of edge.

A new product, Protoseine, a vegetarian performance enhancer

that contains no stimulants at all, launched on October 21 2004. This

new player delivers energy, mental clarity and vitality, and it

offers cumulative long term health benefits by nourishing our bodies

on a cellular level. This safe product will capture a good portion of

the energy (Red Bull) market for a cost similar to just a couple of

cups of coffee per day. It will attract millions of baby boomers who

want to look and feel great and live longer because it uniquely

addresses their anti-aging needs. It will probably also capture the

fitness market because it increases work; this instantly makes

Prosoteine the hottest amino acid product on the market. It will give

the jitters all right, but not to the public, to the energy market

giants.

A few years ago, Michel Grisé, legendary Canadian formulator of

Calorad, the hugely popular collagen-based, liquid supplement from

Essentially Yours Industries, began to investigate vegetarian sources

for Calorad's collagen-like protein. During the course of developing

the new plant protein, his team discovered a far superior and more

pure amino acid chain than any protein from an animal source.

Prosoteine is an entirely new protein that keeps the body alive,

creates vitality and energy never experienced before, and one can

feel the difference in as little as 10 minutes. Says Grisé, " We found

in the molecules of the cell, what makes rejuvenation happen " .

According to Dr. Ed. Wagner, it resores mitochondria, the body's

energy producers, and failitates their energy production rather than

kicking what's left of them into high on a temporary basis without

the benefit of restoration. The inability to restore mitochondria, so

frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome.

Dr Wagner, for 35 years a clinical nutritionist, 27 years a

chiropractor, previous owner of four large health food stores in

southern California, and former advisor to Jack LaLanne, knows what's

up in the health industry. He noted early on that people were getting

sicker and were pushing sick cells with products that didn't help

their health in the long term, and he's always searching for new

health products " to see if they do anything inside the body " . He says

that out of all the 1000-plus supplements he has available in his

large health shop, this one does several things that interested him.

He's working out 1-2 hours daily, and working about 12 hours a day.

Using just one or two teaspoons of Prosoteine daily he can now go the

whole day with no other product to boost him, and he has been able to

increase his workout by 30 or 40 percent. He says that because it

tends to correct metabolic syndrome (syndrome X) in which glucose

utilisation is impaired, it slowly corrects prediabetes by ensuring

glucose is once again burned aerobically in the cell. [The ATP energy

increase has implications for natural cellular support during cancer

therapy] In addition, Dr. Wagner mentions fatigue, aches and pains,

depression, and hypoglycemia are all reduced.

Dr. Wolland, a psychiatrist for 34 years and who has

practiced orthomolecular approaches for the last 10, concurs saying

that an overload of chronic stressors leads to chronic fatigue and

low adrenal function in which neurotransmitters are measured to be

very low. In his patients with severe chronic fatigue and depression,

" relief can be obtained right away " .

You'll probably notice a difference right away, but as Red Bull

drinker Mark says, don't exceed the dosage or you will be surprised.

Do not take it in the evening; instead, take it in the afternoon, and

maybe a teaspoon in the morning if you need it.

Prosoteinecontains aloe vera, water, glycerin, potassium

sorbate, (preservative) methyl paraben, (preservative) propyl

paraben, (preservative) orange and lemonade flavour from natural

sources, Talin, which is a natural sweet protein.

Ask your favourite health food store for Prosoteine, the

performance enhancer that will eliminate the need for energy drinks.

Duncan Crow

Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a

substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

[Guest guest]

Ok,

Did a search in the natiaonal library of medical journals. If any clinical

trial, published medical journal, university study has ever been done of

this " Prosoteine " , it would be in there. So can someone give me the link to

the clinical data. or is this a brand name of something else. I need back

up! Data, Support. ETC!

[Guest guest]

AND....

How stupid do you have to be to believe a web posting that someone wrote

without doing the research before you say " Wow, where can I buy it? "

I guess you watch and buy all the informercials.

Sorry to be so harsh - but please live with one eye open at least.

[Guest guest]

Hi:

The product can be ordered online from:

http://www.drugfreeoptions.com/edisplay.php?p=prosoteine

And costs $33.00 per bottle. I'll order some after I hear back on the list

of another's experience or I can find valid case histories or studies on

the matter. Many preservatives actually prevent cancer in some studied, by

the way, including BHA and BHT.

At 10:25 AM 12/23/2004, you wrote:

>AND....

>How stupid do you have to be to believe a web posting that someone wrote

>without doing the research before you say " Wow, where can I buy it? "

>

>I guess you watch and buy all the informercials.

>Sorry to be so harsh - but please live with one eye open at least.

>

>

>

>

>Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

>circumstances should any information published here be considered a

>substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

>

[Guest guest]

| AND....

| How stupid do you have to be to believe a web posting that someone wrote

| without doing the research before you say " Wow, where can I buy it? "

Good question. As the man said: " You pays youse money and you takes youse

chances " .

For myself, I'll try something without studies for a short period just to see if

there's some " magical " effect, while keeping a close watch on my general health.

If I'm feeling good (normally the case) and keep getting the supposed benefit, I

keep using it. If something comes up in the literature (as it did with Co-Q-10,

which I didn't take for long as I couldn't justify the expense), I'll stop

taking it. Guess I'm just a rash, brash, caution to the winds kinda guy, what

can I say.

BTW, Prosoteine looks like it's just a brand name, Talin is probably the active

ingredient. They may have done a study and found it helps your mitochondria.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & lr= & c2coff=1 & as_qdr=all & q=Talin+mitochondria

I admit I have some sympathy for the people trying to bring this to market, it's

got to be incredibly difficult given that you can't patent an amino acid; and as

soon as you start to have some success, you immediately invite tremendous

competition. But that's capitalism for you.

It would probably be a better idea for the people getting ready to market this

stuff to offer it to the more discriminating consumers in a pill form.

Assuming of course, it works as touted.

Regards,

Dave

Re: Prosoteine, an energy nutrient without the jitters

|

| AND....

| How stupid do you have to be to believe a web posting that someone wrote

| without doing the research before you say " Wow, where can I buy it? "

|

| I guess you watch and buy all the informercials.

| Sorry to be so harsh - but please live with one eye open at least.

|

|

|

|

| Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

|

[Guest guest]

Sounded like a Spam to me!

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The S2A Security Group

Provider & Instructor

EP/D5

Personal Protection/Security

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810-599-9625

Re: Prosoteine, an energy nutrient without the jitters

>

> Ok,

> Did a search in the natiaonal library of medical journals. If any clinical

> trial, published medical journal, university study has ever been done of

> this " Prosoteine " , it would be in there. So can someone give me the link

to

> the clinical data. or is this a brand name of something else. I need back

> up! Data, Support. ETC!

>

>

>

>

> Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a

substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the

owner

>

[Guest guest]

>>> Prosoteinecontains aloe vera, water, glycerin, potassium

>>> sorbate, (preservative) methyl paraben, (preservative) propyl

>>> paraben, (preservative) orange and lemonade flavour from natural

>>> sources, Talin, which is a natural sweet protein.

>> gag!

>>

>> Duncan, I'm surprised at you...

>>

>> ingredients #5 and #6 are very toxic... I was interested in trying

>> this product, but no more...

>>

>> Are these the *only* ingredients?

> Yes, and Prosoteine, the active ingredient, is a newly-discovered

> protein that increases energy.

Ok... well, I didn't see 'Prosoteine' listed as an ingredient, that's

why I asked 'Are these (meaning the listed ones) the *only* ingredients.

So, you are saying that there is an ingredianet that was not in that

list, and that that ingredient is called 'prosoteine'?

What is the *source* of prosoteine? Is it the 'Talin'? Where does that

come from?

> So, given the small amounts of parabens involved, and the fact the

> company is still looking for an adequate natural preservative, I'm

> willing to give it a go. Then again I also I drink coffee and tea,

> and beer, and when I visit the restroom at the pub I probably inhale

> more benzene than I'd ever get in a teaspoon of prosoteine.

Well, you are correct that we get a lot of carcinogens from a lot of

different sources, and while it *might* be true that I may get more just

from going to a public bathroom, I still have an aversion to knowingly

putting anything into my body that contains these things.

Anyway, I look forward to your reply, and may give it a try anyway.

thanks

[Guest guest]

Yerba Mate tea will do the same thing much cheaper.--

- In , Duncan Crow

<duncancrow@s...> wrote:

> I think about 30% of people will find this new product interesting as

> it may represent a real threat to the coffee and guarana industry,

> and it's good for you.

>

> Body Electric

>

> One of the biggest challenges many of us face every day is simply

> avoiding feeling drained of energy. Chronic stressors from every

> quarter of our fast-paced and toxic world impair our energy

> production, so people have been drinking neurostimulants such as

> coffee, guarana and until recently, ephedra. A huge emerging energy

> industry based on stimulants has gone from $2 billion to $5 billion

> in the last two years; Starbucks alone has seen revenues grow from

> $2.6 billion to $4 billion, because many of us are willing to spend

> $10 a day to get a jolt from marginally healthy to somewhat toxic

> neurostimulants that do not enhance either mental clarity or

> performance. Now we no longer need to justify that kind of edge.

>

> A new product, Protoseine, a vegetarian performance enhancer

> that contains no stimulants at all, launched on October 21 2004. This

> new player delivers energy, mental clarity and vitality, and it

> offers cumulative long term health benefits by nourishing our bodies

> on a cellular level. This safe product will capture a good portion of

> the energy (Red Bull) market for a cost similar to just a couple of

> cups of coffee per day. It will attract millions of baby boomers who

> want to look and feel great and live longer because it uniquely

> addresses their anti-aging needs. It will probably also capture the

> fitness market because it increases work; this instantly makes

> Prosoteine the hottest amino acid product on the market. It will give

> the jitters all right, but not to the public, to the energy market

> giants.

>

> A few years ago, Michel Grisé, legendary Canadian formulator of

> Calorad, the hugely popular collagen-based, liquid supplement from

> Essentially Yours Industries, began to investigate vegetarian sources

> for Calorad's collagen-like protein. During the course of developing

> the new plant protein, his team discovered a far superior and more

> pure amino acid chain than any protein from an animal source.

> Prosoteine is an entirely new protein that keeps the body alive,

> creates vitality and energy never experienced before, and one can

> feel the difference in as little as 10 minutes. Says Grisé, " We found

> in the molecules of the cell, what makes rejuvenation happen " .

> According to Dr. Ed. Wagner, it resores mitochondria, the body's

> energy producers, and failitates their energy production rather than

> kicking what's left of them into high on a temporary basis without

> the benefit of restoration. The inability to restore mitochondria, so

> frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome.

>

> Dr Wagner, for 35 years a clinical nutritionist, 27 years a

> chiropractor, previous owner of four large health food stores in

> southern California, and former advisor to Jack LaLanne, knows what's

> up in the health industry. He noted early on that people were getting

> sicker and were pushing sick cells with products that didn't help

> their health in the long term, and he's always searching for new

> health products " to see if they do anything inside the body " . He says

> that out of all the 1000-plus supplements he has available in his

> large health shop, this one does several things that interested him.

> He's working out 1-2 hours daily, and working about 12 hours a day.

> Using just one or two teaspoons of Prosoteine daily he can now go the

> whole day with no other product to boost him, and he has been able to

> increase his workout by 30 or 40 percent. He says that because it

> tends to correct metabolic syndrome (syndrome X) in which glucose

> utilisation is impaired, it slowly corrects prediabetes by ensuring

> glucose is once again burned aerobically in the cell. [The ATP energy

> increase has implications for natural cellular support during cancer

> therapy] In addition, Dr. Wagner mentions fatigue, aches and pains,

> depression, and hypoglycemia are all reduced.

>

> Dr. Wolland, a psychiatrist for 34 years and who has

> practiced orthomolecular approaches for the last 10, concurs saying

> that an overload of chronic stressors leads to chronic fatigue and

> low adrenal function in which neurotransmitters are measured to be

> very low. In his patients with severe chronic fatigue and depression,

> " relief can be obtained right away " .

>

> You'll probably notice a difference right away, but as Red Bull

> drinker Mark says, don't exceed the dosage or you will be surprised.

> Do not take it in the evening; instead, take it in the afternoon, and

> maybe a teaspoon in the morning if you need it.

>

> Prosoteinecontains aloe vera, water, glycerin, potassium

> sorbate, (preservative) methyl paraben, (preservative) propyl

> paraben, (preservative) orange and lemonade flavour from natural

> sources, Talin, which is a natural sweet protein.

>

> Ask your favourite health food store for Prosoteine, the

> performance enhancer that will eliminate the need for energy drinks.

>

> Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

> Yerba Mate tea will do the same thing much cheaper.--

I'd be interested but I didn't turn up information on Yerba Mate that

indicates mitochondrial repair and ATP increase. Without that it's a

tonic, maybe a good one but just a tonic.

Duncan

[Guest guest]

> I'd be interested but I didn't turn up information on Yerba Mate

Here you go Duncan:

http://stenulson.net/althealth/yerbamat.txt

I can't wait to see what the next big thing is that you're going to

promote to the groups to buy from you...

>

> > Yerba Mate tea will do the same thing much cheaper.--

>

> I'd be interested but I didn't turn up information on Yerba Mate

that

> indicates mitochondrial repair and ATP increase. Without that

it's a

> tonic, maybe a good one but just a tonic.

>

> Duncan

[Guest guest]

> > I'd be interested but I didn't turn up information on Yerba Mate

>

> Here you go Duncan:

> http://stenulson.net/althealth/yerbamat.txt

Cyberweight,

I tried to find references to support your claim that yerba mate

increases ATP prduction in the mitochondria, but found none. That

kind of information did not appear on an internet search either, and

although there's plenty to indicate the tea contains a gentle form of

caffeine (a neurostimulant) and it is nutritious, I already have

nutritious products.

>

> I can't wait to see what the next big thing is that you're going to

> promote to the groups to buy from you...

That, plus the sarcastic comment above, leads me to believe that you

missed the most important point in the article -- the importance of

addressing energy levels by increasing ATP production in the

mitochondria. This will allow energy increase that can probably be

useful in mitochondrial disorders

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en & q=Mitochondrial+disorder & btnG=Google

+Search & meta= which are serious and often deadly. There hasn't even

been a treatment so the prognosis for these disorders ranges in

severity from progressive weakness to death.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/mitochondrial_myopathy/mitochondria

l_myopathy.htm

(I have however succeeded in stopping inclusion body mysositis, one

of the mitochondrial disorders for which there is also no treatment

or cure, without Prosoteine.)

The fact that Prosoteine increases ATP energy production in the

mitochondria is also important for the reason that when ATP is

elevated cancer often goes away. ATP increase has been used as a

cancer therapy; check out the work by Dr. Koch for details.

You can find a summary article, Nobel laureates expose cancer as a

metabolic hiccup, here:

http://zeek.ca/4u//article.php?sid=174

If you take a look at thos links I expect you'll soon understand why

I'm optimistic about it. Not bad for a food

Now, back to the Yerba Mate... when you wrote:

> > > Yerba Mate tea will do the same thing much cheaper.--

> >

I replied that I was interested:

> > I'd be interested but I didn't turn up information on Yerba Mate

> > that

> > indicates mitochondrial repair and ATP increase. Without that

> >it's a

> > tonic, maybe a good one but just a tonic.

and I'd still like to know if such a reference exists..

regards,

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

It seems like you are always hyping something - which is your right

of course - but to dress this energy drink up in some sort of self-

righteous claim as the " next big thing " is mis-leading and smacks of

hucksterism ( " It will probably also capture the fitness market

because it increases work; this instantly makes Prosoteine the

hottest amino acid product on the market " - that's laying it on a

little thick now, wouldn't you say?).

I wasn't saying Yerba Mate addressed ATP levels in the cell - my

point was it was a very important substance in it's own right,

different but more then just " another tonic " as you called it in a

previous post.

Your claim that " The inability to restore mitochondria, so

frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome "

implying that only this new " drink " restores Mitochondria is just

plain false. Either you don't know or you don't think anyone else

knows the role CoQ10, NAD, acetyl-l-carnitine and lipoic acid (among

others) play in maintaining the ability of the mitochondria to

produce high energy compounds such as ATP. This is nothing new at

all. Spend any amount of time researching this subject and this will

become apparent almost immediately.

Here, I have a miracle compound for you - it is directly related to

adenosine triphosphate (ATP)(you know - the " universal energy

molecule " used by every cell in our bodies, the one you keep talking

about), not only is it commonly used to increase one's ability to

expend energy (workout), it is being studied as a supplement that

may help with diseases affecting the neuromuscular system, such as

muscular dystrophy (MD), it may have therapeutic applications in

aging populations for wasting syndromes, muscle atrophy, fatigue,

gyrate atrophy, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease and other

brain pathologies. And you can buy it over the counter. What is it?

Answer – Creatine, as in creatine monohydrate, creatine citrate,

creatine phosphate and creatine-magnesium chelate (though creatine

monohydrate is the most common form).

Go to the end of this article for all the references (studies)

supporting what I just said:

http://bodybuilding.about.com/cs/getbig/a/aa091503.htm

Kind of makes your energy drink seem a little pedestrian, heh? More

importantly, can you show me one peer reviewed study done by an

accredited research institute or other such entity for this

substance you are promoting? Just one? Something besides " We found

in the molecules of the cell, what makes rejuvenation happen " . How

about an actual scientific study validating your claims?

I try to stay out this stuff with you because I figure you need to

make a living like everyone else but I lost it this time when you

told V he better hurry up and jump on this before it is too

late...to V's credit he said he thought it prudent to wait for more

information...I think I will do the same…

[Guest guest]

>

> Duncan,

> It seems like you are always hyping something - which is your right

> of course - but to dress this energy drink up in some sort of self-

> righteous claim as the " next big thing " is mis-leading and smacks

of

> hucksterism ( " It will probably also capture the fitness market

> because it increases work; this instantly makes Prosoteine the

> hottest amino acid product on the market " - that's laying it on a

> little thick now, wouldn't you say?).

No, because it's true.

>

> I wasn't saying Yerba Mate addressed ATP levels in the cell - my

> point was it was a very important substance in it's own right,

> different but more then just " another tonic " as you called it in a

> previous post.

OK.

>

> Your claim that " The inability to restore mitochondria, so

> frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome "

> implying that only this new " drink " restores Mitochondria is just

> plain false. Either you don't know or you don't think anyone else

> knows the role CoQ10, NAD, acetyl-l-carnitine and lipoic acid

(among

> others) play in maintaining the ability of the mitochondria to

> produce high energy compounds such as ATP. This is nothing new at

> all. Spend any amount of time researching this subject and this

will

> become apparent almost immediately.

The difference is that those compounds are useful in the Krebs cycle;

they help to recycle the ATP but they do not restore the

mitochondria. Prosoteine restores the mitochondria, importantly

enough, inclluding the ability to produce more ATP rather than

recycling it faster.

>

> Here, I have a miracle compound for you - it is directly related to

> adenosine triphosphate (ATP)(you know - the " universal energy

> molecule " used by every cell in our bodies, the one you keep

talking

> about), not only is it commonly used to increase one's ability to

> expend energy (workout), it is being studied as a supplement that

> may help with diseases affecting the neuromuscular system, such as

> muscular dystrophy (MD), it may have therapeutic applications in

> aging populations for wasting syndromes, muscle atrophy, fatigue,

> gyrate atrophy, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease and other

> brain pathologies. And you can buy it over the counter. What is it?

>

> Answer – Creatine, as in creatine monohydrate, creatine citrate,

> creatine phosphate and creatine-magnesium chelate (though creatine

> monohydrate is the most common form).

Creatine improves the energy cycle during workouts; it's not so usful

at rest, and it does not restore mitochondria. Big difference. See,

if the things you refer to actually increased ATP levels we'd be

using them to reverse cancer, like Dr. Koch did with his quinone

injections.

Here, I cobbled up an article on mitochondrial disorders that should

interest you, and yes, CoQ10 is mentioned as a useful supplement too.

regards,

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

>Creatine improves the energy cycle during workouts; it's not so

>usful at rest

First off, in normal conditions at rest the body is able to produce

all the ATP it needs. In stressful conditions,high intensity

workouts or diease that changes but the science establishing

Creatine's ability to replenish ATP is *very* well documented and

not something I am going to rehash here. Anyone can do an internet

search and verify this.

>See if the things you refer to actually increased ATP levels we'd

>be using them to reverse cancer, like Dr. Koch did with his quinone

>injections.

Yes it is true Warburg *speculated* (in the 50s) that a major

distinction between normal cells and cancer cells is a reduced rate

of respiration in cancer cells but to go from that to the above

statement is wild conjecture on your part (show me the science).

That's not to say the link between mitochondria and cancer is not

being studied - it is (first thing that comes to mind was the recent

conference at the Beatson Institute for Cancer Research Workshop in

Corinthian, Glasgow at the beginning of October of this year)(to

quote their brochure - they were meeting to create groups focusing

on the relationship between mitochondria and cancer, in particular:

apoptosis, mitochondrial tumor suppressors and mitochondrial

pharmacology.). Nothing said about an energy drink though.

I know there is a view that damage to mtDNA (from ROS) might lead to

the accumulation of abnormal bases and such cumulative damage is

hypothesized to be a factor in aging, neurological degeneration, and

possibly cancer. Then again, other, fairly recent studies have shown

mitochondrial enzyme activities associated with DNA repair (in

short, the mitochondria can repair itself). This is a far, far more

complicated subject then your claims of a cancer cure would imply.

> Creatine…it does not restore mitochondria

They are not missing, what is there to restore? Gottfried Schatz

proved that what was thought to be disappearing mitochondria in

yeast cells (in cells grown without oxygen gas) was in fact

mitochondria that had lost their cytochromes (and several other

proteins) making them more difficult to detect (via electron

microscopy). Perhaps I am not understanding your syntax here but I

haven't seen anything published or researched that

documents " restoring mitochondria " .

Look, your drink may be tasty (like the " tasty wheat " in the Matrix

movie perhaps...), it may even give you energy but your claims of

how it works are just not believable to anyone who gives even a

cursory attention to science. I find it interesting that in the

process of posting replies to my statements you conveniently left

out my request for the research backing your claims. Can I assume

you don't have any - or are you going to tell me studies are being

organized right now but it is too early to report anything?

You should be happy - you have gotten more exposure for your drink

then if I have had kept quiet - which is what I normally do when you

start pushing some new supplement or such (isn't it about time to

start promoting LifeForce's Body Balance again?).

>

> >

> > Duncan,

> > It seems like you are always hyping something - which is your

right

> > of course - but to dress this energy drink up in some sort of

self-

> > righteous claim as the " next big thing " is mis-leading and

smacks

> of

> > hucksterism ( " It will probably also capture the fitness market

> > because it increases work; this instantly makes Prosoteine the

> > hottest amino acid product on the market " - that's laying it on

a

> > little thick now, wouldn't you say?).

>

> No, because it's true.

>

> >

> > I wasn't saying Yerba Mate addressed ATP levels in the cell - my

> > point was it was a very important substance in it's own right,

> > different but more then just " another tonic " as you called it in

a

> > previous post.

>

> OK.

>

> >

> > Your claim that " The inability to restore mitochondria, so

> > frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome "

> > implying that only this new " drink " restores Mitochondria is

just

> > plain false. Either you don't know or you don't think anyone

else

> > knows the role CoQ10, NAD, acetyl-l-carnitine and lipoic acid

> (among

> > others) play in maintaining the ability of the mitochondria to

> > produce high energy compounds such as ATP. This is nothing new

at

> > all. Spend any amount of time researching this subject and this

> will

> > become apparent almost immediately.

>

> The difference is that those compounds are useful in the Krebs

cycle;

> they help to recycle the ATP but they do not restore the

> mitochondria. Prosoteine restores the mitochondria, importantly

> enough, inclluding the ability to produce more ATP rather than

> recycling it faster.

>

> >

> > Here, I have a miracle compound for you - it is directly related

to

> > adenosine triphosphate (ATP)(you know - the " universal energy

> > molecule " used by every cell in our bodies, the one you keep

> talking

> > about), not only is it commonly used to increase one's ability

to

> > expend energy (workout), it is being studied as a supplement

that

> > may help with diseases affecting the neuromuscular system, such

as

> > muscular dystrophy (MD), it may have therapeutic applications in

> > aging populations for wasting syndromes, muscle atrophy,

fatigue,

> > gyrate atrophy, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease and

other

> > brain pathologies. And you can buy it over the counter. What is

it?

> >

> > Answer – Creatine, as in creatine monohydrate, creatine citrate,

> > creatine phosphate and creatine-magnesium chelate (though

creatine

> > monohydrate is the most common form).

>

> Creatine improves the energy cycle during workouts; it's not so

usful

> at rest, and it does not restore mitochondria. Big difference.

See,

> if the things you refer to actually increased ATP levels we'd be

> using them to reverse cancer, like Dr. Koch did with his quinone

> injections.

>

> Here, I cobbled up an article on mitochondrial disorders that

should

> interest you, and yes, CoQ10 is mentioned as a useful supplement

too.

>

> regards,

>

> Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

Hi,

This is a place to exchange health information, and to help

ourselves and other heal. This is not a place to deal with

emotional issues that you have amongst yourselves. You

two need to take this rivalry outside of the group.

Many Blessings,

Whitneay T. Vanwells,

-- Re: Prosoteine, an energy nutrient

without the jitters

>Creatine improves the energy cycle during workouts; it's not so

>usful at rest

First off, in normal conditions at rest the body is able to produce

all the ATP it needs. In stressful conditions,high intensity

workouts or diease that changes but the science establishing

Creatine's ability to replenish ATP is *very* well documented and

not something I am going to rehash here. Anyone can do an internet

search and verify this.

>See if the things you refer to actually increased ATP levels we'd

>be using them to reverse cancer, like Dr. Koch did with his quinone

>injections.

Yes it is true Warburg *speculated* (in the 50s) that a major

distinction between normal cells and cancer cells is a reduced rate

of respiration in cancer cells but to go from that to the above

statement is wild conjecture on your part (show me the science).

That's not to say the link between mitochondria and cancer is not

being studied - it is (first thing that comes to mind was the recent

conference at the Beatson Institute for Cancer Research Workshop in

Corinthian, Glasgow at the beginning of October of this year)(to

quote their brochure - they were meeting to create groups focusing

on the relationship between mitochondria and cancer, in particular:

apoptosis, mitochondrial tumor suppressors and mitochondrial

pharmacology.). Nothing said about an energy drink though.

I know there is a view that damage to mtDNA (from ROS) might lead to

the accumulation of abnormal bases and such cumulative damage is

hypothesized to be a factor in aging, neurological degeneration, and

possibly cancer. Then again, other, fairly recent studies have shown

mitochondrial enzyme activities associated with DNA repair (in

short, the mitochondria can repair itself). This is a far, far more

complicated subject then your claims of a cancer cure would imply.

> Creatine…it does not restore mitochondria

They are not missing, what is there to restore? Gottfried Schatz

proved that what was thought to be disappearing mitochondria in

yeast cells (in cells grown without oxygen gas) was in fact

mitochondria that had lost their cytochromes (and several other

proteins) making them more difficult to detect (via electron

microscopy). Perhaps I am not understanding your syntax here but I

haven't seen anything published or researched that

documents " restoring mitochondria " .

Look, your drink may be tasty (like the " tasty wheat " in the Matrix

movie perhaps...), it may even give you energy but your claims of

how it works are just not believable to anyone who gives even a

cursory attention to science. I find it interesting that in the

process of posting replies to my statements you conveniently left

out my request for the research backing your claims. Can I assume

you don't have any - or are you going to tell me studies are being

organized right now but it is too early to report anything?

You should be happy - you have gotten more exposure for your drink

then if I have had kept quiet - which is what I normally do when you

start pushing some new supplement or such (isn't it about time to

start promoting LifeForce's Body Balance again?).

>

> >

> > Duncan,

> > It seems like you are always hyping something - which is your

right

> > of course - but to dress this energy drink up in some sort of

self-

> > righteous claim as the " next big thing " is mis-leading and

smacks

> of

> > hucksterism ( " It will probably also capture the fitness market

> > because it increases work; this instantly makes Prosoteine the

> > hottest amino acid product on the market " - that's laying it on

a

> > little thick now, wouldn't you say?).

>

> No, because it's true.

>

> >

> > I wasn't saying Yerba Mate addressed ATP levels in the cell - my

> > point was it was a very important substance in it's own right,

> > different but more then just " another tonic " as you called it in

a

> > previous post.

>

> OK.

>

> >

> > Your claim that " The inability to restore mitochondria, so

> > frustrating to nutritionists in the past, has been overcome "

> > implying that only this new " drink " restores Mitochondria is

just

> > plain false. Either you don't know or you don't think anyone

else

> > knows the role CoQ10, NAD, acetyl-l-carnitine and lipoic acid

> (among

> > others) play in maintaining the ability of the mitochondria to

> > produce high energy compounds such as ATP. This is nothing new

at

> > all. Spend any amount of time researching this subject and this

> will

> > become apparent almost immediately.

>

> The difference is that those compounds are useful in the Krebs

cycle;

> they help to recycle the ATP but they do not restore the

> mitochondria. Prosoteine restores the mitochondria, importantly

> enough, inclluding the ability to produce more ATP rather than

> recycling it faster.

>

> >

> > Here, I have a miracle compound for you - it is directly related

to

> > adenosine triphosphate (ATP)(you know - the " universal energy

> > molecule " used by every cell in our bodies, the one you keep

> talking

> > about), not only is it commonly used to increase one's ability

to

> > expend energy (workout), it is being studied as a supplement

that

> > may help with diseases affecting the neuromuscular system, such

as

> > muscular dystrophy (MD), it may have therapeutic applications in

> > aging populations for wasting syndromes, muscle atrophy,

fatigue,

> > gyrate atrophy, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease and

other

> > brain pathologies. And you can buy it over the counter. What is

it?

> >

> > Answer – Creatine, as in creatine monohydrate, creatine citrate,

> > creatine phosphate and creatine-magnesium chelate (though

creatine

> > monohydrate is the most common form).

>

> Creatine improves the energy cycle during workouts; it's not so

usful

> at rest, and it does not restore mitochondria. Big difference.

See,

> if the things you refer to actually increased ATP levels we'd be

> using them to reverse cancer, like Dr. Koch did with his quinone

> injections.

>

> Here, I cobbled up an article on mitochondrial disorders that

should

> interest you, and yes, CoQ10 is mentioned as a useful supplement

too.

>

> regards,

>

> Duncan Crow