Re: Barbeques and Health

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Don't know about that, but I have read, and use myself, chlorella (ie. Sun

Chlorella), to counter the carcinogenic effects of the charcoal. Have you

heard of this?

Theresa

[Guest guest]

Cooking over any kind of open flame has potential for carcinogen buildup,

because the fat drips onto the open flame and oxidizes, and evaporates into

the meat. That is my understanding. Just because primitive folks did it

doesn't mean it doesn't contribute to cancer. The San or !Kung I think they

are, started smoking cigarettes and still didn't get cancer but I wouldn't

suggest anyone do it assuming it's fine. Cancer is multi-factorial and it is

impossible to avoid all carcinogens. ALL cooking creates carcinogens. The

important thing is not overcooking the food you cook, making sure you include

as much or more raw meat than cooked, and the other protective factors of

nutrient-dense food-- IMHO.

Chris

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> " To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

>to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

>servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

>Roosevelt

Totally OT, but wow, good quote.

-

[Guest guest]

I',m not sure where one can easily access this info. It was info included

with the Sun Chlorella purchase. Maybe just type in Sun Chlorella.com.

Theresa

[Guest guest]

>

>Cooking over any kind of open flame has potential for carcinogen buildup,

>because the fat drips onto the open flame and oxidizes, and evaporates into

>the meat. That is my understanding.

I've been using a water-smoker, where the food cooks over a big pan of

water. This has

other advantages besides the lack of fat hitting hot coals -- you don't

have to watch

the food, it doesn't burn, and it is moister and tastes better. Ours is

propane, and it

is also a LOT easier to get going than a real bbq. Other than the lack of burnt

skin, it tastes like bbq.

On a side note, recently we decided that we should make some " real " bbq and

used

some briquettes. We both got sick off the results and it tasted like chemicals

to me.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Could you please give me more info on the water smoker. How is it that it

tastes like barbeque without the charcoals? Don't you miss the charbroiled meat

taste? What type of stores carry it? Any discount stores that you know of?

Jafa

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>

>Cooking over any kind of open flame has potential for carcinogen buildup,

>because the fat drips onto the open flame and oxidizes, and evaporates into

>the meat. That is my understanding.

I've been using a water-smoker, where the food cooks over a big pan of

water. This has

other advantages besides the lack of fat hitting hot coals -- you don't

have to watch

the food, it doesn't burn, and it is moister and tastes better. Ours is

propane, and it

is also a LOT easier to get going than a real bbq. Other than the lack of burnt

skin, it tastes like bbq.

On a side note, recently we decided that we should make some " real " bbq and

used

some briquettes. We both got sick off the results and it tasted like chemicals

to me.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>Could you please give me more info on the water smoker. How is it that

>it tastes like barbeque without the charcoals? Don't you miss the

>charbroiled meat taste? What type of stores carry it? Any discount

>stores that you

It tastes like smoked meat -- think of smoked salmon or smoked turkey.

Except moist,

not the dry smoked stuff (you can smoke something and then dehydrate it the

dehydrator

to make, say, smoked jerky). In theory, you can still use it as a

charbroiler, using the lava

rocks and the propane, or even use coals, but I have not been successful at

that (the

fat hit the rocks and caught on fire) -- I never was any good at that kind

of cooking

though, you have to stand there and watch it or things burn, and I'm not

that patient.

Plus it is often rainy here and standing in the rain watching chicken roast

is not

fun.

I don't know what charcoal tastes like any more. When we tried using

charcoal it tasted to me like

kissing a cigarette smoker -- I think it gives off tars or something. The

smokey taste is a lot

like what I think " charbroiled " should taste like. If you want more

carmelization on the outside,

using a sauce with some fruit juice or sugar in it will make it browner. I

usually brine the meat

too. We have a lot of visitors though, and so far everything just thinks it

is delicious, the

" charcoal " issue doesn't come up.

Ours is a Brinkman and we got it from Lowes for $99. The one before that I

got mail

order for $69 on sale. I think they are available online.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...>

> On a side note, recently we decided that we should make

>some " real " bbq and > used > some briquettes. We both got

>sick off the results and it tasted like chemicals

> to me.

> Heidi S

Hi Heidi,

Not trying to poke at you here, but we are a household of

very traditional loving things. BBQ being one pet of ours.

" Real " bbq is not cooked with briquettes or even lump charcoal.

Real BBQ is cooked with hardwood burnt to coals. Briquettes

are toxic and I would " never " use them or recommend them.

I am of the understanding that the issue with cooking

" bbq " is benzopyrenes (sp?) They are also possible to

get when cooking in the oven or in a frying pan. I believe

(and I are stoopid) they are generated by fat vaporizing.

So cooking a roasting chicken in a *hot* oven could generate

them also. The more closed of the environment the more it

exaggerates the effects.

You could still cook outdoors with hard wood burnt to coals

but place them around the meat, not under. Then you will

be cooking with radiation from the coals. Even with the

coals under the meat a little I am of the opinion that the

benzo. build up is negligible. We cook whole pigs with

some coals under and the " smoke " taste is really not there.

Take Care,

Adrienne

Georgia Naturals Farm

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Thanks so much for the info. It sounds great. I have done some research on the

internet and have a few questions. Some say the small ones are hard to keep a

high enough heat and the vent systems aren't adequate. Do you have a problem

with this? Also, is yours gas or electric? If you were to buy another one,

would you get a different type? I take it you can use charcoal or wood

briquettes in yours also, if you want to. Would you use the briquettes along

with the water for a more charbroiled flavor? And lastly, one column said you

can water smoke it and then brown the outside, but didn't say how. Do you know

how to do this?

Oh, one last thing. Why do you brine the meat and how do you do this?

Thank you in advance.

Jafa

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>Heidi,

>Could you please give me more info on the water smoker. How is it that

>it tastes like barbeque without the charcoals? Don't you miss the

>charbroiled meat taste? What type of stores carry it? Any discount

>stores that you

It tastes like smoked meat -- think of smoked salmon or smoked turkey.

Except moist,

not the dry smoked stuff (you can smoke something and then dehydrate it the

dehydrator

to make, say, smoked jerky). In theory, you can still use it as a

charbroiler, using the lava

rocks and the propane, or even use coals, but I have not been successful at

that (the

fat hit the rocks and caught on fire) -- I never was any good at that kind

of cooking

though, you have to stand there and watch it or things burn, and I'm not

that patient.

Plus it is often rainy here and standing in the rain watching chicken roast

is not

fun.

I don't know what charcoal tastes like any more. When we tried using

charcoal it tasted to me like

kissing a cigarette smoker -- I think it gives off tars or something. The

smokey taste is a lot

like what I think " charbroiled " should taste like. If you want more

carmelization on the outside,

using a sauce with some fruit juice or sugar in it will make it browner. I

usually brine the meat

too. We have a lot of visitors though, and so far everything just thinks it

is delicious, the

" charcoal " issue doesn't come up.

Ours is a Brinkman and we got it from Lowes for $99. The one before that I

got mail

order for $69 on sale. I think they are available online.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

At 12:01 PM 4/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi Heidi,

>

>Not trying to poke at you here, but we are a household of

>very traditional loving things. BBQ being one pet of ours.

> " Real " bbq is not cooked with briquettes or even lump charcoal.

>Real BBQ is cooked with hardwood burnt to coals. Briquettes

>are toxic and I would " never " use them or recommend them.

Well, after our experience I'd totally agree! My hubby and I were

kind of looking back to our childhood, I think. Bbq briquettes are also

made with wheat, believe it or not, so that would be an issue for us too.

Anyway, the whole alder logs work just fine for smoking, and we

have acres of them.

>I am of the understanding that the issue with cooking

> " bbq " is benzopyrenes (sp?) They are also possible to

>get when cooking in the oven or in a frying pan. I believe

>(and I are stoopid) they are generated by fat vaporizing.

>So cooking a roasting chicken in a *hot* oven could generate

>them also. The more closed of the environment the more it

>exaggerates the effects.

I agree. That is why I like the water smoker. The fat drips into

the water, where it can't get over 220 degrees or so. Also, I

don't like all that aerosolized fat getting into the house -- I was

over at someone's house when the roasted a chicken and the

air was full of roasted rancid-smelling fat. Yecch. In a water smoker,

most of the heat is in the form of steam, I believe, which is

kind of like the traditional method of burying the meat in the dirt,

wrapped in leaves, under a hot fire. (A method I'm also

considering trying!). Have you ever tried a traditional

" luau " pig?

>

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>Thanks so much for the info. It sounds great. I have done some research

>on the internet and have a few questions. Some say the small ones are

>hard to keep a high enough heat and the vent systems aren't adequate. Do

>you have a problem with this? Also, is yours gas or electric? If you

>were to buy another one, would you get a different type?

Well, I'm really brain dead about bbq. I bought the cheapest on the market,

and I start the propane going, add some alder sticks (about 1 " diameter)

and a pan of water, and stick some meat on the grill, and come back in an

hour or so. The temp varies -- the propane lines got clogged somehow and

everything took a long time to cook. Then I tried on lower heat and it

really didn't make much difference. Our current one is gas -- the previous

one was electric, but it started drawing too much current. I think leaving

it out in the Seattle rain is not a good idea. But our house current has

strange wiring, so we did not discover what the problem was. We like

propane though because our electricity goes out every so often, and it is

nice having an easy backup.

I have not seen a better brand, though I've looked. Stainless steel would

be better -- they rust out eventually. For the price though, I'm not

complaining.

> I take it you can use charcoal or wood briquettes in yours also, if

> you want to. Would you use the briquettes along with the water for a

> more charbroiled flavor? And lastly, one column said you can water

> smoke it and then brown the outside, but didn't say how. Do you know how

> to do this?

>Oh, one last thing. Why do you brine the meat and how do you do this?

I don't use briquettes -- last time I tried they made me sick (physically,

I threw up). Might be because they have wheat in them -- or chemicals. My

hubby didn't like it either. The memories of good charcoal flavor are

there, but our bodies don't like it!

If there is a lot of water in the pan, the meat doesn't brown much. You can

let the water evaporate and then the meat browns (when this happens it is

usually by accident! once we forgot a salmon for 2 hours while we were in

the hot tub drinking too much wine. The salmon was great though, albeit

browned). The other way is to bring it in the house, stick it in the oven

on high (450) for a few minutes. If you brush on a coating with some sugar

(teriyaki sauce, for instance) then you REALLY get a nice carmelized

coating, but I don't bother, it is good enough with the smoke flavor.

Brining meat changes the protein structure, so it holds more moisture. THAT

is a whole big chapter in itself. If you want a good chicken though, soak

it for a few hours in a gallon of water with a cup of salt (or half salt,

half sugar). There are whole books about this -- but really, it is worth

learning. Me, I'm lazy, so I tend to just freeze chicken or fish in salt

water, so when it thaws out it also brines (keeps it from getting freezer

burn too). I just toss some salt in a bag with some water, add chicken or

fish, and seal. So the meat is encased in a block of salty ice. The salt

also prevents bacterial build-up, I believe.

>

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...>

<major snippage>

.. In a water smoker, > most of the heat is in the form of steam,

I am of the understanding that the main purpose for the water

in a smoker is to act as a heat sink and help regulate the temp.

The meat does not actually " absorb " any of the steam. While

cooking the meat exudes juices and can not absorb them. I very

well could be wrong, but that is my interpertation of what I have

learned over the years of being involved with BBQ.

I believe, which is

> kind of like the traditional method of burying the meat in the dirt,

> wrapped in leaves, under a hot fire. (A method I'm also

> considering trying!). Have you ever tried a traditional

> " luau " pig?

> Heidi S

We have cooked underground on various occasions. Burnt A LOT

of hard wood to coals (about 3' deep of coals in a 5 " pit) them

wrapped the meat in cloth and saturated the cloth, then wrapped in

NON galvanized wire (used as a hook to get the meat in the pit)

covered and packed dirt around so we could see no smoke. Opened

the next day and munched. )

(short version) I believe a luau pig will have hot rocks put inside

then covered in banana leaves and covered in sand. Hot coals will

be under the pig.

[Guest guest]

At 07:56 PM 4/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:

> I am of the understanding that the main purpose for the water

>in a smoker is to act as a heat sink and help regulate the temp.

>The meat does not actually " absorb " any of the steam. While

>cooking the meat exudes juices and can not absorb them. I very

>well could be wrong, but that is my interpertation of what I have

>learned over the years of being involved with BBQ.

I don't think it absorbs the steam, but the steam seems to keep it from

drying out.

Basically what you get is some juicy, smoky meat. But it doesn't brown much.

>

>We have cooked underground on various occasions. Burnt A LOT

>of hard wood to coals (about 3' deep of coals in a 5 " pit) them

>wrapped the meat in cloth and saturated the cloth, then wrapped in

>NON galvanized wire (used as a hook to get the meat in the pit)

>covered and packed dirt around so we could see no smoke. Opened

>the next day and munched. )

>

>(short version) I believe a luau pig will have hot rocks put inside

>then covered in banana leaves and covered in sand. Hot coals will

>be under the pig.

Sounds yummy! But in that version, doesn't the moisture from the leaves and

dirt

keep the meat from drying out? (Plus the fact the moisture can't escape). I

haven't

tried it but it sounds like a similar principle -- keep the meat moist.

When you cook

meat over an open flame it really dries out a lot. And is easy to burn.

>

Heidi S