Re: drug costs in USA

[Guest guest]

Hi , well, some people are cold hearted and don't understand the lives

and problems of others. Who on our list can't live without expensive drugs? I

don't use the newest like Enbrel, but even with insurance I still pay a lot

of co-payments. I never have to pay to see a Doctor or go to a hospital, but

many of our American friends do have these expenses. This is a fact that some

cold-hearted Canadians forget about when making generalizations like the

person on the airplane. The Americans who come to Canada don't usually have

drug

insurance. Is it fair to have to use up your retirement savings when you

become sick? This issue has been politicized. Canada doesn't subsidize drug

prices. I know certain people in the US say that we do, but in fact there are

no

drug subsidies in Canada, if you don't believe me, look in the NAFTA treaty

between Canada, Mexico and the United States. ly I don't know why the big

difference in prices exists. Canada does give seniors over 65 virtually free

drugs after a once a year co-pay of $100, but that would not lower drug prices

for Canadians under 65. Economically, it would raise the price for Canadians

under 65. The United States is changing its medicare system to help its

seniors more, so it is not like the US government is not trying to fix the

problem. If it is not true that Canada does not subsidize drugs, then why the

difference? The real reason is an economic one, I think. Canada grants longer

patent protection for drugs which would give US drug companies more years to

recoup their research costs in Canada than in the United States. For example in

the US Prilosec is now off patent. In Canada you still need a prescription to

buy Prilosec (it is called Losec in Canada). I think the difference in the

length of drug-patent protection may be at the heart of the matter. But if you

were a big drug company would you ask a country to give you a shorter term of

patent protection? I don't know. As for your airplane friend, I hope she

never experiences the our side of the problem. I think Canada has a good health

care system. But even I have to pay extra for psychotherapy and some

physiotherapy in order to continue to use pain-killer drugs. It still uses up a

lot of

my income. Its easy to judge others when you are healthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi !

I am a Canadian citizen living in USA, so I can tell you a lot about

difference in healthcare and drug prices.

Canada requires that all drugs on the market are not higher than the average

price in industrialized world. Thus they take one drug and price from e.g.

Italy, UK

France, Germany and some other countries and average it out to create a drug

price for Canada. We have drug companies here that control through lobbying

our government to make sure they have no competition. Over the airwaves they

spread lies about Canadian drugs being unsafe. I spend my middle years in

Canada, and with my large circle of family and friends never heard of anyone

with money (like myself) go to USA to buy " SAFE DRUGS " . Our shoes, clothing

electronics, medical instruments etc., come from all over the world legally,

but if you buy drugs from outside of the country you are breaking the law.

That is how powerful Drug Manufacturing companies are........ john

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/29/2004 12:52:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jjbs88@... writes:

> Canada requires that all drugs on the market are not higher than the

> average

> price in industrialized world. Thus they take one drug and price from e.g.

> Italy, UK France, Germany and some other countries and average it out to

> create a drug

> price for Canada.

Sorry that just does not happen. The Patented Medicines Review Board in

Canada publishes the prices of existing drugs in the world to monitor for

excessive price increases for existing drugs. No Canadian government Department

or

Agency has the regulatory power to enforce rollbacks of " excessive " price

increases for existing drugs. The PMRB only has the power to ask for voluntary

rollback of excessive price increases. For brand new drugs, the PMRB uses the

factory gate price set by the drug manufacturer itself. It does not calculate a

blended price at for brand new drugs at all. What it does do is monitor

increases in prices for new drugs only after their launch. This is what every

country does without exception for all products, not just pharmaceuticals. If

you

don't believe me just ask someone who works in Canada's softwood industry.

Government price setting can only happen under the aegis of two trade

agreements -- the WTO and NAFTA -- both of which the United States and Canada

signed.

This means that Canada can not set lower pharmaceutical prices without the

consent of its trading partners -- in this case we can not set lower

phamaceutical prices without the consent of the United States. But the fact is

Canadian

pharmaceutical prices are not set in Canada. Think about it for a second,

which marketplaces actually set drug prices - Europe, Asia and the United States

or the tiny Canadian marketplace? It is laughable in the extreme to think

that Canada could set any drug price -- the big pharma companies don't need our

market and would just refuse to sell. It is analogous to your crazy uncle Bob

who won't pay a penny over 10 cents for the latest thin Plasma Television set.

The local Television store will simply forgo your crazy uncle's business not

minding a bit his threat that he will never shop there again if they don't

sell him the latest Plasma TV for a dime. But what is the saying about repeat a

lie often enough and the lie becomes the truth? We have 35 million people,

the rest of the world has 5 billion plus. Canada has no effect whatsoever on

drug prices either within or without our borders -- period. If a drug company

spokesperson or a politician says Canada is the reason US seniors are

shopping in Canada, look down to see if his or her pants are on fire. Isn't

it

interesting that the big pharma industries have been able to blow so much smoke

and publish so much misinformation that they have gotten people to forget the

essential truth that it is the economic law of supply and demand that actually

sets prices. What the pharma industry has accomplished is to convince people

that the law of gravity has ceased to work. Canada is forced by international

market forces to pay world prices for drugs. In the realm of pharmaceuticals,

Canada is a price-taker, not a price-maker -- 5 billion+ beats 35 million

every time. I am so sick and tired of the allegation that the Canadian

government must be doing something unfair -- some or most of these allegations

even

come from Canadians. No government conspiracy, not even the " evil " Canadian

government with some kind of unknown and dastardly machinations, can repeal the

economic law that it is the supply and demand curve which sets prices. The

USSR tried to keep prices artificially down and its economy collapsed. The US

pharmaceutical industry is trying to charge prices in the US above where the

supply and demand curve says the price should be and they are not having any

success either. That's the problem with capitalism -- it actually works. M

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/28/2004 6:42:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,

jr_clost@... writes:

1. weren't poor,

2. likely had lots of money,

3. could afford the drugs in the US, and

Just my thoughts...but... I would say

1) they have no health insurance Or they have insurance without prescription

coverage

2) they don't have a Lot of money or they WOULD have insurance

3) they can afford drugs in Canada and groceries in the US or... just one or

the other if they don't make the trek.

4) very likely they own their own home and do not qualify for assistance.

I could be way off base, but my findings are that As long as we have

insurance we can get meds for Adrienne at about the same cost sometimes less

than what

I understand the costs to be from Canada. But...if Adrienne wasn't on our

policy... then the drugs would cost through the roof.

One of our co-pays this year for one of her daily meds is $100 each month.

And as all know, she has more than one medication.

Currently we are paying $230 per month for 'health insurance' and an

additional $200+ per month for Adrienne's Meds. And office visits, CT's, MRI's,

Xrays, Lab work, Etc is all in addition to the medications and health insurance

costs.

I believe the gal on the plane was off base and not terribly sympathetic.

Just my thoughts

K

Adrienne's Mom

[Guest guest]

Matt,

I was paying $92.00 for generic Prozac, 20MG capsule QTY 60, at my

local, chain drugstore (Rite Aid). I was tipped off to go to the local big

wholesale mega-store, (Costco). They charge $10.69 for the same. The local TV

" news hawk " did a week-long expose' and found this happening all over town

(Metro

Detroit). GREED Harv in MI

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/29/2004 9:08:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, jls648@...

writes:

I was tipped off to go to the local big

wholesale mega-store, (Costco).

Thank you for sharing! I will ask this week what they charge for name brand,

as Adrienne has to use name brand or it doesn't work for her.

Thank you for the suggestion! I can't wait to see if I will save $$ getting

it at Costco! Although, I do get frustrated that our local Costco pharmacy

isn't open the hours and days that our local Walgreens is. But if there is $$

to be saved...may be worth the iinconvenience.

K

Adrienne's Mom

[Guest guest]

Hi Harv, I understand your frustration. It's just as a Canadian it makes me

boil inside when the US pharmaceuticals and even the US President say that the

problem is because Canada subsidizes drug prices. It is an unadulterated lie

and what's more they know it.

[Guest guest]

I would like to add one thing to Kaye's post, when a retiree on a fixed

income gets Cancer the costs of the treatments even if you do have insurance can

be

debilitating. Even at 80 percent coverage the copayments can outstrip

income. Sorry for misunderstanding about her nationality. But I don't think it

is

right for retirees to lose their pension savings just because one (or both)

gets a serious illness. Added to the burden of having to look after a sick

spouse, the healthy husband or wife has to spend time on a bus just to go to

Canada in order to save a few bucks on medications so they can make ends meet.

I

see that as a stressful thing and I don't think they would do it if they

didn't have to. Fortunately the new Medicare plan in the US goes a long way

towards fixing this problem and I gather from Harv's post that the news media

are

now bringing the drug companies to task. Good for them! M.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/29/2004 2:56:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,

supermattvan@... writes:

Even at 80 percent coverage the copayments can outstrip

income.

So totally true!

20% payment of $100 isn't bad...but quickly the bills come to $1000 and

$10,000 and 20% of that amount is huge. The bill for my 'simple surgery' was

20%

of $18,000.

Thankfully our insurance does have a cap, of $7000 per year for medical

expenses, but that doesn't include prescriptions.

I worry so much about Adrienne and how she will survive when she can no

longer be on our insurance. Right now, I am planning that we will have to COBRA

her on our policy for as long as possible.

I am also working towards finishing my degree specifically so I can be

employed where insurance is offered until she is 24 or older. On our current

policy, she would be kicked off at age 22.

The costs of the drugs for Adrienne if she isn't on our policy will run well

over $600 a month. Add any lab fees and MD visits, and...golly.

Drug and health care costs in the good ol' USA scare the heck out of me.

K ~ who used to have a different view about health care costs... ten years

ago.

Adrienne's mom

[Guest guest]

I understand your long-term worries.

My son has been on COBRA for several years now and has 1 more year left

(before it expires). He had cancer and is presently self-employed, so

any insurance is his financial responsibility (we've been paying the

premiums because he graduated from college 1 year ago and he is just

trying to get his business going. Since I've been unemployed and my

husband is self-employed, we have to purchase our health insurance from

the local business alliance. Luckily, it is less expensive than COBRA.

There are other options for us by tapping into professional

organizations. You may want to start investigating other options for

your daughter.

Pat

[Guest guest]

Thanks Matt

BTW one other reason drugs are cheaper for Americans in Canada and that is the

difference in the value of the dollar. Right now the Canadian Dollar fluctuates

in

the .73 - ..75 percent range. In other words the American Dollar buys about a

$1.35

to $1.40 worth of Canadian goods. Add that to the lower price for drugs and it

means

folks will drive up to shop and get drugs.

Going the other way our dollar will only be worth 65 - 75 cents.

As Matt points out, we are a nation with a population roughly 10 percent of the

American population. So we are no major economic problem with the rest of the

Western

world.

+Dave