Re: Flu Armor

[Guest guest]

I don't know what to think about this stuff... I'm sure its all

decent quality medical equipment, and they may very well be honest

business people. But I think this site is just trying to market

products to people who might be afraid of a possible pandemic in the

future - which may or may not happen.

I think that even a very hefty order from this company would not get

you through an all out pandemic. So I think that this stuff is not

the answer. I think if there is a pandemic people need to organize

and help each other. The individual survivalist approach only makes

things worse and breeds more fear. Goverment health agencies, NGOs,

and organized comunities can stop this thing in its tracks if they

really work at it. And that's even IF it gets to such a level.

Pete

>

> Has anyone bought anything from Fluarmor.com? They seem pretty legit,

> but I would love to know anyone's experience with them before

> purchasing a bird flu survival kit. Thanks!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Don't waste your money.

Imagine a flu pandemic, lasting 6 to 8 weeks when it hits an area and come in waves...2, 3 maybe 4 waves of 6-8 weeks of pan flu in an area. N95 masks are one time use only, disposable. Keep in mind to work properly an N95 mask has to be fit tested so nothing gets in around the edges. You would have to wear a mask ALL the time and the outside of the mask is going to get contaminated. If you touch the mask your hands are contaminated so you have to be careful not to touch your eyes or nose after removing the mask.

Gloves...what's the point? The outside of the gloves will get contaminated and the virus doesn't get in through your skin. Things you touch with the gloves will get contaminated. As soon as you remove the gloves then what? Frequent handwashing will offer more protection than gloves. Keep in mind that the flu virus can live on skin for about 5 minutes and on surfaces for about 10 minutes.

Goggles...why??? Those look like the kind of protective goggles you'd wear while using power tools. Also, when people sneeze or cough the virus doesn't just float in the air, it travels approx 6 feet then falls to the ground and on surfaces.

And who are you trying to protect with this stuff? If you're trying to keep the virus away from yourself as soon as you remove the garb to change it, eat, shower, sleep, have sex, go swimming, etc. you're exposed to the virus. Are you trying to protect other people from the flu if you get sick? A mask might offer some protection to your loved ones if you're sick - but if you're sick, coughing up stuff how are you going to keep a mask on?

And if you still want to wear all that stuff remember, you have to have a LOT of it stockpiled! Let's assume 4 masks a day. This gives you a change of masks for eating and bathing. Four masks for 6 weeks would be 168 masks. If there's only 2 waves of flu you'd need at least 336 N95 masks just for one person. Probably 350 just so you have a few extras. I've seen bulk prices of about 40 cents a mask so you'd have to spend at least $134 for 350 masks, not including shipping costs. And that's just for masks. And what happens when you run out?

As for the wipes...a bleach/water solution kills the flu virus and it's a lot cheaper. If you're thinking of getting every day disinfectant wipes - they don't necessarily kill viruses. Anti-bacterial soaps and wipes won't kill viruses. It's washing your hands with soap & water that lifts the viruses off your skin and rinses them down the sink. For surfaces that can't be washed in soap & water you use a bleach solution. MUCH more affordable and practical than buying those expensive hospital grade wipes.

It's sounds like such a simple thing to wash our hands, cover our mouths when we cough and sneeze, use tissues instead of hankercheifs so we aren't saving our germs, disinfecting with bleach and water, and staying home when sick but these really are our best weapons against the flu.

I don't want to see a bunch of good intentioned people get taken for their hard-earned money by buying this stuff. If you're still set on buying a kit at least go to your local hardware store, buy an N95 mask, some latex (or non-latex if allergic) gloves and protective goggles and try wearing them for an entire day. Then imagine wearing them all the time for 6 - 8 weeks. If you think you can do it then go ahead and buy one of those kits. I wore an N95 mask once for a few hours while cleaning out a mouse infested shed and my face got hot, sweaty and the mask started to smell really bad from my own breath. Then it fell apart and I had to put on a new one. Realistically, I don't think 4 masks would be enough for one day.

Cat~www.niteflytes.us

[Flu] Flu Armor

Has anyone bought anything from Fluarmor.com? They seem pretty legit, but I would love to know anyone's experience with them before purchasing a bird flu survival kit. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

you only need masks, when you go outside.

gloves are safer and easier than handwashing. (finger-nails,wounds)

Get a mechanism to put them on and off without touching their outside.

The virus survives 1-2 days on surfaces, I read.

googles, I'm not sure, but they were recommended by people who should know better than

you or me. But the one, I have got doesn't fit properly

[Guest guest]

In einer eMail vom 21.02.2006 08:05:43 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...:

>An aside about the bleach & water: A 1 to 10 dilution works just fine (1 part bleach, >10 parts water). Spray it on and wipe off with a paper towel. Don't use it on wood >surfaces, however. It will ruin the wood.

better the wood than the people. I don't want to keep the wood contaminated.

Is it really so bad ? Shall we lacquer all wood or use adhesive tape ?

Well, I think we should stop the virus at the entrance-door : leave the mask,suit,

gloves,shoes outside

[Guest guest]

Well said!

>

> Don't waste your money.

>

> Imagine a flu pandemic, lasting 6 to 8 weeks when it hits an area

and come in waves...2, 3 maybe 4 waves of 6-8 weeks of pan flu in an

area. N95 masks are one time use only, disposable. Keep in mind to

work properly an N95 mask has to be fit tested so nothing gets in

around the edges. You would have to wear a mask ALL the time and the

outside of the mask is going to get contaminated. If you touch the

mask your hands are contaminated so you have to be careful not to

touch your eyes or nose after removing the mask.

>

> Gloves...what's the point? The outside of the gloves will get

contaminated and the virus doesn't get in through your skin. Things

you touch with the gloves will get contaminated. As soon as you remove

the gloves then what? Frequent handwashing will offer more protection

than gloves. Keep in mind that the flu virus can live on skin for

about 5 minutes and on surfaces for about 10 minutes.

>

> Goggles...why??? Those look like the kind of protective goggles

you'd wear while using power tools. Also, when people sneeze or cough

the virus doesn't just float in the air, it travels approx 6 feet then

falls to the ground and on surfaces.

>

> And who are you trying to protect with this stuff? If you're trying

to keep the virus away from yourself as soon as you remove the garb to

change it, eat, shower, sleep, have sex, go swimming, etc. you're

exposed to the virus. Are you trying to protect other people from the

flu if you get sick? A mask might offer some protection to your loved

ones if you're sick - but if you're sick, coughing up stuff how are

you going to keep a mask on?

>

> And if you still want to wear all that stuff remember, you have to

have a LOT of it stockpiled! Let's assume 4 masks a day. This gives

you a change of masks for eating and bathing. Four masks for 6 weeks

would be 168 masks. If there's only 2 waves of flu you'd need at least

336 N95 masks just for one person. Probably 350 just so you have a few

extras. I've seen bulk prices of about 40 cents a mask so you'd have

to spend at least $134 for 350 masks, not including shipping costs.

And that's just for masks. And what happens when you run out?

>

> As for the wipes...a bleach/water solution kills the flu virus and

it's a lot cheaper. If you're thinking of getting every day

disinfectant wipes - they don't necessarily kill viruses.

Anti-bacterial soaps and wipes won't kill viruses. It's washing your

hands with soap & water that lifts the viruses off your skin and

rinses them down the sink. For surfaces that can't be washed in soap &

water you use a bleach solution. MUCH more affordable and practical

than buying those expensive hospital grade wipes.

>

> It's sounds like such a simple thing to wash our hands, cover our

mouths when we cough and sneeze, use tissues instead of hankercheifs

so we aren't saving our germs, disinfecting with bleach and water, and

staying home when sick but these really are our best weapons against

the flu.

>

> I don't want to see a bunch of good intentioned people get taken for

their hard-earned money by buying this stuff. If you're still set on

buying a kit at least go to your local hardware store, buy an N95

mask, some latex (or non-latex if allergic) gloves and protective

goggles and try wearing them for an entire day. Then imagine wearing

them all the time for 6 - 8 weeks. If you think you can do it then go

ahead and buy one of those kits. I wore an N95 mask once for a few

hours while cleaning out a mouse infested shed and my face got hot,

sweaty and the mask started to smell really bad from my own breath.

Then it fell apart and I had to put on a new one. Realistically, I

don't think 4 masks would be enough for one day.

>

> Cat~

> www.niteflytes.us

> [Flu] Flu Armor

>

>

> Has anyone bought anything from Fluarmor.com? They seem pretty

legit,

> but I would love to know anyone's experience with them before

> purchasing a bird flu survival kit. Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am sure the virus survives more than 10 minutes on surfaces,

I think should be at least more than 24 hours depending on the

temperature.

From WHO, "For example, the

highly pathogenic H5N1 virus can survive in bird faeces for at least 35

days at low temperature (4oC). At a much higher temperature (37oC),

H5N1 viruses have been shown to survive, in faecal samples, for six

days".

Cat~ wrote:

Gloves...what's the point? The

outside of the gloves will get contaminated and the virus doesn't get

in through your skin. Things you touch with the gloves will get

contaminated. As soon as you remove the gloves then what? Frequent

handwashing will offer more protection than gloves. Keep in mind that

the flu virus can live on skin for about 5 minutes and on surfaces for

about 10 minutes.

[Guest guest]

From search, virus can survive for weeks.

"The avian influenza viruses can also survive on other surfaces such as

the poultry house environment for several weeks".

http://www.who.int/foodsafety/fs_management/No_02_Avianinfluenza_Dec04_en.pdf

International Food Safety Authorities Network (INFOSAN) 17 December

2004 INFOSAN Information Note No. 2/04 - Avian Influenza Highly

Pathogenic Avian Influenza H5N1 outbreaks in poultry and in humans:

Food safety implications.The recent outbreaks of highly pathogenic H5N1

avian influenza in poultry in Asia have raised concerns about the

source of infection and the risk of human transmission. WHO is aware of

recent concerns over the possibility that the avian influenza, in

addition to direct contact with live infected animals, could

spreadthrough contact with contaminated poultry products. To date there

is no epidemiological information tosuggest that the disease can be

transmitted through contaminated food or that products shipped from

affectedareas have been the source of infection in humans. Poultry: The

avian influenza virus survives on contaminated raw poultry meat and can

be spread through contaminated food products (e.g. frozen meat). In

general, low temperatures increase the stability of theviruses. The

virus can survive in faeces for at least 35 days at low temperatures

(4°C); at 37°C viruses were detected for 6 days in recent stability

tests on faecal samples with the H5N1 2004 viruses. The avian influenza

viruses can also survive on other surfaces such as the poultry house

environment for several weeks. Due tothis survival capability, common

food preservation processes such as freezing and refrigeration will not

substantially reduce the concentration or virulence of these viruses on

contaminated meat. Normal cooking(temperatures at or above 70°C) will

inactivate the virus. To date there is no epidemiological evidence that

people have been infected through consumption of well-cooked

contaminated poultry meat. From the above, it can be concluded that

well cooked poultry meat is safe but handling of frozen or thawed raw

poultry meat before cooking can be hazardous if good hygienic practices

are not observed (see recommendations in box below). In addition, in

areas currently experiencing avian influenza outbreaks in poultry, the

practice of marketing live birds with further extensive exposure to

potentially contaminated parts of a chicken during home slaughtering,

defeathering, eviscerating, etc. may pose a significant risk to persons

involved in these activities. From the limited studies available, it

appears that almost all parts of an infected bird are contaminated with

the viruses. In poultry outbreak areas, contacts between humans and

live poultry should be limited as much as possible by restricting

movements of live birds and by using care in potentially hazardous

activities such as raising freeranging poultry flocks in and around

homes and home-slaughtering of poultry. Eggs: The Avian Influenza virus

can be found inside and on the surface of eggs. Although sick birds

will normally stop laying, eggs laid in the early phase of the disease

could contain viruses in the albumen and yolk as well as on the

surface. The survival time of the viruses (see above temperatures of

survival) on surfaces such as eggs is sufficient to allow wide

dissemination. Only proper cooking will be able to inactivate the virus

present inside the eggs. There is no epidemiological evidence to

suggest that people have been infected by consumption of eggs or egg

products. In one instance, pigs have been infected probably through

feed containing unprocessed eggs from an avian influenza infected

poultry flock.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 2

Tigers: Recently, a large number of tigers were infected with H5N1 and

died in a breeding zoo in Thailand probably after being fed with

contaminated chicken. So far there is no clear understanding whether or

not they were fed with whole dead chickens or carcasses, but there are

indications that it was carcasses from a slaughterhouse. If the tigers

were fed with whole dead chickens, they would probably have been

infected through close contact with viruses present on the feathers and

in the respiratory tract of the chickens. On thecontrary, if they were

fed with carcasses coming from a slaughterhouse, they would have been

more likely infected by the consumption of the contaminated bones and

meat. The latter case would also indicate thatinfected poultry may have

been processed for human or animal consumption and that infection could

occur through the consumption of raw meat. Additional guidance on food

safety implications : WHO has developed two guidance notes on the food

safety implications of the current outbreaks. The first note is on the

general food safety consideration related to the outbreaks in poultry

while the second one deals with the specific conditions found in rural

areas in Asia currently experiencing poultry outbreaks. Both notesare

available at: http://www.who.int/foodsafety/micro/avian/en/. WHO has

also developed guidance forpeople living in areas experiencing

outbreaks. This can be found at:

http://www.wpro.who.int/avian/docs/advice.asp . Further general

information on the current avian influenza outbreaks is available at:

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/en/. The WHO “5 keys to

safer food” good hygienic practices recommendations can be found at:

http://www.who.int/foodsafety/consumer/5keys/en/. These recommendations

are available in several languages. Background on Avian Influenza:

Avian influenza is an infectious disease of birds caused by influenza A

viruses. Migratory waterfowl - mostnotably wild ducks - are the natural

reservoir of all influenza A viruses. Avian influenza also has a

highlypathogenic form, first identified in Italy more than 100 years

ago and previously known as “fowl plague”. Ofthe 15 main subtypes of

influenza A viruses, only strains within the H5 and H7 subtypes cause

highly pathogenic avian influenza, which is highly contagious and

rapidly fatal in susceptible avian species.Chickens and turkeys are

particularly susceptible to epidemics; direct or indirect contact of

domestic flockswith wild waterfowl has been implicated as a frequent

cause. Live bird markets have also played an important role in the

spread of epidemics. Birds that survive infection excrete virus for at

least 10 days, orally and in Recommended good hygienic practices to

avoid spreading of the virus through food: (adapted from the WHO 5 Keys

to safer food) : • Separate raw meat from cooked or ready-to-eat foods

to avoid contamination: Do not use the same chopping board or the same

knife. Do not handle both raw and cooked foods without washing your

hands in between and do not place cooked meat back on the same plate or

surface it was on before cooking. Do not use raw or soft boiled eggs in

food preparations that will not be heat treated/cooked. • Keep clean

and wash your hands: After handling frozen or thawed raw chicken or

eggs, wash thoroughly with soap your hands, surfaces and utensils that

have been in contact with the raw meat. • Cook thoroughly: Thorough

cooking of poultry meat will inactivate the viruses. Either ensure that

the poultry meat reaches 70°C or that the meat is not pink. Egg yolks

should not be runny or liquid.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 3

faeces, thus facilitating further spread. Unlike chickens, ducks are

known to be resistant to the viruses and can be asymptomatic carriers

of the viruses thus also contributing to further spread. Avian

influenza viruses normally infect only birds and pigs. Since 1959,

viruses of the H5, H7, and H9 subtypes have crossed the species barrier

to infect humans on 10 occasions. Most avian influenza virusesaffecting

humans have caused mild respiratory symptoms or conjunctivitis, with

one important exception: the H5N1 strain. H5N1 has caused severe

disease with high fatality in 1997, 2003, and 2004. Studies comparing

virus samples over time show that H5N1 has become progressively more

pathogenic for mammals, and is now hardier than in the past, surviving

several days longer in the environment. Evidence further suggests that

H5N1 is expanding its range of mammalian susceptible species. In 2004,

H5N1 caused fatal disease innaturally infected large felines (tigers

and leopards) and experimentally infected domestic cats - species not

previously considered susceptible to disease caused by any influenza A

virus. The public health concerns : The outbreaks of highly pathogenic

H5N1 avian influenza in poultry that began in Asia in 2003 have, to

date, been accompanied by 44 confirmed human cases, of which 32 have

died. The majority of cases have occurred in previously healthy

children and young adults. Most, but not all, of these cases have been

linked to close contact with infected poultry or their secretions. H5N1

is of particular concern for several reasons. H5N1 mutates rapidly and

can acquire genes from otherviruses including human influenza viruses.

The current epidemic of highly pathogenic avian influenza caused by

H5N1 in Asian countries, is therefore of particular public health

concern. If more humans become infectedover time, the likelihood also

increases for the emergence of a novel subtype with sufficient human

genes to be easily transmitted from person to person. Such an event

would mark the start of an influenza pandemic.Historically, influenza

pandemics occur in cycles of 20 to 30 years. In the 20thcentury, the

great influenza pandemic of 1918–1919, which caused an estimated 40 to

50 million deaths worldwide, was followed by milder pandemics in

1957–1958 and 1968–1969. WHO and influenza experts worldwide agree that

H5N1 hasconsiderable pandemic potential. With the virus now endemic in

large parts of Asia, the probability that this potential will be

realized has increased. While it is impossible to accurately forecast

the magnitude of the next pandemic, we do know that much of the world

is unprepared for a pandemic of any size and for thewidespread

socioeconomic disruptions that would result from having large numbers

of people quarantined, unwell or dying.

I am sure the virus survives more than 10 minutes on surfaces,

I think should be at least more than 24 hours depending on the

temperature.

>From WHO, "For example, the

highly pathogenic H5N1 virus can survive in bird faeces for at least 35

days at low temperature (4oC). At a much higher temperature (37oC),

H5N1 viruses have been shown to survive, in faecal samples, for six

days".

Cat~ wrote:

Gloves...what's the point? The

outside of the gloves will get contaminated and the virus doesn't get

in through your skin. Things you touch with the gloves will get

contaminated. As soon as you remove the gloves then what? Frequent

handwashing will offer more protection than gloves. Keep in mind that

the flu virus can live on skin for about 5 minutes and on surfaces for

about 10 minutes.

[Guest guest]

I'm talking surfaces like tables, doorknobs...feces is entirely different. Feces offers an environment that the virus can live in by the nature of what feces is made up of. Surfaces that we touch throughout the day are not biological in nature and don't offer any medium for the virus to sustain itself. My information on the virus living 10 min's on surfaces is from the CDC. I work for a state health department so I'm not pulling information out of my hat. This is official info that is being presented to health care and emergency workers in statewide pandemic flu presentations and the state health department has checked and approved all information given in the presentations. However, it is good information that the virus can live so long in feces. Especially important for anyone who owns or is around chickens a lot.

Cat~www.niteflytes.us

Re: [Flu] Flu Armor

I am sure the virus survives more than 10 minutes on surfaces,I think should be at least more than 24 hours depending on the temperature.From WHO, "For example, the highly pathogenic H5N1 virus can survive in bird faeces for at least 35 days at low temperature (4oC). At a much higher temperature (37oC), H5N1 viruses have been shown to survive, in faecal samples, for six days".Cat~ wrote:

Gloves...what's the point? The outside of the gloves will get contaminated and the virus doesn't get in through your skin. Things you touch with the gloves will get contaminated. As soon as you remove the gloves then what? Frequent handwashing will offer more protection than gloves. Keep in mind that the flu virus can live on skin for about 5 minutes and on surfaces for about 10 minutes.

[Guest guest]

Are we speaking of avian flu virus living in areas contaminated with fecal matter and secretions or are we speaking of H2H transmission of the flu virus via touching everyday objects?

My points were directed towards H2H transmission, not how long the virus lives in places where a large flock of infected chickens are shedding the virus all over the place.

Back to my point about the gloves...If we have the flu and sneeze or cough then touch something we get the virus on it regardless if we're wearing gloves. When we touch objects with the virus on them we'll get the virus on our hands...gloves or no gloves. It really doesn't matter if it survives minutes or hours on surfaces in H2H transmission. We touch surfaces over and over, spreading the virus to hands, faces, eyes, noses, mouths. Then we touch the same surfaces again and start the cycle over. The virus will get into the little spaces on our phones, remotes, keyboards, computer mice, alarm clocks, toothbrushes, eyeglass...everything we touch. It goes back to frequent handwashing and not coughing or sneezing directly onto our hands. Better to sneeze or cough into the crook of your elbow or a tissue. I'm not really worried about how long it lives in fecal matter since I don't live near any chickens nor am I in the position of having to deal with cleaning up after another person's bodily functions. But that does bring up a thought...will the virus survive as well in human fecal matter and what implications will this have on people who care for babies and the elderly who need assistance with their bodily functions? Always something new to think about

Cat~www.niteflytes.us

Re: [Flu] Flu Armor

From search, virus can survive for weeks."The avian influenza viruses can also survive on other surfaces such as the poultry house environment for several weeks".http://www.who.int/foodsafety/fs_management/No_02_Avianinfluenza_Dec04_en.pdf

International Food Safety Authorities Network (INFOSAN) 17 December 2004 INFOSAN Information Note No. 2/04 - Avian Influenza Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza H5N1 outbreaks in poultry and in humans: Food safety implications.The recent outbreaks of highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza in poultry in Asia have raised concerns about the source of infection and the risk of human transmission. WHO is aware of recent concerns over the possibility that the avian influenza, in addition to direct contact with live infected animals, could spreadthrough contact with contaminated poultry products. To date there is no epidemiological information tosuggest that the disease can be transmitted through contaminated food or that products shipped from affectedareas have been the source of infection in humans. Poultry: The avian influenza virus survives on contaminated raw poultry meat and can be spread through contaminated food products (e.g. frozen meat). In general, low temperatures increase the stability of theviruses. The virus can survive in faeces for at least 35 days at low temperatures (4°C); at 37°C viruses were detected for 6 days in recent stability tests on faecal samples with the H5N1 2004 viruses. The avian influenza viruses can also survive on other surfaces such as the poultry house environment for several weeks. Due tothis survival capability, common food preservation processes such as freezing and refrigeration will not substantially reduce the concentration or virulence of these viruses on contaminated meat. Normal cooking(temperatures at or above 70°C) will inactivate the virus. To date there is no epidemiological evidence that people have been infected through consumption of well-cooked contaminated poultry meat. From the above, it can be concluded that well cooked poultry meat is safe but handling of frozen or thawed raw poultry meat before cooking can be hazardous if good hygienic practices are not observed (see recommendations in box below). In addition, in areas currently experiencing avian influenza outbreaks in poultry, the practice of marketing live birds with further extensive exposure to potentially contaminated parts of a chicken during home slaughtering, defeathering, eviscerating, etc. may pose a significant risk to persons involved in these activities. From the limited studies available, it appears that almost all parts of an infected bird are contaminated with the viruses. In poultry outbreak areas, contacts between humans and live poultry should be limited as much as possible by restricting movements of live birds and by using care in potentially hazardous activities such as raising freeranging poultry flocks in and around homes and home-slaughtering of poultry. Eggs: The Avian Influenza virus can be found inside and on the surface of eggs. Although sick birds will normally stop laying, eggs laid in the early phase of the disease could contain viruses in the albumen and yolk as well as on the surface. The survival time of the viruses (see above temperatures of survival) on surfaces such as eggs is sufficient to allow wide dissemination. Only proper cooking will be able to inactivate the virus present inside the eggs. There is no epidemiological evidence to suggest that people have been infected by consumption of eggs or egg products. In one instance, pigs have been infected probably through feed containing unprocessed eggs from an avian influenza infected poultry flock. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Page 2 Tigers: Recently, a large number of tigers were infected with H5N1 and died in a breeding zoo in Thailand probably after being fed with contaminated chicken. So far there is no clear understanding whether or not they were fed with whole dead chickens or carcasses, but there are indications that it was carcasses from a slaughterhouse. If the tigers were fed with whole dead chickens, they would probably have been infected through close contact with viruses present on the feathers and in the respiratory tract of the chickens. On thecontrary, if they were fed with carcasses coming from a slaughterhouse, they would have been more likely infected by the consumption of the contaminated bones and meat. The latter case would also indicate thatinfected poultry may have been processed for human or animal consumption and that infection could occur through the consumption of raw meat. Additional guidance on food safety implications : WHO has developed two guidance notes on the food safety implications of the current outbreaks. The first note is on the general food safety consideration related to the outbreaks in poultry while the second one deals with the specific conditions found in rural areas in Asia currently experiencing poultry outbreaks. Both notesare available at: http://www.who.int/foodsafety/micro/avian/en/. WHO has also developed guidance forpeople living in areas experiencing outbreaks. This can be found at: http://www.wpro.who.int/avian/docs/advice.asp . Further general information on the current avian influenza outbreaks is available at: http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/en/. The WHO “5 keys to safer food” good hygienic practices recommendations can be found at: http://www.who.int/foodsafety/consumer/5keys/en/. These recommendations are available in several languages. Background on Avian Influenza: Avian influenza is an infectious disease of birds caused by influenza A viruses. Migratory waterfowl - mostnotably wild ducks - are the natural reservoir of all influenza A viruses. Avian influenza also has a highlypathogenic form, first identified in Italy more than 100 years ago and previously known as “fowl plague”. Ofthe 15 main subtypes of influenza A viruses, only strains within the H5 and H7 subtypes cause highly pathogenic avian influenza, which is highly contagious and rapidly fatal in susceptible avian species.Chickens and turkeys are particularly susceptible to epidemics; direct or indirect contact of domestic flockswith wild waterfowl has been implicated as a frequent cause. Live bird markets have also played an important role in the spread of epidemics. Birds that survive infection excrete virus for at least 10 days, orally and in Recommended good hygienic practices to avoid spreading of the virus through food: (adapted from the WHO 5 Keys to safer food) : • Separate raw meat from cooked or ready-to-eat foods to avoid contamination: Do not use the same chopping board or the same knife. Do not handle both raw and cooked foods without washing your hands in between and do not place cooked meat back on the same plate or surface it was on before cooking. Do not use raw or soft boiled eggs in food preparations that will not be heat treated/cooked. • Keep clean and wash your hands: After handling frozen or thawed raw chicken or eggs, wash thoroughly with soap your hands, surfaces and utensils that have been in contact with the raw meat. • Cook thoroughly: Thorough cooking of poultry meat will inactivate the viruses. Either ensure that the poultry meat reaches 70°C or that the meat is not pink. Egg yolks should not be runny or liquid. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Page 3 faeces, thus facilitating further spread. Unlike chickens, ducks are known to be resistant to the viruses and can be asymptomatic carriers of the viruses thus also contributing to further spread. Avian influenza viruses normally infect only birds and pigs. Since 1959, viruses of the H5, H7, and H9 subtypes have crossed the species barrier to infect humans on 10 occasions. Most avian influenza virusesaffecting humans have caused mild respiratory symptoms or conjunctivitis, with one important exception: the H5N1 strain. H5N1 has caused severe disease with high fatality in 1997, 2003, and 2004. Studies comparing virus samples over time show that H5N1 has become progressively more pathogenic for mammals, and is now hardier than in the past, surviving several days longer in the environment. Evidence further suggests that H5N1 is expanding its range of mammalian susceptible species. In 2004, H5N1 caused fatal disease innaturally infected large felines (tigers and leopards) and experimentally infected domestic cats - species not previously considered susceptible to disease caused by any influenza A virus. The public health concerns : The outbreaks of highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza in poultry that began in Asia in 2003 have, to date, been accompanied by 44 confirmed human cases, of which 32 have died. The majority of cases have occurred in previously healthy children and young adults. Most, but not all, of these cases have been linked to close contact with infected poultry or their secretions. H5N1 is of particular concern for several reasons. H5N1 mutates rapidly and can acquire genes from otherviruses including human influenza viruses. The current epidemic of highly pathogenic avian influenza caused by H5N1 in Asian countries, is therefore of particular public health concern. If more humans become infectedover time, the likelihood also increases for the emergence of a novel subtype with sufficient human genes to be easily transmitted from person to person. Such an event would mark the start of an influenza pandemic.Historically, influenza pandemics occur in cycles of 20 to 30 years. In the 20thcentury, the great influenza pandemic of 1918–1919, which caused an estimated 40 to 50 million deaths worldwide, was followed by milder pandemics in 1957–1958 and 1968–1969. WHO and influenza experts worldwide agree that H5N1 hasconsiderable pandemic potential. With the virus now endemic in large parts of Asia, the probability that this potential will be realized has increased. While it is impossible to accurately forecast the magnitude of the next pandemic, we do know that much of the world is unprepared for a pandemic of any size and for thewidespread socioeconomic disruptions that would result from having large numbers of people quarantined, unwell or dying. I am sure the virus survives more than 10 minutes on surfaces,I think should be at least more than 24 hours depending on the temperature.>From WHO, "For example, the highly pathogenic H5N1 virus can survive in bird faeces for at least 35 days at low temperature (4oC). At a much higher temperature (37oC), H5N1 viruses have been shown to survive, in faecal samples, for six days".Cat~ wrote:

Gloves...what's the point? The outside of the gloves will get contaminated and the virus doesn't get in through your skin. Things you touch with the gloves will get contaminated. As soon as you remove the gloves then what? Frequent handwashing will offer more protection than gloves. Keep in mind that the flu virus can live on skin for about 5 minutes and on surfaces for about 10 minutes.

[Guest guest]

From this nurse's standpoint, the stuff does indeed seem very legit. Certainly, there would be no harm in having it. But how many kits would a person need and over how long a period of time? Everything's one-time use only, so it could run into hundreds of dollars if a person felt the need to stockpile.trastevere402 <trastevere402@...> wrote: Has anyone bought anything from Fluarmor.com? They seem pretty legit, but I would love to know anyone's experience with them before purchasing a bird flu survival kit. Thanks! . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. -Dr.Seuss . It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. - Duke Ellington

[Guest guest]

An aside about the bleach & water: A 1 to 10 dilution works just fine (1 part bleach, 10 parts water). Spray it on and wipe off with a paper towel. Don't use it on wood surfaces, however. It will ruin the wood. Pete <pete8811@...> wrote: Well said!>> Don't waste your money.> > Imagine a flu pandemic, lasting 6 to 8 weeks when it hits an areaand come in waves...2, 3 maybe 4 waves of 6-8 weeks of pan flu in anarea. N95 masks are one time use only, disposable. Keep in mind towork properly an N95 mask has to be fit tested so nothing gets inaround the edges. You would have to wear a mask ALL the time and theoutside of the mask is going to get contaminated. If you touch themask your hands

are contaminated so you have to be careful not totouch your eyes or nose after removing the mask. > > Gloves...what's the point? The outside of the gloves will getcontaminated and the virus doesn't get in through your skin. Thingsyou touch with the gloves will get contaminated. As soon as you removethe gloves then what? Frequent handwashing will offer more protectionthan gloves. Keep in mind that the flu virus can live on skin forabout 5 minutes and on surfaces for about 10 minutes. > > Goggles...why??? Those look like the kind of protective gogglesyou'd wear while using power tools. Also, when people sneeze or coughthe virus doesn't just float in the air, it travels approx 6 feet thenfalls to the ground and on surfaces.> > And who are you trying to protect with this stuff? If you're tryingto keep the virus away from yourself as soon as you remove the garb tochange it, eat, shower, sleep, have sex,

go swimming, etc. you'reexposed to the virus. Are you trying to protect other people from theflu if you get sick? A mask might offer some protection to your lovedones if you're sick - but if you're sick, coughing up stuff how areyou going to keep a mask on?> > And if you still want to wear all that stuff remember, you have tohave a LOT of it stockpiled! Let's assume 4 masks a day. This givesyou a change of masks for eating and bathing. Four masks for 6 weekswould be 168 masks. If there's only 2 waves of flu you'd need at least336 N95 masks just for one person. Probably 350 just so you have a fewextras. I've seen bulk prices of about 40 cents a mask so you'd haveto spend at least $134 for 350 masks, not including shipping costs.And that's just for masks. And what happens when you run out?> > As for the wipes...a bleach/water solution kills the flu virus andit's a lot cheaper. If you're thinking of getting

every daydisinfectant wipes - they don't necessarily kill viruses.Anti-bacterial soaps and wipes won't kill viruses. It's washing yourhands with soap & water that lifts the viruses off your skin andrinses them down the sink. For surfaces that can't be washed in soap & water you use a bleach solution. MUCH more affordable and practicalthan buying those expensive hospital grade wipes. > > It's sounds like such a simple thing to wash our hands, cover ourmouths when we cough and sneeze, use tissues instead of hankercheifsso we aren't saving our germs, disinfecting with bleach and water, andstaying home when sick but these really are our best weapons againstthe flu. > > I don't want to see a bunch of good intentioned people get taken fortheir hard-earned money by buying this stuff. If you're still set onbuying a kit at least go to your local hardware store, buy an N95mask, some latex (or non-latex if

allergic) gloves and protectivegoggles and try wearing them for an entire day. Then imagine wearingthem all the time for 6 - 8 weeks. If you think you can do it then goahead and buy one of those kits. I wore an N95 mask once for a fewhours while cleaning out a mouse infested shed and my face got hot,sweaty and the mask started to smell really bad from my own breath.Then it fell apart and I had to put on a new one. Realistically, Idon't think 4 masks would be enough for one day. > > Cat~> www.niteflytes.us> [Flu] Flu Armor> > > Has anyone bought anything from Fluarmor.com? They seem prettylegit, > but I would love to know anyone's

experience with them before > purchasing a bird flu survival kit. Thanks!> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

About gloves, the public may not wear it even if it is useful. Medical

staff and those caring for the sick definitely need them.

During 2003 SARS, a lot of people would just press the lift button with

some

tissue paper and throw it. Cat, Thanks for yr comments. I join this

group just

to learn from people like yourself.

Cat~ wrote:

Are we speaking of avian flu virus

living in areas contaminated with fecal matter and secretions or are we

speaking of H2H transmission of the flu virus via touching everyday

objects?

My points were directed towards H2H

transmission, not how long the virus lives in places where a large

flock of infected chickens are shedding the virus all over the place.

Back to my point about the

gloves...If we have the flu and sneeze or cough then touch something we

get the virus on it regardless if we're wearing gloves. When we touch

objects with the virus on them we'll get the virus on our

hands...gloves or no gloves. It really doesn't matter if it survives

minutes or hours on surfaces in H2H transmission. We touch surfaces

over and over, spreading the virus to hands, faces, eyes, noses,

mouths. Then we touch the same surfaces again and start the cycle

over. The virus will get into the little spaces on our phones, remotes,

keyboards, computer mice, alarm clocks, toothbrushes,

eyeglass...everything we touch. It goes back to frequent handwashing

and not coughing or sneezing directly onto our hands. Better to sneeze

or cough into the crook of your elbow or a tissue. I'm not really

worried about how long it lives in fecal matter since I don't live near

any chickens nor am I in the position of having to deal with cleaning

up after another person's bodily functions. But that does bring up a

thought...will the virus survive as well in human fecal matter and what

implications will this have on people who care for babies and the

elderly who need assistance with their bodily functions? Always

something new to think about

Cat~

www.niteflytes.us

[Guest guest]

You're right. I've never known what to do about wood surfaces other than to wipe them down frequently with a damp paper towel and keep them as free of dust as possible. You just have to do whatever your own common sense tells you in some situations.sterten@... wrote: In einer eMail vom 21.02.2006 08:05:43 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...: >An aside about the bleach & water: A 1 to 10 dilution works just fine (1 part bleach, >10 parts water). Spray it on and wipe off with a paper towel. Don't use it on wood >surfaces, however. It

will ruin the wood. better the wood than the people. I don't want to keep the wood contaminated. Is it really so bad ? Shall we lacquer all wood or use adhesive tape ? Well, I think we should stop the virus at the entrance-door : leave the mask,suit, gloves,shoes outside . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. -Dr.Seuss . It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. - Duke Ellington

[Guest guest]

Burn it, imo. I mean seriously. If there is a pandemic, hmmmm, what's more important to me. My family surviving, or some peice of wood furniture?

-----Original Message-----From: Flu [mailto:Flu ]On Behalf Of Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:45 AMFlu Subject: Re: [Flu] Re: Flu ArmorYou're right. I've never known what to do about wood surfaces other than to wipe them down frequently with a damp paper towel and keep them as free of dust as possible. You just have to do whatever your own common sense tells you in some situations.sterten@... wrote:

In einer eMail vom 21.02.2006 08:05:43 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...:

>An aside about the bleach & water: A 1 to 10 dilution works just fine (1 part bleach, >10 parts water). Spray it on and wipe off with a paper towel. Don't use it on wood >surfaces, however. It will ruin the wood.

better the wood than the people. I don't want to keep the wood contaminated.

Is it really so bad ? Shall we lacquer all wood or use adhesive tape ?

Well, I think we should stop the virus at the entrance-door : leave the mask,suit,

gloves,shoes outside

.. Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

.. Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. -Dr.Seuss

.. It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. - Duke Ellington